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Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1926	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:01:00 - [1] - Quote Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed.
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 843	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:03:00 - [2] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed. Holy crap, someone who uses the suit to it's advantages rather than shoehorning... +1 to you good sir. Fixing swarms
Tweaksz NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 41	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:06:00 - [3] - Quote Hooray for bad grammer... Unicorn GalScout with TAR and BoltP.
Knight Solitaire 736	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:08:00 - [4] - Quote I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Faigh dea "Knight Soiaire has the best RE Game" - Crimson Moon V
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1857	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:09:00 - [5] - Quote say that to the inviso-scouts. scouts are positional masters. since scouts have lower profiles and speed. and any races scout can do this. so, no. minmatar ARENOT the masters of position. when you compair them to the same suits of the same teir, their speed is marginal at best. however, since assault suits and heavies are desinged to brawl, their is an issue. the speed is nice, but not enough to give a significant advantage. scouts = speed Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 844	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:13:00 - [6] - Quote Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Fixing swarms
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 844	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:15:00 - [7] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: say that to the inviso-scouts. scouts are positional masters. since scouts have lower profiles and speed. and any races scout can do this. so, no. minmatar ARENOT the masters of position. when you compair them to the same suits of the same teir, their speed is marginal at best. however, since assault suits and heavies are desinged to brawl, their is an issue. the speed is nice, but not enough to give a significant advantage. scouts = speed Here is your classic example of someone wanting to shoehorn their suit into a role it wasn't intended for. Rather than use the suits properly, or god forbid train into a suit that would fit their wanted style, they petition CCP to change the game. Fixing swarms
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 639	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:17:00 - [8] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Hooray for bad grammer... Grammer actually has 3 m's My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6751	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:19:00 - [9] - Quote As I've said a few moments ago, the only problems with Minmatar suits is the fact that speed tanking is negated by the sprinting glitch and snare effects (which just about everyone agrees is a problem), and the fact that it has a lower shield regen rate than the Caldari, while claiming to be the hit-and-run race. Fix these issues, and you'll see vast, non-gamebreaking improvements. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Boot Booter Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 512	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:20:00 - [10] - Quote You said it all bro. I'm glad the majority of people don't know how to use minmatar. I will continue to dominate everyone in my assault suit .. I'm making a chat channel for minmatar bros (especially aasaults). I'll send you an invite when it's ready. SMG Specialist

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4817	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:22:00 - [11] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Increasing one suit's PG is a buff to a singular suit. Decreasing a module fitting cost is a buff to many suits. The goal is to bring Minmatar in line in terms of fitting rather than widen the gap. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Ziiro Celeste Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 117	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:23:00 - [12] - Quote Tweaksz wrote: Hooray for bad grammer... "GRAMMAR" "AR" not "ER" ugh Personally when I see any Minmatar suit, the first thing that goes through my head is "glass suit" and I know I'm about to get a free, easy kill. The forgotten "A" in AAA
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1151	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:25:00 - [13] - Quote Couldn't you play another racial dropsuit the same way and be nearly as effective? You are talking about a style of play that is not really exclusive to the Minmatar, namely flank and sneak attack. I am not Minmatar and I play flanky when not in a vehicle. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1927	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:26:00 - [14] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: say that to the inviso-scouts. scouts are positional masters. since scouts have lower profiles and speed. and any races scout can do this. so, no. minmatar ARENOT the masters of position. when you compair them to the same suits of the same teir, their speed is marginal at best. however, since assault suits and heavies are desinged to brawl, their is an issue. the speed is nice, but not enough to give a significant advantage. scouts = speed not all assaults and heavys are designed to brawl... only amaar and gallente are. caldari is perimiter control, they excel at creating, maintaining and advancing a battle line through range and use of cover to regen shields. sure you have sort of a point, scouts of any race are great at positional advantage, but minmatar as an entire race is. meaning only minmatar have a positional advantage logi, only minmatar have a positional advantage assault, only minmatar have all those other boxes checked in ADDITION to scout. in order to get the same speed advantage as minmatar you have to give up your suits other advantages, and even then it will lose out. that "marginal at best" advantage gives me a minmatar assault that runs at 8.77m/s while a caldari suit cant get that high or higher without giving up its advantages, making it worse if it trys to acomplish the same thing. i can tell that your one of those types that trys to brawl with minmatar suits... and that completly and tottaly explains your opinion. as someone who hates the brawling playstyle and prefers something a little more unorthadox there is no suit that performs better then minmatar. If speed isnt giving you enough of an advantage, your simply not using your speed correctly. i ******* outrun scouts.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4817	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Couldn't you play another racial dropsuit the same way and be nearly as effective? You are talking about a style of play that is not really exclusive to the Minmatar, namely flank and sneak attack. I am not Minmatar and I play flanky when not in a vehicle. Correct. Any suit is a flank suit. Minmatar are a little bit better simply because of speed and they can't survive on the front lines so they have to fight somewhere. That doesn't make the Minmatar assault a good flank suit though. It just makes it faster at it. Not necessarily better suited. Sure it's good at repositioning but if you're a halfway intelligent player it doesn't matter what you're wearing you're doing that anyway. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1927	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:31:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: As I've said a few moments ago, the only problems with Minmatar suits is the fact that speed tanking is negated by the sprinting glitch and snare effects (which just about everyone agrees is a problem), and the fact that it has a lower shield regen rate than the Caldari, while claiming to be the hit-and-run race. Fix these issues, and you'll see vast, non-gamebreaking improvements. positional advantage isnt speed tanking. caldari isnt hit and run, its hit and take cover. hit and run doesnt need high shield regen becuase your running away faster then they can keep up, around corners and cover, repositionaing again and again, drawing them into positions where they overextend. you can kite them forever untill your shields are fully recharged and re-engage at your will. i dont think people really understand what hit and run means so lets rephrase it, hit and retreat. never get into a fight you cant saftly retreat from and you wont need higher shield regen.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1927	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:32:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Couldn't you play another racial dropsuit the same way and be nearly as effective? You are talking about a style of play that is not really exclusive to the Minmatar, namely flank and sneak attack. I am not Minmatar and I play flanky when not in a vehicle. Correct. Any suit is a flank suit. Minmatar are a little bit better simply because of speed and they can't survive on the front lines. That doesn't make the Minmatar assault a good flank suit though. Sure it's good at repositioning but if you're a halfway intelligent player it doesn't matter what you're wearing you're doing that anyway. but your just not doing it nearly as well in any suit that isnt minmatar...
