You sad you can't run triple hardeners and be invincible anymore? My heart goes out to ya...

CCP, if you're going to go the route of Call of Duty, which 99% of the forums seems to want you to go, then just bow down to them already and remove vehicles. If you're going to make them that worthless, then I want no part in them, and I'd rather use the SP to make a fullscrub lolassault suit and participate in Medium Suit 514.

He's right in a way. CCP doesn't know what to do with vehicles. They threw them in the game without giving them a clear role, maybe hoping for the "spontaneous generation of content" that they get in the sandbox of eve.

Only DUST is not a sandbox, it is a very limmited lobby shooter and the only thing people could do with it is slaughter infantry. So that's what they did. They used a main battle tank as a personal weapon in 1v1 duals with other mercs.

Unbalanced much?

You can't balance tanks in this environment. If you do they cease being what we think of as tanks. They become CoD tanks that get popped by free shoulder launchers that anyone can carry as a sidearm.

So yes, pull them until such a time as they get real roles of thier own an don't compete directly with infantry.

Nobody cares about the rail nerf.
i't's the hardener overnerf that's crippling.

My regen, with my fully-complex fit Gunnlogi running a single complex hardener, which takes up nearly one quarter of my fitting resources, can be stopped by a militia swarm launcher.

Even worse than that, blasters are now perfectly viable for CQC AV, where a rail was preferable previously and are still able to slaughter infantry all day long. Missiles are even more of a joke. Hardener nerf has barely decreased TTK, but TTK for rails and blasters has decreased dramatically.

Hardeners are on the out.

My current Gunnlogi fitting I'm tinkering with has an extender, a nitrous and and a damage mod in its highs, and a plate and a repper in its lows.
I've turned down the gun from a PRO turret to an ADV one, because there's no need for the particle cannon's DPS, considering that I'm trying to maximise my own survivability more than minimizing the enemy's.

I'll need to plug my numbers into a fitting calculator before I make any final decisions, but there it is: hardeners no longer have pride of place in a Gunnlogi fitting. In its place nothing has appeared save damage mods.

It's painfully clear you don't want them to have any kind of role on the battlefield.

I agree with the Battlefield kind of approach and I've been saying it for some time now. For the love of God CCP, buy a copy of Battlefield and play it a little bit. You will notice that the vehicles are FREE, yes FREE! And they are not OP! You can also fire a tank shell from one side of the map to the other without "redline sniping" being an issue. They have their strengths and weaknesses and a good tanker will know these and will play these strengths while knowing when to duck out when their position of strength suddenly changes.

While you are playing Battlefield please please please take note of the air-vehicle controls and notice how they are not akin to flying a brick with another brick hanging off the bottom of it! The controls for vehicles in Dust are shockingly bad and how the vehicles handle is equally bad! Please change this!

Also, I'm pretty sure that modern tank shells can fly for several miles, at what stage in the development of a railgun turret did you guys think 300m was a good max range? Don't get me wrong, I hate the redline rail tankers but nerfing the range to Civil War cannon range is not the way to fix it.

Thank you for not reading this CCP.

KaT

I'm all for HAV rails getting their 600 meter range back... Only if they boost the forge range to match.

The only reason for large rails to keep that range is to stay in the relative safety of the deep redline where nothing but another large rail can touch them.

With a 300 meter range, large rails now have to come into my area of engagement. Welcome to the battlefield.

QQ with a side of QQ

It's painfully clear you don't want them to have any kind of role on the battlefield. Now it's painfully easy for Joe Scrub to easily destroy me because lol, infantry can't do a damn thing about vehicles, and needs to have them nerfed all the damn time to cause a single little scratch to them.

I've been tanking for damn near a year, and now any worthless baby can easily destroy me, whether it be 0 SP AV or a completely MLT tank with 0 SP into it.

CCP, if you're going to go the route of Call of Duty, which 99% of the forums seems to want you to go, then just bow down to them already and remove vehicles. If you're going to make them that worthless, then I want no part in them, and I'd rather use the SP to make a fullscrub lolassault suit and participate in Medium Suit 514.

There's literally no point to tanking anymore. I used to be able to take on a bunch of really bad tankers and make a joke out of them. Now some idiot using tanks for the first time makes my experience completely useless.

For the first time ever, a tanker is starting a petition to remove vehicles. CCP, I've lost faith in your ability to make vehicles worth something. Now, I just want my SP in vehicles back so I can at least try to keep up with the status quo of Medium Suit 514. Remove vehicles, and show the world where you stand.

Alcohol may or may not have had a role in this thread. At either rate, the hell with my remaining SP, I'll get it without a booster because it's just not worth the damn effort. If you're going to incrementally nerf an entire playstyle, then goddamn remove it and to hell with all the pilots. Right?

Let's make tanks NPC autopilots. You call one in and just let it go. It rolls around at random shooting up the place.

