DUST Search - why can scouts assault better than assault suits?

Ares 514 wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

Ares 514 wrote:

Echo 1991 wrote:

Ares 514 wrote:

Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong.

An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank.

Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this.

Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have.

You won't have more ehp, you would have the ability to setup shop with rep hives if you deployed them but that kind of defeats the bonuses of the scout suit (speed etc...). So in this case you'd have less hp but better reps if you stayed still. I really don't think you'll see to many scouts doing this and if they do then my question is why aren't they in a logi suit which would do this better. I like variability and sure you can do some things not intended with a suit but then i would argue that a good scout would be more deadly not doing this and playing to the suits strengths.

I feel your pain, i hated the logi suit being a better assault for 1+ year.

The gallente scout can get as much hp as my assault at proto level. I know because i saw it. I just think that should change.

Are you running a shield based assault? I think your seeing the difference between shield extenders and armour plates, which is another discussion. Also are your core skills maxed? Do you maximize your hp first then fit other stuff? I'm just saying i'd be surprised if a gal scout could beat it's gal assault cousin (don't they get 2 high and 5 lows?)

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Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 149	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:18:00 - [1] - Quote Im all for scouts having a decent role on the field but a scout should not be able to get more hp on a suit and still be faster than the assault suit. Its already really annoying and i dont think its fair. The scout should receive a slightly larger movement penalty On plates they have a smaller suit with fewer augmentations. The mass should affect it more. If you think this is wrong please say. Its open to discussion i just dont want my assault suit made totally redundant.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1928	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:19:00 - [2] - Quote Please stop these threads already. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 149	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:20:00 - [3] - Quote No. I want to discuss it. You dont have to read it.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1928	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:21:00 - [4] - Quote Do it in one already existing thread then. Reported for spamming. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 128	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:23:00 - [5] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Im all for scouts having a decent role on the field but a scout should not be able to get more hp on a suit and still be faster than the assault suit. Its already really annoying and i dont think its fair. The scout should receive a slightly larger movement penalty On plates they have a smaller suit with fewer augmentations. The mass should affect it more. If you think this is wrong please say. Its open to discussion i just dont want my assault suit made totally redundant. Scouts with a lot of hp die quick, also i agree with a bit added speed penalty for those stacking them armors
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 175	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:24:00 - [6] - Quote I believe that assaults although obviously slower, should have a greater damage output that is significant enough to complement with the scouts speed. This forces the scout to use actual flanking tactics (and others like cloaking etc.) and would balance out the level of the scout and the assault. The answer to your question is obviously that scouts can tank just as much armor and move much better/faster than regular assaults, making it pointless to use assaults. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1092	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:24:00 - [7] - Quote Fraid to say it but scouts are FOTM, been a scout for a while and i don't mean 2 days, but soon all these FOTMers will realise a assault is better to tank with higher speed than a scout. *Assassination is my thing.*
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 149	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:24:00 - [8] - Quote Its not about cloaks or shotgun scouts. Its about scouts doing a role better than a suit that is designed for it. You are just being a douche.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3701	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:26:00 - [9] - Quote Assaults are the all-rounders. But now that just means they get killed by all the new stuff. If they had received useful bonuses rather than that weapon-specific shite they might've actually had a chance to compete. That said, I've seen the Minmatar Assault in a few matches really messing people up. No.
Asha Starwind DUST University Ivy League 651	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:26:00 - [10] - Quote Same reason logi's are still better than assaults at assaulting; assaults are weaksauce in 1.8. Mad Bomber - 50% less profile Return dumbfire to Swarms

Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:28:00 - [11] - Quote Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. ...
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2075	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:29:00 - [12] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Please stop these threads already. Scout scrub in denial. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1928	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:33:00 - [13] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Please stop these threads already. Scout scrub in denial. Yep. As much a scout scrub as any scout. I just adapt better. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 152	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:34:00 - [14] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have.
Paran Tadec The Hetairoi 2075	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:36:00 - [15] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Please stop these threads already. Scout scrub in denial. Yep. As much a scout scrub as any scout. I just adapt better. You have to admit there are some problems with the cloak currently.. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 177	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:40:00 - [16] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Fraid to say it but scouts are FOTM, been a scout for a while and i don't mean 2 days, but soon all these FOTMers will realise a assault is better to tank with higher speed than a scout. They lose the benefit of the cloak, but that's necessary in order to get better mobility and damage output. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:41:00 - [17] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have. You won't have more ehp, you would have the ability to setup shop with rep hives if you deployed them but that kind of defeats the bonuses of the scout suit (speed etc...). So in this case you'd have less hp but better reps if you stayed still. I really don't think you'll see to many scouts doing this and if they do then my question is why aren't they in a logi suit which would do this better. I like variability and sure you can do some things not intended with a suit but then i would argue that a good scout would be more deadly not doing this and playing to the suits strengths. I feel your pain, i hated the logi suit being a better assault for 1+ year. ...
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 153	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:46:00 - [18] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have. You won't have more ehp, you would have the ability to setup shop with rep hives if you deployed them but that kind of defeats the bonuses of the scout suit (speed etc...). So in this case you'd have less hp but better reps if you stayed still. I really don't think you'll see to many scouts doing this and if they do then my question is why aren't they in a logi suit which would do this better. I like variability and sure you can do some things not intended with a suit but then i would argue that a good scout would be more deadly not doing this and playing to the suits strengths. I feel your pain, i hated the logi suit being a better assault for 1+ year. The gallente scout can get as much hp as my assault at proto level. I know because i saw it. I just think that should change.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2306	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:47:00 - [19] - Quote On PRO damp and lvl V skills on an assault means you can avoid a lot of scans. Combine that with base HP, and some tank, and you have one of the cheapest fastest suits you can get. When you try to fit a scout suit with the best weapons and an assault tank - you will only move a bit faster than an assault, you will likely have lower health, you will have better shield regen, but the lower profile you get with a scout matters much less at that point.
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 153	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:52:00 - [20] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: On PRO damp and lvl V skills on an assault means you can avoid a lot of scans. Combine that with base HP, and some tank, and you have one of the cheapest fastest suits you can get. When you try to fit a scout suit with the best weapons and an assault tank - you will only move a bit faster than an assault, you will likely have lower health, you will have better shield regen, but the lower profile you get with a scout matters much less at that point. Again i have seen scouts with more hp than me. Sure if i swapped a repair module i'd have about 50 more hp but i would be slow as hell and would not be quick enough to get into cover. Scouts dont have that problem. Carry a rep hive or 2. Run and hide cost you are faster than everyone else and repair.

