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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3894
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 01:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.
First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.
I think there's an option to appease both parties: Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction. These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.
The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.
What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.
No.
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sebastian the huds
Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day
71
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree that my exile assault rifle isn't useful for much anymore, but I'm not giving it up unless I get another weapon bpo equivalent.
Just saying
Yes, I will see you
through the smoke and flames
on the frontlines of war
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
2790
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
I better get 100million for every bpo destruction or I'm going to bring down the economy with my standard and militia fits +¦_+¦
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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Sourdough Muffins
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
112
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only thing unbalanced about the Dust Economy is the Economy itself. When its connected to Eve(in the year 3000) there are going to be major problems. |
Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1793
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Posted - 2014.04.13 01:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs".
Nerdier than thou
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General John Ripper
19878
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just make them into rare collectables. if the game stays this small or keeps decreasing in numbers its a fail game anyways. If it grows then these rare collectables can actually stimulate economic growth. Their prices will increase drastically over time.
Only the richest players will be able to afford them. Rich players who can afford to run proto all day. As they get bought and sold isk keeps changing hands. Large amounts of isk.
If this game grows a few players with bpo's will hardly hurt the economy. But the bpo's themselves can actually be used to stimulate the economy.
Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed.
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JL3Eleven
Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad.
1840
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
BPO's are fancy ISK sinks. Dust needs more ISK sinks.
Looking to buy:
Balac's Modified Assault ck.0
Balac's MRN-30 Submachine Gun
Balac's N-17 Sniper Rifle
Daemons Shotty BPO
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3895
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs".
Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give.
No.
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General John Ripper
19879
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs". Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give. well they could have nerfed them to uselessness but ccp actually manned up and took them out because they would be useless anyways.
CCP gives us the middle finger alot.. You just have to look and see.
Everytime I get a like, another bug is fixed.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3896
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Just make them into rare collectables. if the game stays this small or keeps decreasing in numbers its a fail game anyways. If it grows then these rare collectables can actually stimulate economic growth. Their prices will increase drastically over time.
Only the richest players will be able to afford them. Rich players who can afford to run proto all day. As they get bought and sold isk keeps changing hands. Large amounts of isk.
If this game grows a few players with bpo's will hardly hurt the economy. But the bpo's themselves can actually be used to stimulate the economy.
A BPO amnesty would increase their rarity. Make them even more sought after. It'd even give them a cool backstory:
"Back in the days of yore these precious weapons were a common sight, but alas, now only a handful remain, coveted by peasants and protobears alike"
No.
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Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
699
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs". Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give.
There wasn't anything equivalent, that was the whole point of the removal.
Not to mention they refunded the AUR spent to make said purchase, with some receiving more aur then they spent.
If that's an issue for you, then your entire idea of giving back BPOs for AUR makes little sense. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3896
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 02:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs". Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give. There wasn't anything equivalent, that was the whole point of the removal. Not to mention they refunded the AUR spent to make said purchase, with some receiving more aur then they spent. If that's an issue for you, then your entire idea of giving back BPOs for AUR makes little sense.
I already addressed the refund issue. What value is aurum if the items you purchased it for no longer exist.
My idea makes sense because this one is optional. Nobody's taking these BPOs. We get to decide which option is most appealing.
No.
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LittleCuteBunny
413
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Just make them into rare collectables. if the game stays this small or keeps decreasing in numbers its a fail game anyways. If it grows then these rare collectables can actually stimulate economic growth. Their prices will increase drastically over time.
Only the richest players will be able to afford them. Rich players who can afford to run proto all day. As they get bought and sold isk keeps changing hands. Large amounts of isk.
If this game grows a few players with bpo's will hardly hurt the economy. But the bpo's themselves can actually be used to stimulate the economy.
^
Retired.
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Second Cerberus
Tested In Production
121
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
If this was voluntary, that's fine. Involuntary would be very uncool.
For the record, I think the statements that "BPO's are ruining the economy" have neither data nor common sense to support them.
Like many that have BPO's, I rarely use them. Who really fits their main suit with a militia uplink or shield extender?
Their are a few exceptions of course, such as the LAV's or Exiles but overall their CPU/PG stats are too terrible compared to even STD items.
Saving a few thousand ISK per fit is a non-issue considering the trillions of ISK spent in DUST.
"I don't always test my code, but when I do, I do it in production." - CCP
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Awry Barux
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
1796
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs". Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give. They completely were not replaceable with equivalents, that's why they were removed. The following items were removed:
AUR 4800 Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint AUR 4800 Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint AUR 4800 Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier AUR 4800 Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint
The first is a size of plate that does not exist any more, the second and third are passive shield modules, which don't exist any more, and the last provides a small PG and shield bonus, which is another niche which doesn't exist any more. I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. I doubt anyone bought AUR specifically for those four modules which, let's face it, didn't see much use anyway, which is why CCP didn't include them in the vehicle revamp.
