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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.18 23:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
So now update 1.8 is out and with it we now have heavy suits for all the races. All I can say to that is it is about time. That aside I move to my point for this thread.
Amarr and Gallente heavies have the benefit of logistic armor repair. Caldari and Minmatar on the other hand do not as it is far less effective on them as they do not have the room to bolster their armor for survivability. at the proto level a Caldari sentinel has 4 high slots and 1 low slot. a Minmatar has 3 high slots and two low slots. both of these set ups make both the Caldari and the Minmatar a primary shield tanker. where as the Amarr and the Gallente are primary armor tankers. logistical support at this time favors the armor tanker and leaves the shield tankers hung out to dry forcing anyone who plays them to run with no logistical support.
My suggestion is to add in a new logistic equipment tool that will repair shields like an armor repair tool does to armor. this will help balance the game and take away the favor CCP has for armor based suits and vehicles. i might even go as far as also requesting that passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles be set up like passive shield. where a set time must pass without taking damage past a threshold to begin its passive repair. and to also make armor repair modules for vehicles active like shield boosters currently are.
These are my suggestions to further balance this game i have come to love. If any has a better idea, a reason why this would not help, or are in support of this idea please feel free to comment.
Thanks for your time.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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BFT CDWIII
Ultramarine Corp
5
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Posted - 2014.04.18 23:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kelbec Illidarie wrote:So now update 1.8 is out and with it we now have heavy suits for all the races. All I can say to that is it is about time. That aside I move to my point for this thread.
Amarr and Gallente heavies have the benefit of logistic armor repair. Caldari and Minmatar on the other hand do not as it is far less effective on them as they do not have the room to bolster their armor for survivability. at the proto level a Caldari sentinel has 4 high slots and 1 low slot. a Minmatar has 3 high slots and two low slots. both of these set ups make both the Caldari and the Minmatar a primary shield tanker. where as the Amarr and the Gallente are primary armor tankers. logistical support at this time favors the armor tanker and leaves the shield tankers hung out to dry forcing anyone who plays them to run with no logistical support.
My suggestion is to add in a new logistic equipment tool that will repair shields like an armor repair tool does to armor. this will help balance the game and take away the favor CCP has for armor based suits and vehicles. i might even go as far as also requesting that passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles be set up like passive shield. where a set time must pass without taking damage past a threshold to begin its passive repair. and to also make armor repair modules for vehicles active like shield boosters currently are.
These are my suggestions to further balance this game i have come to love. If any has a better idea, a reason why this would not help, or are in support of this idea please feel free to comment.
Thanks for your time.
Would be nice but it can not be on par with the armor rep tool maybe a hybrid reptool that reps both at a lower rate 30 shield 40 armor 35 CPU 8 PG
Mlita gear for the win
Cheaper gear for the win
Fitting/Skill advisor any questions please ask
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.19 01:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
BFT CDWIII wrote:
Would be nice but it can not be on par with the armor rep tool maybe a hybrid rep tool that reps both at a lower rate 30 shield 40 armor 35 CPU 8 PG
Where i can understand what your wanting i dont see many people if anyone using it at all. by having shield or armor rep tool it will force a logi to better coordinate with his/her squad to get the most amount of benefit. like in eve online you can not just bring a logi ship to a fleet and expect it to be of any use. if your fleet is all shield based and you bring an armor logi ship you do them no good.
for a rep tool to be of any use there must be enough hp of that type to repair. if not your target may die before your rep tool can cycle again. your target has 1000 armor hp your rep tool heals 88 per second, and your target is taking 130 dmg a second. your rep tool will keep him alive long enough to either kill the guy shooting him or retreat behind cover to be repaired to full armor hp. if your target has 300 armor hp your reping 88 a second and he is taking 130 dmg. if your target is thinking he will go for cover right away and you have zero chance of getting guardian points because he can not take the beating even with your help.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.04.19 01:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
+1 I would like to se equipment for all races like the weapons. Caldari reptool for shields Minmatar reptool for shield60% and armor40% Amarr reptool for shield40% and armor60% Gallente reptool for armor
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
0
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Posted - 2014.04.19 01:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:+1 I would like to se equipment for all races like the weapons. Caldari reptool for shields Minmatar reptool for shield60% and armor40% Amarr reptool for shield40% and armor60% Gallente reptool for armor
like on your comment. thank you.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
2
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Posted - 2014.04.19 07:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
hmm... i would have figured this topic would have caught a little more attention then it has. dont be shy. please comment.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
2348
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Posted - 2014.04.19 08:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Caldari are slow moving with big buffers just like Amarr.
