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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
710
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:[quote=Ares 514][quote=Echo 1991]
....
The gallente scout can get as much hp as my assault at proto level. I know because i saw it. I just think that should change.
Are you running a shield based assault? I think your seeing the difference between shield extenders and armour plates, which is another discussion. Also are your core skills maxed? Do you maximize your hp first then fit other stuff? I'm just saying i'd be surprised if a gal scout could beat it's gal assault cousin (don't they get 2 high and 5 lows?) Gal assault is what i use.
So if you did nothing but tank your suit are you saying you couldn't beat the scout on hp? I agree the assaults are not in a good place at the moment but if you really wanted to you should be able to win the total hp war with a gal scout since you have more base hp and more slots. Not really arguing about assaults being in a good place, just saying you could out hp the scout.
FYI, those tanked scouts your worried about would be pretty easy pray for a real scout setup.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
440
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:10:00 -
[32] - Quote
No sh-ít hombre Plz tell me more about the fitting mechanics of the game!
I can fit ANYTHING on my scout. I just don't believe it's working at the moment since the light suits are better at assaulting than the medium suits.
You sir may disagree on that this is flawed but I stay with my saying that's it's OP and not intended to be that way in the game. That's why we have different suits and maybe just maybe the cloak bonus that scouts gets is a indication on what CCP wants with the game?
But it's okey to have a different opinion my good sir
Regards
War never changes
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axINVICTUSxa
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
28
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Truth is, Assault is not bad either.
I run basic cloak with an exile + a couple mods (Complex PG Upgrade and Complex CPU upgrade)
on a BASIC/STD Gallente/Caldari Assault Suit
I've been getting a good number of kills, especially on cloaked people who don't have a clue how to use them.
In fact, running cloaks on assaults is slightly more cost-effective imho than running it on scouts, except that scouts can equip two cloak fields -- meaning unlimited cloaking time.
I just think its fun, though, with CPU fitting customization for Plasma Cannons, you can sit in a corner in the city (in some maps) and wait for someone to pass by, then melt their face off with a plasma cannon. Best part? They have no idea you're there. That is, until you fire...
But thats why you have a cloak ))
I wallow in pools of blood and wash myself anew, I throw away my ugly self in order to become something beautiful...
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
710
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:No sh-ít hombre Plz tell me more about the fitting mechanics of the game!
I can fit ANYTHING on my scout. I just don't believe it's working at the moment since the light suits are better at assaulting than the medium suits.
You sir may disagree on that this is flawed but I stay with my saying that's it's OP and not intended to be that way in the game. That's why we have different suits and maybe just maybe the cloak bonus that scouts gets is a indication on what CCP wants with the game?
But it's okey to have a different opinion my good sir
Regards
Really? Where were you when the logis where the gods among assaults? STFU.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
710
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
axINVICTUSxa wrote:Truth is, Assault is not bad either.
I run basic cloak with an exile + a couple mods (Complex PG Upgrade and Complex CPU upgrade)
on a BASIC/STD Gallente/Caldari Assault Suit
I've been getting a good number of kills, especially on cloaked people who don't have a clue how to use them.
In fact, running cloaks on assaults is slightly more cost-effective imho than running it on scouts, except that scouts can equip two cloak fields -- meaning unlimited cloaking time.
I just think its fun, though, with CPU fitting customization for Plasma Cannons, you can sit in a corner in the city (in some maps) and wait for someone to pass by, then melt their face off with a plasma cannon. Best part? They have no idea you're there. That is, until you fire...
But thats why you have a cloak ))
You can't fit more then one cloak.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens League of Infamy
153
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
It is difficult to brick tank and still be effective as an assault now. You can have similar hp in a scout and be faster and more effective. |
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1935
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:22:00 -
[37] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:It is difficult to brick tank and still be effective as an assault now. You can have similar hp in a scout and be faster and more effective.
You knew this before the patch, and you still chose an assault suit? Meh, come on.
Drop it like its hat.
I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
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Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
579
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Assault suits are broken. This has been know for a few months.
Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles!
Heroes in a half Gank!
TURTLE POWER!!!
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2276
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
Scouts fall in seconds to my 400EHP Minmatar suit, nothing is wrong with them. Cloaks are annoying but you just need to keep your eyes open.
Health isn't a problem, I imagine assaults will be boosted to 8slot totals soon anyway, pair this with some of the rather incredible bonuses we get as assaults.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1935
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Assault suits are broken. This has been know for a few months.
