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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10435	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:56:00 - [1] - Quote [Ion pistol] Ion pistol problem: Despite having less range than all other pistols, it also has less damage per second (DPS); its one redeeming quality is the charge shot, which in most cases is functionally useless. By useless I mean this: charge shot generally does not enough to kill (350-385 damage), yet the overheat paralyzes the user. This means after your charge shot fails to kill the target, you're a sitting duck waiting to be killed. In addition to the charge shot being such a liability, its hard to even land the charge shot because of dispersion and the frantic mobile nature of the close range battle (with low range, close range is the only option for the ion pistol). If someone is standing still enough to reliably hit with an ion charge shot, you would be better off with using the scrambler pistol to headshot them (SCP headshot bonus > IOP charge shot); you'll kill them just as fast, and you won't have to deal with overheat (there's also the more range, and more DPS). There is also the CPU/PG costs at standard Scrambler pistol uses: 11 / 2 Ion pistol uses: STD: 20 / 2 Something is wrong with this. There is no reason why the standard ion pistol should cost BOTH more PG and more CPU than the scrambler one, especially considering Amarr technology tends to me more fitting-intensive. There is no balance or lore justification for this. Ion pistol solution: The ion pistol should not have overheat, but instead the charge shot should consume all rounds currently left in the magazine. This is very similar to overheat, since it means you have to stop shooting for a while (to reload instead of for cooldown), but unlike overheat, simply having to reload allows you to switch weapons, or to run away. Increase magazine size. One of the few advantages the ion pistol has over the scrambler pistol is the magazine size, but the scrambler pistol operation skill maxed out makes the magazine of the scrambler pistol exceed that of the ion pistol. Increase the magazine size of the ion pistol to 18. The scrambler pistol shouldn't have more range, more DPS, with a bigger magazine on top of it. As for the the CPU/PG thing, make the standard ion pistol cost 1 less PG to fit, or make the scrambler pistol take 1 more PG to fit. The scrambler pistol uses --------- [Flaylock pistol] Flaylock problem: Ideally, flaylock pistols at all tiers should do enough direct and splash damage per magazine to be good finisher weapons once you have done a good deal of damage with your primary. What holds the flaylock pistol back is the splash radius. The DPS of the flaylock is extremely low compared to other pistols, which is ok when you consider that splash weapons don't require great aim, if you want a precision weapon then you're better off with the bolt pistol or the scrambler pistol (more DPS, no travel time). With the extremely low DPS and the low magazine, the advantage of the flaylock pistol is that it does splash damage, but the radius is too low to make the splash damage really shine. The only good flaylock pistol is the prototype one, because it has the splash radius needed to be effective; its usefulness still very much pales in comparison to other pistols. After testing the core flaylock pistol, a full magazine of splash damage against an already damaged target is still unreliable. Also, right now even with the core flaylock pistol its pretty inconsistent whether or not you can finish off someone since 3 rounds is unforgiving, if you miss one splash shot (especially common with moving enemies) you won't do enough damage to kill the target. Flaylock pistol solution: Standardize the prototype tier splash radius throughout all tiers to make sure all flaylock pistols of the same variant (base variant, or breach) have enough splash damage to reliably do damage. Increase magazine size by 1 for all flaylock pistols to make the flaylock pistol able to deal enough damage per magazine to be a reliable finisher weapon against damaged light and medium frames. Reduce splash damage a bit to accompany the increased magazine size. Give the Minmatar assault a second bonus towards increasing rounds (not magazine size) carried for explosive light weapons and sidearms. Not really necessary, but all other explosive weapons really use up ammo fast, and the mass driver and flaylock pistol are both Minmatar yet do not benefit from the assault bonus. Also, I looked at the 1.3 dev blog about the flaylock pistol nerf, and I found this insulting: *"We'll be closely watching your feedback on these changes as well as monitoring the data to see how they play out live after 1.3 rolls out."