Give us a nano-hive like shield booster equipment. You put it on the ground and it boost your shield by a % value as long as you stand in it.
HTFU Gë£ Live with CCP´s mistakes.
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
89
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Posted - 2014.04.19 14:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Caldari are slow moving with big buffers just like Amarr.
Give us a nano-hive like shield booster equipment. You put it on the ground and it boost your shield by a % value as long as you stand in it.
Yes I'm all about racial equipment. nano-hives included. Like the rep tools i was saying previously.
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
171
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Posted - 2014.04.19 15:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hybrid Repair Tool : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=143124
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
171
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Posted - 2014.04.19 15:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hybrid Nanite Injectors : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=143129
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
6
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Posted - 2014.04.21 07:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
you cant just add a hybrid tool. there has to be one dedicated to shields. i am not opposed to a hybrid tool just saying that there must also be a counterpart to the armor tool. so you will ahve one just for shileds and one just for armor. i would also make shields rep hives too.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Rogan Berris
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.04.21 10:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
i have to agree. being a caldari commando i would love to be able to have someone support mewith a shield repper instead of having to hit and run like the frail minmatar and their duct tape suits/ships... =P |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
98
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Posted - 2014.04.21 15:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
As much as I love the idea of being able to shield rep my heavies, this idea risks diminishing the distinction between shields and armor. Balance is good; balancing at the cost of variety isn't. You don't want shields and armor to be too similar.
I'd suggest a Shield transfer or capacitor instead of a rep tool. Tapping the trigger (or aiming down sights) switches between "absorb target's shields" and "refilling target's shields." Holding the trigger on a target either sucks up their shields (whether they're friendly or hostile) or adds to their shields, but not like an armor rep tool with infinite nanites. It can only repair as much shield power as its previously absorbed. The rate at which it absorbs or discharges shield power could slow as its capacitor fills or discharges.
Equipment: Shield transfer tool Stats for militia/basic/advanced/proto
Capacity: 600/800/1200/1600 +5% per level of Shield Capacitor tool skill. Range: 15m/15m/17m/20m +5% per level of Shield capacitor focus skill Price: 2k/5k/10k/20k
Shield absorption rate: 0-25% of its capacity in 4 seconds, 26%-50% in 8 seconds, 51%-75% in 16 seconds, and 76% to 100% in 32 seconds.
Shield discharge rate: 100% -76% of its capacity in 2 seconds, 75%-51% in 4 seconds, 50%-26% in 8 seconds, and 25%-0% in 16 seconds.
At proto levels a logi could charge up his tool fully in about a minute, discharge it fully in about 30 seconds. The initial absorption rate is so high that it makes friendly targets vulnerable while the tool is filling up. A completely filled shield transfer capacitor though, can rep a heavy's shields at nearly 250 shields per second, for two seconds, then 125 shields per second for four seconds, then 75 shields/sec for 8 seconds, and 37.5 shields/sec for 16 seconds, at which point its depleted until it absorbs more shields.
Potentially interesting side effects: A nearly depleted shield transfer tool might be more useful draining enemy shields, than repairing friendly shields. If a tool is absorbing shields from a target when that target gets hit with a flux grenade, the energy of the flux grenade could be absorbed by the transfer tool, potentially filling it, or over filling it, resulting in overheating/seizing for a little while. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
263
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Posted - 2014.04.21 19:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
BFT CDWIII wrote:Kelbec Illidarie wrote:So now update 1.8 is out and with it we now have heavy suits for all the races. All I can say to that is it is about time. That aside I move to my point for this thread.
