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Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1303	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:51:00 - [1] - Quote CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now.
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 577	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:08:00 - [2] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. Much better and reasonable than nerfing the ehp After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3349	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:19:00 - [3] - Quote This is not the time or place for rational decision making. This is CCP - and this Dust514. I GÖú Kittens.
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 213	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:50:00 - [4] - Quote Heavy weapons and shotguns only. Don't allow any rifles.
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1308	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:58:00 - [5] - Quote Kam Elto wrote: Heavy weapons and shotguns only. Don't allow any rifles. I don't agree, its a suit designed to hold a heavy weapon. No other suit can fit a heavy weapon, lock it to heavy weapons only. If you really want to run a shotgun on a heavy a Galente Commando will fit it and give you a bonus to reload and damage.
castba Penguin's March 351	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:02:00 - [6] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. Logical. +1 to you Sir.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 312	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:06:00 - [7] - Quote I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Yokal Bob G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 418	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:06:00 - [8] - Quote what! fine the rest of the suits can only have weapons and modules tied to their tier suit too. plus have you seen the gallente heavy cpu/pg? it sucks CPM1 candidate I want my logi tank back
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 347	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:08:00 - [9] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. Passes with my approval. Finally someone who came up with a reasonable solution to RR fatsuit scrubs. What OP said about commando suits for light weapons now is 100% true, that's what they're for. +1 Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1309	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:09:00 - [10] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 So a scout should be able to fit HMG then, right?

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 312	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:10:00 - [11] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 So a scout should be able to fit HMG then, right? I been asking for a Forge gun with wheels for a while now. I want my Scout CK.0 to ride it into battle. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1309	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:11:00 - [12] - Quote Yokal Bob wrote: what! fine the rest of the suits can only have weapons and modules tied to their tier suit too. plus have you seen the gallente heavy cpu/pg? it sucks I haven't seen the gallente heavy CPU/PG. It sounds like CCP needs to take a careful look at the values for all heavy suits and make sure they match up with the appropriate loadouts for the level of suit.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2205	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:16:00 - [13] - Quote Turn speed. For the Federation!
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 251	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:25:00 - [14] - Quote A gallante scout cam have over 800 ehp and CCP is worried about the heavy? Really? Scout are OP now with all that ehp and clocking.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2207	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:36:00 - [15] - Quote The Terminator T-1000 wrote: A gallante scout cam have over 800 ehp and CCP is worried about the heavy? Really? Scout are OP now with all that ehp and clocking. The novelty will wear off, also that's a pretty bad Scout it's super slow and has no ewar. Might kill you but you can rest assured your team (whom you should be running with) will obliterate him. For the Federation!
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 576	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:39:00 - [16] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. The only thing I can disagree with is the following line: "Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear." The CPU should be even less than that. This option does not completely solve the problem of: "I do not have to make hard choices in my fittings". What it does it change the situation from "All heavies have easy fittings" to "Proto heavies have easy fittings". Since Proto is the only competitive option for any class, you haven't solve the problem fully. Moreover, no suit can fill all of its slots with all prototype gear, even at the prototype level. Heavies should not be the exception to this rule. They too should have to choose between A complex damage mod and a proto plate. TL:DR - If sentinels get a CPU/PG reduction (with I now agree with), it should prevent any tier from filling all of its slots with proto mods. DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1312	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:43:00 - [17] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: The only thing I can disagree with is the following line: "Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear." The CPU should be even less than that. This option does not completely solve the problem of: "I do not have to make hard choices in my fittings". What it does it change the situation from "All heavies have easy fittings" to "Proto heavies have easy fittings". Since Proto is the only competitive option for any class, you haven't solve the problem fully. Moreover, no suit can fill all of its slots with all prototype gear, even at the prototype level. Heavies should not be the exception to this rule. They too should have to choose between A complex damage mod and a proto plate. TL:DR - If sentinels get a CPU/PG reduction (with I now agree with), it should prevent any tier from filling all of its slots with proto mods. A proto suit with maxed skills should be able to fit proto everything, this should be the basis for the CPU/PG of the proto frame. This should require the optimization skills too. All other tiers should force fitting sacrifices.