* This is so painfully a lie, after 5 builds of the general consensus being that flaylock pistol being broken, CCP has completely ignored the feedback. They buffed the mass driver in 1.8, but not he flaylock despite it being far more underpowered. Continued below. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10435	Posted - 2014.04.15 21:58:00 - [2] - Quote [Scrambler pistol] Scrambler pistol problem: This is basically because of this friend I talk to in our Dust Skype group that is ALWAYS constantly whining about he scrambler pistol rate of fire nerf, it killed the unique feel of the scrambler pistol for him. He isn't unreasonable, he would settle for a different nerf. He would accept an equivalent damage nerf instead of a rate of fire nerf, just anything but the rate of fire. Somehow the scrambler pistol's feel (as a result of the rate of fire) made it his favorite gun in the game, and while he recognizes the scrambler pistol is still likely the best in the game, it is no longer the weapon he fell in love with. I also have an issue, a less sentimental one; the scrambler pistol does not benefit from the Amarr assault bonus.The Amarr assault bonus only covers 2 weapons, that is way too niche, and I think racial assault bonuses should help as many racial weapons as possible. Solution: [] Give the Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt* Gû¦Gû+
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 12340	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:17:00 - [3] - Quote ion pistol whiner reporting in buff ion pistol kthx You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. EUrobro
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1260	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:23:00 - [4] - Quote Scrambler pistol would be worst with this. *Assassination is my thing.*
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2580	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:25:00 - [5] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Scrambler pistol would be worst with this. That would be better than it currently is... And would behave more like an Amarrian weapon. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2512	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:26:00 - [6] - Quote Lol I get so many kills with the ion pistol stop crying! Just recently I charged it and killed BL4CKST4R with it, in fact every time I charge shot it that scrub player always dies (he is always in my matches for some reason) For the Federation!
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2580	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:36:00 - [7] - Quote I don't need much maaan... Just a little bump. Just 1 more... Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 94	Posted - 2014.04.16 01:04:00 - [8] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Lol I get so many kills with the ion pistol stop crying! Just recently I charged it and killed BL4CKST4R with it, in fact every time I charge shot it that scrub player always dies (he is always in my matches for some reason) Video or it didn't happen. Recruiter link here: https://dust514.com/recruit/FepTs1/ Try and steal my BPOs. I dare ya. AMARRIAN4LYFE
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2174	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:55:00 - [9] - Quote +1's all around. I'd rather have an OH on my pistol than the ROF nerf. Shape without form, shade without colour, Paralysed force, gesture without motion;
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10445	Posted - 2014.04.18 08:41:00 - [10] - Quote I want the flaylock to be a weapon worth having exist in Dust. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10458	Posted - 2014.04.20 00:17:00 - [11] - Quote What the ion pistol charge shot was a shotgun instead of just one shot? it would completely justify making it use up more than one round, and the shotgun spread would make it more reliable. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2914	Posted - 2014.04.20 00:23:00 - [12] - Quote No on the pg increase for the ScP it would destroy most if not all of my fits. Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Terry Webber Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 428	Posted - 2014.04.20 04:24:00 - [13] - Quote The ROF on the Scrambler Pistol does need to changed back to before it was nerfed in 1.8. I wouldn't mind it having a small damage nerf and the heat build-up feature either.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 325	Posted - 2014.04.20 05:03:00 - [14] - Quote Scrambler Pistol should just have charge shot and heat build up feature just like a ***** mini scr rifle lol this is *** upside down logic hellooooooooooooooooo ccppppppppp Ion no heat ***** bs understand ? Ion just need a decent damage buff .
