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Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2295	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:19:00 - [1] - Quote -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2623	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:23:00 - [2] - Quote GalScout has a higher armour ceiling than Amarr Assault. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
Henrietta Unknown Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 103	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:24:00 - [3] - Quote Agreed...I don't tank my scout, and I go 10/0 in FW. That said, FW players are more often oblivious than Pubs. But even on my Cal scout, I can't pick up anyone with my precision and amplifiers modules. It's only after I have visual contact that they appear on radar...or am I not knowing something here
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 2295	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:26:00 - [4] - Quote Henrietta Unknown wrote: Agreed...I don't tank my scout, and I go 10/0 in FW. That said, FW players are more often oblivious than Pubs. But even on my Cal scout, I can't pick up anyone with my precision and amplifiers modules. It's only after I have visual contact that they appear on radar...or am I not knowing something here ...hmmm...2 advanced precision amps and ill pick up everything except the ninja purist gallente with a 150k isk suit. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 2715	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:26:00 - [5] - Quote Well that ain't fair my Samarri naturally has more than 300 eh :( Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
byte modal 65	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:27:00 - [6] - Quote I run damps or range enhancers depending on the mood and precision boosts with maybe a damage mod or two. I couldn't care less about HP in this fit. I know one hit and I'm done. That's why I'm hiding, and I dig it. I don't lean one way or another regarding fit preference. If bricks are causing ripples in other fits, then ya maybe some type of dev nudge might be good. I'm curious what the replies will be here. Irony: Post #35
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2389	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:28:00 - [7] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: GalScout has a higher armour ceiling than Amarr Assault. GalScout has a higher armour ceiling than Minmatar Asault EHP Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 216	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:29:00 - [8] - Quote A note to keep in mind is to not screw up the bonuses of the Assault, like they did with Logistics by making them too specific. Nevertheless, I do like the proposed bonuses in MODULES for the Assaults, but Damage Modifiers are almost obsolete. Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
byte modal 65	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:32:00 - [9] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: Henrietta Unknown wrote: Agreed...I don't tank my scout, and I go 10/0 in FW. That said, FW players are more often oblivious than Pubs. But even on my Cal scout, I can't pick up anyone with my precision and amplifiers modules. It's only after I have visual contact that they appear on radar...or am I not knowing something here ...hmmm...2 advanced precision amps and ill pick up everything except the ninja purist gallente with a 150k isk suit. Hell. I've run near open, ground level objectives with nothing on radar only to visually spot a commando right in front of me. Just happened that he had his back to me but still. My precision skills are maxed and at range. I'm fitting precision and range mods and still sometimes nothing pings until they're right on me. It's not always, but enough to take notice. I run cal scout. Irony: Post #35
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2389	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:32:00 - [10] - Quote The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.

Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1649	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:41:00 - [11] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. Nerdier than thou
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:42:00 - [12] - Quote Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 2103	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:44:00 - [13] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus O'Dell ... Reducing base HP of Gal and Cal would punish those (like me) who lean toward ewar or biotics. I die pretty quick at 300HP ... and you'd have me die faster? That's silly.
