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10 hour heros, aimbots and fights that matter.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:51:00 - [1] - Quote With a F2P shooter on the PC, what will be done to ensure fights that matter, ( districts, FW, etc ) are not overrun with expendable characters employing hacks / cheats? I understand the persistant character mechanics will reduce the amount of players willing to risk their mains, but what about the players willing to create 10 hour hero alts and leverage every advantage available for a single match? On the console we have seen players use every possible advantage in fights. SSDs and modded controllers are bad enough to deal with. What will be done about the inevitable wallhacks, aimbots and other vermin ? This article touches on the scale and business of the opposition : http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/04/30/hacks-an-investigation-into-aimbot-dealers-wallhack-users-and-the-million-dollar-business-of-video-game-cheating/ http://dl.pcgamer.com/PCG%20large%20images/cheatingfeature/cscheatgif3-2.gif Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 602	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:53:00 - [2] - Quote At the very least I would hope CCP are looking at methods like punkbuster. I know punkbuster isnt perfect but I must say I have never had any issues in punkbuster enabled games. I am sure there are other methods too.
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:54:00 - [3] - Quote I have observed magical bullshit in pointless lobby shooters. With more meaningful fights I think the incentive to cheat will be much more amplified. Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 627	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:55:00 - [4] - Quote dent 308 wrote: I understand the persistant character mechanics will reduce the amount of players willing to risk their mains, but what about the players willing to create 10 hour hero alts and leverage every advantage available for a single match? Good training targets 4 us. ...sorry for bad English =)
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 15:58:00 - [5] - Quote John Psi wrote: dent 308 wrote: I understand the persistant character mechanics will reduce the amount of players willing to risk their mains, but what about the players willing to create 10 hour hero alts and leverage every advantage available for a single match? Good training targets 4 us. A 10 hour hero won't be able to tank much, but equipped with a high alpha weapon and an aimbot they would be magic fast. Even more so if there is a few of them running. I am curious to hear ( at least in the broad strokes, without opsec detail ) what is being considered to counter this sort of crap. Another dynamic could be hiring mercs who employ such fuckery. Could there be fallout from this sort of business? Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14810	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:03:00 - [6] - Quote So would you risk losing a year old character to a ban? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:04:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So would you risk losing a year old character to a ban? 10 hour hero is an alt, not a main. Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
DUST Fiend The Wings of Legion 14278	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:09:00 - [8] - Quote dent 308 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So would you risk losing a year old character to a ban? 10 hour hero is an alt, not a main. This is basically my only concern with Legion right now
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3338	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:10:00 - [9] - Quote dent 308 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So would you risk losing a year old character to a ban? 10 hour hero is an alt, not a main. Alts are connected to your main, they would ban the account not the character. And I'm guessing they'll already have rules against creating multiple accounts using the same IP, so trying to do that would be pointless too. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:12:00 - [10] - Quote IP is not a protection for anything. Anyone saavy enough to employ hacks would be able to employ another IP. There are also cases where multiple players could be sharing an IP due to isp stupidness as well. Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14813	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:20:00 - [11] - Quote dent 308 wrote: IP is not a protection for anything. Anyone saavy enough to employ hacks would be able to employ another IP. There are also cases where multiple players could be sharing an IP due to isp stupidness as well. Not good enough CCP ban hammers have nailed accounts entirely 'unrelated' to the 'cheaters' in eve before. The cheaters tears are rather delicious when the bans go out because you get to hear how excessively far they went to protect their accounts and how useless the efforts are. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:26:00 - [12] - Quote Good stuff, however this is arms race type stuff once begun. I am hearing in PS2 they have even gone to the point of having invisible devs/gms flying about in matches looking for badness. There could be a considerable manpower cost to all these activities. Rick : And remember, this gun is pointed right at your heart. Captain Renault : That is my least vulnerable spot
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14814	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:29:00 - [13] - Quote dent 308 wrote: Good stuff, however this is arms race type stuff once begun. I am hearing in PS2 they have even gone to the point of having invisible devs/gms flying about in matches looking for badness. There could be a considerable manpower cost to all these activities. Funny it was those abilities that cheaters have borrowed back in the days when the console command was available. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote dent 308 wrote: IP is not a protection for anything. Anyone saavy enough to employ hacks would be able to employ another IP. There are also cases where multiple players could be sharing an IP due to isp stupidness as well. No, but if you are like me with a 11+ year old EVE account with a 205 million SP character, you are not going to do anything naughty to jeopardize that account.