As for BPO removal in general, I'm not worried- the really nice blueprints were all from PSN store packs, which makes it much harder for CCP to mess with them (or so I've heard).
Nerdier than thou
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Vitharr Foebane
Living Like Larry Schwag
1011
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
they will have to pry my Templar BPOs from my cold dead fingers...
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando III Logistics III
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Duran Lex
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
699
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Duran Lex wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Awry Barux wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs". Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give. There wasn't anything equivalent, that was the whole point of the removal. Not to mention they refunded the AUR spent to make said purchase, with some receiving more aur then they spent. If that's an issue for you, then your entire idea of giving back BPOs for AUR makes little sense. I already addressed the refund issue. What value is aurum if the items you purchased it for no longer exist. My idea makes sense because this one is optional. Nobody's taking these BPOs. We get to decide which option is most appealing.
The value of 100 aur is 100 aur regardless of personal opinions of worth changing your perspective. With your logic, I assume you would have been fine with keeping your BPOs even though they were no longer going to be usable.
CCP changed their game. It's stated they will be changing their game. They refunded exactly what you spent. You made the decision to spend real life currency for fantasy money, in a game that can change. That was your decision.
Should Blizzard give me my money back for Diablo 2 after removing the mutliplayer? I wouldn't have bought it if it was just a single player game. The answer is no.
Oh, and I spent cash for my BPO. Not aurum. Are you expecting CCP to start selling out a 100$ to everyone who bought the den merchandise pack?
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J4yne C0bb
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
322
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
What I don't understand is why they are considered a threat to the economy, if CCP does indeed view them that way. Most BPOs are militia grade items anyways, and if I created an actual mil variant of my mil Sever suit, it's not like it's that much more money anyways -- I can make a completely BPO Sever suit for about 450 ISK (since I don't have BPO grenades), but I'm still gonna be making money in any match I play in, since an actual mil variant of that suit is gonna be what, 5000K to 8000K, probably? What's the difference?
Min Logi | aka Punch R0ckgroin, Fatsuit
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Marston VC
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
1665
|
Posted - 2014.04.13 02:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:they will have to pry my Templar BPOs from my cold dead fingers...
Yeahhhhhhh my Templar set is worth over 1.5 billion isk in EVE and 300M isk in dust. I aint given that up for nothing
Marston VC, STB Director
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1227
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
no way i'm giving up my bpo's for any reward. just because you have a few hundred or even thousands of them doesn't mean you should be rewarded and the others who didn't abuse the system punished by having their single set removed for a reward they don't want
there is only one thing in dust that is going to destroy the player market and that is PC farmed isk. it generates hundreds of millions more isk than bpo's save
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
1227
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:they will have to pry my Templar BPOs from my cold dead fingers... Yeahhhhhhh my Templar set is worth over 1.5 billion isk in EVE and 300M isk in dust. I aint given that up for nothing
if they gave me 1.5bil isk in dust as compensation i would be tempted to slum it on proto suits and weapons instead
I will logi the s* out of you
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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DozersMouse XIII
Ultramarine Corp
412
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Posted - 2014.04.13 02:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
you cant have my
skinweave set
blood raider set
templar set
MAG set
militia dropsuit set
militia dropsuit mod set
militia weapon set
militia vehicle mod set
Bacon pancakes makin' bacon pancakes
Take some bacon and I'll put it a pancake
Bacon pancakes thats what it's gonna make
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General12912
Gallente Marine Corps
175
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Posted - 2014.04.13 03:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.
First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.
There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.
I think there's an option to appease both parties: Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction. These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.
The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.
What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.
no. just leave them alone.
and CCP, DONT TOUCH THEM!
givng the option, or even suggesting the option, could result in CCP taking them from us altogether. an that could end up killing their game. a majority of Dust 514's playerbase has BPO's. getting rid of them could result in community backlash and veterans quitting (and veterans are a majority of the playerbase).
Every suit Gk.0 <3
Gallente Federation Patriot
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3899
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Posted - 2014.04.13 03:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
General12912 wrote:no. just leave them alone.
and CCP, DONT TOUCH THEM!
givng the option, or even suggesting the option, could result in CCP taking them from us altogether. an that could end up killing their game. a majority of Dust 514's playerbase has BPO's. getting rid of them could result in community backlash and veterans quitting (and veterans are a majority of the playerbase).
