DUST Search - Scout Suits and EHP

All Channels

General Discussions

Scout Suits and EHP

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 [2] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 2976	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:20:00 - [31] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout cant abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. I agree that plate balancing is the real problem. IMO complex plates should stay as they are, and basic/enhanced plates should follow the same scaling as shield extenders. 10 CPU and 1 PG should not = over 90 EHP. Yes, it's going to have to either way IMO. Speed or hp loss, hopefully they don't go back to the old plates shiver Basic and enhanced give too much bang for your buck. Edit:though I'd rather they nerf the speed because as it stands right now, ferroscale plates are kind of useless in comparison. Reactive a are kind of sucky, but at least you get something in return for the high CPU/PG cost. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:31:00 - [32] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1651	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:41:00 - [33] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Nerdier than thou
ugg reset Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:41:00 - [34] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: GalScout has a higher armour ceiling than Amarr Assault. amarr assault has a great bonus on one of the best weapons in the game and can dampen under the passive scan of the best Gal scout. Thr33 is the magic number.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2405	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:46:00 - [35] - Quote When complex armor plates aren't pure garbage and don't penalize you up then ass you should worry about Gallante scouts. At the moment the high HP is an overall problem of bad module balance. But a full complex armor plate Gallante scout is a easy target not only that but you rarely see them. Stop dumping all of this games problems on the Gallente... For the Federation!
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1246	Posted - 2014.04.06 17:48:00 - [36] - Quote So "fix" tanked scouts by lowering base EHP which then encourages extender or plate stacking while punishing those of its that Erin profile dampeners and kin cats. Come on Char, you're usually smarter than that. Honestly its not tanking EHP that makes scouts the FotB, its the OP cloaks. So what if a gal scout can get 1000 EHP, so they die in half a second instead of .2 second? TTK its still pretty damn short and tanked scouts are really just dumping themselves. One of the few selling points of this game is fitting customization, people need to stop trying to box others onto their easy of "properly" fitting a suit Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 747	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:01:00 - [37] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
noob cavman Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 1134	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:05:00 - [38] - Quote Gotta say bout 300-400 armour on my gal scout is the sweet mark. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Jollys quirky inconsistent sidekick. dem spandex yo
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2392	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:12:00 - [39] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: The thing is, we shouldn't FORCE people not to run brick-tanked, but as it stands a galscout can brick tank and still be faster than an Assault, with a lower scan profile and a cloa, whole lot of positives, no negative. But that's the thing- the super-tanky-scout issue is really limited to just the Gal scout. You would think CCP would have learned that giving 3 hp/s intrinsic rep + 4 low slots is going to be an imbalanced armor tanker after the logi fiasco, but no. My shield-bricked Ck.0 Cal scout (4x comp shield ex, 2x enh range amp) is 440/80- tanky on the scout scale, but still much less total HP than Cal Assaults, less EHP than the armor of some MLT Gal Mediums, and 5 less EHP than a all-basic-module tanked G-1 gal scout. Don't lump me in and punish me with the armor brickers. True but that's A) Not Brick Tanking B) Shields and most importantly C) Has more almost as much shields as my Minnie Assault has EHP. All with ridiculous repping capbility that far out performs any values the gallante could reach. Like I said I do not want to force you to play a specific way, but you should not be able to make one suit out shine another, in its intended role. Scouts currently are better assaults than assaults, just like logistics were before them. That needs to change. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1654	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:51:00 - [40] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Same slot layout + high base armor, don't see how the amarr has a lower ceiling. Regen. No sane scout rolls with 0 regen on their primary tank. The Gal gets a free enhanced repper, the Amarr gets none, and therefore has to sacrifice a low slot to repair. 3 hp/s for 500-700armor is just as useful as 0 regen, it's not going to keep you alive. It's a far simpler affair after taking considerable damage to lay down a rep hive or swap suits at a nearby supply depot than wading around in four plates with 3hp/s passive. I disagree completely. No, it won't heal you back up to max HP, but it's much more beneficial than the Amarr's +30 base HP. If the Gal scout can survive with damaged armor for literally 10 seconds, the built-in repper has provided more EHP than the Amarr's "superior brick tank". Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Nerdier than thou

