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On dropsuits and the passive scans of vehicles

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IceShifter Childhaspawn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 485	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:36:00 - [1] - Quote Passive scans do not register/detect/recognize HAV/LAV/DS any differently than dropsuits. So the onboard latent scanning equipment doesn't register the loudest, biggest moving chunks of metal at any greater distance that the fiber woven mesh which bears said equipment? Thinking its counter intuitive that I can hear a DS/HAV from 100+ meters away. But my passive scanner (which operates on sound) cannot pick them up until they are ridiculously close. CCP Logibro is awesome.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:42:00 - [2] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: But my passive scanner (which operates on sound) Source?
MINA Longstrike 2Shitz 1Giggle United Brotherhood Alliance 426	Posted - 2014.04.06 10:48:00 - [3] - Quote Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1555	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:10:00 - [4] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. its nonsense a HUGE vehicle has LESS signal footprint or presence than a much SMALLER dropsuit?? its idiotic be it magnetic or thermal or acoustic or ion field or sci fi shield strength based whatever this thirty ton vehicle can tip toe around the map but this skinny stealth based scout is much more visible ? ROTHFL Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8110	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:12:00 - [5] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. Considering the profile is measured in dB, and the precision too, I think it is. My intentions is to have a fun game for everyone. If I seem to be biased, I have good hard data to back it up.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:12:00 - [6] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. its nonsense a HUGE vehicle has LESS signal footprint or presence than a much SMALLER dropsuit?? its idiotic be it magnetic or thermal or acoustic or ion field or sci fi shield strength based whatever this thirty ton vehicle can tip toe around the map but this skinny stealth based scout is much more visible ? ROTHFL Doesn't mean a NOT-SOUND-BASED sensor would (not) hear a vehicle from further away than it (doesn't) hear a dropsuit. I agree that vehicle PROFILE should be raised, though. Unless it's already significantly higher than a Heavy suit. Which I don't know. Anyone?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4959	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:15:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. Considering the profile is measured in dB, and the precision too, I think it is. Considering the profile is measured in a not-sound-specific unit that's used to compare power and intensity of signals more often than it is to measure the volume of a sound, you think that the scanning is sound-based? That's... uhhhh... interesting reasoning. Care to explain further?
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1144	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:15:00 - [8] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: Passive scans do not register/detect/recognize HAV/LAV/DS any differently than dropsuits. So the onboard latent scanning equipment doesn't register the loudest, biggest moving chunks of metal at any greater distance that the fiber woven mesh which bears said equipment? Thinking its counter intuitive that I can hear a DS/HAV from 100+ meters away. But my passive scanner (which operates on sound) cannot pick them up until they are ridiculously close. Decibel is merely a ratio between power or quantity. It measures more than just sound. That's what you get!! - DA Rick

ChribbaX Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions 1048	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:25:00 - [9] - Quote I think it's pretty silly that a HAV can sorta sneak up on you on radar still given their massive size compared to a dropsuit... DUSTBoard DUSTSearch DUST Server Status

Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1556	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:25:00 - [10] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. its nonsense a HUGE vehicle has LESS signal footprint or presence than a much SMALLER dropsuit?? its idiotic be it magnetic or thermal or acoustic or ion field or sci fi shield strength based whatever this thirty ton vehicle can tip toe around the map but this skinny stealth based scout is much more visible ? ROTHFL Doesn't mean a NOT-SOUND-BASED sensor would (not) hear a vehicle from further away than it (doesn't) hear a dropsuit. I agree that vehicle PROFILE should be raised, though. Unless it's already significantly higher than a Heavy suit. Which I don't know. Anyone? if it were radar based: a thirty ton vehicle has a lot more metal thus larger radar image if it were heat based : a thirty ton vehicle has a lot more heat thus larger heat image if it were acoustic based: a thirty ton vehicle has a lot more sound thus larger acoustic image if it were magnetic based: a thirty ton vehicle has a lot more metal thus larger magnetic image repeat for light reflection repeat for atomic decay numbers etc in all cases larger equals easiest to detect in all cases smaller equals hardest to detect Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance

Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 550	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:28:00 - [11] - Quote Agreed just got snuck up on by a tank today. It was disgusting. "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1556	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:28:00 - [12] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: Passive scans do not register/detect/recognize HAV/LAV/DS any differently than dropsuits. So the onboard latent scanning equipment doesn't register the loudest, biggest moving chunks of metal at any greater distance that the fiber woven mesh which bears said equipment? Thinking its counter intuitive that I can hear a DS/HAV from 100+ meters away. But my passive scanner (which operates on sound) cannot pick them up until they are ridiculously close. Decibel is merely a ratio between power or quantity. It measures more than just sound. More info. More than likely the dB in game measures the electronic output of the suits and vehicles we use. This is why tanks aren't seen even though they are loud. Our suits aren't registering sound, otherwise we'd also pick up rocks falling and footsteps and shots hitting walls and all sorts of other extraneous noise. no. a thirty ton vehicle has a HUGE electronic output compared to a single dropsuit Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2611	Posted - 2014.04.06 11:53:00 - [13] - Quote When a tank gets inside your ten metre scan radius it shows up on your minimap, IIRC. If so, working as intended. Whether or not that's sensible or not is another matter entirely. (Also good to see you're still playing!) ak.0 4 LYFE je ne regrette rien
IceShifter Childhaspawn Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 487	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:18:00 - [14] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: When a tank gets inside your ten metre scan radius it shows up on your minimap, IIRC. If so, working as intended. Whether or not that's sensible or not is another matter entirely. (Also good to see you're still playing!) Im trying to be more sensitive to vehicle users when I type, and that is because of our talks back in the day. On that note, good to see you too Lorhak. Yeah, I realize that the hud doesn't show more than its supposed probably to minimize server load. It still doesn't make all that much sense that though we can hear the giant battle behemoth, our suit doesn't give us any indication until we are way too close. My assumption that the passive scans operate on sound come not from the unit of measure, but more from the annoying honk which all vehicle scanners emit. CCP Logibro is awesome.
Kindel Monix SMARTCREW Canis Eliminatus Operatives 7	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:28:00 - [15] - Quote A tank can sneak up on me now. Well just add a Cloak and lets see every one get pissed way don't you? I might as well just try to run in structures then. Shot gunned to death
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1524	Posted - 2014.04.06 16:34:00 - [16] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: Agreed just got snuck up on by a tank today. It was disgusting. Well you deserved it for not HEARING it and locating it yourself. I've been able to sneak up on countless snipers with my missile Gunnlogi, fiddle about with the terrain to setup my aim, then launch one missile to get a direct hit and kill them. Information has to be earned, not given. If you're too lazy to be conscious of your surroundings, then you have no reason to complain that vehicles are "stealthy." I even worry about my own tank's noise when I'm trying to ambush another rail tank because I can certainly hear other tanks when I'm in my own. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32 Atiim didn't agree with limiting tanks!
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1148	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:34:00 - [17] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: Passive scans do not register/detect/recognize HAV/LAV/DS any differently than dropsuits. So the onboard latent scanning equipment doesn't register the loudest, biggest moving chunks of metal at any greater distance that the fiber woven mesh which bears said equipment? Thinking its counter intuitive that I can hear a DS/HAV from 100+ meters away. But my passive scanner (which operates on sound) cannot pick them up until they are ridiculously close. Decibel is merely a ratio between power or quantity. It measures more than just sound. More info. More than likely the dB in game measures the electronic output of the suits and vehicles we use. This is why tanks aren't seen even though they are loud. Our suits aren't registering sound, otherwise we'd also pick up rocks falling and footsteps and shots hitting walls and all sorts of other extraneous noise. no. a thirty ton vehicle has a HUGE electronic output compared to a single dropsuit And suits detect things out to 10m. So within 10m, a tank light up like a Christmas tree. Doesn't matter how big the profile is. If the suit scan only reaches 10m, it will only show up within 10m. Period. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 357	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:08:00 - [18] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. its nonsense a HUGE vehicle has LESS signal footprint or presence than a much SMALLER dropsuit?? its idiotic be it magnetic or thermal or acoustic or ion field or sci fi shield strength based whatever this thirty ton vehicle can tip toe around the map but this skinny stealth based scout is much more visible ? ROTHFL Doesn't mean a NOT-SOUND-BASED sensor would (not) hear a vehicle from further away than it (doesn't) hear a dropsuit. I agree that vehicle PROFILE should be raised, though. Unless it's already significantly higher than a Heavy suit. Which I don't know. Anyone? HAV profile is 200 dB. The issue is not that tanks are low profile, it's that passive scans are utter garbage. Closed Beta Vet since May, 2012 TEST Alliance Best Alliance Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1321	Posted - 2014.04.06 20:19:00 - [19] - Quote I don't know how exactly, but decibels (dB) aren't used only to describe the intensity of sound. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel Me in my ADS: 1,2