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10569	Posted - 2014.04.23 15:48:00 - [15] - Quote Buff the flaylock already! Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis RISE of LEGION 886	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:27:00 - [16] - Quote The Ion pistol and Scrambler pistols should have their mechanics reversed. The Ion should have a tremendous headshot multiplier (goes with the "Gallente high damage" theme) and a high rate of fire to make it truly deadly in CQC. It should never have a heat-build up mechanic, since Gallente players are not the players who manage heat in their daily play styles. The Scrambler pistol should have the charge/heat mechanic. It makes the most sense from an Amarr weapons point of view (tactical, high damage, single shot) as well as an Amarr player pov in that the Amarr merc is CONSTANTLY managing heat in his daily play style. Mixing the heat mechanic with a Gallente weapon never made any sense. I mean, it's nice to see that the AR has pretty heat build up, but it NEVER affects the weapon. Hell, even the biggest offender of burst damage--the Gallente shot gun--doesn't even have a heat mechanic to deal with. >> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 7138	Posted - 2014.04.23 19:11:00 - [17] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Scrambler pistol would be worst with this. That would be better than it currently is... And would behave more like an Amarrian weapon. ^ Along with adding weapons that benefit from the Amarr Assault's bonus. HAV > Infantry > AV < HAV [s]Text[/s] <------ That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2633	Posted - 2014.04.23 19:59:00 - [18] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: The Ion pistol and Scrambler pistols should have their mechanics reversed. The Ion should have a tremendous headshot multiplier (goes with the "Gallente high damage" theme) and a high rate of fire to make it truly deadly in CQC. It should never have a heat-build up mechanic, since Gallente players are not the players who manage heat in their daily play styles. The Scrambler pistol should have the charge/heat mechanic. It makes the most sense from an Amarr weapons point of view (tactical, high damage, single shot) as well as an Amarr player pov in that the Amarr merc is CONSTANTLY managing heat in his daily play style. Mixing the heat mechanic with a Gallente weapon never made any sense. I mean, it's nice to see that the AR has pretty heat build up, but it NEVER affects the weapon. Hell, even the biggest offender of burst damage--the Gallente shot gun--doesn't even have a heat mechanic to deal with. The ScP should not lose its headshot multiplier. It is what keeps it in the same "potential DPS" style of Amarrian Weapons. It has also been part of the weapon for two years, it written into the description/lore, and is one of the main reasons many people use the weapon. It can't be taken away now. It also doesn't make any sense that Gallente weapons shouldn't overheat when there are more Gallente weapons that overheat than there are Amarrian weapons that do. Large Blaster, Small Blaster, IoP, and Krin's AR [vs] Laser Rifle and Scrambler Rifle I just don't think its right to say that Gallente weapons should never overheat. I can halfway agree with the overheat. It is a decidedly Amarrian thing for weapons to overheat, but I don't know how you could have overheat and a small magazine size without severely gimping the weapon. I just don't thing something as small as a Pistol should overheat at all, tbh. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10638	Posted - 2014.04.26 18:02:00 - [19] - Quote I want to successfully flaylock Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 551	Posted - 2014.04.26 19:31:00 - [20] - Quote I like the ideas. Though, the ScP would be fine if they just reverted the changes they made to it in 1.8. It was one of the most balanced weapons in the game IMO. I know they changed it to make the ROF of the Ion Pistol to stand out, but the difference between the Ion pistol and the pre 1.8 ScP would still be enough. And besides, the ROF isn't the big thing with the Ion pistol. It's the charge shot and CQC focus that makes it what it is. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: What the ion pistol charge shot was a shotgun instead of just one shot? it would completely justify making it use up more than one round, and the shotgun spread would make it more reliable. And this is how I always hoped it would be. It would really fit in with the CQC focus of it. We want cake and tea.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10659	Posted - 2014.04.26 23:18:00 - [21] - Quote Pew pew pew Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Cathryn Cyaer Immortal Guides 6	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:51:00 - [22] - Quote Probably the reason the don't want you to be able to switch weapons after the charge shot would be to prevent the Halo 'Newb Combo.' I'm not dissing you or anything, but I've had great luck with the Ion pistol and so far it's my favorite sidearm. In fact I don't like any of the other sidearms, especially the new SMG.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10845	Posted - 2014.05.19 17:36:00 - [23] - Quote /me hopes CCP Rattati saves the flaylock Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
TechMechMeds KLEENEX INC. 3398	Posted - 2014.05.19 18:16:00 - [24] - Quote I love the scp but getting 10 headshots with that thing in less than 3 seconds was insane. I don't have any issues with the ROF nerf, I just have to actually try now when I'm using it. Eve Legion FTW!