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1313	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:48:00 - [18] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Turn speed. If they are never going to make the shotgun a true alpha weapon, then heavy turn speed should be reduced slightly. Its a heavy with a heavy weapon, it should take a little longer to swing it around.
Piercing Serenity Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 576	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:59:00 - [19] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: Piercing Serenity wrote: The only thing I can disagree with is the following line: "Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear." The CPU should be even less than that. This option does not completely solve the problem of: "I do not have to make hard choices in my fittings". What it does it change the situation from "All heavies have easy fittings" to "Proto heavies have easy fittings". Since Proto is the only competitive option for any class, you haven't solve the problem fully. Moreover, no suit can fill all of its slots with all prototype gear, even at the prototype level. Heavies should not be the exception to this rule. They too should have to choose between A complex damage mod and a proto plate. TL:DR - If sentinels get a CPU/PG reduction (with I now agree with), it should prevent any tier from filling all of its slots with proto mods. A proto suit with maxed skills should be able to fit proto everything, this should be the basis for the CPU/PG of the proto frame. This should require the optimization skills too. All other tiers should force fitting sacrifices. I disagree. No suit, regardless of tier, should not have to make any sacrifices. That notion largely detracts from the Risk/Reward/Efficiency of DUST (How much power and utility can I get out of this sacrifice as opposed to that one), Moreover, it is an affront to what makes New Eden the place that it is: Nothing is easy, and every choice - Fitting choices, in this case - has consequence DUST 514 BETA VET 16.2M Lifetime SP SH4T --> PFBHz --> PFB --> SH4T --> Fatal
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1314	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:16:00 - [20] - Quote This seems like a really expensive fit to run in pubs. Is there a cheaper way to get 80-90% of that effectiveness? I'd love to run full proto, but until I can get a good group together that I know will have injectors, I just can't afford to lose more than 2 proto suits in a match. My 'Templar Sentinel gets about 85% of the performance of the proto one and is less than 1/10 of the cost.

Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 356	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:25:00 - [21] - Quote I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements....if there was a heavy weapon with this capability I would be all for it but as it stands no....and CCP has already said that this isn't likely to happen until other heavy weapons are introduced So you people have had your answer deal with it Real heavies use lasers
TheDarthMa94 The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 190	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:27:00 - [22] - Quote CCP is too lazy to do that..... Sith Apprentice and Director of NAO "Corp leaders boost corp members morale, morale is a key to victory"
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 581	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:29:00 - [23] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 there's a commando suit that you can use for that u fool After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1977	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:35:00 - [24] - Quote I agree with this post.
Joel II X Dah Gods O Bacon 1979	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:40:00 - [25] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements....if there was a heavy weapon with this capability I would be all for it but as it stands no....and CCP has already said that this isn't likely to happen until other heavy weapons are introduced So you people have had your answer deal with it Commando. You also have sidearms.
Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 124	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:54:00 - [26] - Quote castba wrote: Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. Logical. +1 to you Sir. Wow on the reduction of heavy ehp. Especially since scouts can two shot every heavy suit with a shotgun other than a fully armored proto Gallente heavy sentinel. Lol. CCP sure knows how to nerf this game to sh!t. Oh, and CCP while you're at it, please nerf the forge guns some more on damage. I think 4 shots to destroy a militia tank with 4 complex damage mods is too generous. CCP = Contantly Creating Poop
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 581	Posted - 2014.03.26 17:36:00 - [27] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Turn speed. maybe a bit decrease in the heavies turn speed After Uprisings release the forums were a bad place, I'll never forget how CCP screwed up so badly.
castba Penguin's March 352	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:22:00 - [28] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Turn speed. No . Heavies already have slower turn speed when using heavy weapons. Slow it down more and all anyone needs to do to take down a heavy front on is left-right strafe. Scouts can actually run around a DS3 heavy now. Dunno about a kb/m heavy.
castba Penguin's March 352	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:25:00 - [29] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements....if there was a heavy weapon with this capability I would be all for it but as it stands no....and CCP has already said that this isn't likely to happen until other heavy weapons are introduced So you people have had your answer deal with it So instead of proto sentinel, go advanced and advanced commando. I believe they call that "planning".
