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Are Heavies OP???

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John ShepardIII G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 201	Posted - 2014.04.12 05:26:00 - [1] - Quote I hear a lot of people saying heavies are OP, and a lot saying they need a buff. So what do you think??? I believe heavies are pretty much fine where there are at right now. I mean there resistances should work on there shield and armor instead of just one or the other. Because there not even resistant to all guns so atleast make the ones they are resistant to apply to there shields and armor, but that's just what I think. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN Join out pub channel G0DS AM0NG MEN :D
SPACE SYPHILIS Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2014.04.12 05:29:00 - [2] - Quote They are perfect and should be left alone. Now balance the suits around the the two spectrum's of suits the heavy and light and that is how you will get balance. The assault needs work and so do logis and this will solve the suit issue, now onto weapon.
Adell Shinzumakami Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 243	Posted - 2014.04.12 05:36:00 - [3] - Quote The way I use heavies can be considered extremely OP when compared to Shotgun cloaking scouts.... I GÖÑ RoadKill Closed BETA vet - CLOAKING
Ace Boone G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 106	Posted - 2014.04.12 05:39:00 - [4] - Quote SPACE SYPHILIS wrote: They are perfect and should be left alone. Now balance the suits around the the two spectrum's of suits the heavy and light and that is how you will get balance. The assault needs work and so do logis and this will solve the suit issue, now onto weapon. Logi's are in a good place. Slayer is still possible, support is preferred. Assaults are damn near useless now, however. meh.
Cinnamon267 139	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:21:00 - [5] - Quote The range of the HMG bothers me a little. But, to be honest, heavies are fine. There's nothing wrong with them.
KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 171	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:24:00 - [6] - Quote John ShepardIII wrote: I hear a lot of people saying heavies are OP, and a lot saying they need a buff. So what do you think??? I believe heavies are pretty much fine where there are at right now. I mean there resistances should work on there shield and armor instead of just one or the other. Because there not even resistant to all guns so atleast make the ones they are resistant to apply to there shields and armor, but that's just what I think. I agree with you that heavies are about right at the moment. I run a gk.0 Sentinel and when I have a good logi behind me I am quite hard to kill which is the way it is meant to be I believe. If my logi goes down or I am caught in the open on my own then I go down quick enough. So in my opinion no, heavies are not OP. A good heavy/logi combo can give the illusion of being OP but that is because quite a few players just don't think about what they are doing. In what world should you be able to bum rush a HMG head on and win? I've had shotgun scouts and assaults try to solo me head on and that just isn't going to work in 99% of cases. I think heavies are where they need to be right now. If people feel heavies are OP then they need to switch up their tactics, perhaps run with a squad instead of alone and stop whining when you get shredded by something that is akin to a small mobile defense installation
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 273	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:27:00 - [7] - Quote They are immense fun to both play as and play against. Nothing gets your attention over squad comms as your defending point like "heavy incoming!". Very little compares to actually being that heavy and spooling up the HMG for some clone carnage. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
LudiKure ninda DROID EXILES General Tso's Alliance 84	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:28:00 - [8] - Quote No heavy is not OP, they should be quite though. But the HMG,.. dont know,it-¦s powerfull, but it is a MINIGUN Solo player.. SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED!

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 1067	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:28:00 - [9] - Quote EVERYTHING IS OP! DUSTSearch DUSTBoard DUST Server Status

Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 480	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:33:00 - [10] - Quote The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m.

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 358	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:34:00 - [11] - Quote There was a big crazy push to nerf the living @#$@ out of heavies at the start of this build. Now that the community has play tested it for a few weeks some of the heavies could use a micro buff. There was one build everyone wanted to do flat out nerf to but in playing ambush we found just moving the battle away form these heavies they can't even get in range to kill anyone. The run time is slow and boring and the straight up nerf to LAVs makes using these heavies even less important. Plus CCP STILL NEEDS TO RELEASE THE KILL/DEATH STATS ON THE FORGE GUN TO SEE WHY IT BEEN NERFED SO HARD IN RELATION TO OTHER GUNS! THEY ARE JUST PROMOTING ONE GROUP OF PLAYERS AND DISREGARDING ANOTHER COMPLETELY IN A FORM OF FAVORTISM. (Uggg.. how many freaking times will I have to rewrite this!!!) Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
DEZKA DIABLO THE FOOTCLAN 618	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:34:00 - [12] - Quote Burst hmg is a bit over the top, 1000 damage, one burst this morning, bit aggravating but the heavy is fine, BUT NOVA KNIVES NOW NEED A BUFF! They are the heavies Bain an should not take more than one charge hit an maybe a punch in the head, not two charges and half a clip off my ish smg, that's just bull$hit My remotes got NERFED cuz you whine like a B!+Gé¼[-]!
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 532	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:38:00 - [13] - Quote minmatar one is pretty squishy. the lack of hp for the minimal speed increase isn't justified, the main issue is the HMG is back to being pretty awesome again now. i had a boundless hmg take me down from 72m other week (bout 400hp) i think the other 3 racial heavies could do with a small hp drop. with the various resistances now they can be too tough to take down. many times i've seen a proto heavy with a logi storm into bunch of 5-6 assault guys and come out the other side without much need for the logi Rolling with the punches
m twiggz Pradox One Proficiency V. 495	Posted - 2014.04.12 11:45:00 - [14] - Quote I believe heavies are in a good place. Stupid heavies are easy to kill, smart heavies are beyond difficult to kill. It mostly comes down to player skill, as much of this game does. Most people are too egotistical to admit they are not so good at Dust so they call for nerfs or buffs, IMO. Which then ruins the game for those of us who have finally come to the conclusion that things may have finally reached a decent balance.
