we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.

They removed BPOs of items that they were removing from the game, specifically a few vehicle modules when the vehicle revamp came out. That's very different than "zomg CCP is taking our BPOs".

Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give.

Just make them into rare collectables.
if the game stays this small or keeps decreasing in numbers its a fail game anyways.
If it grows then these rare collectables can actually stimulate economic growth. Their prices will increase drastically over time.

Only the richest players will be able to afford them. Rich players who can afford to run proto all day. As they get bought and sold isk keeps changing hands. Large amounts of isk.

If this game grows a few players with bpo's will hardly hurt the economy. But the bpo's themselves can actually be used to stimulate the economy.

Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give.

There wasn't anything equivalent, that was the whole point of the removal.

Not to mention they refunded the AUR spent to make said purchase, with some receiving more aur then they spent.

If that's an issue for you, then your entire idea of giving back BPOs for AUR makes little sense.

Just make them into rare collectables.
if the game stays this small or keeps decreasing in numbers its a fail game anyways.
If it grows then these rare collectables can actually stimulate economic growth. Their prices will increase drastically over time.

Only the richest players will be able to afford them. Rich players who can afford to run proto all day. As they get bought and sold isk keeps changing hands. Large amounts of isk.

If this game grows a few players with bpo's will hardly hurt the economy. But the bpo's themselves can actually be used to stimulate the economy.

Oh not one of you people. The BPOs were easily replaceable with equivalents from the new content, and some people only bought aurum in the first place to get their hands on those very BPOs. Without them their refund was worthless. It was the single biggest middle finger to their customers I've ever seen CCP give.

I already addressed the refund issue. What value is aurum if the items you purchased it for no longer exist.

My idea makes sense because this one is optional. Nobody's taking these BPOs. We get to decide which option is most appealing.

they will have to pry my Templar BPOs from my cold dead fingers...

Yeahhhhhhh my Templar set is worth over 1.5 billion isk in EVE and 300M isk in dust. I aint given that up for nothing

CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.

First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.

There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.

I think there's an option to appease both parties:
Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction.
These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.

The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.

What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.

no. just leave them alone.

and CCP, DONT TOUCH THEM!

givng the option, or even suggesting the option, could result in CCP taking them from us altogether. an that could end up killing their game. a majority of Dust 514's playerbase has BPO's. getting rid of them could result in community backlash and veterans quitting (and veterans are a majority of the playerbase).

The value of 100 aur is 100 aur regardless of personal opinions of worth changing your perspective.

They completely were not replaceable with equivalents, that's why they were removed. The following items were removed:

AUR 4800 Militia 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates Blueprint
AUR 4800 Militia Shield Regenerator Blueprint
AUR 4800 Militia Shield Resistance Amplifier
AUR 4800 Militia Power Diagnostic System Blueprint

The first is a size of plate that does not exist any more, the second and third are passive shield modules, which don't exist any more, and the last provides a small PG and shield bonus, which is another niche which doesn't exist any more. I think you're blowing this way out of proportion. I doubt anyone bought AUR specifically for those four modules which, let's face it, didn't see much use anyway, which is why CCP didn't include them in the vehicle revamp.

As for BPO removal in general, I'm not worried- the really nice blueprints were all from PSN store packs, which makes it much harder for CCP to mess with them (or so I've heard).

no way i'm giving up my bpo's for any reward. just because you have a few hundred or even thousands of them doesn't mean you should be rewarded and the others who didn't abuse the system punished by having their single set removed for a reward they don't want

there is only one thing in dust that is going to destroy the player market and that is PC farmed isk. it generates hundreds of millions more isk than bpo's save

If CCP cared about the economy they would have done something about PC corps.

Really? A passive shield hardener couldn't have been replaced with an active? An armour plate couldn't have been replaced with that hardener?
If the only items you think qualify as "equivalent" are the exact same modules then no wonder you stuggle to think of anything other than a refund.

