Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Running ina scout with -400HP is never Easy mode.

Me Myself dual wield SMG's because i dedicate myself to hunting down scouts...

440 shields on 3/4 second recharge delay at 50 hp/s with a cloak and 8m/s sprint = yes, easy mode, as long as you're not a complete idiot and know when to disengage.

While I'm not sure I'd use the word idiot, that last part is certainly key.

Try it with aim assist off. 80% of your shots do not register, even on stationary targets.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Right, because things are balanced around having aim-assist off. Puh-lease, it's a console shooter, AA is part and parcel of literally 100% of controller FPS games.

Going to stop you right there.


No. It isn't. You need to stay far enough away from enemies to avoid being seen (YES, YOU CAN SEE A CLOAKED PLAYER MOVING) while also getting in close enough to use your Shotgun.

What's ACTUALLY trivial is countering a cloaked Scout who's relying on their "crutch" (cloak) to let them move in close. They trust in their partial invisibility, and a competent and alert player WILL see them moving, and if you don't kill them immediately, you know where they are and where they're going. Watch for the flanking approach, and watch as it fails miserably because you saw them coming.

If you use as , you're bad and should feel bad

Going to have to disagree completely. What you're saying may be true in PC or whatever, but do you know what percentage of pub players are "competent and alert"? In my estimation it's <10%.

As long as you follow pre-1.8 flanking strategies/routes, the cloak will increase your flanking success rate to upwards of 90%. If you didn't know how to flank before, the cloak won't save you, but if you were already flanking before 1.8, it's just too easy. The vast majority of my deaths now come from over-estimating how many reds I can successfully ambush in group, as opposed to getting picked off by that one red who happened to look behind the blob.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Mate the shotgun in this game is a total joke. Have you ever used a shotgun in like any other FPS game ever? The lack of range with shotguns in this game is lol worthy. If you let a shotgunner get within 4 or 5 meters of you, you deserve to be shot down.

The title is presently held by Tankers.
The title was previously held by Gal Logi + Fine Rifle.
The Gal Logi was preceded by Cal Logi + Fine Rifle, of course.

The title will never be held by a class which weighs in at an average of 400 HP.
Good effort, but no dice. Too many things can instagib a Scout.

The title is presently held by Tankers.
The title was previously held by Gal Logi + Fine Rifle.
The Gal Logi was preceded by Cal Logi + Fine Rifle, of course.

The title will never be held by a class which weighs in at an average of 400 HP.
Good effort, but no dice. Too many things can instagib a Scout.

Mate the shotgun in this game is a total joke. Have you ever used a shotgun in like any other FPS game ever? The lack of range with shotguns in this game is lol worthy. If you let a shotgunner get within 4 or 5 meters of you, you deserve to be shot down.

That doesn't mean the cloak is OP, or that Shotguns are OP. It means that competence and alertness are OP. If you're a Shotgun Scout and not competent or alert, you'll be dead before you start.


As long as you follow pre-1.8 flanking strategies and routes, YOU DON'T NEED A CLOAK ANYWAY.

If you didn't know how to flank before, the cloak won't save you.

If you were flanking before 1.8, you're good and the guy you killed deserved to die because they are bad.

The vast majority of your deaths come from you overestimating your own abilities. The times where you die because someone turned around or was actively aware of the threat of a cloaked Scout may be rare, but they're also the times where you DESERVE to die.

People need to learn that cloaking is in the game, and that it's really, really, REALLY easy to counter if you're actually paying attention to what you're doing. Cloaking should not be balanced around the current state of pub matches, because the new players WILL learn to look for cloaks, just like skilled players - whether in PC or not - already have.

Shotguns are only OP against bad players who are slow to adapt, or new players who haven't had time to do so yet.

Seriously ^. Scouts are well-balanced if you're not using the easy mode gun. The shotgun has always been balanced around the insanely low optimal. Now that it's trivial to get in to that range, it's just too easy. Double sidearms all day for the win.

That is all.

Following your logic it's not the shotgun (nothing changed from 1.7 to 1.8 as i know) but the cloak you should refer to.
So what is it now? Scouts with shotguns but without cloaks are balanced, but when using a cloak it's ez-mode? Or scouts + shotgun in general = OP?

Right, so when we're fighting other people, we're also supposed to be scanning around and watching for scouts. You let me know how you got that double monitor and split attention rig working. Even looking around, you often can't see them before they're in range, and if they are in range, you die. It isn't learning to look for them, it's the brokenness of having 2 proto scouts decimate an entire team because you can't do anything else.

It would be fine if once you found them, you could fight them, but it's basically instant death if you're in a non heavy suit, and a 2 second one in anything sub proto-heavy.

Chopping it up to player skill is just asinine. I've caught a few, but that doesn't negate the people going 40/0 in a single match because you can't fight the tactic. The new best tactic is to pull a Team Fortress 2, and just spin around firing constantly to see if you hit someone.

Shotgun is worse than 1.7 as rof took a hit. But paired with the cloak your firsr shotgun blast counts as a freebie and the second shot being the one you turn visible.