^ This.
And health is not everything.
Drop it like its hat.
I´m a fat scout. Do you even lift bro?
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Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
4213
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Scout a.k0
2x Complex Shield Extender
BK-42 Assault Combat Rifle ADV Bolt Pistol
3x Complex Armor Plates 1x Complex Armor Repairer
ARN-17 Cloak Field Compact Nanohive
Yeah, it's a monster.
I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
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Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
474
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:50:00 -
[42] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Guys I am a scout and have been for some time now.
I fitted 1000hp (989hp) proto guns proto sidearm, cloaks, RE, nades
On top I have passive scaners/passive rep/dampening/high shield recharge
This is OP in every way there is. Saying anything else is just trolling.
It's not the way the scout is supposed to work in my mind, it should be fast,agile,stealthy but squishy as a balance.
Suggestion:
Make the speed penalty if staking armor ( more 4 scouts ) Make dampening penalty if staking shield and a massive shield recharge rate nerf if staking on a scout Make one of the equipment slots dedicated to cloak
Called it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=149208 |
Echo 1991
WarRavens League of Infamy
157
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 17:50:00 -
[43] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:It is difficult to brick tank and still be effective as an assault now. You can have similar hp in a scout and be faster and more effective. You knew this before the patch, and you still chose an assault suit? Meh, come on. Why am i gonna be like you and skill into a role that i dont want to do just because its op? Im not gonna change from the suit i have used since it was released because its UP. Thats a scrubby move. I dont need a clutch to play the game i just want a balanced battlefield. |
Nocturnal Soul
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
2531
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Posted - 2014.03.27 17:55:00 -
[44] - Quote
So does an Amarr Scout get a pass because we're slower than assault suits.
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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Echo 1991
WarRavens League of Infamy
157
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:So does an Amarr Scout get a pass because we're slower than assault suits. You are slower than 1 assault suit. But can still strafe as fast. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
9143
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Doomed to repeat the same mistakes I see. Good luck scouts, you're going to need it.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
441
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:No sh-ít hombre Plz tell me more about the fitting mechanics of the game!
I can fit ANYTHING on my scout. I just don't believe it's working at the moment since the light suits are better at assaulting than the medium suits.
You sir may disagree on that this is flawed but I stay with my saying that's it's OP and not intended to be that way in the game. That's why we have different suits and maybe just maybe the cloak bonus that scouts gets is a indication on what CCP wants with the game?
But it's okey to have a different opinion my good sir
Regards Really? Where were you when the logis where the gods among assaults? STFU.
In a gk scout BRO
So one broke as game mechanic validates a other broke game mechanic as a payback? And who are you to say what I can and can not write ?
But hey lets al just STFU because you don't agree on this
Regards
War never changes
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
441
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Posted - 2014.03.27 18:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Piraten Hovnoret wrote:Guys I am a scout and have been for some time now.
I fitted 1000hp (989hp) proto guns proto sidearm, cloaks, RE, nades
On top I have passive scaners/passive rep/dampening/high shield recharge
This is OP in every way there is. Saying anything else is just trolling.
It's not the way the scout is supposed to work in my mind, it should be fast,agile,stealthy but squishy as a balance.
Suggestion:
Make the speed penalty if staking armor ( more 4 scouts ) Make dampening penalty if staking shield and a massive shield recharge rate nerf if staking on a scout Make one of the equipment slots dedicated to cloak
Called it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=149208
Yeah you did bro yes you did
War never changes
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Fire of Prometheus
Alpha Response Command
4081
|
Posted - 2014.03.27 18:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Might I ask what suit the OP runs (and the fitting specs if they wish to disclose such info)
Fare well my commando's fist of god o7
Patron saint of commandos
Ck.0-scout, commando // ak.0- logi (commando soonTM)
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Kara Anschel
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
81
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Louis Domi wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Im all for scouts having a decent role on the field but a scout should not be able to get more hp on a suit and still be faster than the assault suit. Its already really annoying and i dont think its fair. The scout should receive a slightly larger movement penalty On plates they have a smaller suit with fewer augmentations. The mass should affect it more. If you think this is wrong please say. Its open to discussion i just dont want my assault suit made totally redundant. Scouts with a lot of hp die quick, also i agree with a bit added speed penalty for those stacking them armors
In which case you hit assaults too, and scouts would still be the fastest.... this doesn't change anything but make every armor suit slower. |
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Echo 1991
WarRavens League of Infamy
160
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:03:00 -
[51] - Quote
Fire of Prometheus wrote:Might I ask what suit the OP runs (and the fitting specs if they wish to disclose such info) Sure. Atm i have: 2x complex shield extenders 1x enhanced precision enhancer. 3x enhanced plates 1x complex armour rep allotek nanohive Duvolle ar t-12 ion pistol |
Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad.
