DUST Search - [Suggestion] Kill to Death Ratio Rework. (That guy with the Needle)

Fox Gaden wrote:

I am not sure if this was the post that you saw, but it is one of the posts where I explain how I think kills/deaths should be handled.

Fox Gaden wrote:

Kills/Deaths:
Dropping an enemy should count as an Incapacitation (+25 WP). If that clone bleeds out, or someone shoots the unconscious body so that the clone is lost, then it should count as a death and the person who Incapacitated the clone should get another (+25 WP) for the kill and have the kill added to their stats. (Not the guy that shot the unconscious body.) Similarly, the incapacitated player should only have a death added to their stats if the clone is lost. (This would greatly alter the way we look at Nanite Injectors.)

I think a GÇ£KillGÇ¥ should only count if the clone is terminated as well, so no imbalance in the global K/D. This is why I have introduced the term GÇ£IncapacitateGÇ¥ in my suggestion. If you want to make sure you get the GÇ£KillGÇ¥ you can shoot the incapacitated clone to finish it off. (Clones have health just like Shields and Armor, there just isnGÇÖt a bar for it.)

I donGÇÖt think there is any need to limit the number of times you can be revived, as long as only Clone loss results in a kill.

If the clone is revivable it will be laying there. If it is not revivable it will be burning up. At least if that is how it works now.