Llast 326 An Arkhos 3142	Posted - 2014.05.19 18:31:00 - [25] - Quote Avid flay lock user I would like to see it fixed. A number of useful suggestions have been made in the past. Moody once proposed fixing the tiering would make a world of difference. Essentially make the Advanced the Basic the Proto the Advanced and a Buffed version of the Proto the new Proto. This would place it in a competitive place with the other sidearms. KRRROOOOOOM
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10854	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:18:00 - [26] - Quote Bump Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 456	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:45:00 - [27] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: The Ion pistol and Scrambler pistols should have their mechanics reversed. The Ion should have a tremendous headshot multiplier (goes with the "Gallente high damage" theme) and a high rate of fire to make it truly deadly in CQC. It should never have a heat-build up mechanic, since Gallente players are not the players who manage heat in their daily play styles. The Scrambler pistol should have the charge/heat mechanic. It makes the most sense from an Amarr weapons point of view (tactical, high damage, single shot) as well as an Amarr player pov in that the Amarr merc is CONSTANTLY managing heat in his daily play style. Mixing the heat mechanic with a Gallente weapon never made any sense. I mean, it's nice to see that the AR has pretty heat build up, but it NEVER affects the weapon. Hell, even the biggest offender of burst damage--the Gallente shot gun--doesn't even have a heat mechanic to deal with. The headshot multiplier is Amarr as **. Amarr weapons are supposed to be harder to handle. However, I do agree that heat would fit the Scrambler Pistol. Why does the Ion Pistol need heat at all? Remove heat, keep the charge. If possible, implement the "drains magazine" idea, otherwise make it lock up as if it overheated. It's a Gallente weapon. Gallente love their comfort. Keep the high rate of fire, though. As someone who loved the Scrambler Pistol, I would gladly trade an RoF buff for a heat mechanic without charging. It would also help with the often ****** melee Scrambler Pistol fights.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11493	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:38:00 - [28] - Quote With Delta imminent, good idea to make this thread rise from the dead Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 83	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:43:00 - [29] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: Scrambler pistol would be worst with this. That would be better than it currently is... And would behave more like an Amarrian weapon. i dont get why the scrambler pistol is not exactly like the scr but mini....why does it 1 not have a charge shot 2 not have heat cost and over heat... ..i think they should give it a charge shot heat cost and remove the rof. it should be just like a mini scr no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 4033	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:57:00 - [30] - Quote All weapons should have a heat bar that jams the weapon when fired to fast or to long. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1737	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:54:00 - [31] - Quote I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Fun > Realism

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5394	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:24:00 - [32] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3420	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:27:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Someone needs sleep... You can always tell a Millford Minja
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11493	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:53:00 - [34] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 513	Posted - 2014.08.17 23:03:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. Smg is good because in most situations you pull it out instead of reloading your light weapon. It does armor damage which is what you want when finishing someone off. It's high clip capacity, rof, and reserve ammo serve it well in close range brawl where the rof and capacity let you deal great damage even when you've missed him a few times. Pistols should be high alpha damage Smg should by super high rof with large clip capacity.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1292	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:16:00 - [36] - Quote I use the Flaylock very often. I gotta say its biggest problem is its general unreliability. And the best way to fix it is to return it to its old stats. We've improved armour, shields, base stats, rifles (included arguably more powerful weapons) and more importantly hit detection since its nurf (which was the only reason explosive weapons were so good). So I don't see why not. As to the Ion pistol. Just fix its dispersion. Add new variants (breach / assault would be really cool) and perhaps a little damage. Though I have killed Cal heavies with it so I don't think it needs to go that far but the community believes it needs it so why not. Most important to me actually make the Creodron look like a proto weapon. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1738	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:17:00 - [37] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. You are the second person to say that they want to see a larger damage gap between weapons of different tiers. I'll make that change tonight when I have some time to sit down and actually think. I'm cooking and multi-tasking with spreadsheets leads to ugly graphs. I am totally willing to make that spreadsheet a more living example of all the current thoughts on the weapons by adding you as a contributor. message me in game with your gmail account and I'll make it happen. If we can all be talking about a single spreadsheet/proposal it would make this whole conversation so much more productive after all. Fun > Realism
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2180	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:39:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. I agree on normalizing the Flaylock splash radius, we can distinguish the tiers using other stats like damage, range, rof. Would also very much like to see the flaylock damage vehicles. It would add a racial flavour to the weapon tree, much the same way the Ammarian Logi's side arm adds a racial flavour to the suit tree. P.S. Also in favour of returning the ScP to it's old rof. It's more Ammarrian and was a beautiful weapon in the old days..not that Ammarian filth ever sullied these Minmatar hands, that's just what my alts tell me. PSN: RationalSpark
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1738	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:58:00 - [39] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. I agree on normalizing the Flaylock splash radius, we can distinguish the tiers using other stats like damage, range, rof. Would also very much like to see the flaylock damage vehicles. It would add a racial flavour to the weapon tree, much the same way the Ammarian Logi's side arm adds a racial flavour to the suit tree. P.S. Also in favour of returning the ScP to it's old rof. It's more Ammarrian and was a beautiful weapon in the old days..not that Ammarian filth ever sullied these Minmatar hands, that's just what my alts tell me. Currently the flaylock does quite good damage vs vehicle armor last I checked but I agree that it would be neat for it to act as a poor mans av finisher, not able to solo mind you just a finisher. A breech varient that is primarily AV focused (zero blast raduis high damage) would be really neat too. Fun > Realism
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:09:00 - [40] - Quote I find a little odd that scrambler rifle overheats in two charge shots, yet the ion pistol overheats at full or at least 1/3 charged. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 89	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:27:00 - [41] - Quote I might get around to making a spreadsheet to attract Rattati.