Rums McCuUladh The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 108	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:37:00 - [30] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements. lol as a long time dedicated Heavy, that is how I have been playing Dust since I 1st started this game. Using vehicles helps!

Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2423	Posted - 2014.03.26 23:51:00 - [31] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The Terminator T-1000 wrote: A gallante scout cam have over 800 ehp and CCP is worried about the heavy? Really? Scout are OP now with all that ehp and clocking. The novelty will wear off, also that's a pretty bad Scout it's super slow and has no ewar. Might kill you but you can rest assured your team (whom you should be running with) will obliterate him. Yes, because a scout that's as tough as my assault and faster than me is definitely a bad scout. ak.0 4 LYFE Guess who's butthurt about light-assaults!? <------This guy!!
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1020	Posted - 2014.03.27 01:33:00 - [32] - Quote This. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Shruikan Iceeye 0uter.Heaven 176	Posted - 2014.03.27 01:37:00 - [33] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements....if there was a heavy weapon with this capability I would be all for it but as it stands no....and CCP has already said that this isn't likely to happen until other heavy weapons are introduced THIS Pass The A/1 Sauce
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 584	Posted - 2014.03.27 01:49:00 - [34] - Quote Shruikan Iceeye wrote: Shadow Archeus wrote: I agree with 1 Not with two......and here's why.....imaging you have just enough sp to proto out the sentinel suit and hmg and forge.....that's all you have Now drop into a map with a lot of open terrain and you have a seriously screwed heavy.....he can either pray his enemies sit still long enough to get a hit with a forge or pray he can get in range with his hmg....there's no choice for medium range engagements....if there was a heavy weapon with this capability I would be all for it but as it stands no....and CCP has already said that this isn't likely to happen until other heavy weapons are introduced THIS Well it's just the heavy slot that he proposes to be locked for heavy weapons only, the side arm will still be there and we heavies can deal with having the side arm to deal with for ranged defense and offense. Don't nerf heavies, instead do This
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 808	Posted - 2014.03.27 02:45:00 - [35] - Quote I can get behind this. I think it will also address a number of issues instead of just boiling the current problem down to heavies have too much ehp. Looking for the scout hangout?
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 378	Posted - 2014.03.27 03:00:00 - [36] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: A proto suit with maxed skills should be able to fit proto everything, this should be the basis for the CPU/PG of the proto frame. This should require the optimization skills too. All other tiers should force fitting sacrifices. I disagree. But the important thing is to focus on our point of agreement, which is that the fittings for all heavy suits are currently way, way too high. I almost maxed all my fitting skills a couple months ago, and now I almost have enough fitting left over after decking out my proto sentinel to tack on an additional cloaking device (if I had an equipment slot to do so). Limiting the heavy slot to heavy weapons is short-sighted. If rail rifle heavies really are a problem, perhaps we should consider what will happen when heavies get longer-range anti-personnel heavy weapons. Maybe we should be considering balance and functionality with a longer view in mind that considers what's coming down the road, instead of jumping at short-term solutions that will just cause more grief down the line. You would also have to be okay with locking light weapon slots to light weapons only, or justify allowing sidearms in light weapon slots but not light weapons in heavy weapon slots. Also, I'm not against a reduction in HP, but an instant 20% reduction across the board is a terrible idea. Take a 10% reduction and see how it goes. If it really didn't solve whatever problem you were looking at, go ahead and take the other 10%. And if it solved it for some heavy suits but others are still overpowered, don't be afraid to rebalance them a little. And if you find 10% was a little too much, at least you haven't gimped them. We're okay if it takes two or three steps to get to a good balance. Just don't do more than three adjustments or people will get upset and tell you to quit messing with their suits. The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
