Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Running ina scout with -400HP is never Easy mode.

Me Myself dual wield SMG's because i dedicate myself to hunting down scouts...

440 shields on 3/4 second recharge delay at 50 hp/s with a cloak and 8m/s sprint = yes, easy mode, as long as you're not a complete idiot and know when to disengage.

While I'm not sure I'd use the word idiot, that last part is certainly key.

Try it with aim assist off. 80% of your shots do not register, even on stationary targets.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Right, because things are balanced around having aim-assist off. Puh-lease, it's a console shooter, AA is part and parcel of literally 100% of controller FPS games.

Going to stop you right there.


No. It isn't. You need to stay far enough away from enemies to avoid being seen (YES, YOU CAN SEE A CLOAKED PLAYER MOVING) while also getting in close enough to use your Shotgun.

What's ACTUALLY trivial is countering a cloaked Scout who's relying on their "crutch" (cloak) to let them move in close. They trust in their partial invisibility, and a competent and alert player WILL see them moving, and if you don't kill them immediately, you know where they are and where they're going. Watch for the flanking approach, and watch as it fails miserably because you saw them coming.

If you use as , you're bad and should feel bad

Going to have to disagree completely. What you're saying may be true in PC or whatever, but do you know what percentage of pub players are "competent and alert"? In my estimation it's <10%.

As long as you follow pre-1.8 flanking strategies/routes, the cloak will increase your flanking success rate to upwards of 90%. If you didn't know how to flank before, the cloak won't save you, but if you were already flanking before 1.8, it's just too easy. The vast majority of my deaths now come from over-estimating how many reds I can successfully ambush in group, as opposed to getting picked off by that one red who happened to look behind the blob.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Mate the shotgun in this game is a total joke. Have you ever used a shotgun in like any other FPS game ever? The lack of range with shotguns in this game is lol worthy. If you let a shotgunner get within 4 or 5 meters of you, you deserve to be shot down.

The title is presently held by Tankers.
The title was previously held by Gal Logi + Fine Rifle.
The Gal Logi was preceded by Cal Logi + Fine Rifle, of course.

The title will never be held by a class which weighs in at an average of 400 HP.
Good effort, but no dice. Too many things can instagib a Scout.

The title is presently held by Tankers.
The title was previously held by Gal Logi + Fine Rifle.
The Gal Logi was preceded by Cal Logi + Fine Rifle, of course.

The title will never be held by a class which weighs in at an average of 400 HP.
Good effort, but no dice. Too many things can instagib a Scout.

Mate the shotgun in this game is a total joke. Have you ever used a shotgun in like any other FPS game ever? The lack of range with shotguns in this game is lol worthy. If you let a shotgunner get within 4 or 5 meters of you, you deserve to be shot down.

That doesn't mean the cloak is OP, or that Shotguns are OP. It means that competence and alertness are OP. If you're a Shotgun Scout and not competent or alert, you'll be dead before you start.


As long as you follow pre-1.8 flanking strategies and routes, YOU DON'T NEED A CLOAK ANYWAY.

If you didn't know how to flank before, the cloak won't save you.

If you were flanking before 1.8, you're good and the guy you killed deserved to die because they are bad.

The vast majority of your deaths come from you overestimating your own abilities. The times where you die because someone turned around or was actively aware of the threat of a cloaked Scout may be rare, but they're also the times where you DESERVE to die.

People need to learn that cloaking is in the game, and that it's really, really, REALLY easy to counter if you're actually paying attention to what you're doing. Cloaking should not be balanced around the current state of pub matches, because the new players WILL learn to look for cloaks, just like skilled players - whether in PC or not - already have.

Shotguns are only OP against bad players who are slow to adapt, or new players who haven't had time to do so yet.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Following your logic it's not the shotgun (nothing changed from 1.7 to 1.8 as i know) but the cloak you should refer to.
So what is it now? Scouts with shotguns but without cloaks are balanced, but when using a cloak it's ez-mode? Or scouts + shotgun in general = OP?

Right, so when we're fighting other people, we're also supposed to be scanning around and watching for scouts. You let me know how you got that double monitor and split attention rig working. Even looking around, you often can't see them before they're in range, and if they are in range, you die. It isn't learning to look for them, it's the brokenness of having 2 proto scouts decimate an entire team because you can't do anything else.

It would be fine if once you found them, you could fight them, but it's basically instant death if you're in a non heavy suit, and a 2 second one in anything sub proto-heavy.

Chopping it up to player skill is just asinine. I've caught a few, but that doesn't negate the people going 40/0 in a single match because you can't fight the tactic. The new best tactic is to pull a Team Fortress 2, and just spin around firing constantly to see if you hit someone.

