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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
133
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't understand why so many are crying about cloaks.
THEY ARE PERFECT!
I have lost count of the number of "invisible" scouts that I have put down (at least three with a sniper rifle).
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
If he is behind me, then he didn't need the cloak.
If the scout is in front of me and I didn't see it, shame on ME.
Many complain cloaks allow a first shot while invisible. Well yeah, what else is it for?
There is a trade off many don't realize; if you see the cloaked scout then YOU get the first shot because the scout has to take the second to switch to a weapon which may be all the time you need or at least it will give you the head start in that 1v1 battle. If the scout still gets you after that, well that is a good player who would ave gotten you anyway.
...or he's tanked.
AKA - StarVenger
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Cavani1EE7
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
20
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem.
1337
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
133
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem. Yes. And that is a whole different ball of wax.
AKA - StarVenger
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OliX PRZESMIEWCA
Bezimienni...
94
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
First shoot when cloaked is a bug. That 1-2 bullets more make a difference...
Everything else is fine.
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
134
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:First shoot when cloaked is a bug.
Well, If CCP says it isn't meant to be then I can't argue with that. But if they left it alone I won't cry.
AKA - StarVenger
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Cavani1EE7
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
21
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:First shoot when cloaked is a bug. That 1-2 bullets more make a difference...
Everything else is fine.
Yeah, especially when those 1-2 bullets come from a SG.
1337
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
8652
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
That's a fallacy.
CPM Game
Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :)
-HAND
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
145
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Posted - 2014.05.17 19:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
Many complain cloaks allow a first shot while invisible. Well yeah, what else is it for?
Its supposed to be a reconnaissance tool, not a combat enhancement. Its optimized for scouts, not assaults. Right now its used as an assassin tool. Its used to make a armored, proto CR carrying slayer appear behind you after getting the first few shots. It should be more balanced in the sense that if you fit a cloak you cant fit anything else besides a primary gun and a scanner/uplink/nanohive.
You guys can say what you want. Maybe on your 32in 1080P HDTV you can see a scout from 450m away, but most cant. It makes the game pretty pointless if you can just have near unlimited invisibility and just appear places after firing 2 shotgun blasts into someones back.
But I digress. I wont complain too much. I believe in "equal opportunities", including for those who are severely handicapped at playing the game or have another major deficiency. If they need this big of a high chair to be able to sit at my level, then alright. |
Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
449
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Posted - 2014.05.17 20:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
LAVALLOIS Nash wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
Many complain cloaks allow a first shot while invisible. Well yeah, what else is it for?
Its supposed to be a reconnaissance tool, not a combat enhancement. Its optimized for scouts, not assaults. Right now its used as an assassin tool. Its used to make a armored, proto CR carrying slayer appear behind you after getting the first few shots. It should be more balanced in the sense that if you fit a cloak you cant fit anything else besides a primary gun and a scanner/uplink/nanohive. You guys can say what you want. Maybe on your 32in 1080P HDTV you can see a scout from 450m away, but most cant. It makes the game pretty pointless if you can just have near unlimited invisibility and just appear places after firing 2 shotgun blasts into someones back. But I digress. I wont complain too much. I believe in "equal opportunities", including for those who are severely handicapped at playing the game or have another major deficiency. If they need this big of a high chair to be able to sit at my level, then alright.
*Sighs* I was with ya on the first part... why'd you have to let me down? My 19" HDTV lets me see scouts fine, and my vision is actually pretty bad if I'm not wearing glasses (Think 480p compared to 720p... my eyesight is the first...) A lot of people like cloaks not because it makes playing a scout easier, but because it's simply fun. Dust doesn't exactly have the best available when it comes to infantry gameplay, shooting or otherwise, and for myself (and I'm sure quite a few others) the cloak isn't a balancing item, it's a way to add entertainment to the game while allowing for more options on a scout's part. Before the cloak, the scouts were viable on four maps, two of which were only the case if the battle was taking place in the city. Dust, being devoid of cover as it is in most environments, was a poor playing field for scouts running around with 300ehp, meaning most games, those who specialized in scouts had to pick another suit or be at a huge disadvantage. That's no longer the case with the cloaks, flanking is possible and ambushes are viable no matter the map as long as the person in question has the patience to take things slowly.
