Were did they say that they will move to CoD-like progression? If you're talking about the Dust keynote that detailed progression in Legion that is nothing like CoD.

Were did they say that they will move to CoD-like progression? If you're talking about the Dust keynote that detailed progression in Legion that is nothing like CoD.

What I don't understand is how they're trying to dumb it down when moving to PC. PC is the opportunity to make it more complez and intricate, you dumb it down for damn consoles. Seems all in reverse to me.

are you new to gaming?

are you new to gaming?

I agree with his sentiment. With more hardware to throw at the game, they should have much more freedom in what and how they implement features. This would lead me to think that if they're going to go to higher spec hardware (PC), they can make the game more intricate and complex (fun).

There's nothing particularly difficult to understand about what I said, is there? When you move to the PC it's a chance for the developer to make the systems more intricate, like, oh I don't know... EVE?

just throwing 'eve' into the mix doesn't work anymore. that was the reason we liked dust. pick a lane.

the hardware requirements change very little. if they're sloppy with their coding, all the specs in the world don't make a good game.
they are NOT building an efficient system, they're building a bigger less efficient system.

just throwing 'eve' into the mix doesn't work anymore. that was the reason we liked dust. pick a lane.

the thing we like about dust is that it doesn't follow that same bs formula that every other game does.

so they're removing that part of the game.

There's been talk of moving to a more COD-like progression system and dropping the use of SP altogether. I disagree strongly with getting rid of SP as a means of furthering our characters. It allows for the passive/active gain of skills over time and gives players a very direct means of measuring their progress toward unlockables.

I see this as a critical feature that legion must have to be successful.

What is everyone else's opinion on the matter?

IMO, there is nothing wrong with the current progression system and skill tree. The problem is match making. That is the only thing that needs to be fixed. How? Remove it and allow players to choose who they want to fight and where.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxhrGVv0NuQ

relevant video. He mentions that the flexibility of the system is a problem. Wow. Please straighten him out CCP :(

I agree. This particular devs view of the skill system is incredibly disturbing.

He considers a problem what we would consider a boon.

That leads me to think the next iteration of New Eden FPS is going to become incredibly dumbed down, and not really resemble EVE at all.

@Logibro if you're listening

Could you please talk to whoever needs to be talked to about getting a mass survey out about this like we've had before? I feel like those surveys would give CCP an idea of how people feel about those changes.

Logibro "moved on to a new opportunity" and is , as far as I know, no longer with CCP.

Yea CCP I am also very curious and wish to know more about the progression system in general. I understand the need to streamline things and make things more apparent, however I hate the idea of any dumbing down of the game.

I would also hope that the idea of skillpoints is kept. Sure it doesn't have to be the exact same system but I really like the passive over time mixed with the active in game rewards.

My impression was that you guys were just going to make things better and more understandable. Would you care to comment on your ideas for the progression system for Legion CCP?

No... that isn't what they are going for at all. They want everything to be equally accessible, not simply understandable. and everything shouldn't be.

The guy was saying that dropsuits shouldn't even be consumed when you die. That's how dumbed down we're talking about.

Wait is this for eve legion or dust, I saw this for dust but nothing on eve legion.

This is all for Legion. Your confusion is understandable since CCP has been screwing the pooch on this PR nightmare for days now.

First person to reply gets all my isk and then some if legion is just as much of a special case haven as dust, and I really do mean and then SOME!.

First

First

Don't get your hopes up though as this is so far off and reme!her also lest I forget.

Oh I wont as I deleted the game I was just trolling give it to the next in line. Thanks though.

Btw I'm IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY.

replying

Found out:

CCP Bro is leaving, not CCP logibro.

TOO MANY BROS

I think each suit has its own specific use and should be left in game, that said, it is a little ridiculous to skill a medium frame to skill into an assault or logi frame when the medium frame will solely be used for the first 30 days or so until the player has skills for the Assault or Logi suit. The idea behind "specializing allows us to be good" at one thing is somewhat flawed in that I have proven to my corp mates this build that a scout or any other suit that has equipment slots can do a logi role just fine provided they have put points into equipment. There really are a lot of SP sinks in the game, cleaning those up so each level of skill adds more value to skilling is something that I think should be worked on more than the way experience progresses.

SP being the form of experience in EVE, it should be retained in EVE: Legion. If you want things to make sense this is the way to do it.

Some people have mentioned eliminating the various metas of weapons and going to a different system similar to COD or BF customizations for the weapons. This is something I would discourage. It also makes little sense in the EVE to move away from the system of various meta level weapons with differing attributes. With all the officer and faction mods in EVE the system currently in place for weaponry and equipment is something that CCP's main audience can understand without any additional thought and again this follows EVE lore.