Shotgun is worse than 1.7 as rof took a hit. But paired with the cloak your firsr shotgun blast counts as a freebie and the second shot being the one you turn visible.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

So I skilled into a proto cal scout last night and paired it with a proto cloak....

This has set a new high, in my eyes, in terms of OPness in Dust.

I was doing just ridiculous things. Frankly unfair, gamebreaking things. People were simply clueless to my presence, and I was allowed to dip in and out of combat. I could run around, uncloak, kill someone (or two, or three), and recloak before they knew what was going on -- and that was using an ARR and not the better suited shotgun or CR. Flanking was even easier and less risky. Someone got the jump on me? Simply use my speed to hit cover, or even just quickly activate the cloak, strafe back and forth, and escape. As someone before me said, the times I died it was generally because I just tried to bite off more than I could chew or a heavy catches me with the slowdown bullet effect. Ezmode doesn't even begin to describe it -- and I haven't even used the shotgun or remote explosives yet.

No wonder I was so frustrated before in my logi and assault suits!

While it remains to be seen (by me at least) how this will play out at a competitive level, I cannot see how the cloaked scout situation will be allowed to continue without some balancing.

To those of you so vocally arguing against that -- shame on you.

"Can" but honestly scouts are OP if you pick your battles.

The SG is much too powerful for it's own good. particularly at militia and basic level, but the advanced, and even proto do so much alpha it's game breakingly good.

The fact that you can alpha almost any proto medium suit off the field with two or less shots at militia level is ridiculous. Heavies are different. you should probably have at least an advanced shotty to kill a proto heavy in a few shots.

I don't want shotguns nerfed into uselessness. but I just don't see how to balance it in this game, especially since ISK grows on trees for half the people who play this game regularly. Maybe decrease the projectile count, as my friend Laz suggested? the biggest issue is risk vs. reward. You can run shotgun cloak for nearly free, and kill any suit in the game 1v1. Even if you lose, you are still coming out ahead, as you've undoubtedly dealt crippling damage, and the guy lost his suit anyway.

If you're not rich, why risk running you best suits when they can be taken by some guy using militia/basic gear? Very low risk (ISK wise), Super high reward potential, vs. Very high risk, Very high reward potential with proto any other suit/weapon combo. You don't have to take a risk to run scout anymore. THAT is what bothers me. You can tank a cloaky scout to have over 600 EHP, granted that ups the ISK efficiency risk, but it also makes you even MORE powerful, which is like putting wheels on an aircraft carrier.

Truthfully, the shotgun probably only needs a slight tweak or two to get it into balance with other weapons DPS range. I'd say, if it were at all possible, Drop the damage dramatically.. (like within the range of AR's DPS), but give it a sort of webbifying effect, where each hit slows the target. Gallente are E-War, just as caldari... or maybe even moreso. So it would make sense that their weapons might have some crazy e-war effects. that way you wouldn't have the crazy alpha, but you'd be able to take more shots, with slightly more risks, but not easy mode.

The cloak needs to be urgently fixed first though IMO.

Totally is easy mode. 440 shields on 3/4 second recharge delay at 50 hp/s with a cloak and 8m/s sprint = yes, easy mode, as long as you're not a complete idiot and know when to disengage.

Truthfully, the shotgun probably only needs a slight tweak or two to get it into balance with other weapons DPS range. I'd say, if it were at all possible, Drop the damage dramatically.. (like within the range of AR's DPS)

Well... I mean, yeah. Duh. When you're hunting mediums/heavies, there's no need for precision enhancers, and damage mods are all but worthless in comparison to extenders, so of course I stack shields. It's a combat suit- of course I'm going to tank it. EHP wins fights. Heavy shield tank leaves the lows free for range amps, giving me ~50m of scan radius. It's important to strike a balance between ewar and good old regular war.

Who da hell needs shottys when you have a toxin SMG?!?!

That doesn't mean the cloak is OP, or that Shotguns are OP. It means that competence and alertness are OP. If you're a Shotgun Scout and not competent or alert, you'll be dead before you start.


As long as you follow pre-1.8 flanking strategies and routes, YOU DON'T NEED A CLOAK ANYWAY.

If you didn't know how to flank before, the cloak won't save you.

If you were flanking before 1.8, you're good and the guy you killed deserved to die because they are bad.

The vast majority of your deaths come from you overestimating your own abilities. The times where you die because someone turned around or was actively aware of the threat of a cloaked Scout may be rare, but they're also the times where you DESERVE to die.