Jacques Cayton II Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 756	Posted - 2014.04.12 12:28:00 - [15] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m. What? Dude hmgs past 50m can't hit **** unless they have been shooting at you for 4-5 seconds We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Tek Hound Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 243	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:09:00 - [16] - Quote Skill >majority of dust community so yes their op
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 145	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:11:00 - [17] - Quote Heavies as a suit are fine... Minmatar Heavy needs either a substantial HP buff or another speed buff for the low ehp to be worth it. And all heavies need to be locked to heavy weapons in the H slot and sidearm weapons in the S slot...with the obvious exception of commandos. I'm so tired of people taking MLT heavy suits and/or STD+ heavy/sentinel suits, throwing a RR/CR/MD on it and proceeding to wreck everything on the battlefield in a cheap suit while providing absolutely ZERO utility to their team. Fix it, CCP! Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2713	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:39:00 - [18] - Quote I think the HMG needs to be adjusted somewhat. The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 480	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:47:00 - [19] - Quote Jacques Cayton II wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m. What? Dude hmgs past 50m can't hit **** unless they have been shooting at you for 4-5 seconds This is not my experience, but your mileage may vary. My wild and no-proof guess would be lucky headshots due to the sheer ROF making HMGs appear to work well past normal range. Like I said though, no proof.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6634	Posted - 2014.04.12 13:49:00 - [20] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: There was a big crazy push to nerf the living @#$@ out of heavies at the start of this build. Now that the community has play tested it for a few weeks some of the heavies could use a micro buff. The only people who were pushing for a heavy nerf was CCP. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

John ShepardIII G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 203	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:10:00 - [21] - Quote Just to clarify, I'm talking about a heavy with a hmg CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN Join out pub channel G0DS AM0NG MEN :D
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 239	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:15:00 - [22] - Quote They just need to switch the CPU and PG if Commandos and Sentinels. Also, Commandos should have more slots and be slightly faster, right now it feels to squishy for a heavy. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 193	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:25:00 - [23] - Quote How are yall getting insta killed from 70m? After a year of being an HMG Heavy I've never killed anyone past 50m...I would like to see this done lol G0DS AM0NG MEN Director 1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 273	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:25:00 - [24] - Quote Commando with additional slots would be too much; right now they're in a pretty great place. Remember, they're not a frontline assault suit, with the exception of the Gallente one perhaps. Commando suits are denied to suppress, preferably at range, and the best defense they have lies in having the right weapon for the right situation. Which is not to say they don't need tweeking, but it's hardly a pressing issue to go back to them. HMGs do the job, and having used them a lot recently I can't see how they can hit out at 70m and win that firefight. The burst is a beast, but is balanced by heat build up (it's a genuine thing you have to manage), limited ammo count and the fact that a missed burst is going to ruin your day. I consider them heavy killers, and less adept at dealing with mobs of medium/light suits. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 82	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:30:00 - [25] - Quote HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. Purifier. First Class.
darkiller240 K-A-O-S theory 721	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:32:00 - [26] - Quote ChribbaX wrote: EVERYTHING IS OP! NOT THE PLASMA CANNON! "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 173	Posted - 2014.04.12 14:37:00 - [27] - Quote Heavies are not OP, they are still easily killable, for example logi goes cloaked throws down an RE boom Heavy is now dead most likely from close to if not at full health. Heck I killed a proto heavy with a militia shotgun, with a nice placed and timed shot to the face and I'm not even heavily specced into shotguns. (This was during the commando weekend) I don't even fear heavies, they aren't the issue right now by far. What is OP right now are scouts having more Ehp then the assault and medium suits, along with being faster then the medium suits as well. I also heavily dislike how the cloaking mechanic works, I have taken off people's shields when they have the cloak on yet, this does not decloak them, it isn't affected by damage at all. I feel this unbalances the cloak, but when scouts regularly have more Ehp then assault suits and people start putting RR and CR on scout suits their is a major issue in the game, cause those guns should be for the assault class. The reason why people think the heavy suit is OP, is because yes the HMG will just eat through your life within seconds, but that's what it was built to do, at range the HMG rather well...sucks, Heavy suits are also designed to be able to take tons of dmg, especially the Amarr and the Gal, since they are armor based which means magnets for repair beams, who want to earn lots of WP. Put yourself in the shoes of a logi, do you want to be healing someone who is going to maybe give you 25 points or someone that could give you over 100. Most people target the heavy shooting at them and leave the logi alone, if you want to really hurt a heavy, target the logi, most times the heavy will retreat if you are doing so. For the heavies using light weapons, this is the issue as before, medium suits need help desperately to be functional again, they just do not have the Ehp to compete and their bonuses seem....lacking. Logi's are doing good, but they aren't in the ideal zone yet, assault suits....are jokes, regular medium suits...just aweful.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 358	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:14:00 - [28] - Quote I'd like some of the CCP reps or the C(P)M to comment on all that crazy heavy nerf scare tatics that happened after the patch. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 423	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:19:00 - [29] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. There's one major flaw with that line of thought. In something like a domination match where the objective is in an installation like the Gallente facility, if you get 6-7 guys using sentinels with HMGs and a repper logi, absolutely no one is going to get in there ever. That is broken. Who wants to have matches like that of nothing but a back and forth bout of a bunch of heavies with HMGs or after 6 minutes some guy in a scout suit manages to get in, kills one or two but instantly gets mowed down only for them to respawn in the same location again? Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 141	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:25:00 - [30] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m. I think your confused by what killed you. It sure as poop wasn't an hmg. He might of got a round on you but it wasn't the the one to kill you. The range sucks. If it's not cqc you can't hit it. And if you are getting hit at a range that seems off just move. the patteren at range is all luck. "It never got weird enough for me." Dr. T

KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 171	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:26:00 - [31] - Quote I've killed a few people at 50 metres-ish but they were standing still for ages to let me peel away their HP. I have never one-shotted anyone at any range with a HMG so people who say that are talking crap. People think not being able to solo a heavy toe to toe makes the heavy OP. Perhaps the person attempting to solo the heavy head on is just stupid? I'm sorry but if you run straight at me from across the street then you deserve to die. Like I said in my first post, a good heavy with logi combo is very hard to counter for unorganised players. Again, if you bum rush me in your starter fit with a MLT AR while my logi is repping me then you are likely to die. Another reason heavies are perceived to be OP is because most heavies are smart enough to know their territory and stick to it. Tight spaces and enclosed areas are meant to be the home of the fat-man. That is where we are most effective. You won't usually catch a heavy trying to cross open ground on foot for a number of reasons but mainly because we will get toasted by a RR, CR or a tank before we reach our destination.
