DUST Search - Sign here if you are NOT a fan of CCP Z's new progression.

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

I can't say if I like it or not, as there is often a disparity between how things function in action and how they look on paper. Let us all beta test, so we can give an informed opinion.

But... based on what little I know, I am leaning towards not liking it, as it seems to remove a significant amount of customization and freedom of progression, and it seems to promote waste.

While it seems a reasonable request to "just try it" I would like to remind you that a lack of options on paper isn't going to feel more acceptable when your options are taken away from you for real.

And I would also like to point out that the further CCP gets into this progression tree development, the less likely they are to back out -- even if the entire fanbase is in an uproar over how bad it is. They want to tie equipment consumption, blueprints, even matchmaking to this system. This isn't a thing they can suddenly change when it gets bad feedback. It has to be killed before its born.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4069	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:33:00 - [1] - Quote Personally I'm a fan of the Dust system, but would prefer to see it iterated upon and presented initially with a much more professional New Player Experience and perhaps another rebalance of how modules interact. CCP Z's system to me simply sounds like its setup to be simplified for the sake of reaching out to a much dumber audience, while limiting our options and what we are allowed to do with our SP. Dropsuits would not be consumable, and everything inside of that tree is trained like a "class" in a fantasy MMO like WoW rather than as an individual skill that can be carried from one suit to another. If you are not interested in seeing Legion go in this direction, please sign here. Please note that any comments relating to respec mechanics or improved matchmaking should be kept separate from your decision to sign here, as that kind of thing is really a completely independent issue.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1491	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:36:00 - [2] - Quote Signed. The progression system should be becoming more like EVE, not less like it. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Akdhar Saif Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 493	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:37:00 - [3] - Quote +1 Signed. I'm sure he'll change it, It's been criticised ever since fanfest.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4069	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:39:00 - [4] - Quote To be clear, I do give CCP Z credit for trying to do something new for the game. This is definitely not an attack on his efforts, it just isn't a good fit for this game at all.
XEROO COOL Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1041	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:44:00 - [5] - Quote Signed +1 Xeroo.Cool on Skype. Kyle720 on PSN
Haerr Legio DXIV 624	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote Signed. +1
Forlorn Destrier 2503	Posted - 2014.05.14 18:57:00 - [7] - Quote I'm on the fence. I like the Eve like progression, though I do see the benefits of the new progression system as well. I reserve judgment.
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1841	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:16:00 - [8] - Quote On the fence, leaning towards not a fan. It isn't because "it isn't like EVE!!!" because I think that is a silly point. They are different games. That's like complaining that World of Warcraft and Diablo 3 have different skill systems; they are different games and don't necessarily have to be the same. My complaint is the radical difference from what we have known in DUST. Even if it is a better system, there is almost no connection. There is also the annoyance of "Wait, so if I want to be a Scout with an Assault Rail Rifle I have to go down the Assault tree?" That adds an obscene amount of time to be able to make something that would otherwise be very easy to do. Jeez, in DUST that kind of build could probably be done in two weeks from starting a new character if you planned for it. Having the aspect of needing to go down an entire role just for a few modules is kind of ridiculous in my mind. There is also the fact that respecs are planned. That doesn't bother me too much but it means that CCP has a financial reason to want to do massive changes because people will want to leap onto the Flavor/Fit of the Month which means respecs. Call me "Nervous as hell but reserving judgment until Z completes the whole tree" "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
MassiveNine Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 833	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:24:00 - [9] - Quote Signed. Feels like they are trying to make it more of a grindfest. Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
Corbina Ninja 992	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:36:00 - [10] - Quote x R.I.P. Dust 514 14/05/13 - 02/05/14

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8553	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:59:00 - [11] - Quote I'm not going to sign nor counter sign because at the moment I am still confused in regards to understanding CCP Z's point in all this. I will have to see the skill tree in its entirety to get the whole context. Until then, consider me to be on the fence. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:01:00 - [12] - Quote signed. because FREEDOM click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 150	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:03:00 - [13] - Quote Signed. I'm not down with that either. Detering more people away from this game is starting to look more like a goal for CCP. *I LOGI LIKE I GIVE A FLUX* \|Director of Fatal Absolution\| \|Ringer Hub Creator\| Skype: xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx
DaReaperPW Net 7 The Last Brigade 21	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:05:00 - [14] - Quote I'm going to say this. As this system is in early stage or being developed... (CCP LEGION REALLY NEEDS A GREEN LIGHT) so there is time to change, modify it. But i'm holding off until i see it in action. Because sometimes what someone had in there head translate totally different in practice, where you may be going 'this sounds lame' then try it and go 'oh! now i get it! this rocks" or "No, i was right this sucks."
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2841	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:11:00 - [15] - Quote Signed I AM 1337 Approved
McFurious TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 773	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:25:00 - [16] - Quote Signed. I think his system will be helpful for new players to learn the roles and skills in the game. What I don't like is that it sounded like we're restricted to those role/skill trees. For example, having to skill into a logi suit just to be able to skill into the MD. If we're not restricted or there's a legacy skill tree option like in Dust where the original "skill list" is still there. Then I'm all for it. Half Irish. Often angry. Grizzled Masshole Closed Beta Vet PC > Console
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 210	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:25:00 - [17] - Quote On the fence. Need more info before final judgement
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2365	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:31:00 - [18] - Quote Signed. After watching the video I can say that it seems like a step in the wrong direction. one of the things people have criticised about Dust, is that you had to unlock meaningless skills to get to the one's you want. So, why again, do I have to unlock a certain suit (say Logi) so I can unlock the MD? This seems really stupid. I'm also not a fan of the common-uncommon-rare distinction. How is that supposed to be managed when we have an Eve connected market with player crafted gear?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2889	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:36:00 - [19] - Quote I'm reserving judgement until I know more about it. We can't really provide a lot of feedback on something we haven't seen much on yet.
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 131	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:54:00 - [20] - Quote Signed. Not really read the new progression, but I fully agree Legion progression must be as much EVE-like as possible.

Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 795	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:01:00 - [21] - Quote I can't say if I like it or not, as there is often a disparity between how things function in action and how they look on paper. Let us all beta test, so we can give an informed opinion. But... based on what little I know, I am leaning towards not liking it, as it seems to remove a significant amount of customization and freedom of progression, and it seems to promote waste.
Denchlad 7 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 254	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:47:00 - [22] - Quote /signed. I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. I swear to it.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4084	Posted - 2014.05.14 22:52:00 - [23] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: I can't say if I like it or not, as there is often a disparity between how things function in action and how they look on paper. Let us all beta test, so we can give an informed opinion. But... based on what little I know, I am leaning towards not liking it, as it seems to remove a significant amount of customization and freedom of progression, and it seems to promote waste. While it seems a reasonable request to "just try it" I would like to remind you that a lack of options on paper isn't going to feel more acceptable when your options are taken away from you for real. And I would also like to point out that the further CCP gets into this progression tree development, the less likely they are to back out -- even if the entire fanbase is in an uproar over how bad it is.
Ender Storm Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 131	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:20:00 - [24] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I can't say if I like it or not, as there is often a disparity between how things function in action and how they look on paper. Let us all beta test, so we can give an informed opinion. But... based on what little I know, I am leaning towards not liking it, as it seems to remove a significant amount of customization and freedom of progression, and it seems to promote waste. While it seems a reasonable request to "just try it" I would like to remind you that a lack of options on paper isn't going to feel more acceptable when your options are taken away from you for real. And I would also like to point out that the further CCP gets into this progression tree development, the less likely they are to back out -- even if the entire fanbase is in an uproar over how bad it is. They want to tie equipment consumption, blueprints, even matchmaking to this system. This isn't a thing they can suddenly change when it gets bad feedback. It has to be killed before its born. Thats true, when the games are into beta, pretty much all mechanics are already set up and hardly they change. The moment to discuss things is at design stage and alpha test when the select few opinions may bear weight. All else is minor adjustments and balance.
Kovinis Sparagas Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 391	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:21:00 - [25] - Quote +1 signed I support EVE Legion, but the message was very badly delivered...
HiddenBrother 163	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:23:00 - [26] - Quote Moves game to PC. Restructures game to appeal to casuals. GG CCP
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 795	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:25:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: I can't say if I like it or not, as there is often a disparity between how things function in action and how they look on paper. Let us all beta test, so we can give an informed opinion. But... based on what little I know, I am leaning towards not liking it, as it seems to remove a significant amount of customization and freedom of progression, and it seems to promote waste. While it seems a reasonable request to "just try it" I would like to remind you that a lack of options on paper isn't going to feel more acceptable when your options are taken away from you for real. And I would also like to point out that the further CCP gets into this progression tree development, the less likely they are to back out -- even if the entire fanbase is in an uproar over how bad it is. They want to tie equipment consumption, blueprints, even matchmaking to this system. This isn't a thing they can suddenly change when it gets bad feedback. It has to be killed before its born. So... CCP will cripple themselves, and not learn from feedback and the entire fustercluck of DUST? All because they are a few measly months into development of a game (which normally take YEARS to develop) AND has not even been greenlit? I don't buy it. Especially now that they are doing this on their home turf. If the game got out of beta with the progression system and all the tie-ins, I'd share your concern. But so far, the game still seems to be in pre-alpha or thereabout. I doubt CCP will shoot themselves in the foot again. Change it now, or don't. Either way, I want something in my hands to feel, to test, and to give informed feedback on. Words on paper (or in this case, pixels on a screen) only go so far.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4085	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:50:00 - [28] - Quote If it makes it to beta, there will already be far too much investment into the system to justify removing it Minotaur. Every other design choice in the game will revolve around it. When the core of the game is so entirely bad that the community outright rejects it, you have the occasional, and very very rare, total reboot. That is what you are getting with Legion. They are not going to reboot a reboot. When Legion's system comes out, thats it. You're not getting another one.
SatBee Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.05.14 23:59:00 - [29] - Quote I can't say that i'm totally against it already with so limited info. But i already have huge concerns with it.
Captain Crutches Nexus Marines 110	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:13:00 - [30] - Quote Putting my name in. Not only does it seem dumbed down and restrictive, but the dropsuit BPO idea goes directly against CCP Scarpia's vision that everything should be destructible. I'm also even more nervous about it now that I've seen in the sticky that Z plans to add a respec option. That tells me that he knows it's flawed - The mark of a good progression system should be that you don't need a respec option at all. If you dump SP (or whatever ends up being the equivalent) into a certain item or skill set, that's your choice and your specialization - you should always be just as capable of skilling into something else provided you work up the SP to do so. I hear potentially at-will respecs and I think "Is it really going to be so difficult to skill into something new that CCP would rather just let you change your specialization instantly whenever you want?" If respecs are ever added to EVE, I'll unsubscribe - I've put up with them in Dust with the understanding that eventually there would be no need and they would stop completely. Z's statement worries me a lot in that area. Of course I agree that it's much harder to judge this system without seeing it in action, but as Himiko pointed out above, once we see it in action it will likely be too late to change it, so we need to work on it as much as we can before then. But I don't like what I'm reading... Legion is absolutely the right move for the future of Dust. How CCP went about revealing it is the biggest problem.



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