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Let's be real: The Tacnet is OP

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Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4558	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:32:00 - [1] - Quote The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Aurra Field Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 59	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:38:00 - [2] - Quote I've played nothing but Heavy since I started playing this game. I wish my Tacnet did something. :(
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:39:00 - [3] - Quote #fattyproblems Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Alabaster Shinho DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:42:00 - [4] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I have started playing about 3 months ago,l and I have never relied on Chevrons. Scanners are no longer OP after their nerf, and are now reduced back to their intended role. Dust is purposely trying to have an information war side of its tactics, shown in the Caldari and Gallente suits.
Yan Darn Science For Death 525	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:42:00 - [5] - Quote I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... The Ghost of Bravo
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 215	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:43:00 - [6] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. This is exactly why the cloak is not OP, players refuse to actually use their eyes to see what's right in front of them because they're too busy wondering what's on the radar and where those red chevrons are. Obviously if your eyes are looking at the radar, the blue shimmer of cloaked scouts looks more invisible and blends completely with the scenery. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:43:00 - [7] - Quote Alabaster Shinho wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I have started playing about 3 months ago,l and I have never relied on Chevrons. Scanners are no longer OP after their nerf, and are now reduced back to their intended role. Dust is purposely trying to have an information war side of its tactics, shown in the Caldari and Gallente suits. What works in Eve doesn't necessarily work in a shooter. Wallhacks are ridiculous and should not exist. Recon and intelligence is fine and exists in other games. This system we use now has existed before and was removed because it is unfair , ridiculous, and OP. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4559	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:44:00 - [8] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: This is exactly why the cloak is not OP Correct. I said it in a kind of funny way but that was pretty much my point. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 252	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:45:00 - [9] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... Remember the times when the minimap was an actual 3d map? Speed tanked scouts were also almost impossible to hit those times - we got the latter now, so bring back the former ;>
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 329	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:52:00 - [10] - Quote Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later "Shine bright like a diamond"

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4562	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:54:00 - [11] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Pre-fire ftw. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7954	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:57:00 - [12] - Quote The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. Amarr are the good guys.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 2624	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:59:00 - [13] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. Good point. What would you say to reserving this feature only for active scanners? Video: I don't always fight dropships, but when I do...
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 216	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:00:00 - [14] - Quote I'm also guilty of hunting chevrons, I have killed scouts trying to flank me, because I can see the chevron through the walls and boxes in my commando. In the maps with the ash atmosphere I always think they're chevrons and shoot. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 897	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:00:00 - [15] - Quote Complaining because the enemy knows were you are? Try a profile dampener and some biotics. Now you can flank but you are less effective in a head-on fight....like a scout. Players complain about the Cloak and most of them say that you shouldn't be able to fire until cloak wares off. I somewhat agree and feel that the 2second delay should just be removed. This way you aren't vulnerable any longer then you need to be. Scout Tactician Dance puppets, DANCE!
Aria Gomes R 0 N 1 N 360	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:02:00 - [16] - Quote I check my TacNet all the time. XD Sometimes I go around a corner and the guy will be above me or below me. :\|
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 690	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:02:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I think the problem lies when CCP use the "Twin BUFF" theory when do rebalance. Proof? We have scout now and the cloack that seem to be based on 1,7 Scan and tacnet stat. When you buff something and, on the same time, nerf it's counter that become a double BUFF. Dont take me wrong, scanners were a crutch, and 360 spin was bad. Probably was enough to cancel the 360 spin and keep the old stat. I can't fight scout, i'm an Heavy. Scout are my nemesis. But that a logi has no way to scan an enemy scout, even if they want to gimp their fit. It's the same think that happened with Tanks, Buff tanks and nerf AV and BUM, tanks go rampage. An Example? The Cal.Scout. With his HUGE perma passive scan he trade the range ( Vs scanner equip) for a 360 field vision. Sound balanced to me. But since scanners are now useless, we have a scout that can stack shield and armor, with a HUGE passive recharge and a delay shot than Cal.ASS. that can PERMA scan in 37M without the need of any module, with passive skill only. And also with better SPEED,STRAFE and smaller hotbox than Cal.Ass. I don't know what to do. For sure a The shooting while clocked glitch need to go. Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4562	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:06:00 - [18] - Quote Scouts have always had good passive scans. People just preferred the easier mode of a super tanked logi with a scanner to give those results. Also scanners rewarded WP. A scout receives no enemy intel kill assists for his job. Also, assault scouts are cheesy and ineffective against real scouts. If they manage to kill a properly fit scout, it's because that guy was surprised by their HP. I can pretty much guarantee that tanked scout won't be getting the other scout again. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 885	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:08:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: The fact that tacnet also tells you what direction the enemy is facing is a little much IMO. How many people are running backwards or camping the wrong way of a hallway?
