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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8180
   |
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming
Zero-Day
1096
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
hmmm...
Nah. introduce scanner drones 
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8180
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Posted - 2014.04.08 10:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:hmmm... Nah. introduce scanner drones
Well...
As a Gallente, I would ******* love that, because ya know, Drone master race.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
2422
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:hmmm... Nah. introduce scanner drones Well... As a Gallente, I would ******* love that, because ya know, Drone master race.
It would be nice to have a deployable scanner but... equipment spam junkies will have them nerfed within 3 months.
For the Federation!
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VALCORE72
NECROM0NGERS
Caps and Mercs
118
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
glad not to be scanned 20 times in a 7 min match lol fk scanners lol just my 2 cents |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5038
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 10:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2775
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle.
I can get behind this but I think if you give the skill a precision bonus and allow mods to affect them, active scanners won't need a precision buff.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
581
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius.
the more the charge the lower the DB it can scan... |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2775
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius. the more the charge the lower the DB it can scan...
No. That would nullify higher level scanners.
You'd then have to make it so higher level scanners have faster charge rates or something.
Everything about this idea screams far too complex for CCP to not F up.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
986
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 11:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle.
Stealth needs to trump scanning in the end. There can't be a perfect dampening build and a perfect scanning build, what would happen if they meet on the field? The problem with a perfect precision build is that it would see everyone, not just the stealth scout. It would nullify all enemy covert ops and if active scanning, it would give the user WPs at the same time. A perfect dampened scout is preferrable since he only hides himself, he doesn't nullify other builds.
That said I love the idea of mods affecting the active scanner. Mods already affect the cloak (it reduces your existing profile) so the scanner should enhance your existing precision. Dedicated EWAR built Logis would be awesome. He'll, you could even have scout hunter assaults given how many slots they have, to combat brick scouts.
Just be careful with the numbers on the low end so a stacked Caldari scout with a scanner doesn't become The Eye of Sauron. And change the bonus for active scanning skill to be cool down time between scans, not a performance bump.
Hail Bacon
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m twiggz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
455
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Posted - 2014.04.08 11:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle.
I like this idea. |
KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
Negative-Feedback
2146
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius.
A good idea cat?!
I'm pleasantly surprised
FU and FU Dust community, you're mostly a bunch of moronic carebear crybabies. Get good.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1375
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius.
Use a Range Amplifier, Precision Enhancer and a Good Scanner with a Gal Logi... Rather than just tanking a logi and following a typical lolLogi slayer fittings.... |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8182
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle.
I highly approve of this.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
|
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8182
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
NAV HIV wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius. Use a Range Amplifier, Precision Enhancer and a Good Scanner with a Gal Logi... Rather than just tanking a logi and following a typical lolLogi slayer fittings....
Since when are scouts called logis?
I don't have a single point invested into logis after 1.8 lol.
Scanners are ****.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1375
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 12:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. I highly approve of this.
Sounds like a good idea as long as CCP doesn't do the following:
- Allow standard Scanners to Combat Advanced Cloaks
- Allow Advanced Scanners to Combat Proto Cloaks
Keep in mind lolLOgi players can still brick tank the hell out of their suit...
Proper scout suits HP for proto scouts is around 200-400 hp vs brick tanked 800hp scouts and 900hp lolLogi suits...
If a scout is using multiple precision, range and dampening modules, a logi with just a scanner shouldn't be able to counter that... |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1375
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
BTW the game is much fun now, that every tom **** and harry with a scanner is not just randomly scanning the hell out of the map and getting assist points... Also it's a lot less annoying without the "You have been scanned" in your screen for the entire time... that 360 stupid scan was annoying... Now only some with enough skills and will should be allowed to scan...
btw all the Logi suits can be better used to counter Scouts... it's just that people don't wanna come out of their Comfortable Brick tanked shells and use the slots for proper modules.
Technically that Gal and Cal Logi should be a great counter to scouts... But people love their Shield extenders and specially Armor plates a bit too much....
My 180k scout suit has 250-60 total EHP without any HP modules in it... It's not very difficult to counter it... If someone is willing to that is... |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1375
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:NAV HIV wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I expected this to happen when CCP said they're going to fix them, not this bull crap they implemented in 1.8.
Anyway, the idea is, you have to charge your scanner, and the longer you charge it the wider your radius, up to the maximum of that scanner, and then you release to see what's inside that radius. Use a Range Amplifier, Precision Enhancer and a Good Scanner with a Gal Logi... Rather than just tanking a logi and following a typical lolLogi slayer fittings.... Since when are scouts called logis? I don't have a single point invested into logis after 1.8 lol. Scanners are ****.
Pair a scout with a Logi and heavy and see how it works ... I'm very sure you know exactly what i'm talking about |
Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
397
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Double the scan angle. 90-¦ to 180-¦, 60-¦ to 120-¦ = a decent comprise.
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5049
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) I can get behind this but I think if you give the skill a precision bonus and allow mods to affect them, active scanners won't need a precision buff.
Who said anything about a precision BUFF? |
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1286
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Posted - 2014.04.08 13:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
Let me just leave this here:
Active scanner must die - It's nerf o'clock!
Cat Merc wrote:It absolutely negates any form of tactic in this game.
Can't flank - Enemy will just cut you down
Can't rush in unexpectibly - Enemy expects it and cuts you down
Can't dance around boxes - Enemy knows exactly where you are
It breaks too many things.
If you put on profile damps then you are just gimped and can't fight against those scanner users anyway.
My anti scanner suit has 100 less HP and regenerates 5hp/s slower.
