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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1669
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hear this quite too often when it comes to balance against vehicles, especially tanks.
Now, I must agree that CCP couldn't have dumbed down vehicles any more than they have already.
However, instead of buffing AV and/or nerfing vehicles (tanks in particular), why not add an extra dimension towards tanking and vehicles in general?
Why not give them capacitors that must be managed carefully? I won't go into any details here because there've been loads of threads discussing capacitors already.
I've heard from some people say that capacitors will make vehicles too hard and unmanageable; I disagree with those people. I think that that must be exactly what we need: adding an extra dimension to think about to make tanks and vehicles in general harder to use (and more rewarding) without buffing/nerfing anything.
What do you all think about this?
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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P14GU3
The Southern Legion Final Resolution.
601
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think reps need nerfed and we are in a good spot. I would love to see cap introduced, but thats anithe overhaul i dont trust ccp to do right. So instead of another-nother round of nerf/buff. Why not just fix reps?
Yeah, i run an Amarr logi with a mass driver.. what are YOU going to do about it?
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1289
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vehicles are easy mode.
Crush them
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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1669
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Vehicles are easy mode. Thank you for your input. It will be greatly used to further enhance this discussion.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2078
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Told you, we couldn't handle it.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Khan Hun
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I don't see the point of adding capacitor management to vehicles, if the goal is to make them more balanced... why not just buff AV? That way instead of making vehicles more complex you make an entirely new role and style of play viable.
Currently tanks and drop ships are massively overpowered. They cost some isk to run and require SPs and some skill, once you have those one person can dominate an entire game of 24 people, hitting 35-0 or something stupid, while 4-5 people on the other team run around with pitifully underpowered swarm launchers getting blasted by infantry because they don't have a main anti personal weapon or pummelled into the ground by dropship missiles or a tank blaster.
Any move to make vehicles more (player) skill based, skill point intensive or more isk expensive, but keeping their dominance and near-immunity to anything but 2-3 people decked out in full proto AV will just make it worse, allowing some people effectively be a one -man-army because they have the isk, skill or SPs to do it.
Instead... vehicles need to be balanced to the point even with the skill points invested and a big ISK cost, you still stand a decent chance of getting killed and loosing that vehicle- the same as any infantry role in the game currently. |
Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1669
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 15:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Told you, we couldn't handle it. And who's "we"? I don't believe you can speak for anyone other than yourself.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Alpha 443-6732
0uter.Heaven Academy
481
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I hear this quite too often when it comes to balance against vehicles, especially tanks.
Now, I must agree that CCP couldn't have dumbed down vehicles any more than they have already.
However, instead of buffing AV and/or nerfing vehicles (tanks in particular), why not add an extra dimension towards tanking and vehicles in general?
Why not give them capacitors that must be managed carefully? I won't go into any details here because there've been loads of threads discussing capacitors already.
I've heard from some people say that capacitors will make vehicles too hard and unmanageable; I disagree with those people. I think that that must be exactly what we need: adding an extra dimension to think about to make tanks and vehicles in general harder to use (and more rewarding) without buffing/nerfing anything.
What do you all think about this?
They really should've just kept vehicles the way they were before, instead just adjusting modules and AV until they found a sweet spot.
I have a feeling they fucked up so horribly, they won't be able to go back. Though there were some good ideas like the new missiles , small rails and the new shield tanking design, almost everything else other than that is a step down from 1.6 and especially chrome. |
Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2080
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 15:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Harpyja wrote:I hear this quite too often when it comes to balance against vehicles, especially tanks.
Now, I must agree that CCP couldn't have dumbed down vehicles any more than they have already.
However, instead of buffing AV and/or nerfing vehicles (tanks in particular), why not add an extra dimension towards tanking and vehicles in general?
Why not give them capacitors that must be managed carefully? I won't go into any details here because there've been loads of threads discussing capacitors already.