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1931	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:55:00 - [21] - Quote So, the problem is obviously not scouts, logis or sentinel suits. The problem is with the assault suit being UP compared to all the other choices. Just compare the assault suit CPU/PG with any of the above. Then compare skill bonuses and slot layouts. Wait a few weeks and your assault suit will be better. CCP are already aware of these issues, so take a chili pill. /Thread Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 439	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:55:00 - [22] - Quote Guys I am a scout and have been for some time now. I fitted 1000hp (989hp) proto guns proto sidearm, cloaks, RE, nades On top I have passive scaners/passive rep/dampening/high shield recharge This is OP in every way there is. Saying anything else is just trolling. It's not the way the scout is supposed to work in my mind, it should be fast,agile,stealthy but squishy as a balance. Suggestion: Make the speed penalty if staking armor ( more 4 scouts ) Make dampening penalty if staking shield and a massive shield recharge rate nerf if staking on a scout Make one of the equipment slots dedicated to cloak War never changes
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 709	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:56:00 - [23] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have. You won't have more ehp, you would have the ability to setup shop with rep hives if you deployed them but that kind of defeats the bonuses of the scout suit (speed etc...). So in this case you'd have less hp but better reps if you stayed still. I really don't think you'll see to many scouts doing this and if they do then my question is why aren't they in a logi suit which would do this better. I like variability and sure you can do some things not intended with a suit but then i would argue that a good scout would be more deadly not doing this and playing to the suits strengths. I feel your pain, i hated the logi suit being a better assault for 1+ year. The gallente scout can get as much hp as my assault at proto level. I know because i saw it. I just think that should change. Are you running a shield based assault? I think your seeing the difference between shield extenders and armour plates, which is another discussion. Also are your core skills maxed? Do you maximize your hp first then fit other stuff? I'm just saying i'd be surprised if a gal scout could beat it's gal assault cousin (don't they get 2 high and 5 lows?) ...
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1931	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:58:00 - [24] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: Guys I am a scout and have been for some time now. I fitted 1000hp (989hp) proto guns proto sidearm, cloaks, RE, nades On top I have passive scaners/passive rep/dampening/high shield recharge This is OP in every way there is. Saying anything else is just trolling. It's not the way the scout is supposed to work in my mind, it should be fast,agile,stealthy but squishy as a balance. Suggestion: Make the speed penalty if staking armor ( more 4 scouts ) Make dampening penalty if staking shield and a massive shield recharge rate nerf if staking on a scout Make one of the equipment slots dedicated to cloak You have fittings, because you know, you should fit stuff on your suit. Drop it like its hat. I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 122	Posted - 2014.03.27 16:59:00 - [25] - Quote Scouts are so scared of a nerf they will lie lie lie... Kinda like tankers. Cloaks are a crutch which fixes terrible gameplay and provides the worst scouts a huge advantage. It needs to go.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2137	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:00:00 - [26] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Its not about cloaks or shotgun scouts. Its about scouts doing a role better than a suit that is designed for it. You are just being a douche. Define assault please.
Echo 1991 WarRavens League of Infamy 153	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:00:00 - [27] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Okay, ignoring the fact that stacking hp is not usually the best setup for a scout, your base argument is wrong. An Assault has higher base hp, combined with maxed skills this increases it further. Then scouts have 6 slots at proto while assault have 7 slots. So when comparing similar layouts (suits with more lows or more highs) the assault should always have more hp if they both fully tank. Not to say they didn't mess over the assault role bonus IMO, but argue the real issue not this. Ok. Scouts have 2 equip slots. Allowing for increased survivabilty. You can carry two rep hives and tank out your suit and have more ehp than an assault without compromising much speed. That is the problem i have. You won't have more ehp, you would have the ability to setup shop with rep hives if you deployed them but that kind of defeats the bonuses of the scout suit (speed etc...). So in this case you'd have less hp but better reps if you stayed still. I really don't think you'll see to many scouts doing this and if they do then my question is why aren't they in a logi suit which would do this better. I like variability and sure you can do some things not intended with a suit but then i would argue that a good scout would be more deadly not doing this and playing to the suits strengths. I feel your pain, i hated the logi suit being a better assault for 1+ year. The gallente scout can get as much hp as my assault at proto level. I know because i saw it. I just think that should change. Are you running a shield based assault? I think your seeing the difference between shield extenders and armour plates, which is another discussion. Also are your core skills maxed? Do you maximize your hp first then fit other stuff? I'm just saying i'd be surprised if a gal scout could beat it's gal assault cousin (don't they get 2 high and 5 lows?) Gal assault is what i use.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2137	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:01:00 - [28] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Scouts are so scared of a nerf they will lie lie lie... Kinda like tankers. Cloaks are a crutch which fixes terrible gameplay and provides the worst scouts a huge advantage. It needs to go. Don't hold your breath :) Don't worry though, I won't argue about it further here.
mollerz 3003	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:02:00 - [29] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Please stop these threads already. Scout scrub in denial. Yep. As much a scout scrub as any scout. I just adapt better. You have to admit there are some problems with the cloak currently.. yea.. it exposed a lot of cry babies who can't adapt, nor look with their own eyes. i'm glad you are so butt hurt you'e ruined any credibility you may have had. HTFU You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
mollerz 3003	Posted - 2014.03.27 17:03:00 - [30] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Scouts are so scared of a nerf they will lie lie lie... Kinda like tankers. Cloaks are a crutch which fixes terrible gameplay and provides the worst scouts a huge advantage. It needs to go. So which scout repeatedly handed you your ass? I now want to shake their hand. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla



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