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2534	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:36:00 - [18] - Quote By definition of the suit you just gave I would call it a brawler (personally), but you are right the Minmatar suits and respective weaponry is all about the controllig the engagement. If a Minmatar is engaging you chances are your already dead, you just don't know it yet. However that's not to say the Minnie suits couldn't do wih a facelift. We need a better slot layout, 4/4 would be perfect, also a buff to either shield regen or regulation would be nice, especially since they gave BOTH to caldari Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 466	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:40:00 - [19] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Atiim wrote: As I've said a few moments ago, the only problems with Minmatar suits is the fact that speed tanking is negated by the sprinting glitch and snare effects (which just about everyone agrees is a problem), and the fact that it has a lower shield regen rate than the Caldari, while claiming to be the hit-and-run race. Fix these issues, and you'll see vast, non-gamebreaking improvements. positional advantage isnt speed tanking. caldari isnt hit and run, its hit and take cover. hit and run doesnt need high shield regen becuase your running away faster then they can keep up, around corners and cover, repositionaing again and again, drawing them into positions where they overextend. you can kite them forever untill your shields are fully recharged and re-engage at your will. i dont think people really understand what hit and run means so lets rephrase it, hit and retreat. never get into a fight you cant saftly retreat from and you wont need higher shield regen. I think that they think hit and run means phase through bullets while running straight at the enemy or using their mlg "strafe technique" I wonder why it isn't working
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 847	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:42:00 - [20] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Increasing one suit's PG is a buff to a singular suit. Decreasing a module fitting cost is a buff to many suits. The goal is to bring Minmatar in line in terms of fitting rather than widen the gap. But you do know that caldari suits also have PG problem, and amarr especially have PG problems (aside from the soon to be re-aligned assault.) IT has been said over and over aagain that there is no reason why complex shield extenders take only 1 less PG than complex plates. OR why a complex kin-cat takes more PG than a complex plate. Anyway, at least your weapons take under 11 PG AT STANDARD. There is no reason to boost minmatar PG other than to maybe switch it with caldari. Fixing swarms

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1928	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:44:00 - [21] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: By definition of the suit you just gave I would call it a brawler (personally), but you are right the Minmatar suits and respective weaponry is all about the controllig the engagement. If a Minmatar is engaging you chances are your already dead, you just don't know it yet. However that's not to say the Minnie suits couldn't do wih a facelift. We need a better slot layout, 4/4 would be perfect, also a buff to either shield regen or regulation would be nice, especially since they gave BOTH to caldari if anything regen is the more minmatar of the two as minmatar is more capable of stalling for time to wait out the delay wheras caldari is more focused on that permiter and holding ground by using cover and never letting thier shields drop using cover to wait out the 2-3 seconds to regain shields then popping out from cover to shoot again keeping constant pressure on. you can make a minmatar suit have some really good regen however in that 5th high slot (assault) to compensate without losing out too much (costs you a low slot for cpu mod in the worse case) i really really like the minmatar suit how it is, and any changes are more likely to make it at caldari clone and worse at what its currently good at. the problem we face right now isnt with the suit, its with the current tactics and metagame or rather the lack of tactics and metagame. this causes people to use all suits in roughly the same ways becuase EHP and zerg tactics are the simplest easyest to understand and easyest to use stratagies.
Aria Gomes R 0 N 1 N 384	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:57:00 - [22] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Honestly the PG of shields don't bother. It's not too bad. It's kin cats when compared to cardiac regulators where the PG is like omfg stupid PG! I think we mainly say give more PG because if you stack kin cats you can't really fit anything else. Speed tanking is very much sacrifice everything else from weapon, health, equipment for crazy speed. I won't lie though the speed has gotten me out of sticky situations but I've also gotten killed by high DPS weapons where my body just freezes up. Since I'm extra squishy from having all the speed, I die faster than the other scouts around me. That's probably the only qualm people have with Minmatar Scout.