People need to learn that cloaking is in the game, and that it's really, really, REALLY easy to counter if you're actually paying attention to what you're doing. Cloaking should not be balanced around the current state of pub matches, because the new players WILL learn to look for cloaks, just like skilled players - whether in PC or not - already have.

Shotguns are only OP against bad players who are slow to adapt, or new players who haven't had time to do so yet.

No. It's built into the game and turned on by default, at a dev-determined level of strength. The idea that I should turn it off out of some sort of internet honor is truly hilarious. Your injunction to feel bad is ineffective.

I would use the word idiot (obviously). Shields low? Multiple enemies nearby and not much cover to kite them around? Time to disengage. Seems patently obvious to me. Just as in EVE, running from a fight you cannot win = a victory.

"Can" but honestly scouts are OP if you pick your battles.

Well... I mean, yeah. Duh. When you're hunting mediums/heavies, there's no need for precision enhancers, and damage mods are all but worthless in comparison to extenders, so of course I stack shields. It's a combat suit- of course I'm going to tank it. EHP wins fights. Heavy shield tank leaves the lows free for range amps, giving me ~50m of scan radius. It's important to strike a balance between ewar and good old regular war.

Lol. You make it sound like there's hardly anywhere that a scout with a shotty/cloak. There are many variables that makes it difficult to "eye" every possible flanking position. A cloaked scout only needs to see where you are, and if he's good he can easily close the distance gap without being seen. Once that gap is closed, all it takes is two shots and you're dead. The odds are always in the favor of the scout. The shotgun is too powerful for the easy time it takes to close the gap. Worse are heavies. With barely the speed, they're the best target. Scouts can jump 5 feet high. Which makes them hard targets when engaging even face to face. But when you can't see them as easily, it's worse.

I have no problem with cloak as they are. I have more issues with how powerful shotguns are and have always been. Only many have not really noticed due to all the rifle rage. But I've seen players go 40/2 with a shotgun with speed mods and no one could take them out. And by the way, they weren't hiding. They killed almost everyone with one hit, and dropped hard targets with two. These balances and op topics aren't based on scrub players. It's the good players. Only the scrubs learn from this and copy.

Actually Ewar is pretty OP now, and if you tank your scout, you're doing it wrong. Tanky Scouts = another guy with a red triangle on his head when cloaked.

Y not run that toxin and a militia shotgun bpo....like me.....on my dragonfly scout...with a cloak

I can die 30 times a match and still make profit

The title is presently held by Tankers.
The title was previously held by Gal Logi + Fine Rifle.
The Gal Logi was preceded by Cal Logi + Fine Rifle, of course.

The title will never be held by a class which weighs in at an average of 400 HP.
Good effort, but no dice. Too many things can instagib a Scout.

Totally is easy mode. 440 shields on 3/4 second recharge delay at 50 hp/s with a cloak and 8m/s sprint = yes, easy mode, as long as you're not a complete idiot and know when to disengage.

ive tried every possible suit and none of them can get a 3/4 second charge delay

Sorry, I should have been clearer- I meant 3/4 in the same way that the Min Commando's delay is 6/10- 6 seconds non-depleted, 10 seconds depleted. Cal scout is 3 seconds non-depleted, 4 seconds depleted.

Regen > brick tank. After 3 engage/disengage cycles my scout has tanked more damage than most heavies can take, and that's without counting all the DPS avoided by fast strafing + small hitbox.



Did you read the words I wrote?
1. IDGAF about other FPSes. Their shotguns don't shoot plasma.
2. Yes, the range is "lol worthy"- that's what balances the high alpha. The cloak has thrown this balance off by allowing scouts too much freedom to dictate range.

Lmao what scouts are you registering over there all I see is HP stacked scouts, just like the HP stacked logis before. For the record screw high ttk arcade shooter crap.

No. It's built into the game and turned on by default, at a dev-determined level of strength. The idea that I should turn it off out of some sort of internet honor is truly hilarious. Your injunction to feel bad is ineffective.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

RE: Aim-Assist aka Auto-Aim



The exact same point could be used against all this cloak butthurt. LOL

No. Cloak is built into the game at a dev-determined level of strength. The idea that I shouldn't use it out of some sort of internet honor is truly hilarious. Your injunction to feel bad is ineffective.

Or...

No. Keyboard/mouse support is built into the game and turned on by default, at a dev-determined level of strength. The idea that I shouldn't use it out of some sort of console controller honor is truly hilarious. Your injunction to feel bad is ineffective.

That's the great thing about that point.

Anyway, I never suggested that anyone not use anything- there's no such thing as internet video game honor. I just said some things are easier than others.