Jackof All-Trades The Black Renaissance 552	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:11:00 - [20] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Agreed just got snuck up on by a tank today. It was disgusting. Well you deserved it for not HEARING it and locating it yourself. I've been able to sneak up on countless snipers with my missile Gunnlogi, fiddle about with the terrain to setup my aim, then launch one missile to get a direct hit and kill them. Information has to be earned, not given. If you're too lazy to be conscious of your surroundings, then you have no reason to complain that vehicles are "stealthy." I even worry about my own tank's noise when I'm trying to ambush another rail tank because I can certainly hear other tanks when I'm in my own. Speed scout, runs up to a tank to plant remotes. Instantly dies because another tank rolls up behind me. Riiight... "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 1168	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:14:00 - [21] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Cat Merc wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. Considering the profile is measured in dB, and the precision too, I think it is. Considering the profile is measured in a not-sound-specific unit that's used to compare power and intensity of signals more often than it is to measure the volume of a sound, you think that the scanning is sound-based? That's... uhhhh... interesting reasoning. Care to explain further? first of all, please list all other forces that are measured in dB please. It may help you find the reasoning behind this hypothetical statement. Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 89	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:15:00 - [22] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. Db decibels are a measure of sound. Scan profile is measured in db Favoring High Latency Is A Load Of Poo
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 349	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:24:00 - [23] - Quote Wow, read the whole thread first, this has already been explained. 5 second search to find the wiki page describing everything you ever wanted to know about the decibel. The decibel is used for a wide variety of measurements in science and engineering, most prominently in acoustics, electronics, and control theory. Doesn't have to be sound based. Pretty sure it isn't in DUST. More likely electronic signal measurement. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1659	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:24:00 - [24] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: Passive scanning is not necessarily sound based. Considering the profile is measured in dB, and the precision too, I think it is. Definition of dB: "a unit used to measure the intensity of a sound or the power level of an electrical signal by comparing it with a given level on a logarithmic scale." Nerdier than thou
Dergle PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 5	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:26:00 - [25] - Quote You can hear a tank farther out than your passive scans will ever pick up. Learn the game and you'll notice every little thing makes a noise, it's just a matter of listening for it. Harpyja wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Agreed just got snuck up on by a tank today. It was disgusting. Well you deserved it for not HEARING it and locating it yourself. I've been able to sneak up on countless snipers with my missile Gunnlogi, fiddle about with the terrain to setup my aim, then launch one missile to get a direct hit and kill them. Information has to be earned, not given. If you're too lazy to be conscious of your surroundings, then you have no reason to complain that vehicles are "stealthy." I even worry about my own tank's noise when I'm trying to ambush another rail tank because I can certainly hear other tanks when I'm in my own. /thread If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck!
Awry Barux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1659	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:32:00 - [26] - Quote Dergle wrote: You can hear a tank farther out than your passive scans will ever pick up. Learn the game and you'll notice every little thing makes a noise, it's just a matter of listening for it. Harpyja wrote: Jackof All-Trades wrote: Agreed just got snuck up on by a tank today. It was disgusting. Well you deserved it for not HEARING it and locating it yourself. I've been able to sneak up on countless snipers with my missile Gunnlogi, fiddle about with the terrain to setup my aim, then launch one missile to get a direct hit and kill them. Information has to be earned, not given. If you're too lazy to be conscious of your surroundings, then you have no reason to complain that vehicles are "stealthy." I even worry about my own tank's noise when I'm trying to ambush another rail tank because I can certainly hear other tanks when I'm in my own. /thread They do have a point, though, from a lore perspective- if our suit passive scanners are good enough to pick up other suits' energy signatures at short range, the energy signature of a heavy weapons platform with an active turret and heavy shielding should, lore-wise, be detectable from across the map. Nerdier than thou
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 1042	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:37:00 - [27] - Quote HAV's do need to show up on passive scanners. The fact that I can sneak up on infantry and preform a colonoscopy with my turret before they realize I am there is an issue. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 879	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:41:00 - [28] - Quote I recall there being some bug where vehicles wouldn't show up. Was that ever fixed? Even in my scout suit with passives maxed they don't show up till I am right on top of them. 1.8 better then 1.7 but not by much. Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Dergle PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 5	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:45:00 - [29] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: HAV's do need to show up on passive scanners. The fact that I can sneak up on infantry and preform a colonoscopy with my turret before they realize I am there is an issue. It's the persons on the other end of your turrets issue. Situational awareness people If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck!
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Lokun Listamenn 1151	Posted - 2014.04.06 22:39:00 - [30] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: HAV's do need to show up on passive scanners. The fact that I can sneak up on infantry and preform a colonoscopy with my turret before they realize I am there is an issue. Situational awareness does wonders for preventing that. However, you do have a point. Something so loud (electronically speaking) should show up farther out. We need a change to passive scans. Perhaps have passive scan range be infinite, and have things detected based on their proximity to you. For instan e, a tank with 200dB would show up at 200m away. A stealthy scout with a profile of 25dB would only show up at 10m away. Range extenders increase the range at which things are spotted (a 50% range extender has tanks show up at 300m and scouts at 15m) while enhancers help things show up at all in the first place (if there profile is smaller than your precision, they will never show up passively) That's what you get!! - DA Rick



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