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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1198
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Posted - 2014.04.08 14:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:Let me just leave this here: Active scanner must die - It's nerf o'clock!Cat Merc wrote:It absolutely negates any form of tactic in this game.
Can't flank - Enemy will just cut you down
Can't rush in unexpectibly - Enemy expects it and cuts you down
Can't dance around boxes - Enemy knows exactly where you are
It breaks too many things.
If you put on profile damps then you are just gimped and can't fight against those scanner users anyway.
My anti scanner suit has 100 less HP and regenerates 5hp/s slower.
Compared to the logi that just lolspam his scanner and has scarifices nothing on his suit.
Active scanner MUST be nerfed heavily. The problem is that the scanner doesn't have the scan radius that is listed. It's actually much lower, so it's practically useless. Yeah, it was OP, but the flaylock was too, that doesn't mean it doesn't need a buff.
I vote they take the same path they did with the flaylock: Never un-nerf it. Wallhacks should not be an equipment that anyone can just throw on and spam for free points.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1286
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Posted - 2014.04.08 15:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:
I approve of the nerf, but the scanner is mechanically broken right now, the scan radius is much lower than what it's supposed to be.
Really? Did you do actual tests to prove this or are you going by anecdotal evidence from what you felt was happening in-game?
How I would go about testing the scan angles and distance:
1) Equip sniper rifle or other long range weapon to verify distance from an enemy installation.
2) Scan the installation directly and see whether it lights up within the given scan distance/radius.
3) Repeat at different angles of orientation to the installation to confirm whether or not the full angle is being applied.
I've noticed that the scan window is very abrupt, meaning that the two scanning "arms" that appear on the minimap do not fully open to the listed angle. However in pre-1.8 testing I found that the "arms" are just for show, and the full angle applies the instant you initiate the scan. You didn't have to wait until the arms were fully opened in 1.7 to get scan data on that area of your radar, so I doubt you have to in 1.8.
Now, assuming that the angles mentioned above are actually applying correctly in game, then the scanner still sucks, despite doing what it should be doing stats-wise. |
Vell0cet
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
1385
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Posted - 2014.04.08 15:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
For the current scanners, they could start by reducing the cooldown a bit and increasing the arc some, then re-evaluate.
I'd also like to see a new scanner variant introduced. It's an active scanner that scans in 360 degrees for only a 20m radius. There is no cooldown and you can hold the trigger down indefinitely. The catch is that when you release the trigger all scanned targets immediately disappear, and you can't move while scanning. This could be used in conjunction with teamwork to defend strategic locations from cloakies infiltrating your position, but has severe drawbacks as well.
I'd also like to see a deployable introduced that decloaks anything within a 10-15m radius until it's destroyed. It would look distinctly different from existing hives/links. These should have a low count to make it difficult to spam.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
1291
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Posted - 2014.04.08 22:18:00 -
[34] - Quote
FWIW I just tested the Creodron Flux scanner in game, and it definitely IS giving a 90* scan angle despite the very narrow angle indicated by the radar when you initiate your scan.
So basically the scan angles seem to be working as intended, and the scanner just sucks unless you are rather far away from the enemies you intend to scan. |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Dirt Nap Squad.
8189
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Posted - 2014.04.08 23:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:FWIW I just tested the Creodron Flux scanner in game, and it definitely IS giving a 90* scan angle despite the very narrow angle indicated by the radar when you initiate your scan.
So basically the scan angles seem to be working as intended, and the scanner just sucks unless you are rather far away from the enemies you intend to scan.
Hmm, odd, I guess my testing was off.
My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone.
If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
2288
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think the scanner needs a mechanic that allows you to trade dBs for range/scan radius.
For example, a charge mechanic that focuses the beam, while at the same time increasing range and reducing scan radius. This is how antennas work IRL. Focus the beam, more energy goes into the main lobe, and it reaches further and more energy is reflected back.
Risk vs reward right there, since you risk scanning flanks to get a better precision. |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
1035
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle.
aaaand scaners are op again
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5138
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. aaaand scaners are op again
How is it OP for Scanners to NOT hit the precision numbers they reach now without skills and modules stacked onto them, and to NOT have the scannerina spinning as an option when that was the main OP aspect to them?
Please explain how a blanket NERF to their base stats to make Scanners LESS useful on suits that aren't built for them would make them OP? |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
1035
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. aaaand scaners are op again How is it OP for Scanners to NOT hit the precision numbers they reach now without skills and modules stacked onto them, and to NOT have the scannerina spinning as an option when that was the main OP aspect to them? Please explain how a blanket NERF to their base stats to make Scanners LESS useful on suits that aren't built for them would make them OP?
you obviously dont get it, it would make scouts useless too.
no extra crutches for anyone
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5138
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. aaaand scaners are op again How is it OP for Scanners to NOT hit the precision numbers they reach now without skills and modules stacked onto them, and to NOT have the scannerina spinning as an option when that was the main OP aspect to them? Please explain how a blanket NERF to their base stats to make Scanners LESS useful on suits that aren't built for them would make them OP? you obviously dont get it, it would make scouts useless too. no extra crutches for anyone
HOW?
Seriously, EXPLAIN what you THINK I'm saying here. Please? |
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
1035
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Posted - 2014.04.17 08:49:00 -
[41] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:How to ACTUALLY fix Active Scanners:
1. No need to charge, but make them take a snapshot of a specific arc in the instant the button is pressed. No timer, no scan duration. A "snapshot" like we were promised.
2. In conjunction with this snapshot effect, return the scanning arcs they had pre-1.8 because the current tiny arcs are useless when panning makes the scans glitch out and miss random targets for no reason.
And how to rebalance them in a way that weakens cloaks without needing them to be nerfed:
1. Increase the precision value (yes, this is a nerf) of all Active Scanners and reduce their range by a small margin.
2. Make the Active Scanner skill provide a slight precision buff to their use, and make precision enhancers and range amps work with the Scanner.
This would result in Active Scanning Logis who spend several module slots as well as their equipment slot in order to combat cloaked Scouts doing the same thing.
Scouts using only a cloak would become visible to a well-built scanner Logi, but because it's only a limited arc, you could be careful and approach from an unexpected angle. aaaand scaners are op again How is it OP for Scanners to NOT hit the precision numbers they reach now without skills and modules stacked onto them, and to NOT have the scannerina spinning as an option when that was the main OP aspect to them? Please explain how a blanket NERF to their base stats to make Scanners LESS useful on suits that aren't built for them would make them OP? you obviously dont get it, it would make scouts useless too. no extra crutches for anyone HOW? Seriously, EXPLAIN what you THINK I'm saying here. Please?
you want the AS to be op with skills, dampened scouts should be 100% unscanable, thats thier role, i know you want to scan them.
Closed beta vet
Tears, sweet delicious tears
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5138
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Posted - 2014.04.17 09:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:you want the AS to be op with skills, dampened scouts should be 100% unscanable, thats thier role, i know you want to scan them.
I want a skilled up AND modded up Logi to be able to scan a skilled up OR modded up (but not both) cloaked Scout.
Stealth should - when stacked fully - beat out fully stacked scanning.
I've never said otherwise. I've directly stated the exact opposite to what you're claiming I'm asking for multiple times across the various discussions on the topic.
Argue the points I'm ACTUALLY making, not some lunatic invention of your own mind. Thanks. |
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