843 nerfnut96 BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 225	Posted - 2014.03.27 03:08:00 - [37] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 Um... That "heavy armor" is a commando suit.... Capt. Nerfnut96 // Ranking Officer // War Director // Burgezz ETF
castba Penguin's March 354	Posted - 2014.03.27 04:14:00 - [38] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 But this is not about the Commando
LT Dans Legs Bullet Cluster 324	Posted - 2014.03.27 07:03:00 - [39] - Quote Come on this is CCP. They don't think very well. They have no sense or idea of what the word balance even means. To Live Is To Die
RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 750	Posted - 2014.03.27 08:29:00 - [40] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. afaik, Trashmatar weapons take least fittings,... Which is why ATM there can be full proto fits Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy

xSir Campsalotx G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 172	Posted - 2014.03.27 08:40:00 - [41] - Quote Look at proto Amarr assualt proto mods (all) 3x dmg mods 3 plates pro hive and pro scrambler basic sub not all but damn close G0DS AM0NG MEN Director 1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 2212	Posted - 2014.03.27 10:14:00 - [42] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: The Terminator T-1000 wrote: A gallante scout cam have over 800 ehp and CCP is worried about the heavy? Really? Scout are OP now with all that ehp and clocking. The novelty will wear off, also that's a pretty bad Scout it's super slow and has no ewar. Might kill you but you can rest assured your team (whom you should be running with) will obliterate him. Yes, because a scout that's as tough as my assault and faster than me is definitely a bad scout. There is no way a scout can get more HP than your Assault this is just rumor and QQ your Assault suit has 1 extra high and/or low and twice the base HP that means that equally stacked you should have around 200 more HP than him. The scout only remains 8-10% faster than you but that is never going to change. Also that scout can barely fit a cloak and if it can it's weapons will be pretty beta. Also brick tanking isn't a scout problem it is a general problem caused by terrible module balance and nothing better than plates/extenders to equip. For the Federation!
Orin the Freak The Solecism of Limitation 738	Posted - 2014.03.27 11:54:00 - [43] - Quote I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more balanced. Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :(
Outlaw OneZero Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1345	Posted - 2014.03.27 12:57:00 - [44] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: Limiting the heavy slot to heavy weapons is short-sighted. If rail rifle heavies really are a problem, perhaps we should consider what will happen when heavies get longer-range anti-personnel heavy weapons. Maybe we should be considering balance and functionality with a longer view in mind that considers what's coming down the road, instead of jumping at short-term solutions that will just cause more grief down the line. You would also have to be okay with locking light weapon slots to light weapons only, or justify allowing sidearms in light weapon slots but not light weapons in heavy weapon slots. Actually I was looking at this from a longer perspective. Trying to balance the EHP of Sentinels without locking the heavy weapon slot becomes very difficult. You have to consider all of the different weapon types and ranges instead of a small number of heavy weapons. If the slot is locked, then future heavy weapons introduce a small number of variables in the Tank/Gank equation of heavies. Right now there are no hard choices. If I want to have 1700HP and a proto medium range weapon (literally ANY proto rifle), I can do that on an advanced Amarr sentinel AND most of those rifles are good in CQC too. I do have to make sacrifices in mobility, hit box and EWAR, but those seem to be far less significant than pure HP and damage output over range. It might even be a good idea to just introduce a fitting penalty for light weapons in the heavy slot rather than lock it completely. Say the suit isn't optimized for that type of weapon and incurs a 20-40% fitting cost increase. That way you create a decision point that might make assault or commando a more attractive option for light weapon usage.