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 160	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:45:00 - [14] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. I'm a logi now! :D
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:47:00 - [15] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. Wait, what about Amarr scouts? Also, every Caldari scout ive seen tanks shield and throws a plate or two on their lows, that brigs them up to 440/160-240. There are maybe 2 guys I know who don't brick tank scouts. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:48:00 - [16] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. Please tell me how this screws over a GalLogi? Because of scanners? Is that what you mean? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1649	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:50:00 - [17] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. Wait, what about Amarr scouts? Also, every Caldari scout ive seen tanks shield and throws a plate or two on their lows, that brigs them up to 440/160-240. There are maybe 2 guys I know who don't brick tank scouts. No intrinsic reps makes the Amarr a much less scary armor tanker. Either you can whittle them down due to 0 regen and low speed, or they automatically have less EHP than the Gal scout- they're simply blatantly worse armor tankers than the Gal scout. It really comes down to 5 effective lows (Amarr: 4 lows, 1 free cardiac reg) vs 7 effective lows (Gal: 4 lows, 3hp/s, free complex damp, free basic range amp). The Amarr vs Gal scout balancing is just an absolute joke. Nerdier than thou
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 160	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:50:00 - [18] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. Please tell me how this screws over a GalLogi? Because of scanners? Is that what you mean? The speed penalty. My GalLogi already runs at six meters a seconds. If there was a higher speed penalty to the armor plates I'd be going at about five meters a sec. I'm a logi now! :D
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1165	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:52:00 - [19] - Quote Hp ceilings (total HP, armor and shield) for STD/ADV/PRO for scouts should be about 220/300/500 respectively. This includes armor and shield combined. On a basic gal scout, you can get well over 500 armor easily with just ADV and STD plates. Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2623	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:53:00 - [20] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. 50hp/s and 15s to full shields from armour says no, you get lumped in too. Gal and Amarr (to a lesser extent) have more significant issues, true, but Caldari cannot be discounted. ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien

Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:54:00 - [21] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. Wait, what about Amarr scouts? Also, every Caldari scout ive seen tanks shield and throws a plate or two on their lows, that brigs them up to 440/160-240. There are maybe 2 guys I know who don't brick tank scouts. No intrinsic reps makes the Amarr a much less scary armor tanker. Either you can whittle them down due to 0 regen and low speed, or they automatically have less EHP than the Gal scout- they're simply blatantly worse armor tankers than the Gal scout. It could be made up slightly with a complex reactive to be fair, not to mention the built in stamina bonus lets them run further and recover faster. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:54:00 - [22] - Quote Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. - Change armor mods to +% base armor instead of a flat bonus. +40% / +50% / +60% (basic/adv/pro) for light and medium, heavy suits would receive a 60% fitting penalty and the plate bonuses would be more closer to +15% / +20% / +25% armor for heavy frames. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1649	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:56:00 - [23] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. Wait, what about Amarr scouts? Also, every Caldari scout ive seen tanks shield and throws a plate or two on their lows, that brigs them up to 440/160-240. There are maybe 2 guys I know who don't brick tank scouts. No intrinsic reps makes the Amarr a much less scary armor tanker. Either you can whittle them down due to 0 regen and low speed, or they automatically have less EHP than the Gal scout- they're simply blatantly worse armor tankers than the Gal scout. It could be made up slightly with a complex reactive to be fair, not to mention the built in stamina bonus lets them run further and recover faster. See my edit on effective slot counts. Anything Amarr can do, Gal can do better. Reposted for your convenience: It really comes down to 5 effective lows (Amarr: 4 lows, 1 free cardiac reg) vs 7 effective lows (Gal: 4 lows, 3hp/s, free complex damp, free basic range amp). Nerdier than thou
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1649	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:57:00 - [24] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. Nerdier than thou