The Eristic Sad Panda Solutions 363	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:52:00 - [41] - Quote Suits have built-in bonuses, I wouldn't mind if they also had negative equivalents. In this case, for light frames only, increase the plate speed penalty (or maybe make it amplify when stacked: 5% for 1 Cx, 12% for 2, 18% for three, etc), and perhaps make extenders increase scan profile or have reduced effectiveness per additional mod.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1247	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:09:00 - [42] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: @Awry, I agree in the bricked tank scout category that the Amarr scout got boned, and also that he should have something that sets him apart from the GalScout(maybe a bonus extenders or another scout related module) But the Gal Scout needs the built in reps to counter it's low shield regain ability. In theory, it works, till you start stacking plates. Then you get the same problem Logis had, but to say that any other scout cant abuse plates and extenders is just singling out the GalScout. Plates are a problem and they need to be balanced just for the simple fact that every suit throws a few plates on their lows with no repercussions. I agree that plate balancing is the real problem. IMO complex plates should stay as they are, and basic/enhanced plates should follow the same scaling as shield extenders. 10 CPU and 1 PG should not = over 90 EHP. Yes, it's going to have to either way IMO. Speed or hp loss, hopefully they don't go back to the old plates shiver Basic and enhanced give too much bang for your buck. Edit:though I'd rather they nerf the speed because as it stands right now, ferroscale plates are kind of useless in comparison. Reactive a are kind of sucky, but at least you get something in return for the high CPU/PG cost. Want to balance plate stacking on gal scouts? Make the armor movement penalty apply to profile dampening as well. You want to stack 4 complex plates on a gal scout, go ahead but prepared to lose 20% of your dampening bonus as well as moving stupidly slow for a scout. Then give the Amarr scout a 2 or 3% pet level bonus that mitigates armor plate penalties to profile and movement. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1967	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:23:00 - [43] - Quote I kill these brick tanking scouts with hardl any/no tanking modules. I don't care if they get nerfed or not. However, since people wants to nerf me for doing right, I say **** off. Make it to where plates and ext. have harsher penalties on light frames. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 748	Posted - 2014.04.06 19:37:00 - [44] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Cool, then explain to me how practical it is to have only 3hp/s is after losing 40-90% of 700 armor for a class with no logi support. - is it more practical than finding a logi? - is it more practical than running to a supply depot? - is it more practical than using a rep hive? Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1658	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:37:00 - [45] - Quote Asha Starwind wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Asha Starwind wrote: Let me stop you right there, my original comment is highlighting that the fallacy that the gal hp ceiling(i.e. absolute limit, since people are using that word and seem to not know what it means in that context) is higher than the amarr. Black and white, it simply isn't true and the amarr scout does not have to "sacrifice" a slot. I'm not arguing the advantages of the individual bonuses. Okay, sure, but high ceiling with no regen is a terrible fit for a class that rarely if ever has rep tool support. In terms of practical combat fittings, the Gal can stack more buffer. The absolute ceiling isn't particularly meaningful. Cool, then explain to me how practical it is to have only 3hp/s is after losing 40-90% of 700 armor for a class with no logi support. - is it more practical than finding a logi? - is it more practical than running to a supply depot? - is it more practical than using a rep hive? Yes, to all three. Friendly logis may be nowhere near you, or on the other side of the enemy formation. Supply depots are few and far between, and may be destroyed by tanks. Rep hives limit your fittings (no uplinks, no REs) and limit your repair ability to fixed locations, as well as broadcasting your position to the enemy. They're great to bring in addition to intrinsic reps, but I wouldn't want to rely on them entirely. My point isn't that 3hp/s is all you need for repair, but when measured against a static 30 HP boost, which is the other option for armor-tanking scouts with the exact same slot layout, 3hp/s just clearly, clearly better. Imagine this: you push to one of the outside points in Skirmish match, killing 1-2 defenders and taking 300 armor damage in the process. You hack the CRU and the point, then sprint back to the city to catch reds from behind, or sit and wait for people to attack your newly-capped point. You have at least 30 seconds between engagements, maybe as much as 60-100 if you choose to camp the point. In that time, you regain at least 90 HP (equivalent to a basic plate), possibly much more. Nerdier than thou
