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Lynn Beck
Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men.
1603
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Posted - 2014.05.01 01:53:00 -
[31] - Quote
He was outside of your field of view to begin with, so he didn't even need a cloak.
You're honestly just looking for a way to establish your 'but i'm THE BEST! I'm OOBER L337! I CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO DIE!'
General John Ripper
Like ALL the things!!!
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
699
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Posted - 2014.05.01 01:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
whats the cloak matter if they are already behind you? also ive seen plenty of the invisible people while cloaked, not that hard
It'll help define roles, i promise:)
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Foxbat 071
Inner.Hell
178
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Posted - 2014.05.01 01:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
Honestly, I enjoyed pre-cloak shotgunning more than our current shotgunning. I can't speak for all scouts, but in my opinion stalking players was more fun when it was 100% "skill" based. Not to imply that the cloak is "skill-less", but it is considerably easier to close the gap with a cloak.
I find using our new EQ slot for RE/nanohive combos much more fun and useful than using it for a cloak. It works better with my playstyle.
I personally don't have a huge issue with cloaks. They could use careful tweaking, but irrational nerfs will do more damage than good. This is something the community in general has still not learned.
BLAP
( X ) Call For Help
( O ) Respawn
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
4134
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Posted - 2014.05.01 01:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:Michael Arck wrote:But there are newbies who step in who takes a licking and keep on fighting. They don't say "oh, the guy shot me in the back and that takes no skill". You didn't watch your six, so that's lacking in your skill. War isn't about a "fair fight" and gentlemen's rules. Especially in New Eden. You have to be cunning, ruthless, and aware. We are mercenaries. Fairness and mercenaries don't go together. So you might take this wrong way but you shouldn't...in this case you should really HTFU.
War is never pretty. There are no referees in battle.
Oooooh, you're such an e-badass, I bet your name in real life is John Connor. When the machine Uprising comes you can lead the human race to victory based on your mad warfare skills developed by playing Dust and reading the Art of War (Readers Digest, Abridged version), twice.
Interesting, I called it before it happened, trying to prevent post like yours happened...but it happened anyway
Michael Arck wrote: So you might take this wrong way but you shouldn't...
I'm not a bad ass, but I also don't cry when the rain falls either. And I don't call people skill-less because they hopped out of tank to kill me. I expect it that because we are at war. You show me a war that's all about fairness and I'll show you a tap dancing turtle.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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Powerh8er
Arrogance. Caps and Mercs
415
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
I tea bag every scout that fails to shotgun me down from behind. Thats alot of tea bagging. |
RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
774
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:00:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sometimes it isn't the game that needs balancing. It's that your skill level is lower than other peoples.
I'm not trying to be a **** , but I hear complaints all the time about, gear, lagging, weapon balance, and fits towards the enemy. I confront the enemy and they have tremendous skill.
I know some players exploit any advantage they can, but it's not the majority.
Some players are badasses.
We can pickle that.
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3214
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
I got tired of the shotguns so I skilled into scouts myself.
Even at advanced I have a lot of fun killing other cloakers, and because each suit only costs 23k I don't care about dying either.
I'm kinda sad that my logi is useless with all of these scouts running around, but as long as you squad up with some heavies you actually do pretty well.
Diversity is great, I just think that there needs to be another counter to the scout besides just other scouts.
Links:
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
I make logistics videos!
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
RemingtonBeaver wrote:Sometimes it isn't the game that needs balancing. It's that your skill level is lower than other peoples.
I'm not trying to be a **** , but I hear complaints all the time about, gear, lagging, weapon balance, and fits towards the enemy. I confront the enemy and they have tremendous skill.
I know some players exploit any advantage they can, but it's not the majority.
Some players are badasses.
I don't agree, but thank you.
I agree some people are just twitchers or badasses, but we are getting to the point were that's all there in this game.
Scouts were arguably overpowered before, now give them a cloak or the ability to push their armor up to Medium or Heavy level and it's moved past overpowered to ridiculous. |
Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn
4135
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
lol scouts were OP. Since when? Oh the few dedicated scout players before 1.8. Keyword, few.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Are you OUKH?
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
Foxbat 071 wrote:Honestly, I enjoyed pre-cloak shotgunning more than our current shotgunning. I can't speak for all scouts, but in my opinion stalking players was more fun when it was 100% "skill" based. Not to imply that the cloak is "skill-less", but it is considerably easier to close the gap with a cloak.