Nova Knives are magic~
Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column
And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
148
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Posted - 2014.05.17 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:
*Sighs* I was with ya on the first part... why'd you have to let me down? My 19" HDTV lets me see scouts fine, and my vision is actually pretty bad if I'm not wearing glasses (Think 480p compared to 720p... my eyesight is the first...) A lot of people like cloaks not because it makes playing a scout easier, but because it's simply fun. Dust doesn't exactly have the best available when it comes to infantry gameplay, shooting or otherwise, and for myself (and I'm sure quite a few others) the cloak isn't a balancing item, it's a way to add entertainment to the game while allowing for more options on a scout's part. Before the cloak, the scouts were viable on four maps, two of which were only the case if the battle was taking place in the city. Dust, being devoid of cover as it is in most environments, was a poor playing field for scouts running around with 300ehp, meaning most games, those who specialized in scouts had to pick another suit or be at a huge disadvantage. That's no longer the case with the cloaks, flanking is possible and ambushes are viable no matter the map as long as the person in question has the patience to take things slowly.
Well for me, I dont have that much trouble seeing them if I can predict what they will do next. Most of the not so great ones always do a predictable long arc to try and get behind me. My TV isnt great, so I have to rely on my crosshair turning orange. On some backgrounds, like pavement, they are very visible.
Dont get me wrong though, I dont want them nerfed out of the game. The other day I was playing a Dom on that map with the underground supply depot, (we were camping it), and a scout snuck in and blew himself and us all up with remote mines. I wouldnt want to take that out of the game. When i die like that, I laugh a little on the inside.
Now you got people who use scouts in CQC fights that have tons of armor and flick the cloak on and off. I just dont think that was its intended use. It should be a tradeoff. Having alot of one should prevent you from having alot of the other. |
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Atiim
Heaven's Lost Property
8657
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Posted - 2014.05.17 21:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:
*Sighs* I was with ya on the first part... why'd you have to let me down? My 19" HDTV lets me see scouts fine.
[...]
Yet another fallacy.
CPM Game
Join HvLP For Good Fights & Anime :)
-HAND
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
136
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Posted - 2014.05.17 21:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
That's a fallacy. How so? In my experience it is true.
I'm not claiming to be cloak proof, I don't always beat them, but if they are in front of me I most always see them. I'll even stalk them if I am fast enough. There are times when I realize what I just saw was a cloaked merc, but just a bit too late. Those are the smart ones. Or I will blatantly not notice at all, and they get behind me and I hear their shotgun announce my death. But mostly they are just as obvious as any other suit.
AKA - StarVenger
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
744
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Posted - 2014.05.17 21:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
This statement is flawed. Judge Rabadabalus calls it the "toupee fallacy" (google it).
Also, fire-from-cloak should be fixed. It is a problem. |
Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
137
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 21:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:This statement is flawed. Judge Rabadabalus calls it the "toupee fallacy" (google it).
That argument does not apply here. Toupees don't shimmer with blue light.
Cloaked mercs shimmer with blue light. Nine times out of ten I will see that shimmery blue merc.
AKA - StarVenger
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
745
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Posted - 2014.05.17 21:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:This statement is flawed. Judge Rabadabalus calls it the "toupee fallacy" (google it).
That argument does not apply here. Toupees don't shimmer with blue light. Cloaked mercs shimmer with blue light. Nine times out of ten I will see that shimmery blue merc.
LOL |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9782
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 21:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
A cloaked user has the first mover advantage.
Before the enemy knows what hit them, they already have 200+ damage dealt to them.
That's extremely stupid.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
9782
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 21:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:This statement is flawed. Judge Rabadabalus calls it the "toupee fallacy" (google it).
That argument does not apply here. Toupees don't shimmer with blue light. Cloaked mercs shimmer with blue light. Nine times out of ten I will see that shimmery blue merc.
If you don't spot the cloak, then you can't know it was there.
