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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2301
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2301
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
They don't need to nerf HP modules they need to buff others.
Like a Std Cardiac Regulator giving a 100% stamina increase and 20% stamina recharge
Like an Energizer or Recharger DRASTICALLY improving sheild regen
Then they need to add more non EHP modules like
Kinetic Recycler: gives speed bonus longer user travels within a 2-¦ turning circle
Off-Hand Ammo Pack: Increases Spare Ammo Capacity
Reinforced Exoskeleton: Reduce Fall Damage
That Kinda thing.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
964
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:46:00 -
[63] - Quote
Princess Abi-Hime wrote::( my proto cal scout already only gets about 420ehp with my lows all complex dampeners and 1 high used for precision enhancers. Y u do dis?
I would argue that 420 hp is not bad for a cloaked suit and you pointed out the weakness - while having still SOME reasonable hp while cloaked you get to run powerful eWar modules. This is just too much. Too many things in one packages - like the old logis. When you get to have everything you want on a suit w/o having to compromise, you have an OP set up.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
964
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Wait...new stealth play style? I've been stealthy wayyyyy before cloaks.
Again this is awesome... Wait, let me start a separate thread about how awesome you've always been.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
964
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:The Eristic wrote:The base HP is low enough, just add penalties for stacking HP mods on lights. Shield penalty: longer shield recharge delay Armor penalty for most plates: movement speed penalty Penalties are already in place.
Obviously they are not enough as ppl successfully run massive hp fast gal scouts.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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J0LLY R0G3R
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
674
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nope, try another thread tomorrow. XD
++++Gimme Back my SG RoF++++
XD Indeed, chase me friend XD
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:52:00 -
[67] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:My most commonly used fit is a G-Scout with a codebreaker, dampener, and precision mod in the lows. An extender and a range amp in the highs.
Most real scouts actually like to use there fits like they are meant to be used and so a nurf to the scouts' HP wouldn't really be beneficial for balance.
I suppose you could turn the plates to a % boost so that the mid and heavy frames receive more HP then lights. Problem is that this could end up nurfing the mids even more or making the heavies OP if done incorrectly.
you have a mistake there as to what goes where in the loadout but I see your point. I don't agree with it though. If you nerfed ability to stack high HP you would actually weed out FOTM crowd who run scouts now as fast stealth assaults; folks who use tactics and eWar will stay where they are.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:Min Scout here
If I don't add some protection I have only 125 shields max - What the hell do you expect me do to do without the ability to add more health? Lol sneak up on ppl with knives, it does not take any health. With stealth mod you simply don't get shot at.  I can't imagine you knife. It simply doesn't work as a viable tactic. I am a stealthy player and an average knifer and its pathetic trying to knife in this game without having major advantages and a lot of luck. Not saying its not possible to primary knives but its very niche and the mechanics are incredibly frustrating. So its not unreasonable to allow for other methods of combat. Also, with cal scouts around knifing is next to impossible as we have to pull out our range amps for damps and loose all situational awareness Edit: Also, invisible Gëá immunity to bullets. were not even invisible
It's possible man. It's a skill you gotta develop. If you put time and experimentation into it you'll see the truth of it. If you are not running knives I don't see why run minja at all. I am not saying you can do well with knives in ambush where it's all about blobbing but on maps where red dots spread out some you can do really well.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 02:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Brick tanking isn't a scout centric problem. It's an overall problem in the game.
Logis brick tank.
Scouts brick tank.
Assaults brick tank.
Heavies brick tank.
Everybody brick tanks because it's easy. It's not the suit. Maybe we should consider the fact that armor plates add so much health and require so little resources. The penalties for dual tanking are slim to none so everybody is going to brick tank.
The problem though is that a brick tanked scout comes close in hp to a medium frame but has the advantage of a cloak. This is game breaking in the sense that it makes no sense anymore to run medium frames/ assaults - last week they were FOTM of 1.5 years, now ppl shy away from them.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:01:00 -
[70] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:CCP went too far and gave scouts too many advantages. I am a scout and I like the new stealth play style but the ability to brick tank scouts and cloak at the same time hurts the game balance badly. Keep the stealth, cut down ability to brick tank. Scouts are useful now. Get over it.
Scouts are OP now, get over it.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Canari Elphus
Dirt Nap Squad.
1302
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Posted - 2014.03.30 03:02:00 -
[71] - Quote
So basically this is another hipster scout thread then. Ive seen little discussion and a lot of complaining and finger pointing.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:03:00 -
[72] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Michael Arck wrote:So the same guy who ranted on and on about how Dust sucked, making multiple threads trying to convince people that Planetside 2 is the future, now makes a thread wanting CCP to nerf scout HP?