VonSpliff TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 141	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:29:00 - [32] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. There's one major flaw with that line of thought. In something like a domination match where the objective is in an installation like the Gallente facility, if you get 6-7 guys using sentinels with HMGs and a repper logi, absolutely no one is going to get in there ever. That is broken. Who wants to have matches like that of nothing but a back and forth bout of a bunch of heavies with HMGs or after 6 minutes some guy in a scout suit manages to get in, kills one or two but instantly gets mowed down only for them to respawn in the same location again? Hmmm who wants to play matches with maxed tanks on both sides. But we do. Tactic tactics tactics. Proto hive and Nade spam is one way to mess with a swarm of heavies. Charged Scr for cover. Adapt or die. Dust 514 "It never got weird enough for me." Dr. T
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 423	Posted - 2014.04.12 15:44:00 - [33] - Quote VonSpliff wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. There's one major flaw with that line of thought. In something like a domination match where the objective is in an installation like the Gallente facility, if you get 6-7 guys using sentinels with HMGs and a repper logi, absolutely no one is going to get in there ever. That is broken. Who wants to have matches like that of nothing but a back and forth bout of a bunch of heavies with HMGs or after 6 minutes some guy in a scout suit manages to get in, kills one or two but instantly gets mowed down only for them to respawn in the same location again? Hmmm who wants to play matches with maxed tanks on both sides. But we do. Tactic tactics tactics. Proto hive and Nade spam is one way to mess with a swarm of heavies. Charged Scr for cover. Adapt or die. Dust 514 Well, tanks can't reach into all areas of buildings. They don't reach and camp underground passageways. In most maps, around an objective, tanks can be avoided somewhere. Like I said, it's real simple, all you have to do is have about 7-8 HMG sentinels, have them camp around the objective in the silo in the Gallente map and have a repper logi or two with triage hives and proto rep tool. 3-4 sentinels watch each side, and with the HMG range out to 40m, all ways in are easily covered. Grenade spam? Yeah, still kind of effective provided you don't get gunned down immediately if you have to step out to throw. I don't care really about skirmish matches overall. In there they can't all camp one location. However for domination, it causes a lot of problems based upon the map. Also under your logic I'll say the same thing for scouts that people claim are OP. Use tactics to take out the new scouts then also and "adapt or die" to them, like you said. Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 132	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:28:00 - [34] - Quote i think its the sp investment . 1 . ccp needs to take out basic suits and dump that sp used for it on main suits sp on tier 4 going to 5 ......2 . sp class should be assault 2.5 mill sp , logie 3mill sp , scouts 4 mill sp , heavys 5mill sp , how does it take same time for for all suits . assault and logies should be far more common then the more specialised suits made for there role . i do forsee more respecs down the road if they ever want to get this game moven forward .
Enki Kalgarian Northwind Alliance Dark Taboo 77	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:49:00 - [35] - Quote I think heavies are finally where they should be they should be left alone on the other hand how about them bloody scouts.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 174	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:50:00 - [36] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: VonSpliff wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. There's one major flaw with that line of thought. In something like a domination match where the objective is in an installation like the Gallente facility, if you get 6-7 guys using sentinels with HMGs and a repper logi, absolutely no one is going to get in there ever. That is broken. Who wants to have matches like that of nothing but a back and forth bout of a bunch of heavies with HMGs or after 6 minutes some guy in a scout suit manages to get in, kills one or two but instantly gets mowed down only for them to respawn in the same location again? Hmmm who wants to play matches with maxed tanks on both sides. But we do. Tactic tactics tactics. Proto hive and Nade spam is one way to mess with a swarm of heavies. Charged Scr for cover. Adapt or die. Dust 514 Well, tanks can't reach into all areas of buildings. They don't reach and camp underground passageways. In most maps, around an objective, tanks can be avoided somewhere. Like I said, it's real simple, all you have to do is have about 7-8 HMG sentinels, have them camp around the objective in the silo in the Gallente map and have a repper logi or two with triage hives and proto rep tool. 3-4 sentinels watch each side, and with the HMG range out to 40m, all ways in are easily covered. Grenade spam? Yeah, still kind of effective provided you don't get gunned down immediately if you have to step out to throw. I don't care really about skirmish matches overall. In there they can't all camp one location. However for domination, it causes a lot of problems based upon the map. Also under your logic I'll say the same thing for scouts that people claim are OP. Use tactics to take out the new scouts then also and "adapt or die" to them, like you said. I have to disagree with you, while that is a powerful tactic and can indeed block most of it, 2 heavies with forge guns and a logi will punch right through that wall 1 shoting the heavies in front of them and can do it from far enough back. Say at around 40-50m. Another way to destroy the tactic is to use the laser rifle, I know you'd probably laugh at this, but when that sucker gets frying a heavies head they move out of the way damn fast and break rank. Another tactic I have seen while it being suicidal is to get a scout, load him up with RE's and a cloak, when the heavies are reloading or distracted rush in throw all the RE's down as fast as possible, then even on the death screen just set off all the RE's, that line of Heavies is now dead and probably the logi that was repairing them too. If even that fails, lure the heavies and enemy team out, by not going in and suiciding, or do a collection of WP using logis till you get an orbital and just blast the point, most the heavies and the logi will probably die, then rush in and clean up what is left. The problem you are currently trying to portray is where the Sentinel is at the most optimal of what it is supposed to do, with a gun that is made to be heavy supression/able to kill a lot of idiots. A line defender, defending an objective, it would be like complaining that someone with a sniper rifle nailed you at 200 yards away and your RR could not hit them back as hard or fast. The best way to fight a Sentinel or a Sniper is make it where they are out of the comfort zone, where they have to take additional risk in order for getting a payout.(not bringing up the redline issue in this, that is a whole other issue)
iliel Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 27	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:51:00 - [37] - Quote Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. I bolded the belief that is essentially ruining this game. Sorry, but no one who specs into any suit is ENTITLED to win a fight. The HMG, like every other weapon, should require SKILL to win a fight. A scout, assault, or even logi,should be able to have a fighting chance dancing around a Heavy. But ONE burst at 40 or less meters kills anything in this game instantly - - and I mean instantly. Both my scout and logi go down in seconds. While 1.8 was supposed to be a TTK buff, any conflict with a Heavy means death in less than a second. How is this not OP (i.e., over-powered)? Sorry, but just because the shotgun/cloak combo is OP, and the gallente scout cloaked brick-tank is OP,,does not mean that the Heavy's are balanced by them. All three need to be fixed. (And the cloak is not the problem. Perhaps make the cloak subtract a percentage of armor, which goes down per level, so 50% at basic, 30% at adv, and 10% at proto?) For the Heavies, though, the fix is simple: lower the Heavy's turn speed and remove the snaring effect of bullets landed (for this effect basically buffs the hmgs, crs, and smgs). This would fix both the HMG and fix the Heavy-with-light-weapon situation. Lore wise, it would make sense, because they're bricked out, so should move slowly in all respects. Simple fix. Ought to be a hotfix.