I've heard from some people say that capacitors will make vehicles too hard and unmanageable; I disagree with those people. I think that that must be exactly what we need: adding an extra dimension to think about to make tanks and vehicles in general harder to use (and more rewarding) without buffing/nerfing anything.
What do you all think about this? They really should've just kept vehicles the way they were before, instead just adjusting modules and AV until they found a sweet spot. I have a feeling they fuc ked up so horribly, they won't be able to go back. Though there were some good ideas like the new missiles , small rails and the new shield tanking design, almost everything else other than that is a step down from 1.6 and especially chrome.
My point in making this, well, as well as adding **** too
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Harpyja
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1673
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Khan Hun wrote: I don't see the point of adding capacitor management to vehicles, if the goal is to make them more balanced... why not just buff AV? That way instead of making vehicles more complex you make an entirely new role and style of play viable.
Currently tanks and drop ships are massively overpowered. They cost some isk to run and require SPs and some skill, once you have those one person can dominate an entire game of 24 people, hitting 35-0 or something stupid, while 4-5 people on the other team run around with pitifully underpowered swarm launchers getting blasted by infantry because they don't have a main anti personal weapon or pummelled into the ground by dropship missiles or a tank blaster.
Any move to make vehicles more (player) skill based, skill point intensive or more isk expensive, but keeping their dominance and near-immunity to anything but 2-3 people decked out in full proto AV will just make it worse, allowing some people effectively be a one -man-army because they have the isk, skill or SPs to do it.
Instead... vehicles need to be balanced to the point even with the skill points invested and a big ISK cost, you still stand a decent chance of getting killed and loosing that vehicle- the same as any infantry role in the game currently.
The point of capacitor management is to require more personal skill to be at play than just ISK or SP (though currently you need almost none of either for a rather decent militia fit Soma/Sica).
Of course there will always be those "one man armies." Even if a game is fully balanced, there will always be a small minority that are exceptionally well with a certain weapon or "loadout". I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a small minority that is exceptionally well with something.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
13152
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Posted - 2014.04.27 15:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
My wallet disagrees :/
My Music Videos & Fan Fiction
Incubus, Gallente Proud
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 16:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire
69
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Posted - 2014.04.27 16:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'd rather that we just tier vehicles with AV.
Neither AV or vehicles will be balanced when there is only one tier of vehicles, and three of AV. There can never be an equilibrium...
OR
We can remove tiers completely, and follow the Eve system, which uses Basic, Tier 1, and Tier 2 assets. Others have suggested we do this with infantry, which holds promise of greater promise than Basic, STD, ADV, and PRO.
You can argue that vehicles are already tiered with modules being tiered, but that just doesn't work. The vehicles itself can never perform better than another tank or militia, and never better against AV. The "waves of opportunity" philosophy doesn't work, it sounds nice in balance, but in practice has not worked, and is ineffective.
With only one tier of vehicles, they either have to be excessively overpowered, or excessively underpowered. There isn't a magical way to achieve balance when one side or the other has to be gimped.
I hate the performance of my Incubus, but if this is only the STD varient of it, then I'm fine with that. But it would need to be cheaper. At most 250,000isk. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
3490
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
You mean this hard mode?
Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors Part 2: Armor & Shield Part 3: Modules & Skills Part 4: Vehicles Part 5: Overview
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2045
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 16:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:I think reps need nerfed and we are in a good spot. That boils down to "I can't solo tanks with my ADV AV so make them rep slower so it's easier for me."
That's the entirety of the argument.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Khan Hun
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2014.04.27 16:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harpyja wrote: Of course there will always be those "one man armies." Even if a game is fully balanced, there will always be a small minority that are exceptionally well with a certain weapon or "loadout". I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a small minority that is exceptionally well with something.
It depends on the load out or 'thing', as things stand more and more people are and will continue to skill into tanks and assault drop ships because of how amazingly good they are. Eventually games will start and everyone will spam calling in their 'win wagon' of choice until the cap is reached for each team.