I find using our new EQ slot for RE/nanohive combos much more fun and useful than using it for a cloak. It works better with my playstyle.
I personally don't have a huge issue with cloaks. They could use careful tweaking, but irrational nerfs will do more damage than good. This is something the community in general has still not learned.
I'm not saying irrational or knee-jerk nerfs. It's been months. There is nothing knee jerk about this. I don't know what needs to be done? The only thing I suggested about cloaks was cutting the cloak time in half.
How often do you run a Medium DS with an AR and get into the top five in the SP of the match? Who can do this anymore? I'm sure some badasses can, but the above average player? the average player? |
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1421
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
TIMMY DAVIS wrote:
Then there is the lack of skill required in using a rail rifle. I setup two fittings - identical except for the weapon - standard rail rifle and standard combat rifle. My kill ratio for rail rifle was/is easily 3x higher than with the combat rifle.
All that really proves is that you are better with the RR. The RR has a much lower RoF a lower DPS and only a slightly better range than the CR leaving the CR as the more powerful weapon in a vast majority of situations. Only in the 95 m plus ranges is the RR the better gun. Glad you finally found a weapon that suits your play style.
Fun > Realism
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echo47
Minmatar Republic
265
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
I dont really gave a problem with cloaks and shotguns. But several of you state, which is true, a cloak is not needed for a scout to flank and get behind the enemy, If that is the case why is it even in the game.
The cloak is just an easy way for scouts to recover from mistakes. There is not a game, the is complex enough to warrant the cloak. It is really just a way to make scouting easier. A gimmick.
I would rather look bad and win, than look good and lose.
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DozersMouse XIII
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
560
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Posted - 2014.05.01 02:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DozersMouse XIII wrote:you need a squad No, he doesn't. I do fairly well solo. He needs to figure out how to choose his fights. If you see certain corps stacked on the opposite team, leave. If you're not having fun, leave. Joined a late match on the losing side? Leave. It's not that hard. I do it all the time. true
you can leave but how will that ever make him a better player?
I agree on leaving a battle thats half over and scottie decided you needed to be there
if I see a stacked team of good players I go for it
playing better players is one of the best ways to make yourself better
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2014.05.01 03:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:TIMMY DAVIS wrote:
Then there is the lack of skill required in using a rail rifle. I setup two fittings - identical except for the weapon - standard rail rifle and standard combat rifle. My kill ratio for rail rifle was/is easily 3x higher than with the combat rifle.
All that really proves is that you are better with the RR. The RR has a much lower RoF a lower DPS and only a slightly better range than the CR leaving the CR as the more powerful weapon in a vast majority of situations. Only in the 95 m plus ranges is the RR the better gun. Glad you finally found a weapon that suits your play style.
As I neglected to include all of the info I used to compare the two weapons, your surface level analysis might be correct. I do not agree with your analysis though, based on my larger level of info.
Thank you for the comment though. |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
1029
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Posted - 2014.05.01 03:18:00 -
[45] - Quote
Just because you never saw them doesn't mean they had a cloak. It's ridiculous how easy it is to sneak up on some one in a scout suit. A lot of it is every other suits **** poor passive scanners, but more of it is just people not taking the time to turn around and check. I made it a point to not use a scanner in 1.7 so that I would actually be forced to be aware of the battlefield around me. Not saying I see every scout or anything like that but turning around has saved me many a times. 90% of my time in a scout suit I either have uplinks for the start of the match or nano's and RE's for anti-tanking. Sure I might just appear out of nowhere behind you, but it's because I took a circuitous route and I made sure I was never where you looked. Would be interesting if the death screen showed if a cloak was fitted or not though.
Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you!
Henchmen21: Infantry
Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1423
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Posted - 2014.05.01 03:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
TIMMY DAVIS wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:TIMMY DAVIS wrote:
Then there is the lack of skill required in using a rail rifle. I setup two fittings - identical except for the weapon - standard rail rifle and standard combat rifle. My kill ratio for rail rifle was/is easily 3x higher than with the combat rifle.
All that really proves is that you are better with the RR. The RR has a much lower RoF a lower DPS and only a slightly better range than the CR leaving the CR as the more powerful weapon in a vast majority of situations. Only in the 95 m plus ranges is the RR the better gun. Glad you finally found a weapon that suits your play style. As I neglected to include all of the info I used to compare the two weapons, your surface level analysis might be correct. I do not agree with your analysis though, based on my larger level of info. Thank you for the comment though.