The blue shimmer has varying degrees of visibility depending on the map, and on some maps they can dance right infront of you and you won't notice I thing.
I know, I do it all the time in my scout. 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
137
|
Posted - 2014.05.17 22:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I know, I do it all the time in my scout. And.......you would be the one in ten that ganks me
AKA - StarVenger
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2220
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
An uncloaked, well tanked scout isn't that much of a problem (as much as it steps on the toes of the assault suits).
A lightly tanked scout suit that uses the cloak to get into a flanking position isn't a problem.
The problem is that you can be both well tanked and invisible, decloaking away from cover and being able to survive the retaliation by the victim's teammates.
A delay on being able to fire when decloaking would fix this, since you would no longer be able to drop cloak in a suicidal position and get away with it by OHKing anyone who would be a threat. You could still cause havoc by using the cloak to get close, stepping behind something and then decloaking. Your low scan profile would mean you still have the element of surprise, but you'd have to close that short distance and risk someone getting a mark 1 eyeball on you.
The other thing I would do is make the cloak lose some charge when you decloak. I play a gallente scout now. It's cheesy as hell. With an advanced cloak I drop cloak, kill someone, recloak, kill someone, recloak, move to a sheltered spot and recharge the cloak and then keep going. Running out of cloak time is something that simply doesn't happen, and it's meant to. There's just no reason to use the proto version.
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Tectonic Fusion
1667
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:First shoot when cloaked is a bug. That 1-2 bullets more make a difference...
Everything else is fine.
Yeah, especially when those 1-2 bullets come from a SG.
I don't get why you think 2 come from a SG. The first one you can see my shimmer, and the second one is uncloaked...
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danie braz
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2014.05.17 23:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem.
Precision enhancers. Ill see you first. |
Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
450
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Crimson ShieId wrote:
*Sighs* I was with ya on the first part... why'd you have to let me down? My 19" HDTV lets me see scouts fine.
[...]
Yet another fallacy.
How is it a fallacy? I made a statement about myself, not everyone else. The results I have on a 19" HDTV are usually good, in spite of my eyesight being crap. 
Nova Knives are magic~
Inserts knife into nearest merc's spinal column
And now, so are you! Bask in the magics!
|
OliX PRZESMIEWCA
Bezimienni...
96
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 02:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tectonic Fusion wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:OliX PRZESMIEWCA wrote:First shoot when cloaked is a bug. That 1-2 bullets more make a difference...
Everything else is fine.
Yeah, especially when those 1-2 bullets come from a SG. I don't get why you think 2 come from a SG. The first one you can see my shimmer, and the second one is uncloaked...
First one goes with cloak, second one goes together with decloak or right just after it.
Usually when they left with less than 50hp I blame this "decloaking" bug or my s hit ty low life templar suit.
Thing is if I had that 1sec more, the glory should be mine. One SG shoot take same time as few bullets from any rifle.
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MINA Longstrike
769
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I know, I do it all the time in my scout. And....... you would be the one in ten that ganks me
I don't think you understand what a logical fallacy like the toupee fallacy is.
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Toupee_fallacy
The toupee fallacy in this case postulates that you've never 'seen' a cloaked scout that you didn't see the blue shimmer on. This is fallacious because there are plenty of scouts that given fairly regular circumstances you wouldn't have seen *at all*, therefore your statement of "I've never seen a scout that I didn't see" is wrong.
It has been demonstrated that scouts in numerous situations literally have *no* shimmer.
Sadly with no actual model changes or the like scouts will end up retaining the first mover advantage until dust is dead.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
142
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 04:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:I don't think you understand what a logical fallacy like the toupee fallacy is..
That would be a fallacy.
AKA - StarVenger
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MINA Longstrike
769
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Posted - 2014.05.18 04:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:I don't think you understand what a logical fallacy like the toupee fallacy is.. That would be a fallacy.
No, that's a mildly condescending statement based on what I've observed in this thread. If you can point out the error in my reasoning I'd be happy to discuss it further. Or you could try to address my arguments rather than merely responding to tone.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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m twiggz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
624
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Posted - 2014.05.18 05:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
You posting a thread about how cloaks aren't OP will just make more people post about how OP cloaks are. You must be new around here. Logic and the Dust community don't mix very well. |
Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
143
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 08:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
@MINA Longstrike
Um...humor in irony?