There's literally no point to tanking anymore. I used to be able to take on a bunch of really bad tankers and make a joke out of them. Now some idiot using tanks for the first time makes my experience completely useless.

Something Something Spkr is dumb and has no logic

Now give me likes you bastards!

I don't think anyone on the forums has said that they want DUST to be like call of duty.

In fact if anything I would propose CCP take a Battlefield-esq approach to vehicles. By this I mean, make vehicles both cheaper and less tanky, however give them some form of countermeasures so that good tanking comes down to awareness and precise timing of ~modules~.
I assume changes like this would mean tanks in general would die more / quicker - however this is a good thing. At the same time CCP could make tanks / vehicles cheaper and thus you then have a situation similar to battlefield where for the most part - vehicles are balanced vs infantry.

The only other option as I see it is to take the other route and make vehicles / tanks akin to ships in eve. However for that to truely work, vehicles would need capacitors. (A pool of energy that is used up as modules and stuff are turned on / activated.)

I honestly do prefer the second option and I do think with a bit of input from the CCP EVE devs, could be awesome. However we know what CCP DUST is like and they are prone to make mistakes so for the sake of good gameplay, the first option of making ~Battlefield-esq~ tank gameplay is probably the way to go.

It's painfully clear you don't want them to have any kind of role on the battlefield. Now it's painfully easy for Joe Scrub to easily destroy me because lol, infantry can't do a damn thing about vehicles, and needs to have them nerfed all the damn time to cause a single little scratch to them.

I've been tanking for damn near a year, and now any worthless baby can easily destroy me, whether it be 0 SP AV or a completely MLT tank with 0 SP into it.

CCP, if you're going to go the route of Call of Duty, which 99% of the forums seems to want you to go, then just bow down to them already and remove vehicles. If you're going to make them that worthless, then I want no part in them, and I'd rather use the SP to make a fullscrub lolassault suit and participate in Medium Suit 514.

There's literally no point to tanking anymore. I used to be able to take on a bunch of really bad tankers and make a joke out of them. Now some idiot using tanks for the first time makes my experience completely useless.

For the first time ever, a tanker is starting a petition to remove vehicles. CCP, I've lost faith in your ability to make vehicles worth something. Now, I just want my SP in vehicles back so I can at least try to keep up with the status quo of Medium Suit 514. Remove vehicles, and show the world where you stand.

Alcohol may or may not have had a role in this thread. At either rate, the hell with my remaining SP, I'll get it without a booster because it's just not worth the damn effort. If you're going to incrementally nerf an entire playstyle, then goddamn remove it and to hell with all the pilots. Right?

I'm all for stopping the redline rail sniping, nothing annoys me more than some dude sitting back in his tank sniping infantry and the odd tank and going 12/0 while making no meaningful contribution to the battle. I was just trying to draw some comparisons between tanking in Dust and tanking in Battlefield, obviously they are very different games but my observation was that redline tank sniping is almost nonexistent in Battlefield.

The main reason for this is because air vehicles can fly over the redzone in Battlefield. You can attempt to redline snipe in Battlefield but I can almost guarantee someone will come along in a jet or attack chopper and pound you into the ground.

I think CCP are tackling the redline tank sniping issue in the wrong way. Instead of nerfing the range of the rail why not give people a number of effective ways of countering a redline tank sniper? (other than just another rail tank).

I agree with the general consensus that CCP just can't seem to get vehicles right in Dust and I think part of the reason for this is because they are trying to do too much with too few vehicles. They are trying to cover a wide variety of roles with essentially just two combat vehicles, the HAV and Dropship. I hate to keep harking back to Battlefield but look at all the different vehicles they have to cover all the roles in thag game.

You have light transport vehicles in the form of jeeps and such, medium transport vehicles that are good against infantry and light armour targets in the form of IFVs and then the heavy armour that is best suited to fighting other heavy armour. In the air you have transport choppers for getting people from A to B, light attack choppers that can carry a small number of guys while being effective against infantry and light armour and then the heavy attack choppers and jets to combat heavy armour and other air vehicles. CCP are trying to fulfill all these roles with the same two vehicles just with different turrets or fittings.

I know CCP probably don't give a monkeys what we think anyway and that I have probably wasted several minutes of my life writing this but I like when there is a reasonable and somewhat constructive conversation going on about something. Perhaps the OP might take heed from some of the replies on this thread and instead of QQ-ing like a ***** in future he might come up with something constructive to say or, failing that, refrain from posting his QQ crap in the first place.

Swarms are assistant weapons. Minor damage like mass drivers could be if balanced correctly... You want to kill a tank, it should be Forge Gun or Remotes/Proximities.

If you insist on doing swarms damage, then you have to equip some AV nades, chuck them both out, THEN blast away... but swarms are mostly to support a forge gun etc..

Cheaper???
Blood vessel in brain bursts spewing brain matter across my merc quarters