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 7954	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:11:00 - [20] - Quote Just another thought, how can you avoid the "shooting at red chevrons" effect when there is no other way to differentiate enemies from friendlies? Unlike most shooters, in Dust there are no team uniforms or anything like that, the players on the enemy team can be wearing the same exact suits the players on your team are wearing. The red chevron is really the only way to know for sure an enemy is an enemy, unless you want to take the time to make sure your reticle turns red before you shoot. Amarr are the good guys.

Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:12:00 - [21] - Quote So...... The fact that people are being scrubs using the tacnet instead of the much better eyes is why it should be nerfed and people are forced to use their eyes? No. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:13:00 - [22] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Just another thought, how can you avoid the "shooting at red chevrons" effect when there is no other way to differentiate enemies from friendlies? Unlike most shooters, in Dust there are no team uniforms or anything like that, the players on the enemy team can be wearing the same exact suits the players on your team are wearing. The red chevron is really the only way to know for sure an enemy is an enemy, unless you want to take the time to make sure your reticle turns red before you shoot. I think you're taking this a little too extreme. I'm not saying remove chevrons completely. I'm saying remove the wallhackiness from it. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:14:00 - [23] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: So...... The fact that people are being scrubs using the tacnet instead of the much better eyes is why it should be nerfed and people are forced to use their eyes? No. Wallhacks are a joke. You cannot be serious. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 690	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:14:00 - [24] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Scouts have always had good passive scans. People just preferred the easier mode of a super tanked logi with a scanner to give those results. Also scanners rewarded WP. A scout receives no enemy intel kill assists for his job. Also, assault scouts are cheesy and ineffective against real scouts. If they manage to kill a properly fit scout, it's because that guy was surprised by their HP. I can pretty much guarantee that tanked scout won't be getting the other scout again. I know you are a great scout and not a simply FOTM chaser. Like tanks problem start to begin when you have to bring a scout to kill a scout. Like a tank for a tank. I think that the lack of utility that the equip scanner have now is one of the source. Why equip and EWAR module when there's nothing that isn't a scout that can scan you? Cal.Heavy-Min.Heavy-Amarr.Heavy Believe in the FORGE, young padawans SoloDoloreSuCharlie
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 628	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:15:00 - [25] - Quote i like tacnet, never really used it much, but i enjoy it being their It'll help define roles, i promise:)
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:17:00 - [26] - Quote Wallhack > Seeing a chevron above a guy's head who is through the wall. That has to go. Remaining on the tacet > Your blip on the radar in the upper left hand is still there but your exact position is not painted. That can stay. You still know a guy is there but you remove the ability to aim and prefire before you even know that guy is there or coming around the corner. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1261	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:30:00 - [27] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you. Is this correct? Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
Rusty Shallows 1436	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:30:00 - [28] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Checking your fire? Someone plays Faction War. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4563	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:32:00 - [29] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you. Is this correct? That's a bingo. An illustrative guide----> http://imgur.com/Ilr6wev Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Luna Angelo We Who Walk Alone 990	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:42:00 - [30] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Master Smurf wrote: Cyrius just forced me to up my game. I usually wait for visual confirmation. Now I know, just lead with gunfire and wait to actually see later Checking your fire? Someone plays Faction War. I THINK Smurf is Amarr FacWar. Not 100% sure, though. I don't need luck, I have a cloak. Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep. CEO of We Who Walk Alone

Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1336	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:43:00 - [31] - Quote So your saying people show up on radar as usual but would not have a arrow a ove their head? I wouldent mind this. I use radar more than the chevrons anyway.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4564	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:52:00 - [32] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: So your saying people show up on radar as usual but would not have a arrow a ove their head? I wouldent mind this. I use radar more than the chevrons anyway. Correct. I put some images up in the OP to help show what I mean. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Duke Noobiam Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 53	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:57:00 - [33] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... That's exactly what the scanning / dampening / cloaking is... It's a broad, in depth Ewar. I'm very serious, Ewar is good and alive in Dust. Skills and equipment (precision enhancers, dampeners, and range amplifiers) as well as scanners all play a big role on the battle field. CCP has done a great job on Ewar. When the red river runs, take the dirt road.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1261	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:04:00 - [34] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. I get it, you see people in your minimap but, even if he is on the other side of the wall, his chevron doesn't appear. So for example, if you're inside a building while using a scout, you can see that there are people in it but, unless they are LOS, you can't know if they are in the room next to you or on the room on top of you. Is this correct? That's a bingo. An illustrative guide----> http://imgur.com/Ilr6wev http://imgur.com/DXV4OBL Makes perfect sense Plasma Cannon Advocate Heavy event survivor
Scheneighnay McBob Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4672	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:10:00 - [35] - Quote There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. I'm from the weird side of the internet
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4567	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:12:00 - [36] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. Decoys that light up the tacnet making it utterly useless would be amazing. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 332	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:14:00 - [37] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. I always thought that type of stuff would be great for scouts pre cloak. A decoy type of equipment that could fake signatures to make someone believe a squad was approaching or a fake explosive to draw the enemies attention while you flank or infiltrate an area. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Scheneighnay McBob Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4672	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:19:00 - [38] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. I always thought that type of stuff would be great for scouts pre cloak. A decoy type of equipment that could fake signatures to make someone believe a squad was approaching or a fake explosive to draw the enemies attention while you flank or infiltrate an area. I also saw something (very old) where devs were talking about wanting to put an interesting form of "cloaking" on dropships- rather than the cloaking scouts have now, it makes them temporarily appear friendly. I'm from the weird side of the internet
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2146	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:20:00 - [39] - Quote Everybody has it. Everybody uses it. Everybody has the same... Tacnet can't be OP. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4569	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:25:00 - [40] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Everybody has it. Everybody uses it. Everybody has the same... Tacnet can't be OP. That's a poor attitude and a poor argument. Name one other modern first person shooter that has wallhacks as a feature. Battlefield took out their spot mechanic's ability to see through walls because it is ridiculously unbalanced. It doesn't matter that "everyone has it." It is a **** poor mechanic. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.

Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1042	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:32:00 - [41] - Quote Definitely an interesting way of looking at it. I don't know how I fell really so I cannot comment on it entirely. But it is an interesting thought; "because cloaks pass the Tacnet people say they are too powerful; the Tacnet might be the problem." Gotta think on that one. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 1092	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:43:00 - [42] - Quote I know this sounds strange but I think its been a feature for so long I never even see it any more. To be honest if this was changed I don't think it would make much difference - Level design is very linear for the most part. As to the 'wallhackiness' of it... I dunno.. me personally I use my eyes first, the tacnet second and the chevrons last. See enemy check tacnet for other threats Engage enemies Look at tacnet for next target Go to location. If I don't see them right away they're obviously above me (usually, but lets face it, the alternatives are limited) All the chevrons do is confirm what I've already deduced. So yeah, get rid of it. Its pointless anyway. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