Next time I will append my humor with a smiley so as to blunt any perceived condescension.
Yet perhaps my unintended tone of condescension, which you have taken affront to, was subliminally motivated from what I myself may have perceived from your post as condescending in tone towards me. (Hmm..more irony).
I'm an intelligent guy. "Toupee fallacy" in the context of this thread is pretty self explanatory even if I hadn't know already what it meant. To assume I didn't comprehend this simple concept based on anecdotal evidence just might come across to me as insulting. And then you may have compounded this slight by launching into a lesson on the subject, complete with links, as one might reprimand a student for shirking his studies. Now you have assumed upon yourself a position as my intellectual superior, something sure to get my ire up. But whats worse, you seemingly presume my Google-fu is weak!
Had you prefaced your lesson with the phrase "Just to be sure...", I'm certain no offense would have been taken, subliminally or otherwise.
As to the "error in your reasoning" (Your words, not mine. I don't want to insult) if you must have it;
MINA Longstrike wrote:The toupee fallacy in this case postulates that you've never 'seen' a cloaked scout that you didn't see the blue shimmer on. I'm not sure it actually does the way you have it here. But it matters not as I did state "nine out of ten" which allows for those cloaked mercs with their blue shimmer in effect that I did not see.
Quote: therefore your statement of "I've never seen a scout that I didn't see" is wrong. This is where this "Toupee fallacy" definitely applies.
As it pertains to me, however, this statement would only be true if I had, in fact, made that claim.
I haven't.
What I am claiming, clearly stated now that I am pressed, is that I see nine out of ten shimmering blue cloaked scouts if they are within my line of sight. Granted, this may be a bold statement but this is merely an online forum and I'm trying to stress a point. However, if you must take me to task on this I'm willing to amend my claim. I'll say eight out of ten.
And to be perfectly clear while clarity is an issue, before any further confusion ensues; I'm not claiming the title "slayer of cloaks."
I am only saying I am a "seer of cloaks" and wonder why, if everybody else is as well, do so many believe cloaks overpowered. To this I've received some compelling arguments.
Quote:It has been demonstrated that scouts in numerous situations literally have *no* shimmer.
Lies! LIES! Why must you fill people's heads with such LIES!!!!
AKA - StarVenger
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5555
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Posted - 2014.05.18 10:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
The fallacy argument is that if you don't see someone, you won't KNOW you didn't see them.
It relies very heavily on the phenomenon you didn't see being passive.
FPS players aren't passive. If you fail to see a cloaked player, you will very promptly be shot by that player.
I can comfortably argue that 9 times out of 10, when a cloaked player starts shooting and was in front of me, I saw them before the decloaking animation began. I can also point out that for those 10 times, there were MORE than 10 times where I saw a cloaked player and they were killed - either by me or another player - before they had a chance to open fire. There were also a handful of times I saw a cloaked player, but didn't have anything I could do before I lost sight of them due to factors OTHER than cloak (distance/terrain).
Fallacy doesn't apply to my above statement, AND that proves the same thing people were claiming which can be pointed out as a fallacy.
I'm willing to admit there are bugs which can occasionally prevent a moving player from being as visible as they should be at certain ranges, but for the most part, cloaked players ARE visible. |
Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
59
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Posted - 2014.05.18 10:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yes he needed the cloak.
The only scout that doesn't need the cloak is Gallente, and it still helps because you don't know where the other 15 people on the enemy team are besides the one you're sneaking around.
And if you're having trouble with brick tanked scouts, bring my Gal Logi in your squad. I'll light em right up.
GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé
IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê]
GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
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Glyd Path
Nec Tributis
48
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Posted - 2014.05.18 11:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Are too.
Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
163
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Posted - 2014.05.18 12:48:00 -
[32] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:I don't understand why so many are crying about cloaks.
THEY ARE PERFECT!