On the other hand, people that are one man armies on the score board playing as infantry are mostly part of a squad, they are often heavy and logi combos, tough as hell and with big scores.
1) They are working as a team 2) A war barge strike, set of REs or couple of good head shots will still kill them.
The only realistic counter to the one man army assault drop ship is, well I don't know. Nothing I can use and I have 25million SPs.
I've played 4 games today, 2 of those games were completely dominated by assault drop ships. One person almost single handedly winning the game for their team.
When was the last time a full proto AV infantry player was a 'one man army' and laid waste to and stopped all the vehicles on the other team being effective...
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
13152
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Posted - 2014.04.27 16:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc
My Music Videos & Fan Fiction
Incubus, Gallente Proud
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
2046
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 16:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:I'd rather that we just tier vehicles with AV.
Neither AV or vehicles will be balanced when there is only one tier of vehicles, and three of AV. There can never be an equilibrium...
OR
We can remove tiers completely, and follow the Eve system, which uses Basic, Tier 1, and Tier 2 assets. Others have suggested we do this with infantry, which holds promise of greater promise than Basic, STD, ADV, and PRO.
You can argue that vehicles are already tiered with modules being tiered, but that just doesn't work. The vehicles itself can never perform better than another tank or militia, and never better against AV. The "waves of opportunity" philosophy doesn't work, it sounds nice in balance, but in practice has not worked, and is ineffective.
With only one tier of vehicles, they either have to be excessively overpowered, or excessively underpowered. There isn't a magical way to achieve balance when one side or the other has to be gimped.
I hate the performance of my Incubus, but if this is only the STD varient of it, then I'm fine with that. But it would need to be cheaper. At most 250,000isk. What? That thing can fly circles around a Viper and Myron.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 16:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc LOL, so are we really going to list the things that we are invulnerable to? Because if so you are going to lose by a landslide.
I swear tankers are about the dumbest people to ever walk the earth.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1461
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Because my passive tanked Python will get infinite afterburners! I approve this!
Me in my ADS: 1,2
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Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc
ISK cost should not be a substitute for player skill.
Just because one player spends 500k+ should not mean that it should take a quarter of the other team's players to take him out.
If it only takes one player to operate a vehicle, then one player should be at least CAPABLE of destroying that vehicle.
Otherwise, you throw game balance out the window and might as well just hand the win to whoever's wearing the most expensive suit. |
Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
75
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:P14GU3 wrote:I think reps need nerfed and we are in a good spot. That boils down to "I can't solo tanks with my ADV AV so make them rep slower so it's easier for me." That's the entirety of the argument.
Not entirely, unless you add "... vesus I don't want my easy mode taken away, because I lack the skill to succeed in a fair fight"
There are two sides to every argument, after all. |
Sad Heavy
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc LOL, so are we really going to list the things that we are invulnerable to? Because if so you are going to lose by a landslide. I swear tankers are about the dumbest people to ever walk the earth. DUST Fiend is an Incubus pilot
Scrubby Python Pilot, Corp Chat Troll, Elite Scrub, Caldari Loyalist
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
560
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc LOL, so are we really going to list the things that we are invulnerable to? Because if so you are going to lose by a landslide. I swear tankers are about the dumbest people to ever walk the earth. DUST Fiend is an Incubus pilot That doesn't make what he is saying any less ********.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
2642
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Don't worry guys, CCP is on the case.
Cap management will therefore play a vital role in the new game just as it does in the old. |
Zirzo Valcyn
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
493
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:39:00 -
[26] - Quote
Khan Hun wrote:[quote=Harpyja] Of course there will always be those "one man armies." Even if a game is fully balanced, there will always be a small minority that are exceptionally well with a certain weapon or "loadout". I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a small minority that is exceptionally well with something.
2) A war barge strike, set of REs
right and more that takes soooo much more skill than vehicles do
u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll.
forum warrior .189
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
991
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nothing in this game takes skill and adding capacitors to vehicles won't change that. All people will do is pull back when it starts to get low.