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 27	Posted - 2014.05.09 16:33:00 - [15] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: dent 308 wrote: Good stuff, however this is arms race type stuff once begun. I am hearing in PS2 they have even gone to the point of having invisible devs/gms flying about in matches looking for badness. There could be a considerable manpower cost to all these activities. Funny it was those abilities that cheaters have borrowed back in the days when the console command was available. While the console command is gone, the noclip exploit is still an issue.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2191	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:06:00 - [16] - Quote Dent's point is that people would start a brand new account (free to play, remember?) and use that to do their banworthy actions, leaving their real character untouchable. If possible, punkbuster would be good. I've never encountered any blatant cheating in a punkbuster game. Aside from that I see a few design options 1) Limit the effectiveness of a brand new character like that enough that it isn't worth trying to bring them into territory fights to cheat with. Kind of a bad idea, since it really punishes new players. 2) Restrict access to territory battles until a character is a certain age and has participated in enough of structured battles with a certain level of performance. The idea is to make a throwaway alt more work than people are willing to do. If the battles happen in a truly open world area, restriction might have to be through reducing their damage output by 100% or something. 3) Along with client monitoring (Eve has done well in detecting hacked clients), make it so that in order for a new character to participate he has to be sponsored / guaranteed by a much older character. If the young character is a cheat and it is detected, the older character gets punished as if it was him. 4) Roll back the territory ownership effects of any battle where cheating is detected.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8456	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:14:00 - [17] - Quote Aimbots should be easy to deal with on a PC. Just make it so that aim assist is hardly noticeable and NEVER user auto-aim-to-head when zooming in like you would likely see in CoD. As for wall hacks, that's an entirely different beast. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 4390	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:24:00 - [18] - Quote We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8456	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:25:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) Are you guys intending to implement Punk Buster? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2194	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:30:00 - [20] - Quote Some more rough ideas. Monitor the statistics of brand new characters and flag them if their stats are too good, allowing an invisible GM to follow them around. If a previously unknown hack is being used and got through the anti-cheating systems, refund everyone killed for their losses and zero the cheater's stats. This would reduce the incentive to cheat. For territorial conquest battles, borrow from Eve's war system. In order to take territory you have to declare that you're going to take territory from the other corp. Anyone not in your corp / alliance does reduced damage within the battle area, but when declaring your intent you can add allies to the combatant list. This excludes npc corp alts from affecting the outcome, but has a risk similar to district locking that would need to be accounted for.

Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 945	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:34:00 - [21] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) Are you guys intending to implement Punk Buster? Punk Buster is not the only option, FairFight being one alternative - plus it is Legion is still only a prototype.

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 4390	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:35:00 - [22] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) Are you guys intending to implement Punk Buster? Punk Buster is not the only option, FairFight being one alternative - plus it is Legion is still only a prototype. I really don't know at this point. I think it's a little early to say, and again I'm not in Shanghai to follow up for you right now. I know that security is of utmost importance to us however! CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 1969	Posted - 2014.05.09 18:36:00 - [23] - Quote Nyctohylophobia wrote: dent 308 wrote: IP is not a protection for anything. Anyone saavy enough to employ hacks would be able to employ another IP. There are also cases where multiple players could be sharing an IP due to isp stupidness as well. No, but if you are like me with a 11+ year old EVE account with a 205 million SP character, you are not going to do anything naughty to jeopardize that account. Totally off-topic but.... What exactly can't you do with a 205m SP char? I ask can't since I think it would be easier to list that than what you can do Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Nyctohylophobia Kinsho Swords Caldari State 29	Posted - 2014.05.09 19:00:00 - [24] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Nyctohylophobia wrote: dent 308 wrote: IP is not a protection for anything. Anyone saavy enough to employ hacks would be able to employ another IP. There are also cases where multiple players could be sharing an IP due to isp stupidness as well. No, but if you are like me with a 11+ year old EVE account with a 205 million SP character, you are not going to do anything naughty to jeopardize that account. Totally off-topic but.... What exactly can't you do with a 205m SP char? I ask can't since I think it would be easier to list that than what you can do Fly titans, because I choose not to.