I have lost count of the number of "invisible" scouts that I have put down (at least three with a sniper rifle).
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
If he is behind me, then he didn't need the cloak.
If the scout is in front of me and I didn't see it, shame on ME.
Many complain cloaks allow a first shot while invisible. Well yeah, what else is it for?
There is a trade off many don't realize; if you see the cloaked scout then YOU get the first shot because the scout has to take the second to switch to a weapon which may be all the time you need or, at least, it will give you the head start in that 1v1 battle. If the scout still gets you after that, well that is a good player who would have gotten you anyway.
...or he's tanked.
Noooo.... not OP at all! I can't believe that people are actually upset about me being able to stand still for a minute and a half in a corner without being seen and OHKing them in the back with a shotty! How is anyone upset that my cloak remains active until I get my second shotty shot off? What is wrong with you fools who think that 10 neigh invisible fully tanked suits hiding in every corner is a problem?!?! Gosh people, get over yourselves, it's not like the terrible frame rate and lag in this game makes it THAT much harder to see us when we're cloaked....
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3258
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem.
Yes.
Assaults should get a ehp buff btw.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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axINVICTUSxa
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
121
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 15:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hell man, Cloaks are OP as hell!
Let me tell you why. This is what my main dropsuit fitting looks like:
Assault - Spectre 17k:
Gallente Assault G-1 (STD)
Basic Light Damage Mod (STD)
Exile/Dren Rifle (STD)
Locus Grenades (STD)
Cloak Field (STD)
Enhanced Armor Plating x3
Total Ehp: around 700
Armor Rep: 2 per second
And I kick ass with this. Very seriously, and I feel like a bad ass. My ratio with this suit is around 4:1 KDR, and I target heavies...because apparently I can solo Heavies now, but not damn logis with rail rifles. doesn't make an ounce of sense to me but hell, wtf.
Or you can logi, which nets you 2000 WP a game +, even with basic tools.
I wallow in pools of blood and wash myself anew, I throw away my ugly self in order to become something beautiful...
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axINVICTUSxa
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
121
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem. Yes. Assaults should get a ehp buff btw.
Lol look at my post.
I can run cloak and still have 700 ehp on my assault.
I run gallente for a number of reasons:
1) I am Gallente
2) Gallente Assault allows you to armor tank (STD Gallente Assault has 3 low slots) better plus automatic 2 rep per second
3) Exile/Dren are assault rifle BPO's that I have; Gallente Assault gets a bonus for hybrid weaponry.
4)It's pretty cheap actually.
Damn, if they only made BPO's for Gallente G-1's I'd be in heaven. Something I might spend a $100 getting, provided it comes with AUR and other stuff
I wallow in pools of blood and wash myself anew, I throw away my ugly self in order to become something beautiful...
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
146
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote: This is what my main dropsuit fitting looks like:
 WANT!!!!!
AKA - StarVenger
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
67
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:45:00 -
[37] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:And I kick ass with this. Very seriously, and I feel like a bad ass. My ratio with this suit is around 4:1 KDR, and I target heavies...because apparently I can solo Heavies now, but not damn logis with rail rifles. doesn't make an ounce of sense to me but hell, wtf.
You better hope that heavy isn't me.
And I totally forgot Logis can even fit cloaks. I was so busy specing into Gal Logi for the first time with all that event SP, I only thought about the REAL equipment.
I guess I could do a stealth scanner with a needle. Damn... it'd actually be pretty useful on an uplink spam suit. Thanks for reminding me!
inb4CCPfixeslogifittingbonustocloak
GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé
IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê]
GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Lokun Listamenn
3258
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Posted - 2014.05.18 15:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem. Yes. Assaults should get a ehp buff btw. Lol look at my post. I can run cloak and still have 700 ehp on my assault. I run gallente for a number of reasons: 1) I am Gallente 2) Gallente Assault allows you to armor tank (STD Gallente Assault has 3 low slots) better plus automatic 2 rep per second 3) Exile/Dren are assault rifle BPO's that I have; Gallente Assault gets a bonus for hybrid weaponry. 4)It's pretty cheap actually. Damn, if they only made BPO's for Gallente G-1's I'd be in heaven. Something I might spend a $100 getting, provided it comes with AUR and other stuff
Can you scan and not be scanned?