Support Orbital Spawns
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Sad Heavy
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc LOL, so are we really going to list the things that we are invulnerable to? Because if so you are going to lose by a landslide. I swear tankers are about the dumbest people to ever walk the earth. DUST Fiend is an Incubus pilot That doesn't make what he is saying any less ********. How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
Scrubby Python Pilot, Corp Chat Troll, Elite Scrub, Caldari Loyalist
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Sad Heavy
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Nothing in this game takes skill and adding capacitors to vehicles won't change that. All people will do is pull back when it starts to get low. Nothing takes skill? Have you tried to master flight?
Scrubby Python Pilot, Corp Chat Troll, Elite Scrub, Caldari Loyalist
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
991
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 17:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sad Heavy wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Nothing in this game takes skill and adding capacitors to vehicles won't change that. All people will do is pull back when it starts to get low. Nothing takes skill? Have you tried to master flight? Yes, I've done everything this game offers.
Support Orbital Spawns
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
563
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sad Heavy wrote: How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
No it isn't.
If you think it is, you are just as stupid as he is.
Do you know what the "have you ever driven/flown/used/whatever" is? It is a bullshit statement almost always made by someone who is afraid of losing their iwinbutton.
You are wrong, he is wrong, and if you both even come close to believe that line of crap you are just incredibly stupid.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2088
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Told you, we couldn't handle it. And who's "we"? I don't believe you can speak for anyone other than yourself.
we as in mostly everyone. You'd have to be insanely good at micromanaging **** to be able to do all of those things, especially while in combat.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2088
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:I'd rather that we just tier vehicles with AV.
Neither AV or vehicles will be balanced when there is only one tier of vehicles, and three of AV. There can never be an equilibrium...
OR
We can remove tiers completely, and follow the Eve system, which uses Basic, Tier 1, and Tier 2 assets. Others have suggested we do this with infantry, which holds promise of greater promise than Basic, STD, ADV, and PRO.
You can argue that vehicles are already tiered with modules being tiered, but that just doesn't work. The vehicles itself can never perform better than another tank or militia, and never better against AV. The "waves of opportunity" philosophy doesn't work, it sounds nice in balance, but in practice has not worked, and is ineffective.
With only one tier of vehicles, they either have to be excessively overpowered, or excessively underpowered. There isn't a magical way to achieve balance when one side or the other has to be gimped.
I hate the performance of my Incubus, but if this is only the STD varient of it, then I'm fine with that. But it would need to be cheaper. At most 250,000isk.
I like this guy......
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
2088
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
Mojo XXXIII wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc ISK cost should not be a substitute for player skill. Just because one player spends 500k+ should not mean that it should take a quarter of the other team's players to take him out. If it only takes one player to operate a vehicle, then one player should be at least CAPABLE of destroying that vehicle. Otherwise, you throw game balance out the window and might as well just hand the win to whoever's wearing the most expensive suit.
1: you read that wrong. read it again.
2: This isn't a binary system, nor does a binary system ever works.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Sad Heavy
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
77
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote: How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
No it isn't. If you think it is, you are just as stupid as he is. Do you know what the "have you ever driven/flown/used/whatever" is? It is a bullshit statement almost always made by someone who is afraid of losing their iwinbutton. You are wrong, he is wrong, and if you both even come close to believe that line of crap you are just incredibly stupid. So you haven't ever flown one. I don't want to hear your bias statement as to how all vehicles are easy mode.
Scrubby Python Pilot, Corp Chat Troll, Elite Scrub, Caldari Loyalist
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Rusty Shallows
1660
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Khan Hun wrote:Harpyja wrote: Of course there will always be those "one man armies." Even if a game is fully balanced, there will always be a small minority that are exceptionally well with a certain weapon or "loadout". I think it's perfectly acceptable to have a small minority that is exceptionally well with something.