What larger level of info? My argument is based upon the actual stats of the weapons, almost two years of experience as well as testing both weapons on alts with created to only skill into the two weapons (so there were no other supporting skills clouding my observations). How does your own hugely unquantified and completely subjective opinion even come close to countering what I have posted? What "larger level of info" do you have that I and the rest of the DUST514 community don't have access too?
Fun > Realism
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Free Beers
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2452
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Posted - 2014.05.01 03:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
CCP has a long track record of making gimmicks and not balance. A tracking shooter or high time too kill requires more skill then a "see first, shoot first, kill first" COD is what dust should be. The problem is ccp they like gimmicks like like cloaky shotgun scouts that can run 11 m/s and jump, decloak, 2 shot most suits before it even lands on the ground. I should know my scout alt i have gotten 10+ kdr 3 weeks straight doing it.
The only thing i can say is that right now the only thing that can counter the mass of heavies is mass of scouts. So its a broken system once again
Every mercs life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and died that distinguishes one from another
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TIMMY DAVIS
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2014.05.01 17:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:TIMMY DAVIS wrote:Mobius Kaethis wrote:TIMMY DAVIS wrote:
Then there is the lack of skill required in using a rail rifle. I setup two fittings - identical except for the weapon - standard rail rifle and standard combat rifle. My kill ratio for rail rifle was/is easily 3x higher than with the combat rifle.
All that really proves is that you are better with the RR. The RR has a much lower RoF a lower DPS and only a slightly better range than the CR leaving the CR as the more powerful weapon in a vast majority of situations. Only in the 95 m plus ranges is the RR the better gun. Glad you finally found a weapon that suits your play style. As I neglected to include all of the info I used to compare the two weapons, your surface level analysis might be correct. I do not agree with your analysis though, based on my larger level of info. Thank you for the comment though. What larger level of info? My argument is based upon the actual stats of the weapons, almost two years of experience as well as testing both weapons on alts with created to only skill into the two weapons (so there were no other supporting skills clouding my observations). How does your own hugely unquantified and completely subjective opinion even come close to countering what I have posted? What "larger level of info" do you have that I and the rest of the DUST514 community don't have access too?
I apologize for hurting your feelings. I will refrain from commenting on anything, in the forums, you say from now on.
Have a nice day.
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Hansei Kaizen
The Jackson Five
164
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Posted - 2014.05.01 17:44:00 -
[49] - Quote
Shion Typhon wrote:Eruditus 920 wrote:OP,
I bet you are of the generation that got a trophy for last place too, am I right?
Find something to counter your problems with. The game offers a plethora of choices all designed to give you the ability to counter.
Pity that as a newbie you won't have the SP to equip those counters until you grind for 6 months.
SO TRUE!
The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always.
NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
Casual solo
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knight of 6
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1841
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Posted - 2014.05.01 18:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Quote:How many people have been shot in the back or side from a Shotgun? This requires no skill from the player only a cloak.
well of course you're gonna get shot in the back or side, the shotgun sucks! cloak is the only thing that makes it anywhere near useable and even then if your enemy is facing you you're pretty much dead cloak or otherwise.
"I speak for the trees!"
Ko6 scout,
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Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
516
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Posted - 2014.05.01 18:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Matticus Monk wrote:I tried brick-tanking a cloaked shotgun scout. I died a lot.
Guess these dudes got more skill than me.
I do it too. But I got a fit with mostly BPO-modules, suit and shotgun.
The only parts I actually pay for are the cloak, a damage mod and remotes. (roughly 7000 isk in total)
So I don't really care about dying a lot (which I do occasionally), because I turn a tidy profit every single match isk-wise, and earn plenty of skillpoints doing it.
Oh and I also often get to troll people by sneaking up in their midst and kill them with a remote explosive. |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
747
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Posted - 2014.05.01 18:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
I will agree that the NPE needs significant improvement as for the rest I may not like it but the tactic is valid because it is effective.
You do not have to be crazy to play here but we are willing to train you.
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Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
516
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Posted - 2014.05.01 18:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
I'll agree with the OP to a certain extent. That it requires significantly less skill to cloak up and shoot someone in the back, than it does to be constantly aware of cloaked scouts running in your vicinity. This is an imbalance that really needs to be adressed. |
Smooth Assassin
Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME
1395
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Posted - 2014.05.01 18:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Awkwardly slow with armor plates on my scout... you see so little brick tankers there nowadays but they're still out there.
Assassination is my thing.