Pretty much this x1000

And with that statement goes any legitimacy you will ever have on any discussion of economics.

if they gave me 1.5bil isk in dust as compensation i would be tempted to slum it on proto suits and weapons instead

No... Just no... The Templar set is priceless to me for the smexy looks alone and not even an infinite supply of proto suits would excuse the loss of my Templar set

no way i'm giving up my bpo's for any reward. just because you have a few hundred or even thousands of them doesn't mean you should be rewarded and the others who didn't abuse the system punished by having their single set removed for a reward they don't want

there is only one thing in dust that is going to destroy the player market and that is PC farmed isk. it generates hundreds of millions more isk than bpo's save

And biomssing alts

CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.

First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.

There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.

I think there's an option to appease both parties:
Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction.
These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.

The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.

What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.

They can't refund items that we bought with real money on limited availability sales... the militia BPOs are different from e.g. exile or dren collectors items.

NO! FK NO!

They can give me a cash refund so I can leave......
The bpo's are the ONLY thing keeping me here.
That and selling my 900 officer weapons.

For the record, Bpo's don't ruin ANYTHING. They are milita garbage that half the people don't even use anymore.
I have full templar set........garbage
Skinweaves......... worse then garbage
Got spoiled on proto........ :(
If they ever took my sever, I would rage quit. That's my money maker.
Bpo's are no different then starter gear.

Out of context perhaps.

But when referring to your personal opinion that, just because you "feel" that the value of the aurum was lessened by the removal of the BPO you received a refund for, doesn't mean it's fact.

The value of the aurum hasn't changed because you personally[/b wouldn't spend it on something that isn't a BPO.

Hence my statement. [b]Your personal opinion of its worth doesn't change its value.

Wo wo wo!

Chill out man!

Nobody's saying "take our BPOs".

What is so objectionable to CCP offering us something for them?

In order to return a profit on Isk spent for my BPO(55 mill) and how much the new LAV's cost, i will have to destroy 2k+ BPO lavs to have saved any ISK.

My BPO Recruit SMG is pretty much a M512 with less Clipsize, and my Recruit Medframe is just a modified mlt suit(which can hit 900hp, but that's not really useful)

CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.

First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.

There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.

I think there's an option to appease both parties:
Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction.
These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.

The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.

What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.

but bpo's don't effect the dust economy....want proof?

ancient exiles.... they make the most isk in dust right now with pc and they don't use bpo's
teamplayers before them...

if ccp is really concerned about the state of the economy in dust they should fix pc and leave my effing bpo's alone....

these threads need to stop. For real .There not getting rid of BPO"S. You just want your money back so you can quit the game and loose nothing .Thats all you're suggesting. Fucken go back in a hole.

Eh no. I have several boos that i bought for real cash on the premise that they would never run out. You can't just take away or remove something that is bought for real money but they can if you bought them with arum.

Has anyone read my post? Does anyone understand what an amnesty is?

Nobody's asking CCP to take away your BPOs.

Seriously am I living in some bloody twilight zone where everything I say means something else?

We have read your postbut giving the option to hand bpos over volinterraly would leave the door open for the complete bpo removal.

Has anyone read my post? Does anyone understand what an amnesty is?

Nobody's asking CCP to take away your BPOs.

Seriously am I living in some bloody twilight zone where everything I say means something else?

Tell me what they could possibly give me to replace the Templar set... I would be ok with getting a permanent but limited uses per day item but the complete removal my Templar BPOs is UNACCEPTABLE

CCP doesn't like BPOs. They're viewed as a threat and/or imbalancing factor to the Dust economy.

First we saw them removed from sale, then we saw some forcibly removed from player inventories.

There's a conflict between CCP's distaste for these items, and our eagerness to trade them in the upcoming player market.

I think there's an option to appease both parties:
Similar to weapon, and other contraband amnesties sometimes enacted by authorities, CCP could offer rewards to players who turn in their BPOs for destruction.
These rewards could be lump sums of aurum or isk, or they could be bundles of FW boosters or disposable equivalents of the BPOs themselves.