Amarr and Gallente heavies have the benefit of logistic armor repair. Caldari and Minmatar on the other hand do not as it is far less effective on them as they do not have the room to bolster their armor for survivability. at the proto level a Caldari sentinel has 4 high slots and 1 low slot. a Minmatar has 3 high slots and two low slots. both of these set ups make both the Caldari and the Minmatar a primary shield tanker. where as the Amarr and the Gallente are primary armor tankers. logistical support at this time favors the armor tanker and leaves the shield tankers hung out to dry forcing anyone who plays them to run with no logistical support.
My suggestion is to add in a new logistic equipment tool that will repair shields like an armor repair tool does to armor. this will help balance the game and take away the favor CCP has for armor based suits and vehicles. i might even go as far as also requesting that passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles be set up like passive shield. where a set time must pass without taking damage past a threshold to begin its passive repair. and to also make armor repair modules for vehicles active like shield boosters currently are.
These are my suggestions to further balance this game i have come to love. If any has a better idea, a reason why this would not help, or are in support of this idea please feel free to comment.
Thanks for your time.
Would be nice but it can not be on par with the armor rep tool maybe a hybrid reptool that reps both at a lower rate 30 shield 40 armor 35 CPU 8 PG
actually if we got a shield rep tool itd be twice as good as an armor rep since shields are first and only defense for shield tankers in addition to shield tankers having less hp than armor tankers. all shield reps previously in game were way more effective than armor reps |
Skullmiser Vulcansu
The Third Day Galactic Skyfleet Empire
108
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Posted - 2014.04.21 22:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think it's a dumb idea to have a shield repair tool. Shields and armor are different in beautiful ways. Armor plates give more HP than shield extenders at the cost of speed, and they have better methods of active repair, Shields have fantastic regeneration outside of combat.
I like shields as they are now. When I think of a heavy suit with more shields than armor, I think of it as a suit that is used for soloing, because it can regenerate well without a repair tool at the cost of not enjoying sustained battle.
I feel like if there is an active method of restoring shields, then there should be greater passive regeneration of armor, and at that point, you almost might as well just have one pool for hit points.
If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
13
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Posted - 2014.04.22 01:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:As much as I love the idea of being able to shield rep my heavies, this idea risks diminishing the distinction between shields and armor. Balance is good; balancing at the cost of variety isn't. You don't want shields and armor to be too similar.. the difference between shields and armor is the kinds of damage they can resist. just like in eve, if your shield fit against an amarr fleet their thermal damage will destroy the shields. that is just one example. further more by adding in the shield rep tool i would also look into reducing the passive recharge rate and tweeking the shield regulators and other mods that effect recharge delay/amount. i would not however change the values of the extenders as i feel they are well balanced against the armor plates. so to sum up the changes im suggesting
- add shield rep tool - add shield triage nano hive - greatly reduce passive shield repair rate - modify shield modules for suits that effect shield recharge delay/amount - make vehicle armor booster active rather then passive - add time delay with damage thresh hold for passive armor repair for both suits and vehicles
DeathwindRising wrote:actually if we got a shield rep tool itd be twice as good as an armor rep since shields are first and only defense for shield tankers in addition to shield tankers having less hp than armor tankers. all shield reps previously in game were way more effective than armor reps. so your saying less shield hp vs armor hp AND shields being our first and only line of defense is better then more armor hp and having a shield buffer before your massive armor store is even touched is better? i fail to see your logic there. the moment a shield tanked anything looses its shields via dmg or flux leaves them dead to rights the moment anyone gets a bead on them. as it is now a caldari sentinel or commando are killed off easy by one flux and a simple spray of an automatic rifle or side arm.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1301
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Posted - 2014.04.22 05:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
From here.
Malkai Inos wrote:The biggest issue with shield reps is the way they boost eHP for armor tanks aswell.
When you're being armor repaired, chances are, you are already or very soon to be out of shields and into cooldown. This means that the amount of eHP gained through armor reppers before you die is generally bound by your armor buffer+passive repair. This makes armor reps most effective on armor tanks and rightly so.
Conversely, a shield repaired suit gets full benefit of these repairs even if it's actually an armor tank. The repper keeps providing more eHP by adding small amounts of extra shields for the whole time until the all armor is depleted and the suit lost. Thus, hybrid/shield reppers provide equal or increased benefit to hybrid/armor tanks which is exactly backwards to what I assume is their intented effect.