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Duke Noobiam
S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance
92
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Posted - 2014.05.01 19:01:00 -
[55] - Quote
My only beef with cloaks, is that users should have to fully uncloak (and have the sound effect completed) before they can get a shot off.
This simple change/fix would go a long way to balancing the cloak.
Something else they could do is to remove the reticule/dot you see when cloaked. This would make it harder to line up head-shots while cloaked.
How do you kill that which has no life?
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1547
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Posted - 2014.05.01 19:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
GIT GUD BRO, SOME TACTICS R JUST SUPPOSED TO BE BETAR ^^^^^^^^^^^^Average Forum users reaction |
RYN0CER0S
Rise Of Old Dudes
80
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Posted - 2014.05.01 19:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
What qualifies as a worthy, skilled kill? Apparently, you're only OK with dying to an Assault suit with a rifle running directly at you.
Too much CoD has warped your sense of diversity. Stick around, we'll teach the ways of customization where it counts.
The guy from the Hamburger train.
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Asha Starwind
857
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Posted - 2014.05.01 19:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:Vin Vicious wrote:Cotsy wrote:I read the first sentence and laughed, if someone with a cloak is able to sneak up behind you and shotgun you in the back... Hmmm, yea, thats sort of the point. He wouldn't have needed the cloak to do so.
You say its poor gameplay, but in fact its pure skill to sneak up behind someone and kill them. It takes strategy, positioning, awareness, anticipation, and of course map knowledge to do so. You sir, by getting killed from behind demonstrate the lack of skill and awareness and then poor sportsmanship by complaining about it.
You seem to criticize the cloak for aiding him, but for a cloak to matter you would have had to had a chance to view him, and in the case where a scout sneaks up behind you.. Well you sir would not have seen him and therefore its a skillful play. Cloaks have serious problem, but you fail to make a valid point about their use in this case.
Not even gonna bother criticizing the rest, but the goal of a scout should be the attacking from behind. If you can't understand that, i don't see how addressing the other issues matters. P.s this is possibly the dumbest defense of cloak shottys I've ever seen He does have a point, though. Assuming he's using a medium frame, he would not have seen a scout running behind him on his radar, nor would he on his frontal view (obviously). This enables the scouts to place a shot or two behind their target. What the cloak does, is give a broken amount of dampning to your dB so you can hide from scanners fairly easily. As for hiding from your eyes, well, that's a different story. I'll say that the medium was moving for example's sake. If the Scout was moving IN FRONT of the medium, there might've been a chance of the medium spotting him, but losing track if the Scout goes behind an object, rendering him out of sight. The medium would not know where the Scout would come out of next. Now, if the Scout was standing still, chances are very slim that the medium would spot him. You need to be very focused and have a good enough television to notice the difference between the background and the invisibility shroud. Point is, if the Scout stayed out of sight and shot him in the back, that meant he knew how to get there and how to avoid detection with or without cloak.
........buuuuuuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttttttttt there is a very high chance that isn't how it played out. Half of the scouts exercise very little caution when moving around the map run into just cloak up and stand still where they would otherwise be fully visible and just wait for peeps to walk past them or face away from them. I really don't have a problem with the tactic itself but at the fact that the cloaker can begin firing before they even fully de-cloak is what bothers me, at the same time giving the victims little to no warning e.g. decloaking audio cue that sometimes plays is pointless because the person decloaking has already remove half or more of your total health or has just outright killed you. An audio tell does wonders for the dead.
Mad Bomber - 50% less profile
Return dumbfire to Swarms
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2Berries
Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance
126
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Posted - 2014.05.01 20:46:00 -
[59] - Quote
negative49er wrote:I hate that people are using the shotgun now I been shotgunning back at when uprising came out and there were a few shotgunner back then, but now they are made me hate my favorite weapon This.
I got really into scouting the last 3 months of 1.7, now the adrenaline rush of shotty scout is replaced by shame since everyone & their alt has a cloaked shotty scout fit.
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SHEPARDS ABONERBOMB
Commando Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.01 21:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
[/quote] Alright. Newbie, how do you deal with Triple-repped Madrugars, LAV-Heavies, Redline Snipers?
If the counter is the same thing as the thing you are attempting to counter, it doesn't count. Also, if your counter requires more than 1 person, it doesn't count.[/quote]
Triple rep maddy gets hit by a jihad jeep and goes boom... Lav heavies get killed by well placed proxy mines and redline snipers get killed by a well placed orbital. |
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