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Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.05.24 04:44:00 - [1] - Quote A way to make "That guy with the needle" someone we're glad to have, and make FW torture less excruciating. I would like to start by saying that this post is built on ideas inspired by posts that other people have done. Fox Gaden is the only one that I can think of right now so if you see something you already posted feel free to swoop in and take credit. Now I know, that a lot of people are going to say "You're immortal. Who cares how many times you die?" I do, for one, and so do a lot of the top Corps. It's partly a point of personal pride, partly a statement of how good you are. Ok, now that that's out of the way, lets get to it. 1. kills should be gained same as now. You put him down, you get a kill. You get 25 war points right away, if/when he bleeds out (or you shoot until he is beyond repair), you get your other 25 war points. A head shot kill would continue to give 60 War points. 2. Deaths should only be added when your clone is terminated. If "That guy with the needle" comes and sticks you right in front of the meta 10 HMG (not proto anymore) that just killed you, you don't stand to loose anything from his poor decision making skills. And about him, 3. "That guy with the needle" SHOULD NOT be rewarded for running out and sticking a guy only to have him get put back down a nano second later. Give him 10 war points for putting him on his feet and give him the other 50 IF The guy stays alive for 10 seconds (could be longer or shorter). 4. Each clone should only be able to be picked up with a nano injector once or twice. 5. You should have a toggle in the options menu to choose whether any person on your team can stick you (without you requesting help first) or just squadmates, or if you don't want anyone to be able to pick you up without permission. Extra information/ideas. To help identify if a clone is dead, when someone is incapacitated, but their clone has not been terminated, they would have an 'X' over him, blue for a friend, red for a foe. The 'X' could switch to the current injector icon when he calls for help. In the battle review panel, getting incapacitated without dying could be represented by a purple dot on the graph. It would not reduce your K/D, that would only happen when you bleed out. Some PROs, 1. It would encourage people to be more helpful with their needle. 2. Make it so that FW torturers (or their inevitable equivalent in Legion) can't do as much damage. 3. Corps could train new members without leaving an almost incurable stain on their record. 4. Reward players for having good shooting. 5. It would be easier to maintain a positive kill to death ratio. Some CONs, 1. Could be abused if not implemented well. 2. Would create an imbalance in the global PvP K/D (not really a con though in my opinion...) 3. Warbarge Strike commendations might take a bit longer to get, in ambush for example. 4. Might be harder to implement multiple stage war point acquisition (I'm not a coder or programmer so I don't know if what I am suggesting is even possible). 5. See #5 in PROs above... Suggestions, criticisms, and modifications are welcome. A Blue Flag would be fantastic.
Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 12	Posted - 2014.05.24 23:19:00 - [2] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I am not sure if this was the post that you saw, but it is one of the posts where I explain how I think kills/deaths should be handled. Fox Gaden wrote: Kills/Deaths: Dropping an enemy should count as an Incapacitation (+25 WP). If that clone bleeds out, or someone shoots the unconscious body so that the clone is lost, then it should count as a death and the person who Incapacitated the clone should get another (+25 WP) for the kill and have the kill added to their stats. (Not the guy that shot the unconscious body.) Similarly, the incapacitated player should only have a death added to their stats if the clone is lost. (This would greatly alter the way we look at Nanite Injectors.) I think a GÇ£KillGÇ¥ should only count if the clone is terminated as well, so no imbalance in the global K/D. This is why I have introduced the term GÇ£IncapacitateGÇ¥ in my suggestion. If you want to make sure you get the GÇ£KillGÇ¥ you can shoot the incapacitated clone to finish it off. (Clones have health just like Shields and Armor, there just isnGÇÖt a bar for it.) I donGÇÖt think there is any need to limit the number of times you can be revived, as long as only Clone loss results in a kill. If the clone is revivable it will be laying there. If it is not revivable it will be burning up. At least if that is how it works now. Good point, but if done that way, I think that you should have incapacitations/ number of people you have incapacitated added to your K/D. It would be helpful to know how many kills you missed, as well as how many you got. P.S. what thread is that quote from?
Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 15	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:00:00 - [3] - Quote Yes, what Fox said. If you Incapacitate someone you get all 50 war points (if they are not picked up).
Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:04:00 - [4] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Bragoltur Valaruina wrote: 3. "That guy with the needle" SHOULD NOT be rewarded for running out and sticking a guy only to have him get put back down a nano second later. Give him 10 war points for putting him on his feet and give him the other 50 IF The guy stays alive for 10 seconds (could be longer or shorter). Dunno about this one. Allow me to put a different spin on it: "Ugh! I killed the two guys that killed this stupid blueberry and raised him. The idiot sat there for two seconds and than ran out into enemy fire so I only got 10 WP!" There is something in that. But I think that it makes the risk/reward more dynamic for people who use nano injectors. Perhaps it could be so that if they reach full armor, so that, but I would not be in favor of that because I could easily see people who wouldn't bother rezzing Gal Sentinels, for the reason of not getting their war points. Joseph Ridgeson wrote: ...So I disagree heavily on 1, am leaning against 3, am leaning towards 2, and agree with 4 and 5. I can see how #1 is not so good. I'm glad that you like some of my other ideas though. Thanks for the feedback guys. P.S. Does anyone know how to get a Dev to reply to a thread?
Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.05.27 04:10:00 - [5] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Shadowswipe wrote: KDR should just be removed. Only thing that should be tracked is isk lost vs isked you caused to be lost. People don't care if you die 100 times when getting a job done. The contractor just cares that you get the job done for a good price. If I was looking to fund a war, I know that many times it comes down to money and/or raw materials. I would hire the corp that can win me a planet for under 1 billion isk, even if they use three times the number of clones another corp would use that charged 2 billion. As for the guy with the needle, whelp you get the isk value of what you saved and the revived guy still get credited for losing that gear. Under the assumption that he was gonna bleed out. If he dies again, then you lose what you would have gained from the revive. Random idea caused by your post: what if the ISK you earned was based on the difference between what you killed directly and what you lost, with a mimimum pay out for all players of say 100k ISK? I kind of like this idea... Interesting idea, do you have an example so I can see how it would work?
Bragoltur Valaruina Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 16	Posted - 2014.05.28 05:39:00 - [6] - Quote Cyrus Militani wrote: A logi should continue to get full immediate credit for a revival. I have revived people in the past only for them to stand there and get shot simply because they were not paying attention to the fact that they were revived. I still put my neck out there to revive them, risking my own death. And I'm careful and run with proto nanite injectors, so the person being revived has no excuse to stand there and not run for cover. I do, however, want to discourage "injector farming" where a corp will be on both sides and kill and revive a stray clone over and over again. A simple solution for that is don't award WP (to logi or killer) or count a kill/death for a clone that was incapacitated and revived within 2-3 seconds after the first time. I don't think I have been rezzed by a proto needle more than once in every twenty times someone has picked me up. Usually it's wacko medic starter fits going for cheep war points. You're probably thinking, "That guy must never squad." And that's the truth, I wish I could squad more when I play, but I can't seem to find a group that is competitive to be fun but casual enough to be fine with my standard/advanced fits. So yeah, I am frustrated with blueberries who are willing to run out and get me an extra death, just so they can get 60 (free, because starter fits cost nothing,) war points. OK, new thought. Make the meta level of the needle and the fit you picked up be war point modifiers. Meta 1-2 give 5 war points, meta 3-4 give 10 war points, meta 5-6 give 15 war points, meta 7-8 give 20 war points, and meta 9-10 give 30 war points. So for example meta level of your needle = 1 + meta level of the fit you picked up =3 = war points awarded. = 15 meta level of your needle = 7 + meta level of the fit you picked up =10 = war points awarded. = 50 ^right off the top of my head... It would reward carrying a better nano injector, and sticking your neck out for your proto buddy gives you full rewards even if he can't get away. Downside is, it could deter new players from going into that branch of logistics, because it would maybe feel like more trouble than it's worth.