Concerning hybrid reps. It also has to be considered that the two tank paradigms are designed to work differently and their numbers are set accordingly. If you make shields and armor more mechanically similar, you might end up having to make them numerically more similar.
When one paradigm doesn't work that well where it should, the first step should be to tweak some numbers around to better define the strengths and weaknesses of both tank types before changing the way both function on a pretty fundamental level. Remember that shields would gain a function ("can be repaired") they weren't necessarily intended to have* and armor would get, essentially, another type of repper they partially/fully benefit from.
An alternative to shield reps which avoids some of these issues would be a shield resistance boosting module. This gives shield dedicated logibros a way to support shield tanks but without benefiting armor tanks too much along with it as it doesn't circumvent the shields innate dependency on recharge and cooldown the way reps would do.
*On infantry, anyways. The Caldari LLAV had infantry targeting shield reps but both are gone right now and no one knows if they get to keep this particular ability on their return.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2880
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Posted - 2014.04.22 06:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
There is just 1 big problem:
shield transfer tools would kickstart the natural shield regen of the suit. And believe me you dont want a caldari sentinel that could perma regen 100HP/s and on top of that the shield transfer. We are talking here around 150HP/s or even more.
Head of public relations from The Rainbow Effect.
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
14
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Posted - 2014.04.24 22:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Look all your counters to this idea are all based off current or past shield mechanics. in case you didnt notice by instituting the changes i have suggested it would change the shield mechanics all together. so this business of kick starting passive shield repair and the amount are all invalid arguments. also as i said before i wasnt apposed to hybrid reps, how ever i dont feel that they will be used because people will rather a large amount of HP if one source or another based on their greater HP amount. i know i would. and to have both a shield and an armor repper on one heavy would be pointless for squad tactics and for the player doing the armor reps. reason being is that the armor repper will have many of his war points siphoned away by the shield repper even if it is on a gallente suit. even if it might increase the heavies eHP so too would two armor reppers as players already utilize. the better tactic would be to stack the rep that the races favors as it would be far more productive then a hybrid. the only way i see a hybrid being used is if at some point a weapon does both shield and armor damage at the same time.
shields are already weaker then armor in the HP department meaning a gallente heavy armor HP will be greater then a caldari heavy shield HP even at max levels and to top it off their are already armor repair tools and repair hives that the gallente can sit with to boost his eHP where a caldari must run with zero logistical support and never be able to stand toe to toe with his counterpart. as he will have to duck away to recharge his shields and in less then half that time either the armor rep mod or the logi reps will have repped the gallente back to full HP and HIS shields have recharged too...
so again i pose my point for this thread. armor based suits have favor in this game still and it is about time that shield based suits and even vehicles be brought up and balanced.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
15
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Posted - 2014.04.25 20:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
bump
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Samuel Zelik
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
183
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Posted - 2014.04.25 21:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Instead of a shield rep tool variant, I'd rather see an Overshield Tool. Instead of the constant repair to armor the repair tools provide, the Overshield Tool would use pulse to recharge the target suits' system. The Overshield Tool could give a certain percentage or certain value of shielding to the target in the pulse(of course repairing over time is an option, too). After the Overshield Tool is used, there is a cool-down time, similar to that of the Activate Scanner, between pulses in order for the Overshield Tool to regenerate the energy released by the pulse. Another possibly cool feature of the Overshield Tool (using the pulse system) could be a temporary boost to shield regeneration. The Overshield Tool would offer increased percentage, faster cool-down, and/or faster shield regeneration moving up the tiers. As a drawback, the Overshield Tool would require the user to be very close to the target, as well as have a cyclical cool-down.
I was going to use that Installation...
Flashlights: Good because yes.
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Criteria Shipment
Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day
861
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Posted - 2014.04.27 00:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kelbec Illidarie wrote:you cant just add a hybrid tool. there has to be one dedicated to shields. i am not opposed to a hybrid tool just saying that there must also be a counterpart to the armor tool. so you will ahve one just for shileds and one just for armor. i would also make shields rep hives too. I guess they can make a hybrid tool AFTER they make a shield repper. But it would only lack in time it would take for repairs.