7788
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Louis Domi wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Im all for scouts having a decent role on the field but a scout should not be able to get more hp on a suit and still be faster than the assault suit. Its already really annoying and i dont think its fair. The scout should receive a slightly larger movement penalty On plates they have a smaller suit with fewer augmentations. The mass should affect it more. If you think this is wrong please say. Its open to discussion i just dont want my assault suit made totally redundant. Scouts with a lot of hp die quick, also i agree with a bit added speed penalty for those stacking them armors If scouts with a lot of HP die quick, then assaults die even quicker.
Because, ya know, less speed, less stamina, easier to detect, worse passive scanning, less CPU/PG, less equipment, etc'.
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
DUST514514
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HYENAKILLER X
WILL FIGHT ANYONE
687
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:14:00 -
[53] - Quote
Without cloaks scouts get smoked. Before 1.8 I ran my gal assault like a scout and rained hell. The real issue is that the big corp guys are all about ftom right now. Good players play well regardless the suit.
Plus scanner nerf didnt help. But in time we will all adapt.
My gal assault is a beast sir. Ill always take gal assault over any scout.
Im not from new eden. I dont need back up, political power or support. I, unlike you dont fear nuetral territory.
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Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1351
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:21:00 -
[54] - Quote
The problem with the fitting of the scouts is this.
Mobius Kaethis wrote:Lets look at this problem by comparing proto suits of the same race. Look at these two fits for the gallente assault and the gallente scout. Both assume that the user has maxed out their skill trees.
Maxed Assault gk.0 Assault gk.0 Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Enhanced Shield Extender Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Federation Duvolle Specialist Assault Rifle
base movement speed of 4.07 m/s total HP: 1188
Maxed Scout gk.0 Scout gk.0 Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Complex Armor Plates Federation Duvolle Specialist Assault Rifle Kaalakiota Magsec SMG Flux Grenade Cloak Field Compact Nanohive
base movement speed of 4.44 m/s total HP: 989
Now, clearly the assault has almost a 200 hp edge but it is slower than the scout, can't hold a side arm, can't hold a grenade, are easier to spot on radar, and can't turn invisible at will. At this point there is no point in running an assault when a scout will clearly make the more effective and versatile killing suit.
Assaults need to have something that makes them preferable to scouts. Currently CCP is trying to provide that incentive through the assault bonuses but those bonuses are too limited in their scope to have much of an impact on game play. A simple way to buff the assault would be to increase either the base HP or the damage but that would make the suit compete with the heavy frames for max HP which is not the point of the suit and might invalidate another class.
Nerfing the scouts ability to stack plates would be another way to make assaults have more of a place on the battle field, doing so by reducing base hp would lead to more people brick tanking (as shown above) which is not desireable. Reducing the CPU and PG of the scout would also necessitate buffing the scout bonus to using cloaks (or they would become unusable).
Honestly I don't know what changes could be made to deal with the lack of a place for assaults on the battle field. I think that changing the assault bonuses would be a start but the changes would need to be pretty radical to make an actual difference. What do you all think. Come on DUST community, there are plenty of smart people out there. How can we make a place for assaults on the battlefiled that isn't simply one of being meat for the meat grinder.
Fun > Realism
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Echo 1991
WarRavens League of Infamy
160
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Posted - 2014.03.27 19:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
HYENAKILLER X wrote:Without cloaks scouts get smoked. Before 1.8 I ran my gal assault like a scout and rained hell. The real issue is that the big corp guys are all about ftom right now. Good players play well regardless the suit.
Plus scanner nerf didnt help. But in time we will all adapt.
My gal assault is a beast sir. Ill always take gal assault over any scout. I love that suit. |
Marc Rime
333
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Posted - 2014.03.27 20:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
Caldari Assault C-I with two complex extenders - 553 (or was it 557) EHP. Caldari Scout ck.0 with four complex extenders - 540 EHP.
They both have two low slots. One is proto, the other isn't. |
Bunny Demon
Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad.
105
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Posted - 2014.03.27 20:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
Technically the armour penalty does affect scouts more because it's a percentage and as they have a higher base speed, more will be taken off |
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