Izlare Lenix Arrogance. 367	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:48:00 - [43] - Quote I agree. Scanners are in a better place now than before and passive scans have their pros and cons. But walk hacks are f'ing stupid. Pre aiming, and waiting for the red to stick his head out seems like something a child's game would have. Yet we all do it because everyone else does it. Wall hacks reduce the ability to shoot from cover and removes the importance of constantly changing positions. Wall hacks need to go. Lastly, I don't think any scanner, passive or active, should show which way the enemy is facing. That is too much Intel gained for free. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Khan Hun Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 71	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:58:00 - [44] - Quote I've been playing as a scout and commando so I see tacnet from both sides of the coin, for the scout its great and for the commando it doesn't do a great deal unless I use an active scanner. I think with some tweaks things should stay as they are, I would rather have a complex system of Ewar that promotes interesting fitting choices and team play than I would have a solo-friendly twitch style gameplay. This from a guy in an NPC corp who runs solo as well! As far as it being like a childs game, I actually think its more realistic than not having it. If we are in this universe with a suit wired into our brains and a scanner, it seems pretty sensible to me. Besides, if you know 'roughly' that a guy is behind a wall, there is only one place he is going to stick his head out at, you hardly need a red dot to stick your sight there and wait for him. What would be really cool is an anti-active scanner that scrambles enemy tacnet for X seconds. It could work the reverse of how scanning works: the higher your scan profile or lower your precision the quicker you recover or less you are effected. That way you could time a push out of cover by activating the anti-scanner.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1929	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:02:00 - [45] - Quote Duke Noobiam wrote: Yan Darn wrote: I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... That's exactly what the scanning / dampening / cloaking is... It's a broad, in depth Ewar. I'm very serious, Ewar is good and alive in Dust. Skills and equipment (precision enhancers, dampeners, and range amplifiers) as well as scanners all play a big role on the battle field. CCP has done a great job on Ewar. I'm feeling this way about it also. With the exception of scouts, every other suit in the game is gimping their fit to play the ewar game, and for most heavies it's not a practical possibility - they're almost always on the receiving end of this mechanic. The ewar system is one of the few complete systems that work well in DUST, it is mostly balanced and has interesting tradeoffs and requires significant investment. Do wallhacks take away from FPS gameplay? Yes. Does the ewar system add to DUST's gameplay? Yes. Is there a way we can have both? Yes. Proposal: Keep the chevrons, but introduce a hell of a lot more inaccuracy, so that the guy you're wallhacking could very well step out of that doorway when his chevron was 2 metres back from it, or you could waste a half-clip trying to anticipate the headshot and get caught half-empty or reloading or be force to swap weapons. For an Assault scanning other Assaults the max accuracy for passive scan wallhack with proto skills and a proto module should be .5 metres. For Logis .35m For Scouts .1m. Accuracy would be another way to distinguish scouts, adding to the combinatorics of damping/precision/range. It might be a way to distinguish logis or even the various races in the ewar game. And a jammer module meant to throw off chevron location but not affect damping would be an interesting choice for suits that couldn't get under scout precision anyway. I've rarely notice much inaccuracy in the HUD or on the minimap in a reddot's reported location. That inaccuracy should be bigger, a lot bigger. There should really be another stat for scanning: Scan Accuracy, and a corresponding skill and modules. Back when the scanning skills first came out, reading the descriptions lead me to believe that there would be a lot more inaccuracy in where a chevron would be in relation to the suit's real position. Fully leveled and properly fit scouts would be wallhackers, but that was fine given their gimped(lol) tank. Now we have 600 ehp wallhacking ghosts. Not good, but lets not tear down a solid ewar system over tanky scouts. Personally, i don't really mind the wallhacking game. I fit my sver suit with proto damper/profile enhancer not to fight scouts, but to fight heavies/mediums. That comes at a big cost on a 2 high/2 low slot suit, but it's my decision to make, and it's a non-trivial decision. I support SP rollover.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 353	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:23:00 - [46] - Quote If you can't upgrade the community, nerf the game. #bestcommunityever Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4870	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:27:00 - [47] - Quote Aurra Field wrote: I've played nothing but Heavy since I started playing this game. I wish my Tacnet did something. :( *MAIN REASON Heavies get to see and kill more scouts. They actually use their eyes since their radar functions are crp.** Cloak is not OP, People spend too much time looking at the minimap.... Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14154	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:29:00 - [48] - Quote Would kill for 'enemy spotted' key/button. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Jenza's Pants The Hetairoi 148	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:32:00 - [49] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. edit: Since people are apparently confused as to what I mean here's a pretty clear diagram: http://imgur.com/Ilr6wev http://imgur.com/DXV4OBL That red chevron is on what is called the "3-D Map" and it needs to go when LOS is broken. Keep the tacnet (upper left) the same. The fact that you can track an enemy before they even come out from behind a wall is ridiculous. It is not good game play and should not exist. yes yes, has nothing to do with the fact you can unload a shotgun before you decloak...
