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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1276
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:37:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:CCP went too far and gave scouts too many advantages. I am a scout and I like the new stealth play style but the ability to brick tank scouts and cloak at the same time hurts the game balance badly. Keep the stealth, cut down ability to brick tank. Scouts are useful now. Get over it. Scouts are OP now, get over it.
Scouts are most certainly not op
The only suit with a problem is assaults
Thowing the whole game out of wack because assaults are UP is a bad idea |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1276
|
Posted - 2014.03.30 10:39:00 -
[92] - Quote
tander09 wrote:how about we nerf the shotty and gallente scout first...
No, just no...
*facepalm* |
Macchi00
LORD-BRITISH
72
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:41:00 -
[93] - Quote
Scout cloak in receive a lot of damage and what about?
I love ForgeGun.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1276
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Posted - 2014.03.30 10:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
Macchi00 wrote:Scout cloak in receive a lot of damage and what about?
What? |
Yan Darn
Science For Death
453
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Posted - 2014.03.30 13:02:00 -
[95] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Yan Darn wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Ok, Im all for a SLIGHT nerf to scouts EHP (meeting scouts with more armour than I have EHP is getting tiresome), but we need to be careful not to over do it.
The simplest solution would be to take back the slot buffs scouts got, even 1 slot will make a difference.
For those wondering I run a Minmatar Medium Assault, typically at advanced level.
I have Shields and Armour Skill trees maxed out.
I fit
2xAdvanced Shield Extender
1xEnergizer
1xAdvanced Plate
1xAdvanced Repper
I get ~ 220 Shields + 240 Armour = 460EHP
Yesteday I met an advanced scout with 480 Armour and >150 Shields.
Today I met an advanced scout with just shy of 400 Shields
It proves Mediums need a bit of a hand up( maybe even leave scouts where they are and buff mediums. On your first point, I'm sorry, that is a terrible idea. Slots aren't just used for tanking - precision enchancers, range amps, dampeners, kin cats, regs, code breakers. You say 'even one slotq' will make the difference as if we got more than one mod slot... Brick tanking is a problem with the modules not the the number of slots. The question is why are people brick tanking a speed/stealth/ewar suit , instead of an assault suit... Your second point makes far more sense to me. I said it was the simplest solution by no means do I mean its the best. Personally I think the best thing is to make HP modules the most expensive in terms of fitting cost in comparison to now. Then to buff Assaults base HP slightly amd give Assaults 8 slots like the logistics.
The simplest (not best) solution to me would be either prevent light frames from equipping regular armour plates or have it so you can't fit multiple armour plates - the same way you can't fit multiple cloaks.
I agree that it's the modules themselves that need adjusting.
I'm not trying to attack anyone, but considering the game wide nature of the brick tanking issue, when people start suggesting adjusting scout base stats it sounds like a knee jerk over reaction - for example this guy....
tander09 wrote:how about we nerf the shotty and gallente scout first...
Don't troll - some people would be daft enough to think this makes sense.
The Ghost of Bravo
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
968
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Posted - 2014.03.30 21:29:00 -
[96] - Quote
DEZKA DIABLO wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:CCP went too far and gave scouts too many advantages. I am a scout and I like the new stealth play style but the ability to brick tank scouts and cloak at the same time hurts the game balance badly. Keep the stealth, cut down ability to brick tank. I run 2 percision enh, two speed mods, two dampeners, 87 shields/ 167 armor, are your for fakkin real dude?
gdi, another one. This thread is not about you; it's about that scout next to you who does brick tank. I think I've said it like 7 times already in this thread.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
871
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Posted - 2014.03.30 23:09:00 -
[97] - Quote
So why not just make the suggestion that cpu/pg of armor needs to be increased, and stop whining about scouts?
Looking for the scout hangout?
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
968
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Posted - 2014.03.31 02:47:00 -
[98] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So why not just make the suggestion that cpu/pg of armor needs to be increased, and stop whining about scouts?
Thanks for being the bigger man and pointing out the obvious.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4705
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:04:00 -
[99] - Quote
Good Scouts easily see brick-tanked Scouts coming, avoid being seen, then flank and kill.
Good Scouts have around half the eHP of brick-tanked Scouts, but can still kill fast enough not to get hurt seriously.
Good Assaults see brick-tanked Scouts in time to damage-race them.
Good Assaults are often brick-tanked like Scouts, but with a higher eHP total, meaning they're better at brick-tanking.
Good brick-tanked Scouts play like good Assaults against Scouts, and play like good Scouts against Assaults.
If you're not as good a player as a good brick-tanked Scout is, they will exploit your weaknesses.
In the current build, large eHP and DPS differences matter, but smaller differences can be balanced out somewhat with EWAR capabilities. A "proper" Scout will counter a brick-tanked Scout because the lack of eHP isn't enough to let a brick-tanked Scout survive when flanked and outplayed, and the proper Scout has the ability to keep track of the brick-tanked Scout without being seen. A brick-tanked Scout will counter an Assault for the same reasons. They'll probably take some damage, but they'll get the kill before the Assault can finish the job, because they strike first. An Assault's eHP and/or DPS advantage is significant enough to let them counter a Scout that doesn't brick-tank, though, because they'll tank enough hits to turn and still be able to kill the Scout before they die. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4705
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:07:00 -
[100] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:So why not just make the suggestion that cpu/pg of armor needs to be increased, and stop whining about scouts?