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:57:00 - [25] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. Please tell me how this screws over a GalLogi? Because of scanners? Is that what you mean? The speed penalty. My GalLogi already runs at six meters a seconds. If there was a higher speed penalty to the armor plates I'd be going at about five meters a sec. A 1 percent increase to basic and enhanced plates would hardly make a difference to medium suits, it would slow down scouts considerably. Complex plates can stay the same since they are balanced, you get a lot of hp for a relatively large speed penalty and the CPU/PG consumption is spot on. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Scheneighnay McBob Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 4660	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:58:00 - [26] - Quote If you brick tank a scout, not only are you getting the initial movement speed and shield delay penalties, but those modules are taking up slots that could be used for the "Scout modules" It's not abusing the scout as much as it is creating an additional play style with the scout suit. As far as damage mods go, I've always thought those where the only highs for scouts that make sense to use besides precision enhancers. Killing someone before they have a chance to retaliate and all. I've also noticed that in just about every MMO ever, the stealth class with high alpha is always the #1 bitched about. They aren't tactically very useful, but people just care that it killed them before their teammates stomped on it. I'm from the weird side of the internet
ITS-A-ME MAAAARIO Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:07:00 - [27] - Quote guuys guys.. the best thing to do is this: Reduce the pg/cpu of scouts Reduce the pg cpu of the "scouts" modules Right now brick tanking is the thing that is most pg cpu effective because all theose modules require little cpu and pg compared to lets say red pills
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:07:00 - [28] - Quote @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout can abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 240	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:12:00 - [29] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus Let's get this straight, Amarr and Gal have same slot layout so both can tank (best) effectively. The Cal scout can also tank effectively with its 4-2 slot layout but a Min scout is going to have a hard time due to its (should be) running NK for its bonus. 3-3 is still 6 slots, yes, but the reason you run a brick tank is it be successful and running a Min scout brick tank is far less likely. Next point, the Amarr going into 1.8 seem like it was suppose to be a brick tank, so complaining about the Gal and Min and Cal brick tanking seems ridiculous. Amarr potential as a light infantry was highly prized and maybe should be only class allowed to exceed a certain eHP limit (say 600 eHP). Furthermore, a 300 limit on eHP, yea you can stfu about that because thats so low, Stop telling people how to use their slots. People will go with what works best, and you should always encourage players to try a variety of builds; and during battle one should be flexible enough to adapt to a brick tank, a speed hacker, AA etc.. I don't see a problem with high eHP scouts, especially if cloaks were to go. But setting a low limit is dumb, setting a higher limit will allow more flexibility in battle. Cal scouts are perfectly fine where they are, they have a huge strength, a balanced weakness ( due to 2 lows), and don't need any tinkering. The Gal scout is fine and will be on par with Cal and Amarr once Amarr gets a boost to its bonus (idea below). The Min Scout is a disaster at advanced, and is still behind at Proto level. Your suggestion to change bonus isn't a bad one but i think where you put the bonus is wrong. First, the scout class bonus needs to go and cloaks needs to be available for new scouts, or lower SP scouts to use properly, while they can restrict cloaks to scout only after the lowering of its CPU/PG. It's an equipment slot which only reward those with the SP to afford lv4-5 scout suits. Which means anyone under 9m SP might not be able too. Removing the scout bonus can open up options for all and make cloaks available to lower SP players at no serious drawback to their builds. I know Amarr need a complex card minimum as their racial bonus, but adding in extras like bonus WP to a counter hack or making equipment invisible at longer ranges (goes with a saboteur role perfectly). Maybe Amarr can even hack others equipment and gain the WP it provides to teammates once it has switched sides. Would be something cool. It would mean a vital role on the battlefield, and high WP payouts for racial and objective play. Most of the ideas given by Amarr elite players are so OP its funny. Yes Min needs a boost to PG, a marginal one. What they really need is all racial NK to be released and come with a PG reduction skill. Yes, i like a boost to kin cats because their slot layout is terrible at advanced 3/2 means no speed or no stealth) and still subpar at Proto (3-3 is good) so if you get rid of hacking, people would flips but not if you make that the new racial for scouts. This would make Amarr suits very strong. Speed hacking + bonuses + more WP from the equipment. Min would again reclaim their speed, and let's hope sprint + NK charge time happen, that will fix MIn. Cal is fine, Gal is fine. Both have unique bonuses which are strong in their own way. Given the scout bonus changed, i suggest removing cloaks bonuses (or cloaks altogether) you could give all scouts another bonus like hacking for all. Encourage objective play, encourage the advantages provided for objectives and lower the slayer role options.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1650	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:17:00 - [30] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout cant abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. I agree that plate balancing is the real problem. IMO complex plates should stay as they are, and basic/enhanced plates should follow the same scaling as shield extenders. 10 CPU and 1 PG should not = over 90 EHP. Nerdier than thou

Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:20:00 - [31] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout cant abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. I agree that plate balancing is the real problem. IMO complex plates should stay as they are, and basic/enhanced plates should follow the same scaling as shield extenders. 10 CPU and 1 PG should not = over 90 EHP. Yes, it's going to have to either way IMO. Speed or hp loss, hopefully they don't go back to the old plates shiver Basic and enhanced give too much bang for your buck. Edit:though I'd rather they nerf the speed because as it stands right now, ferroscale plates are kind of useless in comparison. Reactive a are kind of sucky, but at least you get something in return for the high CPU/PG cost. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:31:00 - [32] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1651	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:41:00 - [33] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Nerdier than thou
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:41:00 - [34] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: GalScout has a higher armour ceiling than Amarr Assault. amarr assault has a great bonus on one of the best weapons in the game and can dampen under the passive scan of the best Gal scout. Thr33 is the magic number.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2405	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:46:00 - [35] - Quote When complex armor plates aren't pure garbage and don't penalize you up then ass you should worry about Gallante scouts. At the moment the high HP is an overall problem of bad module balance. But a full complex armor plate Gallante scout is a easy target not only that but you rarely see them. Stop dumping all of this games problems on the Gallente... For the Federation!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1246	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:48:00 - [36] - Quote So "fix" tanked scouts by lowering base EHP which then encourages extender or plate stacking while punishing those of its that Erin profile dampeners and kin cats. Come on Char, you're usually smarter than that. Honestly its not tanking EHP that makes scouts the FotB, its the OP cloaks. So what if a gal scout can get 1000 EHP, so they die in half a second instead of .2 second? TTK its still pretty damn short and tanked scouts are really just dumping themselves. One of the few selling points of this game is fitting customization, people need to stop trying to box others onto their easy of "properly" fitting a suit Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:01:00 - [37] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1134	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:05:00 - [38] - Quote Gotta say bout 300-400 armour on my gal scout is the sweet mark. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2392	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:12:00 - [39] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. True but that's A) Not Brick Tanking B) Shields and most importantly C) Has more almost as much shields as my Minnie Assault has EHP. All with ridiculous repping capbility that far out performs any values the gallante could reach. Like I said I do not want to force you to play a specific way, but you should not be able to make one suit out shine another, in its intended role. Scouts currently are better assaults than assaults, just like logistics were before them. That needs to change. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1654	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:51:00 - [40] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Nerdier than thou

The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 363	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:52:00 - [41] - Quote Suits have built-in bonuses, I wouldn't mind if they also had negative equivalents. In this case, for light frames only, increase the plate speed penalty (or maybe make it amplify when stacked: 5% for 1 Cx, 12% for 2, 18% for three, etc), and perhaps make extenders increase scan profile or have reduced effectiveness per additional mod.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1247	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:09:00 - [42] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout cant abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. I agree that plate balancing is the real problem. IMO complex plates should stay as they are, and basic/enhanced plates should follow the same scaling as shield extenders. 10 CPU and 1 PG should not = over 90 EHP. Yes, it's going to have to either way IMO. Speed or hp loss, hopefully they don't go back to the old plates shiver Basic and enhanced give too much bang for your buck. Edit:though I'd rather they nerf the speed because as it stands right now, ferroscale plates are kind of useless in comparison. Reactive a are kind of sucky, but at least you get something in return for the high CPU/PG cost. Want to balance plate stacking on gal scouts? Make the armor movement penalty apply to profile dampening as well. You want to stack 4 complex plates on a gal scout, go ahead but prepared to lose 20% of your dampening bonus as well as moving stupidly slow for a scout. Then give the Amarr scout a 2 or 3% pet level bonus that mitigates armor plate penalties to profile and movement. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:23:00 - [43] - Quote I kill these brick tanking scouts with hardl any/no tanking modules. I don't care if they get nerfed or not. However, since people wants to nerf me for doing right, I say **** off. Make it to where plates and ext. have harsher penalties on light frames. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 748	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:37:00 - [44] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Cool, then explain to me how practical it is to have only 3hp/s is after losing 40-90% of 700 armor for a class with no logi support. - is it more practical than finding a logi? - is it more practical than running to a supply depot? - is it more practical than using a rep hive? Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1658	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:37:00 - [45] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Cool, then explain to me how practical it is to have only 3hp/s is after losing 40-90% of 700 armor for a class with no logi support. - is it more practical than finding a logi? - is it more practical than running to a supply depot? - is it more practical than using a rep hive? Yes, to all three. Friendly logis may be nowhere near you, or on the other side of the enemy formation. Supply depots are few and far between, and may be destroyed by tanks. Rep hives limit your fittings (no uplinks, no REs) and limit your repair ability to fixed locations, as well as broadcasting your position to the enemy. They're great to bring in addition to intrinsic reps, but I wouldn't want to rely on them entirely. My point isn't that 3hp/s is all you need for repair, but when measured against a static 30 HP boost, which is the other option for armor-tanking scouts with the exact same slot layout, 3hp/s just clearly, clearly better. Imagine this: you push to one of the outside points in Skirmish match, killing 1-2 defenders and taking 300 armor damage in the process. You hack the CRU and the point, then sprint back to the city to catch reds from behind, or sit and wait for people to attack your newly-capped point. You have at least 30 seconds between engagements, maybe as much as 60-100 if you choose to camp the point. In that time, you regain at least 90 HP (equivalent to a basic plate), possibly much more. Nerdier than thou
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4870	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:47:00 - [46] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus I see you point. But same as when logis were tanking 1000+ EHP.... This is what all of ya said: ''This is dust, the games gives you the options. Customization is the key so that you are not boxed in a single ''job''. Who said Logis HAVE to be medics?...'' Well, by that ''logi'' reasoning: WHO SAYS SCOUTS HAVE TO BE SPEEDY and have LOW HP? Me myself , i dont tank scouts. My most HP scout has 160 shields and 200 Armor. Doesnt mean that this is the way it SHOULD be. NO - NERFS - TO - SCOUTS. in any case ,we need a BUFF. Yeah, AMarr scout needsa BUFF like right now, the other 3 are fine. They work... Scouts are FINE. People are not used to fight anything strong that is not a Med frame, tahts all... Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 628	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:52:00 - [47] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus reducing base ehp only makes hp modules more effective since they produce a flat rate bonus whats more appealing a module that adds 10% more health or a module that adds 20% more health? nerfing base ehp will as a result make hp modules have a greater percentage of effect It'll help define roles, i promise:)
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 275	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:55:00 - [48] - Quote I'm fine with adding a stacking and/or speed penalty on Regular plates. However I would like it to be a least a little easier to fit ferroscale/reactive plates, I mean your already sacrificing a lot of HP why should it cost a **** ton of CPU/PG to fit?
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 88	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:57:00 - [49] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. Please tell me how this screws over a GalLogi? Because of scanners? Is that what you mean? 'hardly used' my ass. anyone who purchased the dren pack has one. The dragonfly scout BPO was offered for a long time. Not to mention the scanning bonus allows people to tank and not have to worry about precision enhancing Favoring High Latency Is A Load Of Poo
Izlare Lenix Arrogance. 367	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:58:00 - [50] - Quote The beauty of Dust if you can fit suits however the hell you want to. So deal with it. I do have a brick fit scout but I rarely use it as a more traditional scout is much more effective. For months and months we have had to deal with tripple damage, brick fit scanning logi slayers, or fat suits with RR. And we all had to adapt. Time for you to adapt to scouts and the many varieties they come in, including TANKED scouts. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.



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