Can you run quickly and for a long time?
Do you have 3 reps per sec?(only applies to Gallente)
Do you shields recharge quickly?
Can you run extra equipment?
Do you have a large hitbox?
Look, I run Gallente Scout/Assault/Heavy/Commando/Logi, and I can tell you the assault is the worst of the bunch. I'd rather run commando over my assault. The current best suit is a tanked GalScout, and that's not gonna change till they nerf or remove the cloak since they can't figure out how to balance plates.
Edit:I'd love to trade my C-1 for a G-1
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
709
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Posted - 2014.05.18 16:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
"I see cloaked scouts easy" is just bullshit. I have been running as a cloaked scout for a couple of days, I just flank a little and run up behind people and they almost never see me. My guess is that those who argue otherwise are either A) players who don't want cloaks nerfed or B) committing a logical fallacy. If they see some cloaks then they think they are seeing most cloaks. The truth is they have no way of knowing how many they have NOT seen. Does anyone actually believe that there were this many scout shotgun deaths before cloaks? My opinion is cloaks need tweaking and the dampening bonus should be a dampening penalty.
Because, that's why.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
294
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 17:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:Hell man, Cloaks are OP as hell!
Let me tell you why. This is what my main dropsuit fitting looks like:
Assault - Spectre 17k:
Gallente Assault G-1 (STD)
Basic Light Damage Mod (STD)
Exile/Dren Rifle (STD)
Locus Grenades (STD)
Cloak Field (STD)
Enhanced Armor Plating x3
Total Ehp: around 700
Armor Rep: 2 per second
And I kick ass with this. Very seriously, and I feel like a bad ass. My ratio with this suit is around 4:1 KDR, and I target heavies...because apparently I can solo Heavies now, but not damn logis with rail rifles. doesn't make an ounce of sense to me but hell, wtf.
Or you can logi, which nets you 2000 WP a game +, even with basic tools.
That fit doesnt work. It has nowhere near enough pg or cpu if that is an assault suit.
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
147
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:05:00 -
[41] - Quote
Deliberately inflammatory thread strikes again
Nothing Certain wrote:"I see cloaked scouts easy" is just bullshit.....
No. Obvious blue shimmer is obvious.
Quote:....I just flank a little and run up behind people and they almost never see me.
And, wisely, by design "flank and gank" tactics keep you out of line of sight. So obvious blue shimmer is NOT obvious and, for that matter, neither is a non cloaked merc.
Quote: My guess is that those who argue otherwise are either A) players who don't want cloaks nerfed or B) committing a logical fallacy
A) I feel tanking is the real problem.
B) Please note my reply above to MINA Longstrike re: fallacy
Quote:Does anyone actually believe that there were this many scout shotgun deaths before cloaks? Is this true? Death from shotties have increased since cloaks were introduced? In my experience these deaths have remained the same.
Quote: My opinion is ...the dampening bonus should be a dampening penalty.
That seems harsh. I would simply remove the bonus before I went that far.
AKA - StarVenger
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Meisterjager Jagermeister
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
147
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:07:00 -
[42] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
That fit doesnt work. It has nowhere near enough pg or cpu if that is an assault suit.
 Curse you dream killer!
AKA - StarVenger
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
294
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Posted - 2014.05.18 18:10:00 -
[43] - Quote
The cloak is kinda op. In certain areas the shimmer is non-existant. You cant see them. The fact that 2 shots can be fired as the scout uncloaks is rediculous and beeds to be sorted. Also scouts can whack on hp and have the benefits of seeing everyone other than scouts as well as being invisible. Its a bit silly. |
Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
294
|
Posted - 2014.05.18 18:24:00 -
[44] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
That fit doesnt work. It has nowhere near enough pg or cpu if that is an assault suit.
Curse you dream killer!Wait, are you accounting for Dropsuit Electronics/Engineering and Light Weapons and other pg cpu boosting skills? If so Curse you dream killer!
