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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
454
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:40:00 -
[31] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I think tankers are being miss led ATM. Infantry has not asked for rail gun reduction that is from dropship and blaster tank pilots. I'm not asking for hardner or rep nerfs as I stated earlier that I can deal with just keeping you at bay. I'm no asking for AV buff because I know where it will leave ds pilots.
Blaster tanks are easymode they **** people off and cause a tremendous amount of qq. None of that will help tanks in the end. Could you consider a nerf on the turrets as opposed to all the other proposed changes? I think it would drop your qq at least from infantry and you can fight amongst yourselves over how badass the tank needs to be.
Rail guns needed a reduction because 600m is 3/4th's the distance on most maps . That's too much coverage for any weapon that's not being fired from space .
That was needed .
Blaster tanks are not easy mode . Players get hit and still can make an escape because it's not a OKH machine . That takes practice and a little anticipation , seeing as how you have to calculate distance , a players intended movement , your own personal field recognition as far as swarmers and forgers also other tanks . One has to constantly have their head on a swivel with a blaster turret and the added fact that missile and rail turrets can eat them alive at close to mid distance , there is a lot that comes into play while using blasters .
It's not a give me , easy win tool .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
710
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle that I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players.
I've pointed this out numerous times.
Follow that link in my sig to get a better picture of what I've said about them
But basically, I don't agree with them being able to murder infantry so easily. I feel small turrets should perform this role.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
454
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xun Tae wrote:Rail turret needs a second fix. Currently armor/blaster tanks win because they can drive on top of my turret preventing me from shooting. If I pull the trigger in that position it should explode (exposed under belly shot). I can even get behind me taking splash damage.
This was going on during 1.6 as well so it's a long needed to be addressed problem .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
454
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle that I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players. I've pointed this out numerous times. Follow that link in my sig to get a better picture of what I've said about them But basically, I don't agree with them being able to murder infantry so easily. I feel small turrets should perform this role.
There just aren't that many players who are anywhere near as good at manning a small turret .
That's just from my experience , players that I have had work with ( given the exception of a VERY FEW ) are terrible and waste ammo shooting at everything besides threats . They bail at times that , if given a few more seconds .. would have turned the outcome in the vehicle operator's favor . Leaving at the first blast from a large turret , swarmer , forges and drop ships .
As a vehicle pilot and your not in a steady squad with known people that would be dedicated at that and would have one's back in cases of trouble , a vehicle user with small turrets ... takes a chance at rolling the dice and this is not a stable approach .
That was one of the best things from 1.7 , making small turrets an option . I was against it at first and now I see the error of my ways .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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CLONE117
True Pros Forever
737
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
hell the halo warthog mahinegun turret is more effective than our small blasters.
the only time ive managed to kill something with the current small blasters was when the vehicles was not moving and the enemy i was shotting was also not moving. though it was good against heavies back before uprising and my default starter fit lavs removal. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9014
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Posted - 2014.03.28 19:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle that I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players.
No we can't and that why I suggested they be altered to be more AV focused and fire plasma canon rounds at a slower RoF from a smaller magazine.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
The Containment Unit
454
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:hell the halo warthog mahinegun turret is more effective than our small blasters.
the only time ive managed to kill something with the current small blasters was when the vehicles was not moving and the enemy i was shotting was also not moving. though it was good against heavies back before uprising and my default starter fit lavs removal.
also it takes the whole clip just to kill a scout most times.
It's hit detection seems kind of screwy . I specked into them and just don't use them unless I'm in a heavy suit and I pull up so close to someone that they are startled and it takes a moment for them to recognize what I'm doing and by then I've let off so many rounds into them I could hop out and finish the job if no one else on their team is around and I don't have a Mass on me at the time .
They do seem much more weaker then before 1.7 .
Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1613
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:05:00 -
[38] - Quote
For me large blaster turrets are actually the least immersive things in the game back in chrome and earlyuprising Ii used to run compressed ion cannons with dual dammage mods and heat syncs on my Gunnlogi as they actually made blaster combat so much more enjoyable and tank like . The blaster turrets we have just now are like a mix between the stabilised (range) and the scattered (spread) . I personally prefer to run missiles and rails as they actually make you feel like your in a tank the blasters to me don't really make for fun game play , they only make for easy kills and that's not really fun for me.
Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012.
I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
3197
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
I built a Maddy with triple reps and an ADV blaster.
It is most definitely a force multiplier.
That tank gives me a multiple of your DPS, eHP, and speed. I sat and dueled with a FG user who ducked behind a wall to charge and popped out to hit me. I just tanked the round and repped back up to full before he came out for another shot. Meanwhile I kept chipping away at his armor until he died. I was at zero risk in a 1v1.
Why is that? Because it's the equivalent of a Main Battle Tank going target shooting vs. lone infantry units if it swapped out its main cannon for the Gatling gun in an A10-Warthog.
It only requires one player to operate all that power. If you still need convincing, imagine an Ambush match with 16 Maddys on one side and 16 dropsuits of your choice on the other.