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 132	Posted - 2014.04.12 16:59:00 - [38] - Quote burst only has 4 shots befor over heat . how to handle ? send in 4 guys -dead heavy heavys . were never ment to be solod . that why we have short range . iv used the burst since 1.3. no one yelled op then and was just as good
iliel Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 28	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:11:00 - [39] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: burst only has 4 shots befor over heat . how to handle ? send in 4 guys -dead heavy heavys . were never ment to be solod . that why we have short range . iv used the burst since 1.3. no one yelled op then and was just as good 4 bursts you say. I'll have to double check my six kin. As for the absurdity of yelling op now, when was the last time that every other gun in the game (except shotgun) was nerfed twice (once directly to damage and once indirectly via passive Heavy dmg resistances)?
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1319	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:22:00 - [40] - Quote HMGs are a problem, as I said they would be, nerfing all the light rifles while leaving the HMG untouched created imbalance. Reduce damage on HMG at about the same level the CR was. Sentinels get too much CPU/PG no other suit in the game can fit all proto weapons, modules, and grenades save for the Sentinel reduce the CPU/PG to make them have to make choices like every other suit class does. The only reason more people aren't noticing and thus QQing about the Sentinels (mostly Gallente and Amarr) is because of us cloaked scouts that everyone is complaining about (and in many cases rightfully so). The only thing keeping the Sentinel population in check is the cloaked scout. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2717	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:29:00 - [41] - Quote I really do not think anybody is debating that the Heavy + HMG should not be the King of CQC, or even insinuating that it is broken. I think people are more or less frustrated with the HMG. It really does need a range nerf in my opinion. The Pathway to Hell, is paved with good intentions Total Molden Heath Domination Imminent: 97.51% Complete
VALCORE72 NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 132	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:31:00 - [42] - Quote longer range or shorter ?
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1840	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:32:00 - [43] - Quote [quote=John ShepardIII]I hear a lot of people saying heavies are OP, and a lot saying they need a buff. So what do you think??? I believe heavies are pretty much fine where there are at right now. I mean there resistances should work on there shield and armor instead of just one or the other. Because there not even resistant to all guns so atleast make the ones they are resistant to apply to there shields and armor, but that's just what I think.[/quote heavies are fine the way they are. there are only to kinds of players who disagree, the really bad ones, and the ones who think they should be able to one shot everything. when you consider how slow they move, the lack of any equip slots, and the lowest amount of slots (high and low) over all, heavy resists and loads of hp compensate this perfectly. people also need to consider the progression of their skills and the heavy they are facing, are all the appropriate skills to 5? is proto involved? is sadi heavy or his opponent part of an organized sqd or team? there seems to be a serious issue with the community's perception of what one merc should be capable of on his own, unfortunately ccp cant patch that.... this game makes me sad....
steelRatt L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 16	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:43:00 - [44] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Jacques Cayton II wrote: Shion Typhon wrote: The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m. What? Dude hmgs past 50m can't hit **** unless they have been shooting at you for 4-5 seconds This is not my experience, but your mileage may vary. My wild and no-proof guess would be lucky headshots due to the sheer ROF making HMGs appear to work well past normal range. Like I said though, no proof. Iv been a heavy forever. The suits seam fine now tho I'm running a mini sentinel now I would like to see some work on shields or armor I love there speed. To start with i was running it with a normal hmg then had a go with the burst I find it fits the suit hit and run still style more I do how ever think the range is a little longer then before also hmg vs bunny bouncy scouts no so fun what with slow moving speeds on the guns. So there only CQC to a certain extent. Defeat dose not exist to them that are willing.
KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 173	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:55:00 - [45] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'd like some of the CCP reps or the C(P)M to comment on all that crazy heavy nerf scare tatics that happened after the patch. I would not like the CPM to comment on anything because they know jack **** about this game and I couldn't care less what they have to say about anything.