I am in favor for a shield repper. We cal heavies get no love, atleast, not yet.
Goodbye, world!
(püú-ÿ+í-ÿ-é)
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
43
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Posted - 2014.04.27 14:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
I completely agree, shield heavies need something to increase survivability but mostly it's about squad tactics, at the moment when i use my caldari sentinel it has good stats etc but i run solo even when i'm surrounded by squadmates, my suits sheilds go and i have to hide my logi cant help then and also has to hide, it helps when use plates in my low slot but only when i already nearly died.
As it stands if i use a regulator then logies can't help at all i only have around 450 armour.
Also to anybody who says about caldari recharge, don't forget they don't start to recharge for a few seconds after we stop being hit it's not specific to shield damage, also an armour heavy can fit armour reps and has passive regen on his shields anyway, our armour has no passive regen.
Then theres actual squad tactics, an armour heavy with a logi bro will get alot of kills and guardian points contributing to obs etc but a sheild heavy wont get those guardian points because it's not worth the risk for a logi.
Also racial fits- if a race relys on sheilds why o why would they only have armour reps? Surely it only makes sense they would develop things to enhance their strengths. That said maybe things will balance out when the next heavy weapons are out but i doubt it.
Big plus one from me
N.b yes it would mean that logies have to think about the squad when fitting out, but surely it's about time we have squad tactics and think things through rather than trying to keep it as a spray and pray game. |
Kigurosaka Laaksonen
DUST University Ivy League
775
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Posted - 2014.04.27 20:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:There is just 1 big problem:
shield transfer tools would kickstart the natural shield regen of the suit. And believe me you dont want a caldari sentinel that could perma regen 100HP/s and on top of that the shield transfer. We are talking here around 150HP/s or even more.
You mean the natural shield regen that doesn't happen while you're being shot?
DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/
EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
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Carter ATHENE
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.04.27 23:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
We need drones
Caldari Logistic Drone
Gives a boost to maximum shielding while active (hovering around you) and also, heals at 5% 15% 25% standard-proto of your repair tool, Or if you're not using a repair tool it has a preset amount.
If you press R2 and hover over the drone Icon, and then let go of it while your cross-hair is over a teammate it will select that target and give them a shield boost equal to 75% of your shield health + your PG. This action will end your drone's hover or bring your drone to an extended cooldown.
This is important because to many time Caldari heavies will loose their shields and it takes forever for them to get it back.
Side note:if drones are implemented into the game this will add another layer of flavor. I already have what the drone would look like if it existed. You know what would be cool if you could get someone to call down a tier 3 supply depot and it has a equipment slot and its equitable with drone swarm which allows mini heavy assault drones (Things unavailable to mercenaries) to hover over nearby players as soon as its captured. They would be considerably smaller than commercial helicopters. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives
352
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Posted - 2014.04.27 23:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:There is just 1 big problem:
shield transfer tools would kickstart the natural shield regen of the suit. And believe me you dont want a caldari sentinel that could perma regen 100HP/s and on top of that the shield transfer. We are talking here around 150HP/s or even more.
You mean, on the level of a Minmatar Logi with a Core Focused Repair tool, or 2 Traige Nanohives dropped by a Caldari Logi? Those numbers you mentioned are already achievable by either of the above 2 scenarios for Armor. Also shield buffers are lesser than armor buffers, and unless I'm mistaken CCP won't make Shield Rep Tools that reset the shield Recharge delay.
Although, that in and of itself would be a useful item. "Shield Jump Starter".
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
32
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Posted - 2014.04.29 06:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
bump
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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Snake Sellors
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
45
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Posted - 2014.04.29 16:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
keep bumping.. |
Kelbec Illidarie
The Forlorn Hope.
39
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Posted - 2014.04.30 21:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Snake Sellors wrote: keep bumping.. as you wish.
Primary role: Logi
Secondary role: Pilot/Tanker
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bogeyman m
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
186
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Posted - 2014.05.17 22:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Bump.
Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.
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