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Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
85
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
There's been talk of moving to a more COD-like progression system and dropping the use of SP altogether. I disagree strongly with getting rid of SP as a means of furthering our characters. It allows for the passive/active gain of skills over time and gives players a very direct means of measuring their progress toward unlockables.
I see this as a critical feature that legion must have to be successful.
What is everyone else's opinion on the matter? |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
87
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Were did they say that they will move to CoD-like progression? If you're talking about the Dust keynote that detailed progression in Legion that is nothing like CoD.
Without linking specific posts, they've been very vague about how they want to continue skill progression (likely because it hasn't been decided yet), but the vibe I'm getting from the devs talking about it is that the Skill system will be dumbed down and flattened to the point that either there will be no real progression or it will be COD-like with unlocks and predetermined loadouts and more specific limitations on gear that can be used per suit.
I want to (hopefully) avoid that altogether and have a discussion for them to maybe look at before anything is set in stone. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
88
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
low genius wrote:843 Epidemic wrote:What I don't understand is how they're trying to dumb it down when moving to PC. PC is the opportunity to make it more complez and intricate, you dumb it down for damn consoles. Seems all in reverse to me. are you new to gaming?
I agree with his sentiment. With more hardware to throw at the game, they should have much more freedom in what and how they implement features. This would lead me to think that if they're going to go to higher spec hardware (PC), they can make the game more intricate and complex (fun). |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
89
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
low genius wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:low genius wrote:843 Epidemic wrote:What I don't understand is how they're trying to dumb it down when moving to PC. PC is the opportunity to make it more complez and intricate, you dumb it down for damn consoles. Seems all in reverse to me. are you new to gaming? I agree with his sentiment. With more hardware to throw at the game, they should have much more freedom in what and how they implement features. This would lead me to think that if they're going to go to higher spec hardware (PC), they can make the game more intricate and complex (fun). the hardware requirements change very little. if they're sloppy with their coding, all the specs in the world don't make a good game. they are NOT building an efficient system, they're building a bigger less efficient system.
Fine, they aren't building the most efficient system. But I'm okay with that since I much prefer a sports car to an economy car.
Lets also remember that x86 as an architecture is simply easier to code for. This change alone will cause development to increase in both speed and quality.
But this is entirely off-topic. We're talking about skill progression... |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
89
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
low genius wrote:843 Epidemic wrote:low genius wrote:843 Epidemic wrote:What I don't understand is how they're trying to dumb it down when moving to PC. PC is the opportunity to make it more complez and intricate, you dumb it down for damn consoles. Seems all in reverse to me. are you new to gaming? There's nothing particularly difficult to understand about what I said, is there? When you move to the PC it's a chance for the developer to make the systems more intricate, like, oh I don't know... EVE? just throwing 'eve' into the mix doesn't work anymore. that was the reason we liked dust. pick a lane.
The point here that he's trying to make is that dust's appeal is both the similarity and connection to Eve. Dropping those things cause dust to not be dust anymore. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Logibro if you're listening
Could you please talk to whoever needs to be talked to about getting a mass survey out about this like we've had before? I feel like those surveys would give CCP an idea of how people feel about those changes. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
90
|
Posted - 2014.05.07 16:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxhrGVv0NuQ
relevant video. He mentions that the flexibility of the system is a problem. Wow. Please straighten him out CCP :( |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.05.07 17:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxhrGVv0NuQ
relevant video. He mentions that the flexibility of the system is a problem. Wow. Please straighten him out CCP :( I agree. This particular devs view of the skill system is incredibly disturbing. He considers a problem what we would consider a boon. That leads me to think the next iteration of New Eden FPS is going to become incredibly dumbed down, and not really resemble EVE at all.
There are so many disturbing things in this presentation. I will not be playing EVE:Legion if this is how you want to proceed, CCP. Make these proposed changes public sooner so that the player base can lash out again and let you know how counter to the spirit of dust this is. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
91
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Posted - 2014.05.07 17:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Fenix Alexarr wrote:@Logibro if you're listening
Could you please talk to whoever needs to be talked to about getting a mass survey out about this like we've had before? I feel like those surveys would give CCP an idea of how people feel about those changes. Logibro "moved on to a new opportunity" and is , as far as I know, no longer with CCP.
Source? This is not inspiring faith in the new product. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
93
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Posted - 2014.05.07 18:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Wait is this for eve legion or dust, I saw this for dust but nothing on eve legion.
This is all for Legion. Your confusion is understandable since CCP has been screwing the pooch on this PR nightmare for days now. |
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Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
93
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Posted - 2014.05.07 18:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:First person to reply gets all my isk and then some if legion is just as much of a special case haven as dust, and I really do mean and then SOME!.
replying |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
98
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Posted - 2014.05.07 20:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
843 Epidemic wrote:Found out:
CCP Bro is leaving, not CCP logibro.
TOO MANY BROS
I freaked out a little when I read that first message >.>
Back on Topic! We need more people to chime in on this. I still want to see some sort of response or survey with some of these proposed changes make it out before they are permanent. I don't see the core of our players wanting something like what is being planned. |
Fenix Alexarr
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
101
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Posted - 2014.05.09 13:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I think each suit has its own specific use and should be left in game, that said, it is a little ridiculous to skill a medium frame to skill into an assault or logi frame when the medium frame will solely be used for the first 30 days or so until the player has skills for the Assault or Logi suit. The idea behind "specializing allows us to be good" at one thing is somewhat flawed in that I have proven to my corp mates this build that a scout or any other suit that has equipment slots can do a logi role just fine provided they have put points into equipment. There really are a lot of SP sinks in the game, cleaning those up so each level of skill adds more value to skilling is something that I think should be worked on more than the way experience progresses.
SP being the form of experience in EVE, it should be retained in EVE: Legion. If you want things to make sense this is the way to do it.
Some people have mentioned eliminating the various metas of weapons and going to a different system similar to COD or BF customizations for the weapons. This is something I would discourage. It also makes little sense in the EVE to move away from the system of various meta level weapons with differing attributes. With all the officer and faction mods in EVE the system currently in place for weaponry and equipment is something that CCP's main audience can understand without any additional thought and again this follows EVE lore.
I would be okay with reworking the suits. I realize SP sinks were kinda necessary, but as more and more stuff is being added, SP sinks are starting to make less sense.
Not using SP to measure progress is stupid. I'm glad you mentioned this.
I think developing the weapon changes in Eve in parallel with Legion makes a lot of sense. At some point we'll be moving away from strict meta progression and move into more side specialization. This already started in dust, but I would be okay going all the way when Eve begins it's weapon refactor.
I suppose that it's just as important to talk about the items since the SP issue is so tightly tied to it. |
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