I would be okay with reworking the suits. I realize SP sinks were kinda necessary, but as more and more stuff is being added, SP sinks are starting to make less sense.

Not using SP to measure progress is stupid. I'm glad you mentioned this.

I think developing the weapon changes in Eve in parallel with Legion makes a lot of sense. At some point we'll be moving away from strict meta progression and move into more side specialization. This already started in dust, but I would be okay going all the way when Eve begins it's weapon refactor.

I suppose that it's just as important to talk about the items since the SP issue is so tightly tied to it.

They need to go with a 100% Passive system for SP accrual in Legion, it should also mirror Eve in that your Passive SP accumulates in Skills which you have "queued".

If there is to be any Active SP accrual, it should be purely in things which we are actively practicing.

If I use a Combat Rifle, I should be getting SP that can be put towards Combat Rifles (any skill in the Combat Rifle tree that I have already unlocked or unlocking CR tree Skills that I have available to me).

Practice makes perfect? Although this works in games like Battlefield and COD I don't think it actually applies well in Legion/Dust due to the fact that there are plenty of things we need to skill into to actually unlock. Its not like a person can just pick up a Militia HMG and use it without any SP into it. In fact I believe you will be hard pressed to find a Militia HMG on the market.

Eve uses a skill que to set which skill trains no matter what you are doing, and this method of skilling although it is fully passive, is more akin to the method of skilling you are suggesting.

They need to go with a 100% Passive system for SP accrual in Legion, it should also mirror Eve in that your Passive SP accumulates in Skills which you have "queued".

If there were to be a change so that all active and passive sp went into the skill in the queue then I think it would be ok but it would mean that choices made prior to acquiring the needed SP to skill an item would matter significantly. Would you really enjoy this type of skill progression?

Yes, currently, there are no Militia HMGs on the market, I am aware of this. However, this suggestion is purely for Legion, which, AFAIK hasn't even really entered production (aside from a Proof of Concept tech demo).

If Legion is built for this from the start, then it stands to reason that there will be Militia versions of all equipment.



If you'll note, the first sentence in my post that you quote is:



The Eve method isn't akin to my suggestion at all, it is my suggestion. I simply make an additional suggestion to account for the existence of Active SP.



You're misunderstanding what I proposed, I apologize for having explained it poorly. Only your Passive SP would go directly into a skill you have queued. Active SP that you accumulate would go into a totally separate pool dedicated to the items you used to acquire that SP.

Let's assume for a moment that I don't have Demolitions, Explosives and Grenadier all to 5, for arguments sake we'll say that I have Explosives 3 and Demolitions/Grenadier both to 1.

Since I am a scrub, I go 3/7/11 using only Locus Grenades and Remotes. I got two of my kills using Locus Grenades so that is 100 SP that I can apply towards Grenadier or Explosives (since Grenadier is a child branch of the Explosives tree). My third kill and all of my Assists were from Remotes (**** you Sentinel gk.0 users), this gives me 225 SP that I can apply to Demolitions or Explosives (since Demolitions is a child branch of the Explosives tree). All of this was done while wearing a G-I Scout, thus they could also be spent on Gallente Scout Dropsuit (or Gallente Light Frame since GSD is a child branch of the Gallente Light Frame tree*).

If I spend my 100 Grenadier SP on Grenadier, that gets removed from the pools for GSD/GLF and Explosives. This leaves me with my 225 SP that I earned from Remotes, these can be spent on Demo, Explosives, GSD or GLF. I decide to spend 50 SP on each of those four as well as dumping the remaining 25 SP into Demo.

My Active SP isn't going into an already queued skill, it is going into pools associated with the Skills I used to get the SP.

Yes, I went with a 1 WP:1 SP conversion for simplicity's sake.

I hope this is better explained.



*Dropsuit Command is also a possibility since GSD and GLF are both child branches of the DS Command tree.

There's been talk of moving to a more COD-like progression system and dropping the use of SP altogether. I disagree strongly with getting rid of SP as a means of furthering our characters. It allows for the passive/active gain of skills over time and gives players a very direct means of measuring their progress toward unlockables.

I see this as a critical feature that legion must have to be successful.

What is everyone else's opinion on the matter?

I am a little confused. Dust is what dust is and very little is going to change. The SP system is the least likely to change. Way too much work and no potential upside from what situations I can dream up.

If you are talking about Legion than it would be best to clarify that statement. The journalists that reported on the demo stated there was progression but mostly based on finding (aka salvaging) better weapons (and modules?) from battlefield debris. That doesn't sound like either a CoD progression nor an XP type of system like SP is.

Nor does it sound like EVE as its SP system is totally passive from what I understand.

Why people always confuse complexity with depth, and simplicity with dumbness, is beyond me. You would all make terrible engineers.

Chess mechanics are simple, but it allows for a very deep gameplay.