Because that will break Assaults, which are already struggling to brick-tank more effectively than a Scout can.
The problem isn't that Scouts are OP though, it's that Assaults need a slight buff.
Add an extra slot or two on the Assault suits (along with enough PG and CPU to use them) and make Assaults the flexible and adaptable suits they're meant to be. Logis don't need massive amounts of fitting slots, they have flexibility in equipment. They could stand to lose some slots and PG/CPU in exchange for a bit of extra HP. |
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Fiddlestaxp
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
664
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:13:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nerf plates. The movement speed penalty reduction was enough on it's own to make them viable. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
970
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:One Eyed King wrote:So why not just make the suggestion that cpu/pg of armor needs to be increased, and stop whining about scouts? Because that will break Assaults, which are already struggling to brick-tank more effectively than a Scout can. The problem isn't that Scouts are OP though, it's that Assaults need a slight buff. Add an extra slot or two on the Assault suits (along with enough PG and CPU to use them) and make Assaults the flexible and adaptable suits they're meant to be. Logis don't need massive amounts of fitting slots, they have flexibility in equipment. They could stand to lose some slots and PG/CPU in exchange for a bit of extra HP.
You see ppl keep saying that scouts are fine but assaults need a buff; I think that scouts could be nerfed a bit to bring them in balance with assaults and we'd be better off. If you buff assaults, heavies would be UP and the whole cycle would repeat.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4706
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:19:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:You see ppl keep saying that scouts are fine but assaults need a buff; I think that scouts could be nerfed a bit to bring them in balance with assaults and we'd be better off. If you buff assaults, heavies would be UP and the whole cycle would repeat.
Except that Heavies wouldn't be UP because if you're an Assault player, Scouts, Heavies and Logis all look OP right now, and if you're any other suit except an Assault, it all looks pretty balanced except that Assault players seem to suck. So... buff Assaults SLIGHTLY - not too much - and it makes the game more balanced. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
970
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 03:24:00 -
[104] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:You see ppl keep saying that scouts are fine but assaults need a buff; I think that scouts could be nerfed a bit to bring them in balance with assaults and we'd be better off. If you buff assaults, heavies would be UP and the whole cycle would repeat. Except that Heavies wouldn't be UP because if you're an Assault player, Scouts, Heavies and Logis all look OP right now, and if you're any other suit except an Assault, it all looks pretty balanced except that Assault players seem to suck. So... buff Assaults SLIGHTLY - not too much - and it makes the game more balanced.
Ok, I don't know for sure I have not been playing all that much to get a good handle on relative class strengths. Maybe you are right. I still do think that gal scout with tons of hp and SG is OP relative to other classes; mind you as a min scout I don't suffer at their hands, so no hidden agenda.
PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8.
That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4709
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Posted - 2014.03.31 03:37:00 -
[105] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:You see ppl keep saying that scouts are fine but assaults need a buff; I think that scouts could be nerfed a bit to bring them in balance with assaults and we'd be better off. If you buff assaults, heavies would be UP and the whole cycle would repeat. Except that Heavies wouldn't be UP because if you're an Assault player, Scouts, Heavies and Logis all look OP right now, and if you're any other suit except an Assault, it all looks pretty balanced except that Assault players seem to suck. So... buff Assaults SLIGHTLY - not too much - and it makes the game more balanced. Ok, I don't know for sure I have not been playing all that much to get a good handle on relative class strengths. Maybe you are right. I still do think that gal scout with tons of hp and SG is OP relative to other classes; mind you as a min scout I don't suffer at their hands, so no hidden agenda.
Any GalScout with tons of HP has no EWAR capabilities compared with other Scouts, gets spotted by Scouts and Scanner-wielding enemies, doesn't see enemy Scouts coming and dies before getting into Shotgun range if the opponents are competent. They can also be outrun by most Scouts and some Assaults. Against Heavies, Shotguns don't kill fast enough and the "victim" often has time to turn and melt the Scout's face with their HMG. I run a Gallente Scout (not brick-tanked OR cloaked though) with a Shotgun, and I'm actually happy with the RoF nerf on Shotguns because it allows Heavies to more effectively punish Shotgunners when they make a mistake.
CalScouts with stacked Shield Extenders and an armour repper in the low slot can be just as scary as GalScouts. They can fit a cloak to conceal themselves from most scanners and hide visibly at a distance or even in closer against less observant players, and they get a natural precision advantage to better track enemy movements. Their base shield regen and extremely short delay means they recover from damage quickly, and with such low armour HP, even a 2HP/s Standard or Militia repper is enough to keep their armour topped up nicely. It's not quite the same as a GalBrickScout, but it's an interesting threat to be faced with when you're running anything else. |
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