DUST Search - [Feedback/Request] Flaylock & Ion pistol fixes (some SCP stuff a...

Vrain Matari wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Mobius Kaethis wrote:

I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make.

Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto.
Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference.

I agree on normalizing the Flaylock splash radius, we can distinguish the tiers using other stats like damage, range, rof.

Would also very much like to see the flaylock damage vehicles. It would add a racial flavour to the weapon tree, much the same way the Ammarian Logi's side arm adds a racial flavour to the suit tree.

P.S. Also in favour of returning the ScP to it's old rof. It's more Ammarrian and was a beautiful weapon in the old days..not that Ammarian filth ever sullied these Minmatar hands, that's just what my alts tell me.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1737	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:54:00 - [31] - Quote I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Fun > Realism

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5394	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:24:00 - [32] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3420	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:27:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Someone needs sleep... You can always tell a Millford Minja
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11493	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:53:00 - [34] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 513	Posted - 2014.08.17 23:03:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. Smg is good because in most situations you pull it out instead of reloading your light weapon. It does armor damage which is what you want when finishing someone off. It's high clip capacity, rof, and reserve ammo serve it well in close range brawl where the rof and capacity let you deal great damage even when you've missed him a few times. Pistols should be high alpha damage Smg should by super high rof with large clip capacity.
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1292	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:16:00 - [36] - Quote I use the Flaylock very often. I gotta say its biggest problem is its general unreliability. And the best way to fix it is to return it to its old stats. We've improved armour, shields, base stats, rifles (included arguably more powerful weapons) and more importantly hit detection since its nurf (which was the only reason explosive weapons were so good). So I don't see why not. As to the Ion pistol. Just fix its dispersion. Add new variants (breach / assault would be really cool) and perhaps a little damage. Though I have killed Cal heavies with it so I don't think it needs to go that far but the community believes it needs it so why not. Most important to me actually make the Creodron look like a proto weapon. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1738	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:17:00 - [37] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. You are the second person to say that they want to see a larger damage gap between weapons of different tiers. I'll make that change tonight when I have some time to sit down and actually think. I'm cooking and multi-tasking with spreadsheets leads to ugly graphs. I am totally willing to make that spreadsheet a more living example of all the current thoughts on the weapons by adding you as a contributor. message me in game with your gmail account and I'll make it happen. If we can all be talking about a single spreadsheet/proposal it would make this whole conversation so much more productive after all. Fun > Realism
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2180	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:39:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. I agree on normalizing the Flaylock splash radius, we can distinguish the tiers using other stats like damage, range, rof. Would also very much like to see the flaylock damage vehicles. It would add a racial flavour to the weapon tree, much the same way the Ammarian Logi's side arm adds a racial flavour to the suit tree. P.S. Also in favour of returning the ScP to it's old rof. It's more Ammarrian and was a beautiful weapon in the old days..not that Ammarian filth ever sullied these Minmatar hands, that's just what my alts tell me. PSN: RationalSpark
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1738	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:58:00 - [39] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago and was looking for someone to get in and criticize. KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf and others look this sucker over and be critical. I haven't had a chance to read through the entire OP but as soon as I do I'll look into making changes to the spreadsheet based upon it and any comments you all make. Currently have no electricity, and not at library, so I can only see this And type from my phone, but I think it looks good. One thing I would say normalizing splash radius should be part of a flaylock solution to make it reliable at all tiers, and not just proto. Oh, and I think the DPS gap between the IOP and SCP in your proposal is not wide enough in the IOP's favor the justify the steep range difference. I agree on normalizing the Flaylock splash radius, we can distinguish the tiers using other stats like damage, range, rof. Would also very much like to see the flaylock damage vehicles. It would add a racial flavour to the weapon tree, much the same way the Ammarian Logi's side arm adds a racial flavour to the suit tree. P.S. Also in favour of returning the ScP to it's old rof. It's more Ammarrian and was a beautiful weapon in the old days..not that Ammarian filth ever sullied these Minmatar hands, that's just what my alts tell me. Currently the flaylock does quite good damage vs vehicle armor last I checked but I agree that it would be neat for it to act as a poor mans av finisher, not able to solo mind you just a finisher. A breech varient that is primarily AV focused (zero blast raduis high damage) would be really neat too. Fun > Realism