Yeah. By a lot. |
Vinsarrow
New Eden Blades Of The Azure
Zero-Day
277
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Posted - 2014.05.18 20:45:00 -
[45] - Quote
OK 1st off their is no problem with cloaks the only thing is lighting when 1 is running away occasionally.
Cloaks & better defence\HP has made scouts actually viable.
They once were easily findable & made of freaking paper.
If a scout is hiding and staying Still to be invisible then that is fine in my opinion.
The TRUE problem is OP shotguns and scouts basically being invisible on radar.
I think through best fix I a shotgun nerf.
And for people to run stuff that detects scouts on radar.
Also Ty to s little corporation called R0NoN as thanks to them killing people so much we learned scout tricks like dropping HE's on tanks, uplink, ppl, places, points, and while be chased. And more |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5557
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Posted - 2014.05.18 23:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'm going to add my usual proposal.
If people really are this upset with cloaks, DON'T NERF, TWEAK.
Don't remove the dampening bonus entirely. DEFINITELY don't make it a penalty.
10 - 15% dampening bonus instead of the current 25%, and SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
If it makes cloaked players obviously more visible, GREAT.
Also, a couple of Scout suits (Gallente) have been given too much of a buff on their base fitting stats - tighten the PG and CPU capacity a little to make them actually take some effort to fit effectively.
Really though, the only needed "nerf" is to fix the BUGS AND GLITCHES that can be exploited with cloaks and to improve the decloak sound priority and volume settings. It sounds loud enough to the cloaker, but it's MUCH quieter to another player, EVEN when you're right on top of them. If they make that louder, and more importantly, make it so that it's treated as a priority for the game to play. I've tested and confirmed that when there are several ARs firing just barely in earshot, a cloaked player less than 2m from me will be able to decloak silently. The sound simply doesn't play at all. Distant gunfire is a higher priority than the shotgunner appearing directly behind you, according to CCP.
Now onto something else fun...
trollface dot jpg wrote:Noooo.... not OP at all! I can't believe that people are actually upset about me being able to stand still for a minute and a half in a corner without being seen and OHKing them in the back with a shotty! How is anyone upset that my cloak remains active until I get my second shotty shot off? What is wrong with you fools who think that 10 neigh invisible fully tanked suits hiding in every corner is a problem?!?! Gosh people, get over yourselves, it's not like the terrible frame rate and lag in this game makes it THAT much harder to see us when we're cloaked....
First off, I'm sorely tempted to just look at your name and disregard the post on those grounds, but not everyone on these forums actually pays that much attention even when they read what you're saying, so I feel like this needs to be addressed.
If you're hiding in a corner and remain unseen, the enemies are doing it wrong, and got outplayed.
If your cloak remains active even long enough for you to take your FIRST shot, then you're exploiting a glitch, and should report the process you're abusing to CCP. The ability to switch and fire WHILE DECLOAKING is completely separate, and not an issue because during the decloak animation, you're giving people an audio cue to tell them you're decloaking AND you're more visible than the movement shimmer makes you BEFORE THE FIRST SHOT. You can still be less than 100% visible by the time of the second, but anyone even semi-competent with a working TV should have found you by then, assuming the sound didn't get overriden by something else. Decloak sound priority and volume need work, that's the problem.
Also, "neigh" is the sound a horse makes. The word you were looking for is "nigh". |
Eko Sol
Strange Playings
328
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Posted - 2014.05.19 00:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:I don't understand why so many are crying about cloaks.
THEY ARE PERFECT!
I have lost count of the number of "invisible" scouts that I have put down (at least three with a sniper rifle).
Nine times out of ten, if the cloaked scout is in front of me I WILL SEE IT!
If he is behind me, then he didn't need the cloak.
If the scout is in front of me and I didn't see it, shame on ME.
Many complain cloaks allow a first shot while invisible. Well yeah, what else is it for?
There is a trade off many don't realize; if you see the cloaked scout then YOU get the first shot because the scout has to take the second to switch to a weapon which may be all the time you need or, at least, it will give you the head start in that 1v1 battle. If the scout still gets you after that, well that is a good player who would have gotten you anyway.