Hilarious. You know what else is hilarious: ppl talking out of their S. I don't even know what PS2 is - never played it. lol stop lying. This is your alt character. Your primary got banned and you went on a tirade, opening up multiple threads saying Dust will die and that you were moving on to PS2. You put on quite a dramatic show.
lol yeah? And you robbed a bank and hid the money in your mom's basement. Don't try to deny it.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
SPACE SYPHILIS wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:CCP went too far and gave scouts too many advantages. I am a scout and I like the new stealth play style but the ability to brick tank scouts and cloak at the same time hurts the game balance badly. Keep the stealth, cut down ability to brick tank. I can agree somewhat. I am heavy first but I also have a proto scout and yes I can run a scout very well just do not like the squishy feel. So anyways the problem is the cloak needs a charge time and a deplete time is all. You cloak and then you only have so long to use it, once it is used there is a cool down before use no matter how long you use it, once used it has a mandatory cool down. That should solve the issue of abuse.
That's an opinion that I can share. I do like the converse tho a lot more. Let scouts keep their stealth - if for no other reason, to keep the game fun but nerf HP as it really turns a scout into an assault.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
965
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 03:10:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:You might want to change that thread title a little.... my Minja almost sent you to hell.  Same here. I have 357 eHP at Proto, is that low enough for you!?!? Yeah, we prolly should all talk about you instead!?!? Cuz that's a much more interesting topic to everyone. Why whatever do you mean
What I mean is that I did not start this thread to talk about what fit your personally use. When you say that you run a naked proto with 180 eHP it does not prove anything, except for one thing that you personally don't stack hp. I have no interest in talking about what you do or not. I wanted to talk about the problem in the game: that it's possible to stack a lot of hp on a cloaked suit.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Yan Darn
Science For Death
451
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 05:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums.
On your first point, I'm sorry, that is a terrible idea. Slots aren't just used for tanking - precision enchancers, range amps, dampeners, kin cats, regs, code breakers. You say 'even one slot' will make the difference as if we got more than one mod slot...
Brick tanking is a problem with the modules not the the number of slots.
The question is why are people brick tanking a speed/stealth/ewar suit , instead of an assault suit...
Your second point makes far more sense to me.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
1180
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:Zahle Undt wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:If IWS's post on cloaks is any indication the Devs are trying to separate the two. They have no intention of removing Light Assaults from the game. Sandbox Solutions for the the win. Forgive my ignorance, as I probably should know this, but do armor plates affect your scan profile? No sir, just a movement penalty if the vanilla plates. If you want a great resource this Wiki is excellent. Currently they are still updating to Uprising 1.8
Adding a heavy penalty that corresponds to its movement penalty would help with the super tanked scouts and then if they just want to use the suit to be a worse assault feel free.
I was also mistaken about being not being able to tank 3 enhanced plates, 2 complex shields, and 1 enhanced rep and not have a cloak >.> oooops
My tanked proto scout gets around 750 ehp and does have an advanced cloak. I've just never used it because tanking with a cloaked scout is gimping yourself IMO. Speed kills with a proper scout not HP
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
1180
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:24:00 -
[77] - Quote
Those are all pretty bad fits actually. Maybe the gallente and caldari are "viable" but if you want to spend proto ISk for slow scout with a standard cloak and standard weapons (I assume) please do. You'll be vastly more ineffective than a scout fitted like a scout.
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
4868
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 06:27:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ha!
No.
Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
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Kira Takizawa
uptown456
Proficiency V.
185
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 07:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:Min Scout here
If I don't add some protection I have only 125 shields max - What the hell do you expect me do to do without the ability to add more health?
Shield tank or Speed tank (It works a bit better now)
Story of the Merc
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Kira Takizawa
uptown456
Proficiency V.
185
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 07:57:00 -
[80] - Quote
knight guard fury wrote:why in the world do you want scout to become thiner than paper, my min scout rarely has tank and i speed and E-war tank so i dont stack hp at all
If that is true what the OP is talking about won't effect you
Story of the Merc
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Kira Takizawa
uptown456
Proficiency V.
185
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Posted - 2014.03.30 08:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:You might want to change that thread title a little.... my Minja almost sent you to hell. Same here. I have 357 eHP at Proto, is that low enough for you!?!?
Yes xD
Story of the Merc
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
R 0 N 1 N
336
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Posted - 2014.03.30 08:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
Kira Takizawa wrote:knight guard fury wrote:why in the world do you want scout to become thiner than paper, my min scout rarely has tank and i speed and E-war tank so i dont stack hp at all If that is true what the OP is talking about won't effect you
I had to re-read the OP when you said that, due to the thread title not being as specific as the OP.
Nerf brick tanking...seems easy enough to do by applying penalties to the slots. Take a 3H 2L suit, and pretend for a moment each high and low slot is numbered starting at 1.