Principus Shmoof Triariian Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered 102	Posted - 2014.04.12 17:58:00 - [46] - Quote Less nerf/buff, more new content please
KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 174	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:01:00 - [47] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: John ShepardIII wrote: I hear a lot of people saying heavies are OP, and a lot saying they need a buff. So what do you think??? I believe heavies are pretty much fine where there are at right now. I mean there resistances should work on there shield and armor instead of just one or the other. Because there not even resistant to all guns so atleast make the ones they are resistant to apply to there shields and armor, but that's just what I think. heavies are fine the way they are. there are only two kinds of players who disagree, the really bad ones, and the ones who think they should be able to one shot everything. when you consider how slow they move, the lack of any equip slots, and the lowest amount of slots (high and low) over all, heavy resists and loads of hp compensate this perfectly. people also need to consider the progression of their skills and the heavy they are facing, are all the appropriate skills to 5? is proto involved? is said heavy or his opponent part of an organized sqd or team? there seems to be a serious issue with the community's perception of what one merc should be capable of on his own, unfortunately ccp cant patch that.... CCP keep patching this game to compensate for bad players who cry OP at anything that can kill their scrub ass. I remember back in chromosome when I played as an Assault and if I heard a HMG firing I would turn and run the other way because it would almost certainly mean my death if I ran straight into them. Heavies are the slowest moving thing in the game and there are a lot of ways to kill us! People just need to figure out that a lone merc should not be able to solo a heavy head on, end of!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1319	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:05:00 - [48] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: heavies are fine the way they are. there are only two kinds of players who disagree, the really bad ones, and the ones who think they should be able to one shot everything. How about this, the only people that think heavies are fine the way they are are scrubs with crap aim and tactics who need HP, resistances, and the ultimate spray and pray gun to make up for their lack of skills. Isn't it amazing how anyone can insult someone for disagreeing with their opinion? Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Rusty Shallows 1498	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:35:00 - [49] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: There was a big crazy push to nerf the living @#$@ out of heavies at the start of this build. Now that the community has play tested it for a few weeks some of the heavies could use a micro buff. There was one build everyone wanted to do flat out nerf to but in playing ambush we found just moving the battle away form these heavies they can't even get in range to kill anyone. The run time is slow and boring and the straight up nerf to LAVs makes using these heavies even less important. Plus CCP STILL NEEDS TO RELEASE THE KILL/DEATH STATS ON THE FORGE GUN TO SEE WHY IT BEEN NERFED SO HARD IN RELATION TO OTHER GUNS! THEY ARE JUST PROMOTING ONE GROUP OF PLAYERS AND DISREGARDING ANOTHER COMPLETELY IN A FORM OF FAVORTISM. (Uggg.. how many freaking times will I have to rewrite this!!!) What you are observing is part of a cycle. Whether it be glitch or design the HMG and Forge Gun trade off in usefulness. Most of Uprising has been for the Forge Gun. Chromosome the HMG. Don't hold your breath on getting useful numbers from CCP. It is not in their bet interest to actively shine a light on goof-ups. However you can rest assured a Dev will eventually notice the numbers. Even better it won't be like Eve Online where a known problem like a moon goo exploit was left unchecked for years. The Shanghai team is more capable in that department. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1841	Posted - 2014.04.12 18:38:00 - [50] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: heavies are fine the way they are. there are only two kinds of players who disagree, the really bad ones, and the ones who think they should be able to one shot everything. How about this, the only people that think heavies are fine the way they are are scrubs with crap aim and tactics who need HP, resistances, and the ultimate spray and pray gun to make up for their lack of skills. Isn't it amazing how anyone can insult someone for disagreeing with their opinion? I assume your intended insult directed at me (which is lacking since you don't know me) comes from your conclusion that I must be a heavy.... I'm not... never have been... I have an alt heavy that isn't near skilled to 5 in anything whom I haven't played for the better part of the year.... I play a minmitar logi and mostly only use my DREN suit with a DREN assault rifle or shotty and remotes...with my remotes I can 1 shot a heavy (obviously) with my other weapons its tough and almost impossible in a frontal assault.... the way it should be... I did not intend to insult anyone, but if you took it that way then you must be one of the people who QQ about heavies, so I have 2 things to say to you. 1. stop being so sensitive (htfu) 2. see 1 this game makes me sad....

Rusty Shallows 1498	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:27:00 - [51] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: HMGs are a problem, as I said they would be, nerfing all the light rifles while leaving the HMG untouched created imbalance. Reduce damage on HMG at about the same level the CR was. Sentinels get too much CPU/PG no other suit in the game can fit all proto weapons, modules, and grenades save for the Sentinel reduce the CPU/PG to make them have to make choices like every other suit class does. The only reason more people aren't noticing and thus QQing about the Sentinels (mostly Gallente and Amarr) is because of us cloaked scouts that everyone is complaining about (and in many cases rightfully so). The only thing keeping the Sentinel population in check is the cloaked scout. Pre-1.8 there was an imbalance between HMGs and the Big Four Rifles. Before fall last year there was an imbalance between the HMG and Assault Rifle. Always in favor of the light weapon in Dust history. The one exception being in Chrome with Heavy Weapon Sharpshooter at 4 or 5 against Assault Rifle users with Light Weapon Sharpshooter 0. Nerfing DPS on the HMG now will probably put pressure to nerf Rifles again. It's a bit murky because the effect of stacking the old complex damage mods was never widely discussed. My Forge Gun fits disagree with your excess PG claim. The amount of proto I can fit on my Logi isn't any less either. As an added bonus I have more fitting options on the Logi. Sentinels have fewer slots and yet you're making that drawback seem like it is an advantage. If there is a problem then identify it as much as possible. Generic CPU/PG nerfing has no purpose except screw over Basic Sentinel fits. Scouts are not keeping Heavies in check because they are not out of control. Rifles still slaughter Heavies on open ground with any range outside 20m. On my Combat Engineer ALT in terrain I flux them then backwards walk around obstructions while angling shots. Any combined fire with half decent weapons will swiftly kill Heavies just like any other Frame. Small Rails on LAVs are hilariously effective. Without full health Remote Explosives still One-Hit-Kill. Grenade spam still works but it takes multiple people now. From my position Uprising 1.8 has pushed this game closer to a Tactical Game instead of the Gimmicky Twitch FPS it was. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Rusty Shallows 1498	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:33:00 - [52] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I really do not think anybody is debating that the Heavy + HMG should not be the King of CQC, or even insinuating that it is broken. I think people are more or less frustrated with the HMG. It really does need a range nerf in my opinion. Are you talking about the Assault HMG? Did CCP ninja buff the range of all HMGs? I haven't evaluated the Assault HMG since last year. The extra range was worth less than the lower damage. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 359	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:43:00 - [53] - Quote I haven't touched the Assault HMG cause it looked like the range was the same in the notes on the gun. Yet I seen people using it in Domination. The only thing I remember about the Assault HMG was the spread being tighter, yet I didn't use it enough to know if that is true. The HMG doesn't feel as over powered as some of the previous posters are letting on to believe. As a Heavy Weapon Class weapon it seams perfect for what it does, I think those people need to put a range extender to they can know where a heavy is so they can GTFO. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1319	Posted - 2014.04.12 19:45:00 - [54] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: heavies are fine the way they are. there are only two kinds of players who disagree, the really bad ones, and the ones who think they should be able to one shot everything. How about this, the only people that think heavies are fine the way they are are scrubs with crap aim and tactics who need HP, resistances, and the ultimate spray and pray gun to make up for their lack of skills. Isn't it amazing how anyone can insult someone for disagreeing with their opinion? I assume your intended insult directed at me (which is lacking since you don't know me) comes from your conclusion that I must be a heavy.... I'm not... never have been... I have an alt heavy that isn't near skilled to 5 in anything whom I haven't played for the better part of the year.... I play a minmitar logi and mostly only use my DREN suit with a DREN assault rifle or shotty and remotes...with my remotes I can 1 shot a heavy (obviously) with my other weapons its tough and almost impossible in a frontal assault.... the way it should be... I did not intend to insult anyone, but if you took it that way then you must be one of the people who QQ about heavies, so I have 2 things to say to you. 1. stop being so sensitive (htfu) 2. see 1 I was pointing out the absurdity of what you said with some absurdity of my own. Nothing more nothing less. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 149	Posted - 2014.04.12 20:43:00 - [55] - Quote VALCORE72 wrote: i think its the sp investment . 1 . ccp needs to take out basic suits and dump that sp used for it on main suits sp on tier 4 going to 5 ......2 . sp class should be assault 2.5 mill sp , logie 3mill sp , scouts 4 mill sp , heavys 5mill sp , how does it take same time for for all suits . assault and logies should be far more common then the more specialised suits made for there role . i do forsee more respecs down the road if they ever want to get this game moven forward . Assaults and Logis are designed for a specialized role... Megaman Trigger wrote: No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. CCP has stated that in a 1v1 situation, an assault should beat a sentinel. I'm at work and can't be bothered to find the exact post, but I specifically remember a dev saying that. My .02 ISK? See below: Zaaeed Massani wrote: Heavies as a suit are fine... Minmatar Heavy needs either a substantial HP buff or another speed buff for the low ehp to be worth it. (EDIT: or an extra H/L slot...or both...) And all heavies need to be locked to heavy weapons in the H slot and sidearm weapons in the S slot...with the obvious exception of commandos. I'm so tired of people taking MLT heavy suits and/or STD+ heavy/sentinel suits, throwing a RR/CR/MD on it and proceeding to wreck everything on the battlefield in a cheap suit while providing absolutely ZERO utility to their team. Fix it, CCP! That said, I would like to reiterate that heavies as a suit are fine. With my Minmatar Commando I shred any and all heavies beyond 20-30 yards. The engagement goes something like this: 1) I'm running from one point to another. 375 shields 325 armor. 2) HMG heavy sees me and opens fire from 25+ meters away. 3) My shields drop to 350/375 and I turn to the attacking heavy. We'll say he has 400 shields and 700 armor. 4) I open fire with my CR, be it my BK-42 or RS-90. I'm currently 330/375 shields. Opposing heavy drops to 300/400 shields. 5) Opposing heavy walks toward me. I backpedal, continuing to fire. 300/375 vs 200/400. 6) 250/375. 50/400. 7) 200/375. 0/400, 650/700. 8) Heavy begins to look for cover. I press the advantage and attack. 175/375, 500/700 9) Heavy tucks tail and runs. I follow. 175/375, 350/700. 10) Heavy reaches cover and hides behind it to wait for me, 193/375, 350/700. 11) I whip out my MD and open fire around the corner. 201/375, 175/700. 12) I continue to rain fire (literally). 219/275, 0/700. 13) +50 14) Return to the objective I was originally headed to after a slight detour. If the heavy has a logi it's completely different. Immediately go to MD and force them back when I find cover. But the above story is generally how it goes 1v1. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 424	Posted - 2014.04.12 21:29:00 - [56] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: VonSpliff wrote: LEHON Xeon wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. There's one major flaw with that line of thought. In something like a domination match where the objective is in an installation like the Gallente facility, if you get 6-7 guys using sentinels with HMGs and a repper logi, absolutely no one is going to get in there ever. That is broken. Who wants to have matches like that of nothing but a back and forth bout of a bunch of heavies with HMGs or after 6 minutes some guy in a scout suit manages to get in, kills one or two but instantly gets mowed down only for them to respawn in the same location again? Hmmm who wants to play matches with maxed tanks on both sides. But we do. Tactic tactics tactics. Proto hive and Nade spam is one way to mess with a swarm of heavies. Charged Scr for cover. Adapt or die. Dust 514 Well, tanks can't reach into all areas of buildings. They don't reach and camp underground passageways. In most maps, around an objective, tanks can be avoided somewhere. Like I said, it's real simple, all you have to do is have about 7-8 HMG sentinels, have them camp around the objective in the silo in the Gallente map and have a repper logi or two with triage hives and proto rep tool. 3-4 sentinels watch each side, and with the HMG range out to 40m, all ways in are easily covered. Grenade spam? Yeah, still kind of effective provided you don't get gunned down immediately if you have to step out to throw. I don't care really about skirmish matches overall. In there they can't all camp one location. However for domination, it causes a lot of problems based upon the map. Also under your logic I'll say the same thing for scouts that people claim are OP. Use tactics to take out the new scouts then also and "adapt or die" to