It depends on the load out or 'thing', as things stand more and more people are and will continue to skill into tanks and assault drop ships because of how amazingly good they are. Eventually games will start and everyone will spam calling in their 'win wagon' of choice until the cap is reached for each team. snip Uprising 1.7 pretty much set the tone of this being a vehicle centered game with an infantry side option. If that was their goal CCP need to seriously adjust the SP requirements and such so people can figure it out easier.
As for the original post. I would prefer if CCP openly told us what their goals are so we know what to expect or discuss. If their aim wasn't to make this a vehicle centered game then adding more complexity will only make any sort of combined forces balance harder to achieve.
Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting.
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
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Mobius Wyvern
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
5057
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I hear this quite too often when it comes to balance against vehicles, especially tanks.
Now, I must agree that CCP couldn't have dumbed down vehicles any more than they have already.
However, instead of buffing AV and/or nerfing vehicles (tanks in particular), why not add an extra dimension towards tanking and vehicles in general?
Why not give them capacitors that must be managed carefully? I won't go into any details here because there've been loads of threads discussing capacitors already.
I've heard from some people say that capacitors will make vehicles too hard and unmanageable; I disagree with those people. I think that that must be exactly what we need: adding an extra dimension to think about to make tanks and vehicles in general harder to use (and more rewarding) without buffing/nerfing anything.
What do you all think about this? YES, FOR GOD'S SAKE ALL THE ******* YESSES IN THE WORLD.
There were quite a few of us trying to present that concept for MONTHS only to get repeatedly shot down by the vehicle users who wanted to maintain the current status quo, and others who accused us of "trying to make Dust like EVE" to benefit ourselves.
I still support the idea of capacitors for vehicles that require good module management, as this would also allow for new AV to be introduced to try and suck energy out of vehicles, which adds a new dynamic to Infantry vs Vehicles.
Thumb Green wrote:Nothing in this game takes skill and adding capacitors to vehicles won't change that. All people will do is pull back when it starts to get low. That's the POINT. That's what vehicles are supposed to do now when their cooldowns kick in, but the current mechanics mean they don't have to.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
563
|
Posted - 2014.04.27 18:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote: How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
No it isn't. If you think it is, you are just as stupid as he is. Do you know what the "have you ever driven/flown/used/whatever" is? It is a bullshit statement almost always made by someone who is afraid of losing their iwinbutton. You are wrong, he is wrong, and if you both even come close to believe that line of crap you are just incredibly stupid. So you haven't ever flown one. I don't want to hear your bias statement as to how all vehicles are easy mode. Thank you for proving how incredibly dim-witted you are. See you just made an assumption, and in doing so you somehow tried to justify a moronic "call to authority" fallacious argument. Whats more is you did not do any research, if you had you would know ALL OF MY SP IS IN CALDARI VEHCILES. This means yes I can and do fly pythons. They are retardedly overpowered.
Now quit being stupid and let the adults talk kid.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Sad Heavy
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
77
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Posted - 2014.04.27 18:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote: How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
No it isn't. If you think it is, you are just as stupid as he is. Do you know what the "have you ever driven/flown/used/whatever" is? It is a bullshit statement almost always made by someone who is afraid of losing their iwinbutton. You are wrong, he is wrong, and if you both even come close to believe that line of crap you are just incredibly stupid. So you haven't ever flown one. I don't want to hear your bias statement as to how all vehicles are easy mode. Thank you for proving how incredibly dim-witted you are. See you just made an assumption, and in doing so you somehow tried to justify a moronic "call to authority" fallacious argument. Whats more is you did not do any research, if you had you would know ALL OF MY SP IS IN CALDARI VEHCILES. This means yes I can and do fly pythons. They are retardedly overpowered. Now quit being stupid and let the adults talk kid. Still you have yet to state how they are overpowered
Scrubby Python Pilot, Corp Chat Troll, Elite Scrub, Caldari Loyalist
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Thumb Green
The Valyrian Guard
992
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Posted - 2014.04.27 18:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Nothing in this game takes skill and adding capacitors to vehicles won't change that. All people will do is pull back when it starts to get low. That's the POINT. That's what vehicles are supposed to do now when their cooldowns kick in, but the current mechanics mean they don't have to. No, his point was that capacitors would add a level of skill to using vehicles but it wouldn't. It doesn't take skill to say "Oh, my capacitor is getting low, better pull back".