...or he's tanked.
Cloaks are OP. They are win buttons for below average players. They literally take below average players and average players and make them great players in a lot of ways. There is nothing else out there that does this.
That being said, I run a cloaked scout as well simply because I can. There were very few things I thought or currently think need to be toned down. They absolutely have to introduce something that creates a delay between decloaking and firing a weapon...period. At the bare minimum they need to do this. I would like to also see them have a decloak penalty to the cloak stamina so people can't just decloak and cloak over and over again. It doesn't take skill to do this at all and a lot of players do this.
PSN is "Ekopalm"
I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games
Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
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axINVICTUSxa
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
123
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Posted - 2014.05.19 00:18:00 -
[48] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:axINVICTUSxa wrote:Hell man, Cloaks are OP as hell!
Let me tell you why. This is what my main dropsuit fitting looks like:
Assault - Spectre 17k:
Gallente Assault G-1 (STD)
Basic Light Damage Mod (STD)
Exile/Dren Rifle (STD)
Locus Grenades (STD)
Cloak Field (STD)
Enhanced Armor Plating x3
Total Ehp: around 700
Armor Rep: 2 per second
And I kick ass with this. Very seriously, and I feel like a bad ass. My ratio with this suit is around 4:1 KDR, and I target heavies...because apparently I can solo Heavies now, but not damn logis with rail rifles. doesn't make an ounce of sense to me but hell, wtf.
Or you can logi, which nets you 2000 WP a game +, even with basic tools.
That fit doesnt work. It has nowhere near enough pg or cpu if that is an assault suit.
Oh thats right. I forgot to include I have max CPU/PG Skill Upgrades, plus assault rifle fitting optimization + the Gallente Assault bonus = enough CPU and PG to go around town.
Trust.
I wallow in pools of blood and wash myself anew, I throw away my ugly self in order to become something beautiful...
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Final Resolution.
294
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Posted - 2014.05.19 13:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:axINVICTUSxa wrote:Hell man, Cloaks are OP as hell!
Let me tell you why. This is what my main dropsuit fitting looks like:
Assault - Spectre 17k:
Gallente Assault G-1 (STD)
Basic Light Damage Mod (STD)
Exile/Dren Rifle (STD)
Locus Grenades (STD)
Cloak Field (STD)
Enhanced Armor Plating x3
Total Ehp: around 700
Armor Rep: 2 per second
And I kick ass with this. Very seriously, and I feel like a bad ass. My ratio with this suit is around 4:1 KDR, and I target heavies...because apparently I can solo Heavies now, but not damn logis with rail rifles. doesn't make an ounce of sense to me but hell, wtf.
Or you can logi, which nets you 2000 WP a game +, even with basic tools.
That fit doesnt work. It has nowhere near enough pg or cpu if that is an assault suit. Oh thats right. I forgot to include I have max CPU/PG Skill Upgrades, plus assault rifle fitting optimization + the Gallente Assault bonus = enough CPU and PG to go around town. Trust.
It still would not work. The basic cloak uses 160 cpu. An exile uses about 14 cpu. And 3 enhanced plates use 60 cpu. The max cpu on a basic assault suit is 197. Please dont talk rubbish.
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Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
291
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Posted - 2014.05.19 15:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:Cody Sietz wrote:Cavani1EE7 wrote:Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote:
...or he's tanked.
That's the problem. Yes. Assaults should get a ehp buff btw. Lol look at my post. I can run cloak and still have 700 ehp on my assault. I run gallente for a number of reasons: 1) I am Gallente 2) Gallente Assault allows you to armor tank (STD Gallente Assault has 3 low slots) better plus automatic 2 rep per second 3) Exile/Dren are assault rifle BPO's that I have; Gallente Assault gets a bonus for hybrid weaponry. 4)It's pretty cheap actually. Damn, if they only made BPO's for Gallente G-1's I'd be in heaven. Something I might spend a $100 getting, provided it comes with AUR and other stuff Dragonfly Scout Suits. I'll sell you one real cheap when we get the player market
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