Gabriella Grey Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 127	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:27:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. I hope that the Scrambler Pistol doesn't do anything about having a charge feature unless it is for a specific one. The assault scrambler pistol use to be my favorite to use as an scout, and a back up weapon for when using the longer range amarr weapons to have a fighting chance. There was nothing wrong with the damage out put of the scrambler pistol nor it's rate of fire before 1.8. If the assault, and burst scrambler pistol went back to where they previously were, they would be back along the same lines as the smg, roughly. I think the breach scrambler pistols need a better rate of fire or a serious damage buff to have an relevant niche without being over powered by the assault variant. *Always Grey Skies*
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 440	Posted - 2014.08.18 07:30:00 - [43] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ion pistol whiner reporting in buff ion pistol kthx nerf Arkena Wyrnspire ccp plz
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 153	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:40:00 - [44] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I use the Flaylock very often. I gotta say its biggest problem is its general unreliability. And the best way to fix it is to return it to its old stats. We've improved armour, shields, base stats, rifles (included arguably more powerful weapons) and more importantly hit detection since its nurf (which was the only reason explosive weapons were so good). So I don't see why not. As to the Ion pistol. Just fix its dispersion. Add new variants (breach / assault would be really cool) and perhaps a little damage. Though I have killed Cal heavies with it so I don't think it needs to go that far but the community believes it needs it so why not. Most important to me actually make the Creodron look like a proto weapon. Not to mention aim assist. The flaylock got it's op status because you could strafe and bullets would do less harm. It sucked after it got nerfed and aim assist was in the game. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:48:00 - [45] - Quote +1 for shotgun pistol Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1743	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:52:00 - [46] - Quote Rattati does make a great point about how the SMG is the most consumed side arm. While I was thinking that pistols should be balanced against each other not against SMG's (the SMG and the MagSec being the only two currently) that was probably poor thinking. I will get back into the depths of said spreadsheet, add SMG's and MagSecs and balance around the SMG's DPS. Fun > Realism
Finn Colman Black Talon Company 36	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:02:00 - [47] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: I hope that the Scrambler Pistol doesn't do anything about having a charge feature unless it is for a specific one. The assault scrambler pistol use to be my favorite to use as an scout, and a back up weapon for when using the longer range amarr weapons to have a fighting chance. There was nothing wrong with the damage out put of the scrambler pistol nor it's rate of fire before 1.8. If the assault, and burst scrambler pistol went back to where they previously were, they would be back along the same lines as the smg, roughly. I think the breach scrambler pistols need a better rate of fire or a serious damage buff to have an relevant niche without being over powered by the assault variant. The flay lock pistol is still very good, and people should keep in mind it is after all a mini mass driver. Extending the clip size should be avoided at all cost in my opinion. I think the real issue with it is that it's not really good in the lower levels but works great in the prototype level. I agree that the whole charge thing should be left to a variant if it is done at all. The Burst ScP used to be my favorite, but now I usually use the Bolt Pistol, the MagSec, the Breach ScP, or the Breach SMG. Since I use the Breach ScP more frequently than any other sidearm, I can say I'd rather have more damage than a higher RoF. As for the Flaylock, I agree that it is close to being in a good place, however it most certainly is not a mini MD, as it fires missiles. The Mass Driver does not fire ammunition that has additional propulsion beyond the muzzle. Sorry, I just had to make that minor criticism.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3189	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:11:00 - [48] - Quote What about BP, MSMG or SMG? Member of a Dead Alliance and Dead Corp Coming through, still better than you FOTM corp hopping whores