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 3433	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:00:00 - [23] - Quote I've recently got my solo groove back running mini assault been going 30+ and 2-3 have not had many solo matches where I put up these kind of scores since I was playing in 1.7 Sir Hadah for CPM
THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 667	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:02:00 - [24] - Quote Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Why? My scout ak.0 with four complex kinetic catalyzers is still 0.4 slower than an mk.0 with three. Running at 10.6 m/s ak.0 Projects: TDBS \| SDETool Flaylocks are fine
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1929	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:02:00 - [25] - Quote Aria Gomes wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Honestly the PG of shields don't bother. It's not too bad. It's kin cats when compared to cardiac regulators where the PG is like omfg stupid PG! I think we mainly say give more PG because if you stack kin cats you can't really fit anything else. Speed tanking is very much sacrifice everything else from weapon, health, equipment for crazy speed. I won't lie though the speed has gotten me out of sticky situations but I've also gotten killed by high DPS weapons where my body just freezes up. Since I'm extra squishy from having all the speed, I die faster than the other scouts around me. That's probably the only qualm people have with Minmatar Scout. the key to the speed is that you use it to ensure you dont get shot at in the first place. positional advantage is about making sure that each and every single fight you have involves you shooting them without them shooting you back. if they so much as point a weapon at you you turn tail and GTFO to either set up in a position to finish them off when they try to advance on your previous position, or to flank and try to re-engage them from a completly different direction. the speed is key to that as it means you have your position and you weapons ready and pointed before the enemy can get their barings on your position each and every single time you fight, and if things even give the slightist whiff of going not so perfectly in your favor you can high tail it out of there and theres nothing they can do to stop you as tehy would have to be able to catch you first. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 917	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:06:00 - [26] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed. Yeah I know how powerfull these suits are but the majority here thinks evrything should play the same with tons of HP etc. No creativity in playstyles...so they start whining that suit x has noot 1000hp and is UP because of that...
Aria Gomes R 0 N 1 N 385	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:08:00 - [27] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Aria Gomes wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Honestly the PG of shields don't bother. It's not too bad. It's kin cats when compared to cardiac regulators where the PG is like omfg stupid PG! I think we mainly say give more PG because if you stack kin cats you can't really fit anything else. Speed tanking is very much sacrifice everything else from weapon, health, equipment for crazy speed. I won't lie though the speed has gotten me out of sticky situations but I've also gotten killed by high DPS weapons where my body just freezes up. Since I'm extra squishy from having all the speed, I die faster than the other scouts around me. That's probably the only qualm people have with Minmatar Scout. the key to the speed is that you use it to ensure you dont get shot at in the first place. positional advantage is about making sure that each and every single fight you have involves you shooting them without them shooting you back. if they so much as point a weapon at you you turn tail and GTFO to either set up in a position to finish them off when they try to advance on your previous position, or to flank and try to re-engage them from a completly different direction. the speed is key to that as it means you have your position and you weapons ready and pointed before the enemy can get their barings on your position each and every single time you fight, and if things even give the slightist whiff of going not so perfectly in your favor you can high tail it out of there and theres nothing they can do to stop you as tehy would have to be able to catch you first. I try to run from heavies. :( I only get away if there's somewhere for me to jump down to and even then I probably die from fall damage. The good thing about being speedy though is I'm able to get in closer before the person can react and then knife them up.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1931	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:10:00 - [28] - Quote Aria Gomes wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Aria Gomes wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Knight Solitaire wrote: I just don't think they're getting enough speed for the HP they sacrifice. Yes, you can get an amazing speed tank with Kin Cats, but its incredibly PG intensive. Slightly increase their speed, excluding the Min Scout, and increase the PG of the Min Scout by just a little. Can I ask you something seriously? Why is it always "increase minmatar PG" rather than decrease kin-cat PG requirements? I honestly don't understand it. Minmatar have the least PG and the most CPU(should be 2nd most CPU and 2nd least PG), this is to reflect their high-slot bias, but none of you ever address the PG requirements of shields and kin-cats.... you only want a buff for the minmatar suits. Why is that? Do you think that you guys should be the only ones who can easily fit kin-cats?? Honestly the PG of shields don't bother. It's not too bad. It's kin cats when compared to cardiac regulators where the PG is like omfg stupid PG! I think we mainly say give more PG because if you stack kin cats you can't really fit anything else. Speed tanking is very much sacrifice everything else from weapon, health, equipment for crazy speed. I won't lie though the speed has gotten me out of sticky situations but I've also gotten killed by high DPS weapons where my body just freezes up. Since I'm extra squishy from having all the speed, I die faster than the other scouts around me. That's probably the only qualm people have with Minmatar Scout. the key to the speed is that you use it to ensure you dont get shot at in the first place. positional advantage is about making sure that each and every single fight you have involves you shooting them without them shooting you back. if they so much as point a weapon at you you turn tail and GTFO to either set up in a position to finish them off when they try to advance on your previous position, or to flank and try to re-engage them from a completly different direction. the speed is key to that as it means you have your position and you weapons ready and pointed before the enemy can get their barings on your position each and every single time you fight, and if things even give the slightist whiff of going not so perfectly in your favor you can high tail it out of there and theres nothing they can do to stop you as tehy would have to be able to catch you first. I try to run from heavies. :( I only get away if there's somewhere for me to jump down to and even then I probably die from fall damage. The good thing about being speedy though is I'm able to get in closer before the person can react and then knife them up. i hate to say it but heavys are best delt with when they are shooting at someone else. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:19:00 - [29] - Quote Having all the type of heavy (except the Gal.Heavy, which i personally think is a little too strong) i fell in love with the Min heavy. Sprinting fast, flank and deliver my HMG "Deathtruck" Finally i can cross large section of field without getting shred by RR. Anyway i think that a little buff on speed for Min.ASS-Min.Logi-Min.Heavy is needed in virtue of the hp loss. and a little more pg for scout. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1278	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:21:00 - [30] - Quote lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times.

Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 190	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:22:00 - [31] - Quote Ziiro Celeste wrote: Tweaksz wrote: Hooray for bad grammer... "GRAMMAR" "AR" not "ER" ugh Personally when I see any Minmatar suit, the first thing that goes through my head is "glass suit" and I know I'm about to get a free, easy kill. I wonder how many people saw me in my Minmatar Commando and thought that...right before I shredded them. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:26:00 - [32] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. And DMG mod. Also the Gal.Heavy will receive the nerf bat sooner or later. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1931	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:33:00 - [33] - Quote Jastad wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. And DMG mod. Also the Gal.Heavy will receive the nerf bat sooner or later. strafe speed i beat many a gal heavys with my ADV minnie heavy simply because they dont understand this. it also helps that the gal heavy is absolutly the worst example he could of possably used the gal heavy being able to do that doesnt make the minmatar heavy UP, it makes the gal heavy OP. theres a very big difference between the two sir. aside from straife speed that suit is the only suit that doesnt have to give up anything to obtain better mobily then the minnie equivilant, and that makes it OP. but everyone and their uncle knows its getting hit with the nerf bat soon (hopefully not too hard). I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 5643	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:38:00 - [34] - Quote Wait. Youre saying all suits dont play the same? WTF CCP LLZ NERF *1st Official Role Playing Gallente Asshole* -Title Awarded by True Adamance
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1931	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:39:00 - [35] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Wait. Youre saying all suits dont play the same? WTF CCP LLZ NERF sadly it needs to be said. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 904	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:41:00 - [36] - Quote I pity the fool that underestimates the stamina regen of Minmatar suits. The only suit that can match our slowest regener is the Amarr scout who can match our sents and comms but no one surpasses them and they're rocking 40. 60 stamina regen off the bat for Min scouts is just crazy cool IMHO too. Minmatar is for those who can think outside the box. Minmatar mercs took the red pill. Badass weapons on fast suits with fun-as-***** bonuses...Matari life all day ever day for me yo. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1857	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:42:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: As I've said a few moments ago, the only problems with Minmatar suits is the fact that speed tanking is negated by the sprinting glitch and snare effects (which just about everyone agrees is a problem), and the fact that it has a lower shield regen rate than the Caldari, while claiming to be the hit-and-run race. Fix these issues, and you'll see vast, non-gamebreaking improvements. This exactly. Little more speed and better recovery stats. This is not gamebreaking, and its not alot to ask. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1857	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:46:00 - [38] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Couldn't you play another racial dropsuit the same way and be nearly as effective? You are talking about a style of play that is not really exclusive to the Minmatar, namely flank and sneak attack. I am not Minmatar and I play flanky when not in a vehicle. ^^this. If it requiera greater skill to play minmatar as the op said. then playing another race will make you all the more effective. Essentially the op is saying to play minmatar you have to just better than the enemy. But Isnt that a generic goal by default of any race? Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1931	Posted - 2014.04.15 18:57:00 - [39] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Couldn't you play another racial dropsuit the same way and be nearly as effective? You are talking about a style of play that is not really exclusive to the Minmatar, namely flank and sneak attack. I am not Minmatar and I play flanky when not in a vehicle. ^^this. If it requiera greater skill to play minmatar as the op said. then playing another race will make you all the more effective. Essentially the op is saying to play minmatar you have to just better than the enemy. But Isnt that a generic goal by default of any race? theres a limit though where suit performance hampers you if your not minmatar. assuming equal skill both playing for positional advantage the minmatar suit will win. being better then the enamy is one thing, being better then yourself is another. me in a minmatar suit > me in any other races suit trying to use the same playstyle. when using other races suits built for the same playstyle i cant run as fast strafe as fast jump as high/far (yes its important) regen stamina as fast if i build the suits to match or beat the minmatar suit then i run into other problems such as less HP bad stamina regen you cant fix strafe or jump hight/distance so minmatar ALWAYS wins there you run out of PG (kin cats are hard on PG and you have to use 2 KCs for every 1 a minmatar suit uses to beat the speed advantage....) worse sidearms or downgraded weapons slow regen delay less ideal equipment carrying ability Minmatar dont do brick tanking very well, they dont brawl very well, and so most people simply dont know how to use them. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1857	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:00:00 - [40] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: D legendary hero wrote: say that to the inviso-scouts. scouts are positional masters. since scouts have lower profiles and speed. and any races scout can do this. so, no. minmatar ARENOT the masters of position. when you compair them to the same suits of the same teir, their speed is marginal at best. however, since assault suits and heavies are desinged to brawl, their is an issue. the speed is nice, but not enough to give a significant advantage. scouts = speed not all assaults and heavys are designed to brawl... only amaar and gallente are. caldari is perimiter control, they excel at creating, maintaining and advancing a battle line through range and use of cover to regen shields. sure you have sort of a point, scouts of any race are great at positional advantage, but minmatar as an entire race is. meaning only minmatar have a positional advantage logi, only minmatar have a positional advantage assault, only minmatar have all those other boxes checked in ADDITION to scout. in order to get the same speed advantage as minmatar you have to give up your suits other advantages, and even then it will lose out. that "marginal at best" advantage gives me a minmatar assault that runs at 8.77m/s while a caldari suit cant get that high or higher without giving up its advantages, making it worse if it trys to acomplish the same thing. i can tell that your one of those types that trys to brawl with minmatar suits... and that completly and tottaly explains your opinion. as someone who hates the brawling playstyle and prefers something a little more unorthadox there is no suit that performs better then minmatar. If speed isnt giving you enough of an advantage, your simply not using your speed correctly. i ******* outrun scouts. Have you noticed that the description on allsentinels are the same? I have been advancing increasing the reatorative abilities of minmatar to aid them in hit and run. They cnt really do this. Again, you must understand that movement apeed and run apeed are not the same thing. Movement soeed atays the same regardless of how many kincats you have. Right now minmatar have a movement speed that is .3 m/s higher than Valente and caldari. The fastest thing in this game are bullets and with low ehp, loa recovery and margonal speed you cannot win engagements. You are correct that positioning and timing play key roles in taking out enemies. However these are tactics. Your op simply reenforced that to play minmatar you kust be a better player than your opponenta. But, if you have to be better than them to Qin youbwould be more effective in a caldari or galente suit. As far as the suits and their design goes we both know what scouts, assaults, and heavies are designed for. They Each have inique qualities. Ir heavies Galente rep and tank. Amar tank Caldari shield recharge and have long range weaponry. Lorewise minmatar are supposed to be close range fighters (Valente are close range too). The minmatar sentinel is not fast ebough to keep up with m+¬dium frames, nor does it have high regen. So what does it do? What positioning is a heavy doing against a faster m+¬dium frame? Especailly with poor passives? Comparing suits you can See the inequality. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça

D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1858	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:10:00 - [41] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: By definition of the suit you just gave I would call it a brawler (personally), but you are right the Minmatar suits and respective weaponry is all about the controllig the engagement. If a Minmatar is engaging you chances are your already dead, you just don't know it yet. However that's not to say the Minnie suits couldn't do wih a facelift. We need a better slot layout, 4/4 would be perfect, also a buff to either shield regen or regulation would be nice, especially since they gave BOTH to caldari if anything regen is the more minmatar of the two as minmatar is more capable of stalling for time to wait out the delay wheras caldari is more focused on that permiter and holding ground by using cover and never letting thier shields drop using cover to wait out the 2-3 seconds to regain shields then popping out from cover to shoot again keeping constant pressure on. you can make a minmatar suit have some really good regen however in that 5th high slot (assault) to compensate without losing out too much (costs you a low slot for cpu mod in the worse case) i really really like the minmatar suit how it is, and any changes are more likely to make it at caldari clone and worse at what its currently good at. the problem we face right now isnt with the suit, its with the current tactics and metagame or rather the lack of tactics and metagame. this causes people to use all suits in roughly the same ways becuase EHP and zerg tactics are the simplest easyest to understand and easyest to use stratagies. Player skill and suit design are teo different things. If you are simply better than another player you can win with almost anything. But if they have relatively decent skill compared to yours and a better suit you May lose alot of engagements. Speed balances with stamina. Ehp balances with regen. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1931	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:10:00 - [42] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: D legendary hero wrote: say that to the inviso-scouts. scouts are positional masters. since scouts have lower profiles and speed. and any races scout can do this. so, no. minmatar ARENOT the masters of position. when you compair them to the same suits of the same teir, their speed is marginal at best. however, since assault suits and heavies are desinged to brawl, their is an issue. the speed is nice, but not enough to give a significant advantage. scouts = speed not all assaults and heavys are designed to brawl... only amaar and gallente are. caldari is perimiter control, they excel at creating, maintaining and advancing a battle line through range and use of cover to regen shields. sure you have sort of a point, scouts of any race are great at positional advantage, but minmatar as an entire race is. meaning only minmatar have a positional advantage logi, only minmatar have a positional advantage assault, only minmatar have all those other boxes checked in ADDITION to scout. in order to get the same speed advantage as minmatar you have to give up your suits other advantages, and even then it will lose out. that "marginal at best" advantage gives me a minmatar assault that runs at 8.77m/s while a caldari suit cant get that high or higher without giving up its advantages, making it worse if it trys to acomplish the same thing. i can tell that your one of those types that trys to brawl with minmatar suits... and that completly and tottaly explains your opinion. as someone who hates the brawling playstyle and prefers something a little more unorthadox there is no suit that performs better then minmatar. If speed isnt giving you enough of an advantage, your simply not using your speed correctly. i ******* outrun scouts. Have you noticed that the description on allsentinels are the same? I have been advancing increasing the reatorative abilities of minmatar to aid them in hit and run. They cnt really do this. Again, you must understand that movement apeed and run apeed are not the same thing. Movement soeed atays the same regardless of how many kincats you have. Right now minmatar have a movement speed that is .3 m/s higher than Valente and caldari. The fastest thing in this game are bullets and with low ehp, loa recovery and margonal speed you cannot win engagements. You are correct that positioning and timing play key roles in taking out enemies. However these are tactics. Your op simply reenforced that to play minmatar you kust be a better player than your opponenta. But, if you have to be better than them to Qin youbwould be more effective in a caldari or galente suit. As far as the suits and their design goes we both know what scouts, assaults, and heavies are designed for. They Each have inique qualities. Ir heavies Galente rep and tank. Amar tank Caldari shield recharge and have long range weaponry. Lorewise minmatar are supposed to be close range fighters (Valente are close range too). The minmatar sentinel is not fast ebough to keep up with m+¬dium frames, nor does it have high regen. So what does it do? What positioning is a heavy doing against a faster m+¬dium frame? Especailly with poor passives? Comparing suits you can See the inequality. strafe speed. and kin cats. i can duck and weave through cover in a heavy vs heavy fight better in a minmatar suit then any other suit. in a fight you arnt moving forwards (movment speed) your movign side to side, backwards, and in all directions, so that strafe speed actually does make a difference that everyone forgets about. aim assist messes this up a bit but messing with cover makes it useful again. my heavy sprints as fast as a medium frame :P and lets be hoenst your not using movement speed itself too much in a firefight your strafing and using cover to your advantage. the sprint speed lets you switch cover faster and take advantage of miss steps of your oponents EASYER. its not that you cant do it in other suits, its that its harder to do it in other suits. minmatar suits maximise it. i can own in a slightly modified 350HP starter minmatar fit with a basic combat rifle... i can do 10x beter with an actual proper fit though. minmatar is the difference between being sucessful 8/10ths of the time and being successful 9/10ths of the time, if your min maxing the hell out of the advantage then there is NO substitute and every other suit will drag you down. its not that the other suits cant do it, its that minmatar is just plain better at it. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:14:00 - [43] - Quote Sorry Hero, I use the Min sentinel and i can keep up with people. It's fits well for my playstile. Nothing better than watch an assault hiding for reload his weapon and when he pop up again he find my HMG straight in to his face. If we are talking for a speed little buff, yeah i'm all with you. Talking about the Sentinels i think the speed of the MIn. Heavy BASIC frame is the right value. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:18:00 - [44] - Quote Also, there are some people out there that play to have fun, to have some challenge.... i know that in a world of FOTM spammers and BLUE Don this may sound revolutionary, but is true. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
D legendary hero Ultramarine Corp 1858	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:25:00 - [45] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed. Yeah I know how powerfull these suits are but the majority here thinks evrything should play the same with tons of HP etc. No creativity in playstyles...so they start whining that suit x has noot 1000hp and is UP because of that... the problem is that other suits have 10000eho and can stil do my job better. Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Aszazel R 0 N 1 N 180	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:31:00 - [46] - Quote I believe minimatars scouts should get a PG buff, other than that, they are EXTREMELY powerful in the right hands. They are the only suits that can OHK a proto heavy with knives. I went Gal scout because its the only suit I have played for the last 7 months but as soon as I finish maxxing out my core skills I will be trusting in rust next. Not to mention 2 sec hacks.