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:09:00 - [40] - Quote I find a little odd that scrambler rifle overheats in two charge shots, yet the ion pistol overheats at full or at least 1/3 charged. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 89	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:27:00 - [41] - Quote I might get around to making a spreadsheet to attract Rattati.
Gabriella Grey Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 127	Posted - 2014.08.18 01:27:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. I hope that the Scrambler Pistol doesn't do anything about having a charge feature unless it is for a specific one. The assault scrambler pistol use to be my favorite to use as an scout, and a back up weapon for when using the longer range amarr weapons to have a fighting chance. There was nothing wrong with the damage out put of the scrambler pistol nor it's rate of fire before 1.8. If the assault, and burst scrambler pistol went back to where they previously were, they would be back along the same lines as the smg, roughly. I think the breach scrambler pistols need a better rate of fire or a serious damage buff to have an relevant niche without being over powered by the assault variant. *Always Grey Skies*
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 440	Posted - 2014.08.18 07:30:00 - [43] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: ion pistol whiner reporting in buff ion pistol kthx nerf Arkena Wyrnspire ccp plz
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 153	Posted - 2014.08.18 13:40:00 - [44] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I use the Flaylock very often. I gotta say its biggest problem is its general unreliability. And the best way to fix it is to return it to its old stats. We've improved armour, shields, base stats, rifles (included arguably more powerful weapons) and more importantly hit detection since its nurf (which was the only reason explosive weapons were so good). So I don't see why not. As to the Ion pistol. Just fix its dispersion. Add new variants (breach / assault would be really cool) and perhaps a little damage. Though I have killed Cal heavies with it so I don't think it needs to go that far but the community believes it needs it so why not. Most important to me actually make the Creodron look like a proto weapon. Not to mention aim assist. The flaylock got it's op status because you could strafe and bullets would do less harm. It sucked after it got nerfed and aim assist was in the game. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 995	Posted - 2014.08.18 14:48:00 - [45] - Quote +1 for shotgun pistol Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1743	Posted - 2014.08.18 16:52:00 - [46] - Quote Rattati does make a great point about how the SMG is the most consumed side arm. While I was thinking that pistols should be balanced against each other not against SMG's (the SMG and the MagSec being the only two currently) that was probably poor thinking. I will get back into the depths of said spreadsheet, add SMG's and MagSecs and balance around the SMG's DPS. Fun > Realism
Finn Colman Black Talon Company 36	Posted - 2014.08.18 18:02:00 - [47] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: I hope that the Scrambler Pistol doesn't do anything about having a charge feature unless it is for a specific one. The assault scrambler pistol use to be my favorite to use as an scout, and a back up weapon for when using the longer range amarr weapons to have a fighting chance. There was nothing wrong with the damage out put of the scrambler pistol nor it's rate of fire before 1.8. If the assault, and burst scrambler pistol went back to where they previously were, they would be back along the same lines as the smg, roughly. I think the breach scrambler pistols need a better rate of fire or a serious damage buff to have an relevant niche without being over powered by the assault variant. The flay lock pistol is still very good, and people should keep in mind it is after all a mini mass driver. Extending the clip size should be avoided at all cost in my opinion. I think the real issue with it is that it's not really good in the lower levels but works great in the prototype level. I agree that the whole charge thing should be left to a variant if it is done at all. The Burst ScP used to be my favorite, but now I usually use the Bolt Pistol, the MagSec, the Breach ScP, or the Breach SMG. Since I use the Breach ScP more frequently than any other sidearm, I can say I'd rather have more damage than a higher RoF. As for the Flaylock, I agree that it is close to being in a good place, however it most certainly is not a mini MD, as it fires missiles. The Mass Driver does not fire ammunition that has additional propulsion beyond the muzzle. Sorry, I just had to make that minor criticism.