Compared to the logi that just lolspam his scanner and has scarifices nothing on his suit.
Active scanner MUST be nerfed heavily. |
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
987
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 13:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Django Quik wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) I can get behind this but I think if you give the skill a precision bonus and allow mods to affect them, active scanners won't need a precision buff. Who said anything about a precision BUFF?
Quote:2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
the original idea was for active scanner skill progression to enhance performance. Like +X% range and +Y% precision per level. That is a buff that is unnecessary if it stacks with mods. I think the skill progression bonus should be to cool down time between scans.
Hail Bacon
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Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
987
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Posted - 2014.04.08 13:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Let me just leave this here: Active scanner must die - It's nerf o'clock!Cat Merc wrote:It absolutely negates any form of tactic in this game.
Can't flank - Enemy will just cut you down
Can't rush in unexpectibly - Enemy expects it and cuts you down
Can't dance around boxes - Enemy knows exactly where you are
It breaks too many things.
If you put on profile damps then you are just gimped and can't fight against those scanner users anyway.
My anti scanner suit has 100 less HP and regenerates 5hp/s slower.
Compared to the logi that just lolspam his scanner and has scarifices nothing on his suit.
Active scanner MUST be nerfed heavily.
Thanks for linking a thread from December, back when Active Scanners were actually functioning improperly. Your keen logical insight is a boon to us all. (that was sarcasm. I am explaining that because I didn't think you would pick up on it)
Hail Bacon
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1286
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:
Thanks for linking a thread from December, back when Active Scanners were actually functioning improperly. Your keen logical insight is a boon to us all. (that was sarcasm. I am explaining that because I didn't think you would pick up on it)
Glad I could help!
Honestly, I just find it amusing that one of the biggest proponents of the scanner nerf is unhappy now that the scanner has been nerfed heavily. In 1.8 you can flank, you can rush in unexpectedly, and can dance around boxes - why? Because no one is using active scanners. In doing so you might still get shot in the back of the head by a passive scanning scout, but hey, at least you don't see that "You Have Been Scanned" message 24/7!
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1197
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Let me just leave this here: Active scanner must die - It's nerf o'clock!Cat Merc wrote:It absolutely negates any form of tactic in this game.
Can't flank - Enemy will just cut you down
Can't rush in unexpectibly - Enemy expects it and cuts you down
Can't dance around boxes - Enemy knows exactly where you are
It breaks too many things.
If you put on profile damps then you are just gimped and can't fight against those scanner users anyway.
My anti scanner suit has 100 less HP and regenerates 5hp/s slower.
Compared to the logi that just lolspam his scanner and has scarifices nothing on his suit.
Active scanner MUST be nerfed heavily. Thanks for linking a thread from December, back when Active Scanners were actually functioning improperly. Your keen logical insight is a boon to us all. (that was sarcasm. I am explaining that because I didn't think you would pick up on it)
weird, so it was brokenly powerful before and people in "top" corps were spamming the crap out of them, and you want them back to OP. Ram your whining were the sun don't shine. maybe then you'll actually need a crutch.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5050
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ivan Avogadro wrote:the original idea was for active scanner skill progression to enhance performance. Like +X% range and +Y% precision per level. That is a buff that is unnecessary if it stacks with mods. I think the skill progression bonus should be to cool down time between scans.
Uhhh...
Django Quik wrote:I can get behind this but I think if you give the skill a precision bonus and allow mods to affect them, active scanners won't need a precision buff.
I suggested a nerf to the base scanning stats, but with the ability to get back towards the current stats by training up your scanner skills.
Django was saying that I was proposing both a skill bonus AND a buff to scanners, and stating that would be too much. |
Horizen Kenpachi
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
296
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
My scanners work fine
Hit me with your nerf bat.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8182
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Let me just leave this here: Active scanner must die - It's nerf o'clock!Cat Merc wrote:It absolutely negates any form of tactic in this game.
Can't flank - Enemy will just cut you down
Can't rush in unexpectibly - Enemy expects it and cuts you down
Can't dance around boxes - Enemy knows exactly where you are
It breaks too many things.
If you put on profile damps then you are just gimped and can't fight against those scanner users anyway.
My anti scanner suit has 100 less HP and regenerates 5hp/s slower.
Compared to the logi that just lolspam his scanner and has scarifices nothing on his suit.
Active scanner MUST be nerfed heavily.
The problem is that the scanner doesn't have the scan radius that is listed.
It's actually much lower, so it's practically useless.
Yeah, it was OP, but the flaylock was too, that doesn't mean it doesn't need a buff.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8183
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
Luk Manag wrote:Double the scan angle. 90-¦ to 180-¦, 60-¦ to 120-¦ = a decent comprise.
No, the scan angle right now is broken, it's much lower than it's supposed to be.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8183
|
Posted - 2014.04.08 14:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Ivan Avogadro wrote:
Thanks for linking a thread from December, back when Active Scanners were actually functioning improperly. Your keen logical insight is a boon to us all. (that was sarcasm. I am explaining that because I didn't think you would pick up on it)
Glad I could help! Honestly, I just find it amusing that one of the biggest proponents of the scanner nerf is unhappy now that the scanner has been nerfed heavily. In 1.8 you can flank, you can rush in unexpectedly, and can dance around boxes - why? Because no one is using active scanners. In doing so you might still get shot in the back of the head by a passive scanning scout, but hey, at least you don't see that "You Have Been Scanned" message 24/7!
I approve of the nerf, but the scanner is mechanically broken right now, the scan radius is much lower than what it's supposed to be.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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