Support Orbital Spawns
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Crimson Cerberes
Hammer Of Light Vanguard of the Phoenix
563
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Posted - 2014.04.27 19:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:Sad Heavy wrote: How so, his statement is quite accurate. Have you ever just repeatedly flown an ADS?
No it isn't. If you think it is, you are just as stupid as he is. Do you know what the "have you ever driven/flown/used/whatever" is? It is a bullshit statement almost always made by someone who is afraid of losing their iwinbutton. You are wrong, he is wrong, and if you both even come close to believe that line of crap you are just incredibly stupid. So you haven't ever flown one. I don't want to hear your bias statement as to how all vehicles are easy mode. Thank you for proving how incredibly dim-witted you are. See you just made an assumption, and in doing so you somehow tried to justify a moronic "call to authority" fallacious argument. Whats more is you did not do any research, if you had you would know ALL OF MY SP IS IN CALDARI VEHCILES. This means yes I can and do fly pythons. They are retardedly overpowered. Now quit being stupid and let the adults talk kid. Still you have yet to state how they are overpowered
So, using xt-1 missiles I can insta gib infantry while being 100% invulnerable to them solo. Seriously infantry will always pose 0 threat to me.
My dedicated counter (AV), cannot insta-gib me. Actually unless you are using prototype AV, you will never kill me. Sure I might run away for 5 seconds, but you don't kill me, something I do to infantry en masse. Oh and some forms of my dedicated counter (REs, AV Grenades, PLCs) i am more or less safe from. I can outrun another of my dedicated counter (swarms) with ease. Also it is childs play for me to stay out of swarm lock range.
The ONLY effective DEDICATED COUNTER to me is forge guns, and I can 99/100 times kill a forger before they can kill me 1 vs 1.
This is insanely overpowered mouthbreather.
On top of it all, I can recall anywhere on the map... at any time.
"We are not ever going to respec weaponry and dropsuit command because the majority of our Aurum gear falls within those
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2647
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Posted - 2014.04.27 20:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
You have to consider you are catering to an FPS crowd.
Who wants to sit in a tank spending more of their time turning modules on and off then actualy tanking. You also how hard this is to do on the fly, most people won't bother.
Tanks need to be 'easy' to achieve decent performamce with as they are now, however it needs to balanced such that AV is an actual counter,, it requires intricate balance. Not complicity that stops your average Joe from getting into tanking.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Mojo XXXIII
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
79
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Posted - 2014.04.27 20:43:00 -
[43] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Mojo XXXIII wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Crimson Cerberes wrote:spend 80k+, get invulnerability to 75% of all weapons in dust.
Yep, that is easy mode. Spend 500k+, get vulnerability to buildings, gravity, MCCs, MCC Missiles, null cannons, RDVs, rail guns, suicide derps, etc etc ISK cost should not be a substitute for player skill. Just because one player spends 500k+ should not mean that it should take a quarter of the other team's players to take him out. If it only takes one player to operate a vehicle, then one player should be at least CAPABLE of destroying that vehicle. Otherwise, you throw game balance out the window and might as well just hand the win to whoever's wearing the most expensive suit. 1: you read that wrong. read it again. 2: This isn't a binary system, nor does a binary system ever works.
1. You're right, I did. My bad, that was a knee-jerk reaction, based upon the mention of Dropship price and a different discussion (basically I forgot what thread I was posting in)
2. For the record, I wasn't referring to a binary system, but rather a balanced system based upon player skill above all else. Let's face it, right now the most effective counter to HAVs are Jihad LAVs, and the biggest threat to Dropships is pilot error, and that's not right or balanced. |
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