The details are beside the point. What is important is that with such an act, CCP would get to minimise the effects of BPOs on Dust's economy, and we players would get to cash in on all those duplicates & unuseds that have sat in our merc cupboards for months and months.

What do you think? Is this an idea that appeals to you? I really think it'd be a great way to bridge the gap between our interests, and if it gets much support, maybe it could come to fruition.

Then decline if they offer you a trade. Sheesh.

Just don't let players with BPOs trade them or sell them once the open market begins.


Munch

I don't think BPOs are a threat to the economy either, but your argument is a non-sequitur. The 1% aren't the people who benefit from infinite cheap items, so their low use of them makes no difference.

But that's beside the point. It doesn't matter if they're really a threat, only that CCP thinks they are. And this suggestion gives them an option to reduce their numbers.

ccp thinks a lot of things that are wrong and they don't have a good track record of doing the right thing by this game.

giving them options to reduce something that has no real effect on the game draws their attention away from the real problems.

pc is a real problem and holds this game back or any meaningful connection to eve.... give them some options on fixing that instead of non issues...

But CCP's approach to BPOs IS an issue. Their removal from player inventories proves that. Look at all the people wanting to trade them on the forums already. What if trading them is restricted when the player market deploys?

then you demand they cut that crap out instead of offering ways for them to disenfranchise us more....

and another thing, think about this, if ccp is so afraid of bpo's why were they still giving them out with the CE and recruit rewards AFTER they removed four of them?

I think youre simply misinformed. ccp has just had so many personel changes with this game they don't know what side is up anymore nor where to take this game next and all youre doing is confusing them.

But CCP's approach to BPOs IS an issue. Their removal from player inventories proves that. Look at all the people wanting to trade them on the forums already. What if trading them is restricted when the player market deploys?

That's exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid.

That isn't out of context. You just doubled down on that context.

The only value ANY currency has is the value assigned to at the point of an exchange. If this were not the case, currency would not exist at all.

How is this confusing CCP, how am I misinformed, and how would offering players something disenfranchise them?

Correct.

And as I've stated for the 3rd time now, your personal opinions haven't changed the value of aur nor will they ever change its value.

I would say I'm surprised you aren't comprehending this, but after continuing to read your responses in this thread....

^ This is probably the core sticking point.
I like my BPOs for the looks, not the free ISK it brings.

Now, the question you should ask yourself, would you accept an infinite supply of a Templar advanced or prototype suites (that look exactly like the BPO), but you had to pay an ISK (or material) cost to produce them?

This is still a BPO at that point. They have just changed how BPO's work to require an isk cost to manufacture them.

I wouldn't mind having to pay isk to utilise a BPO, assuming it's less isk than buying the same item from NPC seed. And there was a player market, so I could sell the items for a profit to everyone else without sexy looks if I wanted.

There would also have to be a time component of course so one person couldn't supply the entire market and selling the items becomes a trade off between personal use & sales.

So, reliant on a player market, BPO's requiring cost (To reflect materials) works for me. As a note, unless I can't read statistics properly, the Templar suits are actually basic suits. The Templar equipment certainly is basic.

your confusing them because this is a non issue yet you speak of it like ccp should be concerned about bpo's

I think youre misinformed because I don't recal ccp saying anything about them being a "threat" on that they are not working as intended... they were removed from the market so problem solved.. and you never answered my question on this note...if ccp is so afraid of bpo's why were they still giving them out with the CE and recruit rewards AFTER they removed four of them?

lastly anything other than having our bpo's untouched and free to trade as was intended when ccp sold them to us disenfranchises us.

I've never spoken like CCP should be concerned. I've said the opposite several times. All I have done is acknowledge that CCP are concerned. Be that rational or not.