What's wrong with having CCP offer you something for them? And how could such an offer result in CCP taking them altogether?
No.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3899
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Posted - 2014.04.13 03:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Duran Lex wrote:The value of 100 aur is 100 aur regardless of personal opinions of worth changing your perspective.
And with that statement goes any legitimacy you will ever have on any discussion of economics.
No.
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3899
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Posted - 2014.04.13 03:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:They completely were not replaceable with equivalents, that's why they were removed. The following items were removed:
AUR 4800 Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint AUR 4800 Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint AUR 4800 Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier AUR 4800 Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint
The first is a size of plate that does not exist any more, the second and third are passive shield modules, which don't exist any more, and the last provides a small PG and shield bonus, which is another niche which doesn't exist any more. I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. I doubt anyone bought AUR specifically for those four modules which, let's face it, didn't see much use anyway, which is why CCP didn't include them in the vehicle revamp.
As for BPO removal in general, I'm not worried- the really nice blueprints were all from PSN store packs, which makes it much harder for CCP to mess with them (or so I've heard).
Really? A passive shield hardener couldn't have been replaced with an active? An armour plate couldn't have been replaced with that hardener? If the only items you think qualify as "equivalent" are the exact same modules then no wonder you stuggle to think of anything other than a refund.
No.
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Travis Stanush
GunFall Mobilization
98
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:09:00 -
[27] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:no way i'm giving up my bpo's for any reward. just because you have a few hundred or even thousands of them doesn't mean you should be rewarded and the others who didn't abuse the system punished by having their single set removed for a reward they don't want
there is only one thing in dust that is going to destroy the player market and that is PC farmed isk. it generates hundreds of millions more isk than bpo's save Don't forget they can do it much quicker too... Damn PC |
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
1074
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
imo this isn't about getting a equivalent refund or similar. It's about taking away something I paid for in some way. Yes I know I don't own jack in CCP's universe but that doesn't change the fact that I paid for it.
The discussion that we have here about BPOs ruining the economy and CCP not really wanting the BPOs here is the same discussion that EVE has with Tech2 BPOs - and tbh the T2 BPOs are really not a problem beyond jealousy.
Sure the T2 BPO makes items cheaper than via invention, but the overall return profit wise is larger with invention than the BPO since you can only do one item at a time with the BPO while invention can do up to 11 at the same time thus giving you a better return over time.
Sure you can't exactly compare the two since one generates free fits vs someone that has to buy hers or his. But really, how many mercs run full BPO fits after 3 months?
I run BPO fits when I'm lazy playing because I don't want to lose ISK, but any time I feel like "playing" there's no BPO in my fit and I seriously doubt there is for others either - especially not KDR minded people since BPO vs KDR don't really go hand in hand.
Does BPOs ruin the economy? No, if anything like others said, it's in fact a big ISK sink, and will only become more of one as people will start pay more and more for the BPOs, be it for collectors or for people that just wants to be able to lazy run a free fit every now and then.
So what can CCP do? - Create a player run economy, allow the BPOs to stay, introduce BPCs that players can buy - and let us manufacture the dropsuits and similar found on the market using said BPOs and BPCs - BUT WAIT! THEN THE BPO OWNERS WILL HAVE FREE PRODUCTION OVER THE BPC OWNERS!!! OMG! - Look at my comment about Tech2 BPOs in EVE and you'll see how they don't really benefit that much from this.
From the collector perspective they better not remove them. Plus I paid for the BPO because I wanted it. Make it useless should you need, but they better not remove it.
/c
DUSTBoard
DUST Server Status
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Lucrezia LeGrand
463
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
I feel like BPO's keep coming up as a controversial issue once every two months like clockwork. I would agree to CCP offering us something to destroy our BPO's if (and only if) it was completely optional, and didn't negate us being able to sell/ buy BPO's off of the market.
Besides, how long is CCP planning on having Dust 514? 3 years? 5 years? Forever? BPO's can no longer be purchased and as the player base grows, and time passes, they will only become rarer. Already most players with BPO's tend to play with other items or use just 1 or 2 BPO's. Full BPO fittings are rare to come across. I believe CCP took them off the market because they were a dead end to monetary success. Which will give you more money in the long run? multiple purchases of Aurum Caldari Assault Suits or a one time purchase of a Caldari Assault Suit BPO?
If CCP cared about the economy they would have done something about PC corps.
Thale groupie (not the gun, but the man).
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Sourdough Muffins
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
121
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Posted - 2014.04.13 04:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lucrezia LeGrand wrote:If CCP cared about the economy they would have done something about PC corps.
Pretty much this x1000 |
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