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 586	Posted - 2014.03.27 15:30:00 - [45] - Quote Orin the Freak wrote: I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more . Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :( The HMG does not need to be nerfed at all, it could do with a bit on increase in its range. But one thing CCP could do is add a sort of charge up time to the HMG, holding down the fire button will make the barrel rotate for a second and after that it starts to fire. Maybe though, I would only like that though if they increased the range Don't nerf heavies, instead do This
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 459	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:24:00 - [46] - Quote heavy here. totaly this. i can proto the crap out of my std suit and it makes me feel dirty. agree with the weapon lock no lights on sentinals theres no reason for them to be able to carry them and just leads to scrubs abusing the suit. ccp you broke the forge. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 459	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:27:00 - [47] - Quote da GAND wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more . Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :( The HMG does not need to be nerfed at all, it could do with a bit on increase in its range. But one thing CCP could do is add a sort of charge up time to the HMG, holding down the fire button will make the barrel rotate for a second and after that it starts to fire. Maybe though, I would only like that though if they increased the range use an assualt hmg =) ccp you broke the forge. skills are not being applied till 30 secs after spawn fixes before nerfs thank you.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 381	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:27:00 - [48] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: Goric Rumis wrote: Limiting the heavy slot to heavy weapons is short-sighted. If rail rifle heavies really are a problem, perhaps we should consider what will happen when heavies get longer-range anti-personnel heavy weapons. Maybe we should be considering balance and functionality with a longer view in mind that considers what's coming down the road, instead of jumping at short-term solutions that will just cause more grief down the line. You would also have to be okay with locking light weapon slots to light weapons only, or justify allowing sidearms in light weapon slots but not light weapons in heavy weapon slots. Actually I was looking at this from a longer perspective. Trying to balance the EHP of Sentinels without locking the heavy weapon slot becomes very difficult. You have to consider all of the different weapon types and ranges instead of a small number of heavy weapons. If the slot is locked, then future heavy weapons introduce a small number of variables in the Tank/Gank equation of heavies. Right now there are no hard choices. If I want to have 1700HP and a proto medium range weapon (literally ANY proto rifle), I can do that on an advanced Amarr sentinel AND most of those rifles are good in CQC too. I do have to make sacrifices in mobility, hit box and EWAR, but those seem to be far less significant than pure HP and damage output over range. It might even be a good idea to just introduce a fitting penalty for light weapons in the heavy slot rather than lock it completely. Say the suit isn't optimized for that type of weapon and incurs a 20-40% fitting cost increase. That way you create a decision point that might make assault or commando a more attractive option for light weapon usage. I like the fitting penalty suggestion. It makes sense and doesn't place the kind of hard, artificial limitation people on these forums seem so eager about. Of course, to make that penalty meaningful you'd have to lower the current fitting capacities first. The Tank Balancing Factor No One Is Discussing
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 599	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:31:00 - [49] - Quote boba's fetta wrote: da GAND wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more . Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :( The HMG does not need to be nerfed at all, it could do with a bit on increase in its range. But one thing CCP could do is add a sort of charge up time to the HMG, holding down the fire button will make the barrel rotate for a second and after that it starts to fire. Maybe though, I would only like that though if they increased the range use an assualt hmg =) already did, not much of a difference though. Don't nerf heavies, instead do This
KenKaniff69 Fatal Absolution 2263	Posted - 2014.03.28 03:46:00 - [50] - Quote Nicely put Outlaw The problem with tanks

Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 93	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:35:00 - [51] - Quote I like the jib of your jab about the PG/CPU OP, but I locking heavies down to only two situational weapons is a little too rough in my opinion; at least until more heavy weapons are released.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2693	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:43:00 - [52] - Quote Heavys dont need a nerf. They are allready punished enough by scouts dancing around them with shotguns. And 2-3 shotgun hits and the heavy is dead so what is the problem here? That hes actually now capable to defend himself? I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
KING CHECKMATE Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 4875	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:48:00 - [53] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: CCP please hold off on the reduction of Heavy EHP. Heavy EHP is not the problem with the heavy suit, it is supposed to be a meatshield and it is finally fulfilling this purpose. Here are 2 things that are actually wrong with heavy suits that you should look at instead. 1. Heavy CPU/PG is too high. I can fit a full proto tank and a proto HMG on a standard Amarr Sentinel frame. I can almost fit full proto in every slot on an advanced Amarr Sentinel frame (adv sidearm). I have invested nothing in my weapons fitting optimization skills to do this. No other suit has this amount of fitting. I really don't have to make any hard choices when it comes to fitting a Setinel suit. In fact I have so much CPU/PG left over on my proto Amarr Sentinel I feel like I'm being cheated. Reduce the CPU/PG of these suits so that only the proto sentinel frame can fit all proto gear. The commando is in a much better place, I really have to think about whether I want to fit tank or gank on those suits as I can't do both. 2. Lock the heavy weapon slot to heavy weapons. Yes, I know there are only 2 right now. The commando suit allows for a heavy frame to fit light weapons, the sentinel no longer needs to provide this option. With 600+HP scouts and 800+HP Assaults and Logis running around in the game a reduction of heavy suit EHP makes no sense. Particularly considering most of the playerbase seems to be pretty happy with them as they are now. Im not a Med frame user, and as such i am not scared of the challenge. Im a scout, and as one: +1 my fat friend. Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 94	Posted - 2014.04.06 23:53:00 - [54] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Heavys dont need a nerf. They are allready punished enough by scouts dancing around them with shotguns. And 2-3 shotgun hits and the heavy is dead so what is the problem here? That hes actually now capable to defend himself? If you ask me, they need a nerf here to get a buff to something else, like marginally better resistances/pivot speed/immediate area sensors. Plus all that PG/CPU is basically pointless, we have heavy weapons but not, heavy, modules.... The creation of Heavy Class Modules actually sounds like a great idea to really give them that over-powered feel.