An economic item not working as intended = threat to the economy. It doesn't have to be a major threat. It doesn't have to compete with the threat of PC or EVE isk.
Your question is a little redundant given that BPOs were removed from the market in the first place. The fact that a few still remain available is moot.

You didn't answer my question. How does offering players something disenfranchise them? Your supposed answer was filled with caveats.

im sorry chunky, but your replies are disjointed and your conclusions are alarmingly dim witted

I m afraid I must end this relationship....

This is still a BPO at that point. They have just changed how BPO's work to require an isk cost to manufacture them.

I wouldn't mind having to pay isk to utilise a BPO, assuming it's less isk than buying the same item from NPC seed. And there was a player market, so I could sell the items for a profit to everyone else without sexy looks if I wanted.

There would also have to be a time component of course so one person couldn't supply the entire market and selling the items becomes a trade off between personal use & sales.

So, reliant on a player market, BPO's requiring cost (To reflect materials) works for me. As a note, unless I can't read statistics properly, the Templar suits are actually basic suits. The Templar equipment certainly is basic.

Right. I'm sure it has nothing to do with me relpying succinctly to each of your arguments.

I think that ChribbaX's comparison of Dust BPOs to EVE T2 BPOs is a very good analogy--the problem mostly boils down to jealousy, and doesn't have much of an effect on the economy. Assuming manufacturing is even brought to Dust, having Dust BPOs function the same way as T2 BPOs in EVE pretty much solves everyone's problems (except the jellies). Also, I'm almost certainly not going to participate in manufacturing when/if it's available, and I'm sure the same is true for other mercs, so again, any feared, massive upset to the (as yet non-existent) economy seems a little premature.

Many people say that BPOs undermine the notion of "Risk vs. ISK". I do not think this is the case because, as other posters have mentioned, running BPOs is suboptimal for maintaining or improving one's KDR; since KDR (and WP, and possibly other numbers if CCP ever introduces more robust statistics) is also quite important to numerous players, they are inclined to run higher-tiered gear as running BPOs (ie, militia and standard level gear) definitely increases the risk of marring one's stats. It think most folks here will agree that, for the most part, the better gear a merc fits, the better the merc typically performs.

It's also worth noting that until at least the middle or end of January, the 'Exile' Assault Rifle BPO was available on the marketplace, via whatever AUR pack it came in. So, at least one BPO was available well after CCP started changing their stance on them and people started to get their feathers ruffled.

Since it does mostly seem to be an issue of jealousy, I'd say there's a few reasonable solutions. 1) What ChribbaX suggested; 2) make BPOs non-tradeable and have future events/marketplace packs where newer players can procure them (this mitigates jealousy, and since a 'Dren' AR = 'Exile' AR = 'Toxic' AR with different skins, who really cares?); 3) reinstate BPOs as normal, AUR-purchasable items, making them unusable for manufacturing or trading (this way, any Dust-side Ash Ketchums can collect 'em all and everyone feels warm fuzzies for being treated the same, regardless of when they started playing).

Or, here's an even more daring thought (but it requires CCP to provide a complete set of racial heavy weapons): since starter fits suck bwawls anyway, why not grant each merc a set of racial basic/standard level BPOs for building out whatever suits they dern well please? This would make selecting a race somewhat more significant (it determines what your free, "starter" BPOs will be), would remove the worthless starter fits from the game, and would make basic gear more relevant. If every new merc started the game with a set of racial BPOs (say, a basic suit in each size with a basic 'nade, racial light, heavy, and sidearm weapons; race-aligned tanking mods, etc.) they could mix and match, and it would make the new player experience much better, since trying to put together a fit with the starter suits is next to impossible without decent skills. Of course, all these BPOs would be available on the market, so interested parties could acquire each race's BPOs.

I have said much of this in the past and agree with every word.... chunk doesn't seem to understand this, so I'm awaiting his lol reply to your sound logic.

Nothing said there contradicted anything I've said.

Sounds more like you're hanging around here on butthurt.