DUST Search - Let's be real: The Tacnet is OP

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't.

Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls.

-Make chevrons LOS only.
-Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS

Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding.

By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank.

I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you.

Is this correct?

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Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4558	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:32:00 - [1] - Quote The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Aurra Field Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 59	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:38:00 - [2] - Quote I've played nothing but Heavy since I started playing this game. I wish my Tacnet did something. :(
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:39:00 - [3] - Quote #fattyproblems Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Alabaster Shinho DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:42:00 - [4] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I have started playing about 3 months ago,l and I have never relied on Chevrons. Scanners are no longer OP after their nerf, and are now reduced back to their intended role. Dust is purposely trying to have an information war side of its tactics, shown in the Caldari and Gallente suits.
Yan Darn Science For Death 525	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... The Ghost of Bravo
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 215	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:43:00 - [6] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. This is exactly why the cloak is not OP, players refuse to actually use their eyes to see what's right in front of them because they're too busy wondering what's on the radar and where those red chevrons are. Obviously if your eyes are looking at the radar, the blue shimmer of cloaked scouts looks more invisible and blends completely with the scenery. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:43:00 - [7] - Quote Alabaster Shinho wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I have started playing about 3 months ago,l and I have never relied on Chevrons. Scanners are no longer OP after their nerf, and are now reduced back to their intended role. Dust is purposely trying to have an information war side of its tactics, shown in the Caldari and Gallente suits. What works in Eve doesn't necessarily work in a shooter. Wallhacks are ridiculous and should not exist. Recon and intelligence is fine and exists in other games. This system we use now has existed before and was removed because it is unfair , ridiculous, and OP. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:44:00 - [8] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is exactly why the cloak is not OP Correct. I said it in a kind of funny way but that was pretty much my point. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 252	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:45:00 - [9] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... Remember the times when the minimap was an actual 3d map? Speed tanked scouts were also almost impossible to hit those times - we got the latter now, so bring back the former ;>
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 329	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:52:00 - [10] - Quote Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later "Shine bright like a diamond"

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4562	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:54:00 - [11] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Pre-fire ftw. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7954	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:57:00 - [12] - Quote The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. Amarr are the good guys.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 2624	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:59:00 - [13] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. Good point. What would you say to reserving this feature only for active scanners? Video: I don't always fight dropships, but when I do...
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 216	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:00:00 - [14] - Quote I'm also guilty of hunting chevrons, I have killed scouts trying to flank me, because I can see the chevron through the walls and boxes in my commando. In the maps with the ash atmosphere I always think they're chevrons and shoot. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 897	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:00:00 - [15] - Quote Complaining because the enemy knows were you are? Try a profile dampener and some biotics. Now you can flank but you are less effective in a head-on fight....like a scout. Players complain about the Cloak and most of them say that you shouldn't be able to fire until cloak wares off. I somewhat agree and feel that the 2second delay should just be removed. This way you aren't vulnerable any longer then you need to be. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Aria Gomes R 0 N 1 N 360	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:02:00 - [16] - Quote I check my TacNet all the time. XD Sometimes I go around a corner and the guy will be above me or below me. :\|
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 690	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:02:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I think the problem lies when CCP use the "Twin BUFF" theory when do rebalance. Proof? We have scout now and the cloack that seem to be based on 1,7 Scan and tacnet stat. When you buff something and, on the same time, nerf it's counter that become a double BUFF. Dont take me wrong, scanners were a crutch, and 360 spin was bad. Probably was enough to cancel the 360 spin and keep the old stat. I can't fight scout, i'm an Heavy. Scout are my nemesis. But that a logi has no way to scan an enemy scout, even if they want to gimp their fit. It's the same think that happened with Tanks, Buff tanks and nerf AV and BUM, tanks go rampage. An Example? The Cal.Scout. With his HUGE perma passive scan he trade the range ( Vs scanner equip) for a 360 field vision. Sound balanced to me. But since scanners are now useless, we have a scout that can stack shield and armor, with a HUGE passive recharge and a delay shot than Cal.ASS. that can PERMA scan in 37M without the need of any module, with passive skill only. And also with better SPEED,STRAFE and smaller hotbox than Cal.Ass. I don't know what to do. For sure a The shooting while clocked glitch need to go. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4562	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:06:00 - [18] - Quote Scouts have always had good passive scans. People just preferred the easier mode of a super tanked logi with a scanner to give those results. Also scanners rewarded WP. A scout receives no enemy intel kill assists for his job. Also, assault scouts are cheesy and ineffective against real scouts. If they manage to kill a properly fit scout, it's because that guy was surprised by their HP. I can pretty much guarantee that tanked scout won't be getting the other scout again. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 885	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:08:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. How many people are running backwards or camping the wrong way of a hallway?
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7954	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:11:00 - [20] - Quote Just another thought, how can you avoid the "shooting at red chevrons" effect when there is no other way to differentiate enemies from friendlies? Unlike most shooters, in Dust there are no team uniforms or anything like that, the players on the enemy team can be wearing the same exact suits the players on your team are wearing. The red chevron is really the only way to know for sure an enemy is an enemy, unless you want to take the time to make sure your reticle turns red before you shoot. Amarr are the good guys.

Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:12:00 - [21] - Quote So...... The fact that people are being scrubs using the tacnet instead of the much better eyes is why it should be nerfed and people are forced to use their eyes? No. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:13:00 - [22] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Just another thought, how can you avoid the "shooting at red chevrons" effect when there is no other way to differentiate enemies from friendlies? Unlike most shooters, in Dust there are no team uniforms or anything like that, the players on the enemy team can be wearing the same exact suits the players on your team are wearing. The red chevron is really the only way to know for sure an enemy is an enemy, unless you want to take the time to make sure your reticle turns red before you shoot. I think you're taking this a little too extreme. I'm not saying remove chevrons completely. I'm saying remove the wallhackiness from it. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:14:00 - [23] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: So...... The fact that people are being scrubs using the tacnet instead of the much better eyes is why it should be nerfed and people are forced to use their eyes? No. Wallhacks are a joke. You cannot be serious. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 690	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:14:00 - [24] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Scouts have always had good passive scans. People just preferred the easier mode of a super tanked logi with a scanner to give those results. Also scanners rewarded WP. A scout receives no enemy intel kill assists for his job. Also, assault scouts are cheesy and ineffective against real scouts. If they manage to kill a properly fit scout, it's because that guy was surprised by their HP. I can pretty much guarantee that tanked scout won't be getting the other scout again. I know you are a great scout and not a simply FOTM chaser. Like tanks problem start to begin when you have to bring a scout to kill a scout. Like a tank for a tank. I think that the lack of utility that the equip scanner have now is one of the source. Why equip and EWAR module when there's nothing that isn't a scout that can scan you? Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 628	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:15:00 - [25] - Quote i like tacnet, never really used it much, but i enjoy it being their It'll help define roles, i promise:)
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:17:00 - [26] - Quote Wallhack > Seeing a chevron above a guy's head who is through the wall. That has to go. Remaining on the tacet > Your blip on the radar in the upper left hand is still there but your exact position is not painted. That can stay. You still know a guy is there but you remove the ability to aim and prefire before you even know that guy is there or coming around the corner. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1261	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:30:00 - [27] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you. Is this correct? Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
Rusty Shallows 1436	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:30:00 - [28] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Checking your fire? Someone plays Faction War. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:32:00 - [29] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you. Is this correct? That's a bingo. An illustrative guide----> http://imgur.com/Ilr6wev Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 990	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:42:00 - [30] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Checking your fire? Someone plays Faction War. I THINK Smurf is Amarr FacWar. Not 100% sure, though. I don't need luck, I have a cloak. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone



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