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 849	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:34:00 - [47] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Player skill and suit design are teo different things. If you are simply better than another player you can win with almost anything. But if they have relatively decent skill compared to yours and a better suit you May lose alot of engagements. Speed balances with stamina. Ehp balances with regen. Nope D legendary hero wrote: the problem is that other suits have 10000eho and can stil do my job better. Also nope, you obviously didn't read the OP. Fixing swarms
The Infected One Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 1319	Posted - 2014.04.15 19:34:00 - [48] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed. THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE! +1 to you sir! I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Boot Booter Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 514	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:33:00 - [49] - Quote Ziiro Celeste wrote: Tweaksz wrote: Hooray for bad grammer... "GRAMMAR" "AR" not "ER" ugh Personally when I see any Minmatar suit, the first thing that goes through my head is "glass suit" and I know I'm about to get a free, easy kill. Well you clearly have never run into me then SMG Specialist
bear90211 Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 198	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:44:00 - [50] - Quote UGH yet ANOTHER UP, OP, Not UP/OP thread. STOP MAKING THESE! KEEP YOUR IDEAS TO YOSELF. its just clogging up the already 4000 page clogged madness even bigger. CCP DEV's need to destroy locked threads that are of NO value now to clean the forum. My sig is suuper old.. now i rip faces with my HMG. looking for logies yo.btw #tacos

Doctor Day THE SUPERHEROS 70	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:47:00 - [51] - Quote gosh,its not like i can make a Winmatar scout suit with my jumping MD ablity and my powerful nova knives going into the backs of hackers Obvious troll is Obvious
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1940	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:10:00 - [52] - Quote for those saying other suits can do it better concider this. to truly use speed to its fullest you CANNOT BRICK TANK, no plates, or at the very least only ferroscale. NOW try to build a dropsuit thats as fast and still maintains the HP, fitting, stamiuna regen, and all the other bonuses that come with a minmatar suit in this setup. you cant do it. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2754	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:54:00 - [53] - Quote Chance Ghos wrote: caldari is perimiter control, they excel at creating, maintaining and advancing a battle line through range and use of cover to regen shields This sounds all great in theory and on paper blah blah blah. However, there multiple problems with this statement 1.) This form of shield passive slaying playstyle does not exist in PC because it does not work. 2.) If someone is going to br perimeter they're either going to be a logi or a commando 3.) I get what you're saying, but the current maps and game mechanics don't allow what you're proposing As for the Minmatar portion, I agree with almost everything you're saying. The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1940	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:07:00 - [54] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Chance Ghos wrote: caldari is perimiter control, they excel at creating, maintaining and advancing a battle line through range and use of cover to regen shields This sounds all great in theory and on paper blah blah blah. However, there multiple problems with this statement 1.) This form of shield passive slaying playstyle does not exist in PC because it does not work. 2.) If someone is going to br perimeter they're either going to be a logi or a commando 3.) I get what you're saying, but the current maps and game mechanics don't allow what you're proposing As for the Minmatar portion, I agree with almost everything you're saying. PC tactics right now are reduced to a zerg... right now PC is nothing more then an unorganised gathering of solo players using basic stratagies and tactics (zerg and spam) the most tactical thing about how the top teams play right now is where they put their uplinks.... the problem you see isnt with the playstyle, its that your pictureing the game under solo mechanics, solo players fighting solo players, try making a perimiter based squad tactic, or better yet team tactic. It works, it just requires more squad and team based tactics then are currently used. whoever can pull off these higher level tactics first will be able to jumpstart and actually create a metagame. ive used and organised smaller squad level tests of crap like this, and while its nowhere near refined due to my lack of resources and well lack of giving a **, ive fleshed it out enough to understand how to counter the current **** non exsistant metagame with it. right now DNS is the best not becuase of tactics, but because they have collected the best solo players in the game. those solo players work together but not in clear tactical moves, its a mess. ive been on the top teams, ive listened to the comms, i know the strats, tactics, communications, everything. and its all a joke. but it does work simply becuase the players are better. The real metagame hasnt even started yet. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Gaurdian Satyr Glitched Connection 99	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:33:00 - [55] - Quote Nobody want to think in this game and the specialty of everything Alot of people need to go bak to CoD and halo -holds arms in O- throw it in the story basket bro
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1026	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:48:00 - [56] - Quote I laugh at this. OP is deluded if he thinks that min got positional advantage. .3m/sec in speed bonus is negated by a rail charge traveling 1500 m/sec. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1941	Posted - 2014.04.16 06:27:00 - [57] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: I laugh at this. OP is deluded if he thinks that min got positional advantage. .3m/sec in speed bonus is negated by a rail charge traveling 1500 m/sec. i always seem to have a 1-1.5 m/s advantage :P makes a big difference I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 295	Posted - 2014.04.16 06:31:00 - [58] - Quote finally. someone who understands minmatarr. also thank the federation not all of you are the amarrian scum's slaves. oenday you will all be free. my minmatarr borthers in arms. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1281	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:33:00 - [59] - Quote Jastad wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. lol minmatar sentinel 3.645 m/s gallente sentinel 3.465 m/s yes, that 0.2 m/s more will make you ninja evade all damage for sure. deluded scrubs are deluded
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1943	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:38:00 - [60] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Jastad wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. lol minmatar sentinel 3.645 m/s gallente sentinel 3.465 m/s yes, that 0.2 m/s more will make you ninja evade all damage for sure. deluded scrubs are deluded armor plates lower strafe speed :P I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING

Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8427	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:42:00 - [61] - Quote These people will always underestimate speed. They can't see past the RAW EHP RAWR. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3468	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:59:00 - [62] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Minmatar are KINGS of positional advantage. i chose where i fight i chose when i fight i chose where your standing i chose where im standing i choose to shoot you in the back and run when you turn around, only to start shooting you in the back again from a different direction. If i sence the fight is going bad, i ******* run for it. If you are farming my blues... i farm you farming my blues. Minmatar are the best suit for controlling an engaement, from positions to flanks, to manuvering to disengageing a bad fight minmatar control it all. As minmatar if you end up in a bad fight its because you screwed up not because the suit underperformed. It has a very high skill cap mostly due to its lower EHP and the fact that its proper use relies heavily on the tactical planning of the user. "But anything minmatar can do X can do better!" nope, that speed and now that staminma regeneration is absolutly KEY to positional advantage, maintaining .5-1.5m/s advantage over an oposing force is HUGE. other suits have to expend alot of their suits other resources to compair and at that point they lose all the other advantages their native suit brings to the table in exchange, leaving minmatar with the advantage still. Positional advantage is a complicated mistriss with a REALLY high margin of error, its no easy mode but when you start using it to your advantage you start to figure out that only minmatar can truly live up to your standards. dont get into a stand up firefight, lose and then call minmatar underpowered... its not the suit its you. you picked a bad fight, you stayed to long, you commited to soon, you screwed it up. Minmatar suits (assault especially) rely on your ability to manuver and position yourself relative to your oponents, they excel in gaining and maintaining positional advantage and losing a fight in the suit is usually becuase you picked a bad position, failed to move where or when you should have, or alowed yourself to get outflanked and overrun. all of wich arnt the suits fault... its yours. Its not a brawling suit, dont treat it like one and you wont be disapointed. You are never going to convince the bad players they are simply bad. And the majority of players are, in fact, god awful.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1946	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:07:00 - [63] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: You are never going to convince the bad players they are simply bad. And the majority of players are, in fact, god awful. i wouldnt say bad as much as i would say that they are follow the leader types. they mirror popular opinion, it happens every day to all of us in some way shape or form. minmatar is only really woth it if you NEED that speed. a good way to tell is putting a kin cat on any suit, and if your suddenly able to do more then you just may be better suited to minmatar suits. Its a particular playstyle and it really only make a difference being minmatar when you can make use of it. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3468	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:17:00 - [64] - Quote No, they are bad. You know this. No need to be kind about it. Fighting games have taught me something important over the years. Most people are trapped at a level they do not see an escape from, and to cope with this inferiority complex they construct a maze of lies and excuses for their mind to become comfortable in. It is far easier than admitting something is wrong with themselves. Forcing a person to admit to a weakness in character is almost always met with a violent reaction, rather than a constructive one. Even if a person is talented they can still live in this prison of excuses. The ones who can escape this prison, with assistance or without, are the rare breed of competitive player you typically see at the top. They share this area with other such individuals who have natural talent, and may or may not have adopted the proper mindset for improvement. But these people are rare. We are talking maybe 1% of any playerbase. Most people are bad. Terrible. God, effing awful. They might or might not be able to improve, but as they do not possess the personality required to escape their own prison, they will likely stay where they are. And that is the why the majority of people say stupid things like "Minmatar suits are bad." Because, excuses.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1949	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:21:00 - [65] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: No, they are bad. You know this. No need to be kind about it. Fighting games have taught me something important over the years. Most people are trapped at a level they do not see an escape from, and to cope with this inferiority complex they construct a maze of lies and excuses for their mind to become comfortable in. It is far easier than admitting something is wrong with themselves. Forcing a person to admit to a weakness in character is almost always met with a violent reaction, rather than a constructive one. Even if a person is talented they can still live in this prison of excuses. The ones who can escape this prison, with assistance or without, are the rare breed of competitive player you typically see at the top. They share this area with other such individuals who have natural talent, and may or may not have adopted the proper mindset for improvement. But these people are rare. We are talking maybe 1% of any playerbase. Most people are bad. Terrible. God, effing awful. They might or might not be able to improve, but as they do not possess the personality required to escape their own prison, they will likely stay where they are. And that is the why the majority of people say stupid things like "Minmatar suits are bad." Because, excuses. i cant help but feel Dunning-Krugar effect has a small part to play as well I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3468	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:30:00 - [66] - Quote I'm almost certain of it.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1283	Posted - 2014.04.16 09:54:00 - [67] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Jastad wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. lol minmatar sentinel 3.645 m/s gallente sentinel 3.465 m/s yes, that 0.2 m/s more will make you ninja evade all damage for sure. deluded scrubs are deluded armor plates lower strafe speed :P and the difference will still be marginal.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1952	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:03:00 - [68] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Jastad wrote: Jack McReady wrote: lets take gallente and minmatar sentinel. according to OPs logic minmatar should be more mobile, right? oh, lets use a kin cat on the gallente suit... look what I have done here, suddenly the gallente sentinel is as mobile as the minmatar sentinel and still has more EHP after full fit. dont belive me? do the math and you will see. basic math, logic and common sense just countered the OPs point and made him look very stupid... now before someone claim, the minmatar sentinel can do this too and fit a kincat, well the gallente sentinel has more slots and the PG for it thus in the end will still be better no matter how you try to turn it. the 7% extra speed accross all minmatar suits is not worth 15% EHP loss after FULL FIT. this was shown and posted millions of times. Strafe speed bro, strafe speed. lol minmatar sentinel 3.645 m/s gallente sentinel 3.465 m/s yes, that 0.2 m/s more will make you ninja evade all damage for sure. deluded scrubs are deluded armor plates lower strafe speed :P and the difference will still be marginal. from practical experiance its really not. I put Kinetic Catalyzers on EVERYTHING
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 711	Posted - 2014.04.16 17:45:00 - [69] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: lol minmatar sentinel 3.645 m/s gallente sentinel 3.465 m/s yes, that 0.2 m/s more will make you ninja evade all damage for sure. deluded scrubs are deluded Stacking plate have a double effect on strafe speed. Sorry, i can see the difference. I'm happy with my min heavy suit. and when CCP remove the snare effect and the sprint bug, i will be more and more happy. I will be happy if CCP buff the Min sentinel speed to match the Min Basic heavy frame. But i can't complain right know. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie


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