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4870	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:38:00 - [50] - Quote Jenza's Pants wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The only reason why people are even considering that the cloak is OP is because the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. The game has trained it's players to not even shoot at people. They shoot at chevrons. Even I myself am guilty of this. I'll come out around a corner firing wildly because there's a chevron there, and low and behold that guy was actually further out on the map. All of you do this as well. Don't act like you don't. Dust is a giant game of "hunt the chevron." People don't even bother using their ears or eyes. They just look for the arrows pointing to their enemy through walls. -Make chevrons LOS only. -Scanned enemies are on tacnet but NOT 3D map unless LOS Congratulations with those changes you've moved from the Bad Company 2 style spot system to a system that is more fair, and less hand holding. By removing persistent chevrons you indirectly buff all classes by allowing them to do the impossible: Flank. edit: Since people are apparently confused as to what I mean here's a pretty clear diagram: http://imgur.com/Ilr6wev http://imgur.com/DXV4OBL That red chevron is on what is called the "3-D Map" and it needs to go when LOS is broken. Keep the tacnet (upper left) the same. The fact that you can track an enemy before they even come out from behind a wall is ridiculous. It is not good game play and should not exist. yes yes, has nothing to do with the fact you can unload a shotgun before you decloak... I dont use shotguns yet i have games (RATHER frequently) where i go 45-3 / 50-4 etc... I use SMG's. So whats the excuse now? That i can ''UNLOAD'' 2 SMG bullets before the cloak disappears ? LOL, this is one LAME excuse to call the Cloak OP, and IF CCP removes it, will make NO CHANGE at all, and sad butthurt players will find another excuse to try and cover their own mistakes... Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread

Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4572	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:51:00 - [51] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Would kill for 'enemy spotted' key/button. Would be nice but I'm trying to stay within our current mechanics. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4574	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:06:00 - [52] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: If you can't upgrade the community, nerf the game. #bestcommunityever Wallhacks are a terrible hand holding system. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 374	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:14:00 - [53] - Quote Looks at Tac net ..... sees nothing Sigh......being a solo lonely heavy is a painful thing ....... No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Flyingconejo KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 718	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:15:00 - [54] - Quote Agreed with the OP, +1.
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:17:00 - [55] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. Decoys that light up the tacnet making it utterly useless would be amazing. why? spamming eauipmment close together already renders the min map unusable Thr33 is the magic number.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4575	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:18:00 - [56] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: There should be equipment that puts out fake chevrons. Decoys that light up the tacnet making it utterly useless would be amazing. why? spamming eauipmment close together already renders the min map unusable lol well that's another problem all together. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:32:00 - [57] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: If you can't upgrade the community, nerf the game. #bestcommunityever Wallhacks are a terrible hand holding system. OK you're killing me here. Isn't the whole idea of the Gal scout to be under the "wallhack" raider. I understand that you don't like the mechanic to begin with but if it can be fairly easily beaten then who cares? if anything turn up scanning precision so that more scouts can stay under the raider. building on my other post above I hate the Mini map. it gets cluttered so quickly that it's worthless in organized fights and then to look on your hud and see nothing...IDK, i think that we should just leave well enough alone. Thr33 is the magic number.
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 91	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:34:00 - [58] - Quote I don't follow you OP, pretty sure I shoot at dropsuits and dropsuit accessories. Also, have you even begun as to try how to work the sensor game? One complex dampener and you're pretty much set for most of your daily flanking needs. Yeah, just double checked the time-stamp of your post to make sure this wasn't from back in beta when everyone knew where everyone else always was... Unless you just don't want sensors? Wait for the area jammers OP, they're coming; probably, eventually, soon even. ;I
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4575	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:37:00 - [59] - Quote ugg reset wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: If you can't upgrade the community, nerf the game. #bestcommunityever Wallhacks are a terrible hand holding system. OK you're killing me here. Isn't the whole idea of the Gal scout to be under the "wallhack" raider. I understand that you don't like the mechanic to begin with but if it can be fairly easily beaten then who cares? if anything turn up scanning precision so that more scouts can stay under the raider. building on my other post above I hate the Mini map. it gets cluttered so quickly that it's worthless in organized fights and then to look on your hud and see nothing...IDK, i think that we should just leave well enough alone. Yes being "under" it is part of the perks of being any scout. That doesn't make it a good mechanic. Nobody should have to deal with being tracked through a wall regardless of what suit they're wearing. Scouts should stay off the minimap. Simple as that. The radar being cluttered with equipment spam is another problem all together. The wallhack chevron is just ridiculous. I'll be very very very clear. Me being able to headshot you, knife you, shotgun you the instant you came out of a door or around a corner because I aimed just below the chevron is not me being good. It does not require skill. It is cheap and hand holding. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:39:00 - [60] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Would kill for 'enemy spotted' key/button. hmm, I'd settle for a temporary waypoint that could be set and seen by anyone in the squad. maybe even have a different number for each slot in the squad so that SL could tell who is pointing at what should two come up. Thr33 is the magic number.

Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 641	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:47:00 - [61] - Quote that's only the case for scouts which is probably their greatest strength besides stealth. A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. GalHeav E-vo
Onesimus Tarsus 1838	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:50:00 - [62] - Quote Remove tacnet, put everyone on full permanent cloak, perfect game. If you don't see me, it's because I'm not where you're looking. I'd rather be unscannable than invisible.
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Die Fremdenlegion 119	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:00:00 - [63] - Quote My Caldari assault was fitted with dampeners and it was quite funny that some peolpe did not "see" me. Gave me some funny moments. I think the tacnet is not OP. You can counter it with dampeners.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2723	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:21:00 - [64] - Quote Don't take my crutch away Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Yan Darn Science For Death 529	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:29:00 - [65] - Quote I remember joking pre 1.8 about my passive scan on my gal scout being OP, it's really weird to see a discussion like this, but I think it's a combination of things - for various reasons, the increased usage of scouts plus active scanners were nerfed - stealth got a double buff as someone said. There are other reasons the whole Ewar thing is out of kilter... Duke Noobiam wrote: Yan Darn wrote: I always figured the prominence of the tac-net was precisely because CCP had a broad, in depth Ewar game in mind that would revolve around manipulating it. Then again, I'm sure CCP had/has a lot of things in mind for Dust that we'll probably not see for some time... That's exactly what the scanning / dampening / cloaking is... It's a broad, in depth Ewar. I'm very serious, Ewar is good and alive in Dust. Skills and equipment (precision enhancers, dampeners, and range amplifiers) as well as scanners all play a big role on the battle field. CCP has done a great job on Ewar. Well EVE does it better - albeit some things can't be transferred to an FPS (though an FPS opens up new opportunities). The biggest reason the Ewar seems unpolished to me is the 'you must be this tall...' Nature of the current Stealth Ewar - that is the reason Ewar seems even more powerful in the hands of scouts. It always takes X amount of dampeners/precison mods to achieve the required effect. Sometimes using a complex damp or precison mod gets you absolutley nothing - compare this to using a tanking, damage or even Biotics mod in that slot; at least you know you have some bonus to whatever you are doing, with Ewar mods you have to build your whole fit around it really. That is talking about non-scouts for the most part - but I can assure everyone, scouts always had a relatively huge Ewar advantage over other frames - it's just now other/med frames are less abusable and scouts have other plus points, whereas before they had none. Just please, let's not go back to only one scout, at proto level, with all slots filled with complex damps being able to avoid the strongest scanner. The Ghost of Bravo
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2150	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:47:00 - [66] - Quote Interesting points. Currently the tacnet system seems to be a bit much, so I do think some tweaks are in order. I also think the "wallhacky" aspects should stay, but in a heavily modified way. In Gotham City Imposters there was a piece of equipment that literally highlighted the other team. Not just a chevron, but the entire body was highlighted and you could see how big they were and what weapon they were carrying. I think Dust's EWAR has quite a few lessons to learn from that game, as it was both fun and rewarding to be a spotter for my team. Passive scans should work as you suggest, but an active scanner should mark the target - walls be damned. That would give the AS a clear cut and incredibly useful role on the battlefield. Gal-mando. Because the best sidearm is a shotgun.
lampwizard Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.04.07 01:00:00 - [67] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: the tacnet is absolutely OP and the cloak circumvents that. Low scan profile circumvents it. If your suggestions were implemented what do you think would happen to the relevancy of damp modules? Would you suggest some corresponding change to keep fitting diversity? Also, I agree that facing being displayed in tacnet is cat product.


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