Phoenix 85 Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 68	Posted - 2014.05.09 19:08:00 - [25] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Aimbots should be easy to deal with on a PC. Just make it so that aim assist is hardly noticeable and NEVER user auto-aim-to-head when zooming in like you would likely see in CoD. As for wall hacks, that's an entirely different beast. In regards to 10-hour disposable alts, I recommend the following changes to at least deal with the ISK farming. 1. Increase termination cooldown timer to 24 hours. 2. Implement a proper Academy system in Legion that feel like an actual academy. 3. Require the player to complete the entire academy before being able to transfer any ISK at all to anyone. As for tracing perps using disposable alts, it's very easy to track them. Just follow the ISK trail recorded from every transaction. This enabled CCP to catch RMT bastards on multiple ISPs and emails that (at first glance) appear to be unrelated to each other. Lock new chars to acadamy until they reach 500,000 war points and 3 mil SP. Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
Whinis Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2014.05.10 12:45:00 - [26] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) Are you guys intending to implement Punk Buster? Punk Buster is not the only option, FairFight being one alternative - plus it is Legion is still only a prototype. Im sorry but neither of those work very well and act very much as spyware on your computer and like some other programs are near impossible to remove. The best way to fight those is not to sit there and try and implement every program around but do as eve does and look for odd patterns (such as consecutive headshots when not humanly possible) and ban people that way . The last thing I want on my computer is some malware just to make some people feel good.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 479	Posted - 2014.05.10 13:14:00 - [27] - Quote There are passive hacks as well, like tweaking the shimmering effects to highlight cloaked scouts. Eve had an exploit where the audio could be 'enhanced' to detect a cloaked ship anywhere in the solar system. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8470	Posted - 2014.05.10 13:16:00 - [28] - Quote Whinis wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: We're totally aware of how prevalent cheating can be on PC, and we're looking in to anti-cheating. The security guys will be very busy, I'm sure. :) Are you guys intending to implement Punk Buster? Punk Buster is not the only option, FairFight being one alternative - plus it is Legion is still only a prototype. Im sorry but neither of those work very well and act very much as spyware on your computer and like some other programs are near impossible to remove. The best way to fight those is not to sit there and try and implement every program around but do as eve does and look for odd patterns (such as consecutive headshots when not humanly possible) and ban people that way . The last thing I want on my computer is some malware just to make some people feel good. In that case, I guess I don't think I want it on my computer either. I'm sure CCP can figure out patterns using their experience from Eve. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Thrydwulf Khodan 94	Posted - 2014.05.10 13:55:00 - [29] - Quote The issues with policing computer based FPS games and the necessity for 'anti-hack' applications that are invasive is one of the reasons that the console market can make for a more consistent and 'even' experience for users. Even if 'development work' for personal computers is 'easier'.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8473	Posted - 2014.05.10 14:16:00 - [30] - Quote Thrydwulf Khodan wrote: The issues with policing computer based FPS games and the necessity for 'anti-hack' applications that are invasive is one of the reasons that the console market can make for a more consistent and 'even' experience for users. Even if 'development work' for personal computers is 'easier'. Eve Online actually has a built-in checker that does a quick scan of anything manipulating the data going in and out of the client. It's the first line of defense against bot users use software to manipulate the data in a way that enables them to AFK mine and mission for hours without attending the computer. More advanced bot programs use OCR (optical character readers) to get around that but CCP can catch those as well by simply using a combination of looking for suspicious ISK transactions and behavior detection which is usually updated on a regular basis. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.



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