Zindorak 1.U.P 632	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:17:00 - [49] - Quote Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved Pokemon master
The Eristic Dust 90210 618	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:43:00 - [50] - Quote I'll echo that the fitting requirements of the 1.8 sidearms are terrible. No sidearm should have the same fitting reqs of any light weapon of the same tier. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 569	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:38:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. i feel SMG is at a good level for sidearms to be.. though perhaps nerf SMG sharpshooting* from 5% per level to 3% (15%) or 4% (20%) so that would be a 5% to 10% nerf on dispersal making it a little less effective at longer range. while assault variants will need a dispersal compensation due to the higher pg/cpu use and it being used liek a main weapon.. and the low ROF high dmg version needs a little more damage per shot to make it on par with even the normal ROF/dmg SMGs. * or remove sharpshooting but buff dispersal as i think it unfair that SMG be penalized with having to spend extra SP just to make it viable vs other sidearms the MAGSEC needs a buff to its dispersal(tighter) and a little more range and improve the optimal/falloff difference and maybe a 30-60 dps buff to be in line with SMG these two changes should reflect the type/role of these weapons accordingly to make magsec the longer range one and smg shorter range one.. and we all know a tight hipfire can actually be counter intuitive in less then 10 meter CQB making it a choice between brawler(smg) or skirmish (mag) SCP needs a burst fire variant.. and a ScR semi-auto style (charged) variant.. as for existing ones i feel they need a faster ROF and slightly larger clip Ion pistol is a joke.. change the heat buildup from doing the charged shot from 100% to 60-80% that way a few extra shots can be fired as well before it seizes up for the 3 seconds (aka death) in CQB. ion could also do with a burst varient. and ion could do with a larger clip size. Bolt pistol.. cant really comment much except needs a lower dps+higher ROF variant like the difference between SB-39 and the SL-4 assault flaylock.. bring back the guided variant small splash range small splash damage maybe nerf direct damage some. buff dumb fire direct dmg and splash radius. leave splash dmg as is or perhaps a slight buff novaknives.. pretty good dont need a change. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 569	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:42:00 - [52] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved naw leave smg as is. un-nerf the SCP. buff flay bolt and ion(ion needs 25% dispersion buff but the sharpshooter skill removed) smg is a good control ground sidearm despite having to spend like 1mill SP into sharpshooters to not suck at close-mid range [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Jathniel G I A N T 1148	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:24:00 - [53] - Quote Good proposal for the Ion Pistol. It's hard for me to find a tear to shed for the Flaylock Pistol... For a good while, the Flaylock literally broke PC. A squad of core flaylocks in CQC were guaranteed to win, hands down. It literally almost became what the dumb fire swarms used to be. The damn thing was literally a nightmare, and the sheer amount of players that started speccing into it just made things worse. If we buff their damage and/or radius, then the amount of rounds ready to fire needs to be dropped to 1. Essentially, make it a pocket plasma cannon. OR reduce the RoF significantly, to prevent people from just stacking damage mods, and running around going pop pop pop. I mean drop that damn thing down to like 50RPM. That fire rate, is what was making the Flaylock have the advantage over the Mass Driver. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1148	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:27:00 - [54] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Zindorak wrote: Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved naw leave smg as is. un-nerf the SCP. buff flay bolt and ion(ion needs 25% dispersion buff but the sharpshooter skill removed) smg is a good control ground sidearm despite having to spend like 1mill SP into sharpshooters to not suck at close-mid range Agreed. Don't ever touch the SMG. Ever. hiss Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Sum1ne Else Fatal Absolution 1355	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:44:00 - [55] - Quote Can the Ion pistol's overheat mechanic react like the scrambler rifle? I think this would be best. Longest PLC Kill - 193.71m *Logi mk.0 - Com gk.0 - Scout gk.0 - Ass ak.0*


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