Nice idea if you want to remove armour tanking from the game. To repeat for the thousandth time, the massive drawbacks of armour tanking (speed reduction plus no regen) mean that there has to be a significant hp gap or armour will be redundant. Ccp already tried the 'derp lets give shield almost as much hp as armour as well as far higher speed and rapid regen' a year ago, it was stupid then and it would be stupid now.

@driftward

So because ferroscale is already terrible we should make it even less competitive (relative to shield)? You must work for ccp with 'balancing' ideas like that.

What makes you think ferroscales are just going to sit as they are?

Rattati directly talked about how they (and reactives) needed help badly. All of my thought experiments were based on the assumption that ferroscale plates would get a buff (either by direct hp or indirect lowering of fitting). Your responses make it clear that rather than coming up with ideas for balancing you are heavily tied to one piece of equipment and balancing around it rather than globally. It's how we got the current armor situation which is by no means balanced. The only buffer mods we see used consistently are basic/enhanced plates and complex shield extenders. I want to see a more diversified field that includes rechargers, energizers, armor reppers, ferroscales and everything else as a viable option.

No need to get all butthurt and make it personal.

my issue isnt with the extenders (except for enhanced extenders, those should be 44 hp)

the cpu cost of energizers, rechargers, and complex regulators are crazy high. you have to use a low slot cpu mod to run two complex rechargers with anything else

I don't disagree with the idea of more diversity. But if that's your goal, why buff complex shield extenders when, as you admit, they're already extremely widely used?

I suspect plain ol' shield tanker butthurt, show me otherwise.

I'll try and make it clear then, my point is that pure shield tanking is not viable (see Oswald Rehnquist's post).

Complex shield extenders probably get used frequently because they are one of the only high slot modules that is worth a damn (now that damage mods are less useful) not necessarily that they are great individually. Complex shield extenders should be in the same category of use as complex plates (i actually think those are moderately well balanced between high buffer and high movement penalty) and as such if hp is increased then the shield depleted delay penalty could be considered for an increase too (15%+?). Regardless, the major point I want to make is this: We can't make a decent spread/range of shield extenders from basic to complex and have them all occupy a separate niche of use without expanding that range, at least a little.

Would you consider using a basic shield extender if it gave 33 hp like you suggested? That is less than one bullet of just about any weapon. Stack three of them and you barely get more than a single basic plate. I think that a basic shield extender giving somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 hp would be more realistic. At least then you have ~half the functionality of a basic plate. Enhanced extender of maybe 55-60 and complex of max 80-85. That way there is a clear distinction between tiers of module and a reasonable lower limit. Stacking penalties should be extremely severe (as has been discussed in the armor rebalancing thread) such that modules of the same tier should have significantly reduced effectiveness.

With a complex shield extender maxing out at 80-85 that keeps shields well below the buffer potential of armor. Ferroscale plates could max out around 100 hp at complex and enhanced level around 80-85 (approximately 1 tier above shield and 1 tier below regular plates) with fitting costs split between shield extender and reg plates (ie higher cpu than plates, lower than shields and ~ same pg 11-12)

The changes I'm proposing would only work, and balance, IF and only IF something significant is done to reduce the benefits of stacking buffer modules to the exclusion of all else. (significant stacking penalties and increased bonuses to auxiliary buffer mods (energizer, repper, etc.) If stacking isn't modified then changing hp amounts will only exacerbate the current balance situation. I'm hopeful, based on the development discussion in the armor balance threads, that something will be done to rectify the situation somewhat in which case there might be some further things, such as what I'm suggesting, that could diversify the fitting meta.

80-85 for complex extender and 100 for complex ferroscale doesn't sound unreasonable. That would fairly reflect the high fitting costs compared to regular armour plates, I think. Seems like we can get along after all

what if shields recharged constantly without the delay, like armor does?

shield tanks would have low over all hp but their high recharge rates help them survive drawn out battles, but weak in fights where there's no cover.

armor tanks would have high hp but suffer being worn down in drawn out fights.

Yes, we want to look at comparative scaling of ehp/tank modules, whether armor or shield. It is fairly obvious that plate hp/pg is high and we need to make shield extenders competitive

i consider shields a first line of defense. and consider armor the last line of defense.

wouldnt it always be better to have the strongest for last?.

though its possible to reach passive tank/ rep levels of shield recharge rates for armor.

the player doing so essentially sacrifices all slots and possibly several others just to obtain that rep rate for armor.

wheres as shield gets it right off at the start but does start out with less hp in the beginning. but is also faster than armor in alot of cases. so shield tankers can reach locations first before armor tankers. retreat for a few seconds just for shields to recharge then head right back into attacking a position. i dont think they need the ability to out brawl armor in every slugging fest. as they have a faster overall regain during engagements unlike armor. which can really only stand up to hard hitting stuff. depending on the scenario.

Your way of comparison is extremely broken.

Yes there are problems with armor and shields, but compare them this way and you will end up with a much more broken game.

i consider shields a first line of defense. and consider armor the last line of defense.

wouldnt it always be better to have the strongest for last?.

though its possible to reach passive tank/ rep levels of shield recharge rates for armor.

the player doing so essentially sacrifices all slots and possibly several others just to obtain that rep rate for armor.

wheres as shield gets it right off at the start but does start out with less hp in the beginning. but is also faster than armor in alot of cases. so shield tankers can reach locations first before armor tankers. retreat for a few seconds just for shields to recharge then head right back into attacking a position. i dont think they need the ability to out brawl armor in every slugging fest. as they have a faster overall regain during engagements unlike armor. which can really only stand up to hard hitting stuff. depending on the scenario.