Combine each HP boost received on each set of slots, and nerf it if the two slots both have an HP boost.
Something like:
H1: +66 HP
H2: +66 HP
H3: +66 HP
L1: +135 HP
L2: +135 HP
H1 + L1 = 201 <-------- nerf this by a percentage because both slots have HP boost
H2 + L2 = 201 <-------- nerf this by a percentage because both slots have HP boost
H3 + n/a = 66 <-------- nothing to see here
Mother of god, I didn't realise complex plates were base 135 HP. Personally, I never fit full plates to a scout, but am currently playing around with Ferroscales. Because scout :-o
I realise this thread wasn't about how to fix it, but I felt this might promote thinking on how not to break "valid" suit fits (scout or anything else for that matter) |
tander09
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
65
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Posted - 2014.03.30 09:03:00 -
[83] - Quote
how about we nerf the shotty and gallente scout first...
Touch my BPO Gear, and you shall perish in the thrusters of a AMARR TITAN!!!!!!!
AMARRIAN4LYFE!
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DEZKA DIABLO
Inner.Hell
553
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:CCP went too far and gave scouts too many advantages. I am a scout and I like the new stealth play style but the ability to brick tank scouts and cloak at the same time hurts the game balance badly. Keep the stealth, cut down ability to brick tank.
I run 2 percision enh, two speed mods, two dampeners, 87 shields/ 167 armor, are your for fakkin real dude?
Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
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DEZKA DIABLO
Inner.Hell
553
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:42:00 -
[85] - Quote
tander09 wrote:how about we nerf the shotty and gallente scout first...
It was NERFED , do you even patch note bro!?
Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
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DEZKA DIABLO
Inner.Hell
553
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Posted - 2014.03.30 09:50:00 -
[86] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums.
Scouts were screwed for 9 months leave them cuz assaults need a buff, a amar scout with one plate has almost 350 armor, and don't take the slots cuz then scouts can't see scouts, REAL SCOUTS don't run 800 HP most of em anyway, it's the new scouts that are the problem, make a better medium problem solved
Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
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noob cavman
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
1024
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Posted - 2014.03.30 09:51:00 -
[87] - Quote
Yess because stacking 4 complex plates on my gal is such a good idea
scouts aren't the problem but brick tanking is in general.
I want to be a caveman!
Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK
Gö+GöüGö+ n+¦pâ+(`-ö´)n+ën+¦ Gö+GöüGö+
We are the blue waffle!
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DEZKA DIABLO
Inner.Hell
553
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 09:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums.
Scouts were screwed for 9 months leave them cuz assaults need a buff, a amar scout with one plate has almost 350 armor, and don't take the slots cuz then scouts can't see scouts, REAL SCOUTS don't run 800 HP most of em anyway, it's the new scouts that are the problem, make a better medium problem solved
Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2306
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:16:00 -
[89] - Quote
Yan Darn wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums. On your first point, I'm sorry, that is a terrible idea. Slots aren't just used for tanking - precision enchancers, range amps, dampeners, kin cats, regs, code breakers. You say 'even one slot' will make the difference as if we got more than one mod slot... Brick tanking is a problem with the modules not the the number of slots. The question is why are people brick tanking a speed/stealth/ewar suit , instead of an assault suit... Your second point makes far more sense to me.
I said it was the simplest solution by no means do I mean its the best.
Personally I think the best thing is to make HP modules the most expensive in terms of fitting cost in comparison to now.
Then to buff Assaults base HP slightly amd give Assaults 8 slots like the logistics.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1276
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:35:00 -
[90] - Quote
Lynn Beck wrote:My galscout uses a enhanced ferroscale, kincat and range amp or dampener.
Highs are dmg mod(lemme hear the 'y u do dat') and precision amp.
My minscout (at proto) uses 1(one, **** man, i'm tanking eh?) shield, maybe a basic reactive(2!? Holy hell i'm OP.)
Funny enough, Pyrex is abusing the Gallente scout day 1, 87/750 HPs and moves faster than a gal assault.
Maybe we should use a 'weight' measurement? Spaceships don't use weight as they're gravityless, but i mean, a scout stacking myrofibs should have the musculature to carry an HMG, eh?
The closer to your weight you get, the slower you go, go even 1 point over and your speed is dropped by like 20%.
Ever play Armored Core 3/Nx/SL/NB/LR? Thing's pretty darned fun with the weight.
Give heavies a super ridiculous weight fitting, along with making heavy weapons super heavy.
Plates add as much weight as a light weapon, sidearms as much as a reactive.
If you want to tank your scout, better fit a Myrofib and drop the shotty for an Ion pistol. Wanna fit a forge on a logi?(huehue) stack 3 myros, and use ferroscales instead of plates.
Sounds like fun, eh?
Sounds like rebalencing the whole game
No thanks |
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