them, like you said. I have to disagree with you, while that is a powerful tactic and can indeed block most of it, 2 heavies with forge guns and a logi will punch right through that wall 1 shoting the heavies in front of them and can do it from far enough back. Say at around 40-50m. Another way to destroy the tactic is to use the laser rifle, I know you'd probably laugh at this, but when that sucker gets frying a heavies head they move out of the way damn fast and break rank. Another tactic I have seen while it being suicidal is to get a scout, load him up with RE's and a cloak, when the heavies are reloading or distracted rush in throw all the RE's down as fast as possible, then even on the death screen just set off all the RE's, that line of Heavies is now dead and probably the logi that was repairing them too. If even that fails, lure the heavies and enemy team out, by not going in and suiciding, or do a collection of WP using logis till you get an orbital and just blast the point, most the heavies and the logi will probably die, then rush in and clean up what is left. The problem you are currently trying to portray is where the Sentinel is at the most optimal of what it is supposed to do, with a gun that is made to be heavy supression/able to kill a lot of idiots. A line defender, defending an objective, it would be like complaining that someone with a sniper rifle nailed you at 200 yards away and your RR could not hit them back as hard or fast. The best way to fight a Sentinel or a Sniper is make it where they are out of the comfort zone, where they have to take additional risk in order for getting a payout.(not bringing up the redline issue in this, that is a whole other issue) I guess my main issue currently is with the HMG itself more than the suits. That immediate slowdown effect needs to be gotten rid of. People need a chance to be able to get away and out of the way like with every other gun. Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN Dirt Nap Squad. 196	Posted - 2014.04.13 00:48:00 - [57] - Quote You know how only a heavy (basic, sentinel) can fit a heavy weapon? What if only assualts and commando can fit Racial assualt rifles (scrambler, combat, rail, assualt). No more QQ about sentinels with rails, no more crying about bricked tank scouts with assualt rifles, and this simultaneously gives assualts and commandos a great advantage... Use of assualt rifles like the heavy's use of heavy weapons. Scouts who need a balancing pass get it and all the FOTM chasers go back to the only suits that can don the impressive ARs. I am a scout and a heavy G0DS AM0NG MEN Director 1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 276	Posted - 2014.04.13 08:32:00 - [58] - Quote iliel wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. I bolded the belief that is essentially ruining this game. Sorry, but no one who specs into any suit is ENTITLED to win a fight. The HMG, like every other weapon, should require SKILL to win a fight. A scout, assault, or even logi,should be able to have a fighting chance dancing around a Heavy. But ONE burst at 40 or less meters kills anything in this game instantly - - and I mean instantly. Both my scout and logi go down in seconds. While 1.8 was supposed to be a TTK buff, any conflict with a Heavy means death in less than a second. How is this not OP (i.e., over-powered)? Sorry, but just because the shotgun/cloak combo is OP, and the gallente scout cloaked brick-tank is OP,,does not mean that the Heavy's are balanced by them. All three need to be fixed. (And the cloak is not the problem. Perhaps make the cloak subtract a percentage of armor, which goes down per level, so 50% at basic, 30% at adv, and 10% at proto?) For the Heavies, though, the fix is simple: lower the Heavy's turn speed and remove the snaring effect of bullets landed (for this effect basically buffs the hmgs, crs, and smgs). This would fix both the HMG and fix the Heavy-with-light-weapon situation. Lore wise, it would make sense, because they're bricked out, so should move slowly in all respects. Simple fix. Ought to be a hotfix. Sorry, but I have to disagree here with your desire to have all suits balanced against one another. I understand where you're coming from, and if this game were a series of 1v1 duels then you'd be spot on with asking for a valid chance against any suit, but this is a team based game and I think it's just fine to have suits that require concentrated fire to nullify, so long as they pay for this resilience with other drawbacks built into their design. The heavy has these; the speed, the hitbox, the lack of self-sufficiency through the loss of an equipment slot. They are a battering ram that can punch through squads by the might of their power alone, but their reach is limited both literally and figuratively, and to get the best out of them you really have to use your head. Consider this: for the heavy and his HMG, pulling the trigger and tearing you apart was the easy part, the payoff if you will. To get to that payoff moment, he had to manoeuvre his way into the fight without being picked off by rails and the like, hug cover, judge distance and the likely hood of you having friends close by to reinforce, and then make a call. Commit to the fight in a fat suit and you commit to the death, yours or his. No hit and runs, it's just not an option. You win the fight before you pull the trigger, because you made the right call to engage. The burst HMG just complicates this further because the damned thing actually needs to be aimed properly to make it work. Can't just spray and pray with it, you just over heat and hit thin air. When you get the hang of them, however...well. You know what that feels like. Look, I'm basing all of this on mere personal experience and I'm sure won't agree with everything I've just said, but please realise that this suit is just a ton of fun to use at last, and whilst it certainly has its comfort zone it is not without fault or flaw, and woe betide the player who ignores them when they suit up in one of these things. Because it's going to butthurt both them and their wallet. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 474	Posted - 2014.04.13 08:45:00 - [59] - Quote The only thing that needs a fix is the BLODEY sprint glitch. That and the geting stuck on grownd are the deadliest thing in game when speed tanking Don't dare to mess the heavies upp they are fine. ( I am a scout ) War never changes
Rygharr Sturmeister DUST University Ivy League 11	Posted - 2014.04.13 17:33:00 - [60] - Quote iliel wrote: Megaman Trigger wrote: HP wise, the Sentinel is just fine. They are, by design, supposed to be able to survive massive amounts of damage while dishing it out. The description for the suit even says they're the only Drop Suit that can reliably go head-to-head with a tank. No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. They don't need a nerf, they just need to be approached with different tactics in a firefight. Engage at range, outside of the HMG's effective range, or in groups, 2v1 or better if you can manage it. I bolded the belief that is essentially ruining this game. Sorry, but no one who specs into any suit is ENTITLED to win a fight. The HMG, like every other weapon, should require SKILL to win a fight. A scout, assault, or even logi,should be able to have a fighting chance dancing around a Heavy. Perhaps we should be more specific and take the underlined and italicized part into consideration: Megaman Trigger wrote: No one but another Sentinel should be able to take a Sentinel head-on inside HMG range and be able to win. Megaman does not say that the a Sentinel must necessarily win a fight against any