TunRa Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 536	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:06:00 - [55] - Quote Outlaw OneZero wrote: Kam Elto wrote: Heavy weapons and shotguns only. Don't allow any rifles. I don't agree, its a suit designed to hold a heavy weapon. No other suit can fit a heavy weapon, lock it to heavy weapons only. If you really want to run a shotgun on a heavy a Galente Commando will fit it and give you a bonus to reload and damage. How do you explain that lore wise? His fingers are to fat? Thanks CCP Foxfour Likes received: 514
TunRa Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 536	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:09:00 - [56] - Quote da GAND wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more . Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :( The HMG does not need to be nerfed at all, it could do with a bit on increase in its range. But one thing CCP could do is add a sort of charge up time to the HMG, holding down the fire button will make the barrel rotate for a second and after that it starts to fire. Maybe though, I would only like that though if they increased the range If you read the description of the HMG you would know why your suggestion is stupid. It's like you guys completely ignore the fact this isn't just an FPS but a FPS with a deep back story and lore. Thanks CCP Foxfour Likes received: 514
da GAND L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 708	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:17:00 - [57] - Quote TunRa wrote: da GAND wrote: Orin the Freak wrote: I agree with both of these points. As a matter of fact, I was discussing this earlier with some friends. Instead of nerfing EHP (Heavies are SUPPOSED to be walking meat walls!) I brought up maybe a slight damage nerf to the HMG. My friends then said "well then expect to see more heavies using Rail Rifles and AR's". Which made me think, just make the H slot restricted to ONLY heavy weapons. THEN I began to think about that. What if anything lighter than a heavy weapon in the H slot got dramatically reduced accuracy? Or, just make it H only, no matter how illogical that may be, it seems more . Then if you wanna play with light weapons, play a commando :) not a far stretch, only a few thousand SP to get into a basic commando. I like it. But the HMG still absolutely destroys everything. Best weapon + most EHP = massively powerful. but... shotguns.. :( The HMG does not need to be nerfed at all, it could do with a bit on increase in its range. But one thing CCP could do is add a sort of charge up time to the HMG, holding down the fire button will make the barrel rotate for a second and after that it starts to fire. Maybe though, I would only like that though if they increased the range If you read the description of the HMG you would know why your suggestion is stupid. It's like you guys completely ignore the fact this isn't just an FPS but a FPS with a deep back story and lore. hmmmm you may be right *******, but I know that this game has a deep story and lore. I was following EVE before I heard about Dust 514. Don't nerf heavies, instead do This
Bax Zanith 104	Posted - 2014.04.07 00:48:00 - [58] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I'm just going to leave this here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=n_LlH2c5dyA#t=76 This is why I don't like suggested fix number 2. I feel it just heavily subtracts from the customization aspect and brings us closer to being a mundane shooter like COD or battle field. Sadly I can't think of aa good reason to keep the heavy weapon slot as it is, after all, we do have commandos. As much as I don't like the second fix idea, its logical. Suggested fix #1 I fully support. My advanced Amarr sentinel, with mostly advanced stuff on it, has almost used half its total CPU/PG. Those who think our CPU/PG shouldn't be nerfed, I think I understand what your feeling; you fear the hammer will nerf us too much, to the point where will be like the flaylock. CCP is good at over nuerfing and buffing, so yes, I'm just as scared as you are. I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
RA Drahcir Inner.Hell 341	Posted - 2014.04.07 07:41:00 - [59] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Look at proto Amarr assualt proto mods (all) 3x dmg mods 3 plates pro hive and pro scrambler basic sub not all but damn close No, Amarr assault needs more PG to do that.


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