How do you fix that? Well, you could balance the tank with the dropsuit, but at that point the tank is so weak it ceases being what we think of a tank. You could give it a mission other than slaughtering infantry one at a time, something that makes the railgun the turret of choice. Pull the large blaster so it isn't so effective as AI and give it something else to blow up. You know, like how tanks operate in our world. Of course that means you have to add something to the game for them to do instead.
So the only options are:
1) Balance them against the dropsuit and destroy them as tanks.
2) Require mult-player crews to balance out the multiplier factor
3) Pull them from the game until they have something else to do. |
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1962
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle that I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players. No we can't and that why I suggested they be altered to be more AV focused and fire plasma canon rounds at a slower RoF from a smaller magazine.
Elaborate because Plasma Cannons are so slow and have mega arc.
Team carry Prof. IV
I am a carried scrub!
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Negative-Feedback
1962
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Posted - 2014.03.28 20:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Blaster F's up infantry
Missile F's up blaster Maddy
Rail F's up Blaster Gunnlogi
Team carry Prof. IV
I am a carried scrub!
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
3201
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Blaster F's up infantry
Missile F's up blaster Maddy
Rail F's up Blaster Gunnlogi
To paraphrase "You need a vehicle to counter a vehicle". |
pink FLUFF
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
117
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:[quote=IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY]
~Words about tanks in ambush
There are other game types. Your 20m is not wasted, stop doing ambush and explore your options. |
GeneralButtNaked
Amarr Templars
931
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
To paraphrase "You need a vehicle to counter a vehicle".
Given the changes to hardeners, I think everyone needs to wait until forges are working right to start talking about what needs to happen next.
Being able to one clip either type of tank should be alright, maybe charge times will still need to be changed to deal with all rep tanks.
Right now it is impossible to tell while the FG is so borked.
Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
9017
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:True Adamance wrote:IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle that I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players. No we can't and that why I suggested they be altered to be more AV focused and fire plasma canon rounds at a slower RoF from a smaller magazine. Elaborate because Plasma Cannons are so slow and have mega arc.
That's just it.
You want to be in close range where you can mitigate the travel time and arc of the shots to land direct hits of vehicles. As the turret fires more power shots at a slower RoF skillshoting infantry is still entirely possible by the Blaster then focuses more towards and anti vehicle role.
That being said relying on the enemy to drop HAV for a fight is boring. IMO all tank turrets should be powerful befitting their size, durable as they have been perhaps slightly less durable..... and primarily designed to engage other HAV or ground based vehicles like LAV,MAV, MTAC however they should still be able to hurt infantry units with aim or AoE effects making them more viable for assaulting points but requiring better aim and placement of shots.
As you say the Arc is another feature of the plasma canon and IMO an important and unique feature that should be attributed to the blaster turret if such changes are made. As the Blaster would have pretty good RoF and DPS it could make sense to balance that against its capacity for long and short ranged combat. AT short range the arc is mitigated and the rounds fire as normal, but at long you must compensate for the arcing fire.
"Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"
-Dagger Two
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IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
303
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
pink FLUFF wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:[quote=IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY]
~Words about tanks in ambush
There are other game types. Your 20m is not wasted, stop doing ambush and explore your options.
Fluff you can do better ambush isn't even part of the discussion btw get on my lvl I'm at 40 mil now |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3135
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:27:00 -
[47] - Quote
pink FLUFF wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:[quote=IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY]
~Words about tanks in ambush
There are other game types. Your 20m is not wasted, stop doing ambush and explore your options.
It could be wasted if they ever add restrictions to skirm and domo which is all i play
Its like restricting infantry and so everyone is forced to run heavy and only 1 logi or assault and its whoever spawns 1st
Intelligence is OP
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Leonid Tybalt
Inner.Hell
391
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Posted - 2014.03.28 21:31:00 -
[48] - Quote
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY wrote:I'm not a tank fan thus why I've run a forge forever. That said I don't ever suggest tweaks for them. I get frustrated by all the same qq you see here, running from engagements at light speed, hardners that soak all AV, reppers that bring full health in between each forge shot, etc. Maybe the point of AV is just to harass and keep them from doing their job, and I can handle ccp's I don't have to kill them all.
My questions to tankers is can you justify large blaster turrets? They're the one thing more than anything that doesn't add up from a force multiplier angle with limits on the number of players.
Yes?
Like infantry should have specialized weaponry for different situations (shotguns for close quarters combat, mass drivers and grenades for area clearance, sniper rifles for long range engagements, AV-weaponry for taking out vehicles etc.) so should tanks.
Railguns fit the anti-tank niche, while large blasters fit the anti-infantry niche.
I'd prefer if blasters got nerfed in some way as to make them less effective against other tanks (if you fit an anti-infantry cannon then you shouldn't do much damage to another tank), and railguns less effective against infantry (decreased splash damage perhaps, or something that makes it almost impossible to hit infantry), in order to make the respective turrets fit their niches better.
But despite ccp's balancing mistakes, it's perfectly justified for tanks to have specialized main weapons. |
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