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 3189	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:11:00 - [48] - Quote What about BP, MSMG or SMG? Member of a Dead Alliance and Dead Corp Coming through, still better than you FOTM corp hopping whores
Zindorak 1.U.P 632	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:17:00 - [49] - Quote Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved Pokemon master
The Eristic Dust 90210 618	Posted - 2014.08.19 05:43:00 - [50] - Quote I'll echo that the fitting requirements of the 1.8 sidearms are terrible. No sidearm should have the same fitting reqs of any light weapon of the same tier. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 569	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:38:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: I built this spreadsheet, I built this spreadsheet on rock and roll. FTFY Aside from that, please keep your ideas on only changing current stats and functionality. I kind of agree with the SCP should have been the charged one etc. but the focus will be on making each of the sidearms equally powerful as they are. Don't forget that bought and consumed sidearms are more than half SMG (not magsec) and the rest is split between all the other sidearms so they need to be as viable and consistently dangerous as the SMG. i feel SMG is at a good level for sidearms to be.. though perhaps nerf SMG sharpshooting* from 5% per level to 3% (15%) or 4% (20%) so that would be a 5% to 10% nerf on dispersal making it a little less effective at longer range. while assault variants will need a dispersal compensation due to the higher pg/cpu use and it being used liek a main weapon.. and the low ROF high dmg version needs a little more damage per shot to make it on par with even the normal ROF/dmg SMGs. * or remove sharpshooting but buff dispersal as i think it unfair that SMG be penalized with having to spend extra SP just to make it viable vs other sidearms the MAGSEC needs a buff to its dispersal(tighter) and a little more range and improve the optimal/falloff difference and maybe a 30-60 dps buff to be in line with SMG these two changes should reflect the type/role of these weapons accordingly to make magsec the longer range one and smg shorter range one.. and we all know a tight hipfire can actually be counter intuitive in less then 10 meter CQB making it a choice between brawler(smg) or skirmish (mag) SCP needs a burst fire variant.. and a ScR semi-auto style (charged) variant.. as for existing ones i feel they need a faster ROF and slightly larger clip Ion pistol is a joke.. change the heat buildup from doing the charged shot from 100% to 60-80% that way a few extra shots can be fired as well before it seizes up for the 3 seconds (aka death) in CQB. ion could also do with a burst varient. and ion could do with a larger clip size. Bolt pistol.. cant really comment much except needs a lower dps+higher ROF variant like the difference between SB-39 and the SL-4 assault flaylock.. bring back the guided variant small splash range small splash damage maybe nerf direct damage some. buff dumb fire direct dmg and splash radius. leave splash dmg as is or perhaps a slight buff novaknives.. pretty good dont need a change. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 569	Posted - 2014.08.19 06:42:00 - [52] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved naw leave smg as is. un-nerf the SCP. buff flay bolt and ion(ion needs 25% dispersion buff but the sharpshooter skill removed) smg is a good control ground sidearm despite having to spend like 1mill SP into sharpshooters to not suck at close-mid range [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Jathniel G I A N T 1148	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:24:00 - [53] - Quote Good proposal for the Ion Pistol. It's hard for me to find a tear to shed for the Flaylock Pistol... For a good while, the Flaylock literally broke PC. A squad of core flaylocks in CQC were guaranteed to win, hands down. It literally almost became what the dumb fire swarms used to be. The damn thing was literally a nightmare, and the sheer amount of players that started speccing into it just made things worse. If we buff their damage and/or radius, then the amount of rounds ready to fire needs to be dropped to 1. Essentially, make it a pocket plasma cannon. OR reduce the RoF significantly, to prevent people from just stacking damage mods, and running around going pop pop pop. I mean drop that damn thing down to like 50RPM. That fire rate, is what was making the Flaylock have the advantage over the Mass Driver. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1148	Posted - 2014.08.19 08:27:00 - [54] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Zindorak wrote: Make ScP unerfed buff ion flay and Bolt and nerf SMG there solved naw leave smg as is. un-nerf the SCP. buff flay bolt and ion(ion needs 25% dispersion buff but the sharpshooter skill removed) smg is a good control ground sidearm despite having to spend like 1mill SP into sharpshooters to not suck at close-mid range Agreed. Don't ever touch the SMG. Ever. hiss Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Sum1ne Else Fatal Absolution 1355	Posted - 2014.08.19 13:44:00 - [55] - Quote Can the Ion pistol's overheat mechanic react like the scrambler rifle? I think this would be best. Longest PLC Kill - 193.71m *Logi mk.0 - Com gk.0 - Scout gk.0 - Ass ak.0*


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