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4870	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:47:00 - [46] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus I see you point. But same as when logis were tanking 1000+ EHP.... This is what all of ya said: ''This is dust, the games gives you the options. Customization is the key so that you are not boxed in a single ''job''. Who said Logis HAVE to be medics?...'' Well, by that ''logi'' reasoning: WHO SAYS SCOUTS HAVE TO BE SPEEDY and have LOW HP? Me myself , i dont tank scouts. My most HP scout has 160 shields and 200 Armor. Doesnt mean that this is the way it SHOULD be. NO - NERFS - TO - SCOUTS. in any case ,we need a BUFF. Yeah, AMarr scout needsa BUFF like right now, the other 3 are fine. They work... Scouts are FINE. People are not used to fight anything strong that is not a Med frame, tahts all... Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 628	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:52:00 - [47] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: -Scans (range and precision enhancers) -Damps -Biotics -Cloaks These are the things that scouts should gravitate too, not damage mods (if anyone uses them anymore) and tank modules. Scout suits need to be changed so that running tank modules is far less beneficial than running traditional 'scout' modules. The Caldari and Gallente are for sure the biggest slayer-scouts because of their large fitting capacity. The best solution to this is to reduce their base HP, but also bring AM and MN scout suit PG/CPU up. Now, scout suits can still tank themselves, but it will take much more to get even close to what it used to be. Personally, a scout with over 300 EHP is a problem and CCP should discourage, not ban, this tactic. That is to say that an assault suit fit for EHP and DPS will be far more effective than a scout suit, regardless of the cloak. GA and CA scouts, as they are, should be used as a model for how assault suits should be. They are fast and have excellent regen. Perhaps changing assault suit bonuses would be the answer: (5%/lvl): CA - shield extender efficacy, GA - repper efficacy, AM - plate efficacy, MN - DMG mod efficacy Then a change to MN and AM scout bonuses: MN - kinkat and hacking bonus, AM - CarReg and stamina regen bonus reducing base ehp only makes hp modules more effective since they produce a flat rate bonus whats more appealing a module that adds 10% more health or a module that adds 20% more health? nerfing base ehp will as a result make hp modules have a greater percentage of effect It'll help define roles, i promise:)
STEALTH HUNTER ZERO D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 275	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:55:00 - [48] - Quote I'm fine with adding a stacking and/or speed penalty on Regular plates. However I would like it to be a least a little easier to fit ferroscale/reactive plates, I mean your already sacrificing a lot of HP why should it cost a **** ton of CPU/PG to fit?
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 88	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:57:00 - [49] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Increase speed penalty on plates. Raise scan range on assault suits to 14m. Lower scan precision on assault suits by 3 points. Ok, the 2nd and 3rd points have nothing to do with bricked tanked scout. Oh yes! Let's completely screw over the already hardly used Gal Logi. If I wanted to sprint at five meters a seconds I'd go into a heavy suit. Please tell me how this screws over a GalLogi? Because of scanners? Is that what you mean? 'hardly used' my ass. anyone who purchased the dren pack has one. The dragonfly scout BPO was offered for a long time. Not to mention the scanning bonus allows people to tank and not have to worry about precision enhancing Favoring High Latency Is A Load Of Poo
Izlare Lenix Arrogance. 367	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:58:00 - [50] - Quote The beauty of Dust if you can fit suits however the hell you want to. So deal with it. I do have a brick fit scout but I rarely use it as a more traditional scout is much more effective. For months and months we have had to deal with tripple damage, brick fit scanning logi slayers, or fat suits with RR. And we all had to adapt. Time for you to adapt to scouts and the many varieties they come in, including TANKED scouts. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.



Pages: 1 [2] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page