non-Sentinel, full stop. He mentions two conditions: A. The fight is head on B. The combatants are within HMG range If you get yourself beyond the range of the HMG OR start the engagement from his rear/flank (or both), you will have negated most of his advantages. Now, I agree with you in that even if the conditions listed above are met, the HMG heavy shouldn't automatically win. If the non-heavy is a good strafer and the heavy is lousy at tracking the heavy should lose. I do believe however that it should be more difficult for the non-heavy to come out victorious. This is the essence of a rock-paper-scissors type game. But rock-paper-scissors doesn't work if rocks beats all, right? What is the paper to the HMG heavy's rock? The answer is: anything that see it, maneuver around it, and get itself outside the heavy's ideal range of engagement . This may be a scout, but it may easily be a medium suit as well. Both are faster than the heavy and can passive scan him whilst being invisible to his scans. They can also jump to places a heavy cannot access and generally maintain distance from a heavy who has no chance of keeping up (especially without being flanked or RE'd). I agree with you, skill should be required to win a fight. The HMG heavy should not be an "I WIN" button, and it is not, for this reason: In a fight, skill is not limited to the gunfight itself; it also includes finding the most favorable conditions for your type of role/fit. In an objective game, this is significantly more difficult for the slow and blind heavy than it would be for a medium or a scout. A heavy running down a long corridor or out in the open is just food for everybody else. Often without the assistance of the TACNET, he has to assess where the potential threats between him and where he needs to be are and how to get there with the minimum amount of damage (in a more open area, he will have no opportunity to shoot back). iliel wrote: But ONE burst at 40 or less meters kills anything in this game instantly - - and I mean instantly. Both my scout and logi go down in seconds. While 1.8 was supposed to be a TTK buff, any conflict with a Heavy means death in less than a second. How is this not OP (i.e., over-powered)? I am a full time HMG user, and i can tell you that even scouts and starter fits do not die instantly to an MH-82 at 40 meters. Anything past 30, and you see an exponential increase in TTK for the HMG. Even at 30 it takes me around 2 seconds to take out most medium suits, which is sometimes more time than it takes some rifles to kill me in my STD Caldari Sentinel. We can test this on video if you wish. iliel wrote: For the Heavies, though, the fix is simple: lower the Heavy's turn speed and remove the snaring effect of bullets landed (for this effect basically buffs the hmgs, crs, and smgs). This would fix both the HMG and fix the Heavy-with-light-weapon situation. Lore wise, it would make sense, because they're bricked out, so should move slowly in all respects. Simple fix. Ought to be a hotfix. I agree with you that the slowdown effect should be removed; if a player is fast enough to react to being shot he should have the opportunity to get to cover. However, I don't believe the heavy's turn speed should be reduced, this would hurt his CQC role too much. If a nerf really is necessary for the heavy, reduce its sprint speed. This will narrow the useful envelope of the suit and prevent it from being abused without harming what it's supposed to be good at. I really do believe that the HMG heavy has a proper niche without being overpowered. Non-commando heavies with light weapons however, are a completely different issue that I believe unbalances the role of the suit. There's a reason commandos have lower HP than other heavies.

Rygharr Sturmeister DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2014.04.13 17:40:00 - [61] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Good stuff I was writing my response before reading yours, and it seems we are mostly on the same page! Also, philosophy major?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2525	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:23:00 - [62] - Quote I will put it this way, I personally don't have a problem taking down heavies where I'm supposed to take them down from . . . . at range. But I'm not best pleased when I come across a sentinel with a RR, I'm not gonna QQ but it's mildly unbalanced and not just because he's in a fat suit. Also and interesting piece of info, you can reach 1900 EHP with an Amarr or Gallante Sentinel, not including resistance. What you take from that information is down to you. But I think it's a lot. Especially when the proposed nerf is 190 EHP or about 240 if your skilled up. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Rygharr Sturmeister DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2014.04.14 04:11:00 - [63] - Quote Monkey, First, a disclaimer. My only experience with a non-Caldari Sentinel is the of pre-1.8 Amarr, and at that time I was too new a player so SP it into proto. Even my plates were only skilled up to enhanced. That being said, even with just two enhanced plates, the Amarr fit I was using was SLOW. I fell many times from being shot while trying to waddle from cover to cover. Many times I would die from not being able to get out of a well thrown grenade/RE in time (I have no complaint about RE's, by the way). A complex armor plate carries with it a 5% penalty to both movement and sprint speed. An Amarr or Gallente Sentinel would have to stack 3-4 of these plates to get the eHP figure you mentioned. What we end up with is a semi-ambulatory HMG installation that cannot strafe, cannot run get anywhere without being shot to pieces without an LAV, and has no repair (beyond the 3hp/sec the Gallente gets). So while you can get a fit that has the ability of soak a ridiculous amount of damage, that fit will also force you to do nothing but. Despite the resistances, having armor as his primary tank would cause a Sentinel fit like that would be very vulnerable to grenades and RE's. At his speed, he wouldn't be able to get a shotgun or knife scout off his back (because you would need to backpedal as well as turn to do so). I don't agree that the Sentinels need an HP nerf, but if they do, I hope it's done on a per-race basis instead of across the board.
SPACE SYPHILIS Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 107	Posted - 2014.04.14 04:19:00 - [64] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: The actual heavy itself or the whole package with HMG? The Heavy as a drop suit is pretty much perfect, it is tough to kill but not impossible the EHP are just about right and I definitely don't think it should be nerfed. The suit actually "feels" different when you're fighting against it which is good for variety. The HMG is a different matter. People maintain its a CQC weapon but I've been insta-killed by HMGs at extreme ranges (we're talking scrambler/RR ranges) on many occasions. I think their effective range is too high, I have no problem being turned to paste <40m but they shouldn't be getting instant kills at 50-80m. If it is at 40-50M it is the assault version. It was designed for less damage, further range.
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 281	Posted - 2014.04.14 14:44:00 - [65] - Quote Rygharr Sturmeister wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Good stuff I was writing my response before reading yours, and it seems we are mostly on the same page! Also, philosophy major? Thanks! And no, uneducated swine here, but I read a little. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.


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