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Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 469	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:00:00 - [1] - Quote Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. All that needs to be done is to make a scout look more visible while standing still, not invisible. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 692	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:01:00 - [2] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING*, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you. The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. All that needs to be done is to make a scout look more visible while standing still, not invisible. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. Umm, no I use the stand still thing for when enemies are passing or stuff like that... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 1377	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:07:00 - [3] - Quote So, when I sit, cloak up to wait for a bunch of enemies to pass before getting behind them and shooting in the back is a bad habit and is considered camping? Anyone who just sits on an objective with the cloak active is an idiot for wasting their cloak charge and not using it to its fullest use. I use it mainly for when I want to pass huge open grounds without having to worry about snipers(even the max blue shimmer is kind of hard to shoot at when you're shooting hundreds of meters away), and hiding from large groups that would have otherwise spotted me if I was uncloaked. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Mar. 22nd
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 770	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:10:00 - [4] - Quote Honey boo boo...the solution is simple...scan areas with your reticle and watch for red. You have to pay attention now, you have to scan an objective before you go for the hack. Change your ways or meet an untimely demise, ewar is coming. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 471	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:10:00 - [5] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: So, when I sit, cloak up to wait for a bunch of enemies to pass before getting behind them and shooting in the back is a bad habit and is considered camping? Anyone who just sits on an objective with the cloak active is an idiot for wasting their cloak charge and not using it to its fullest use. I use it mainly for when I want to pass huge open grounds without having to worry about snipers(even the max blue shimmer is kind of hard to shoot at when you're shooting hundreds of meters away), and hiding from large groups that would have otherwise spotted me if I was uncloaked. This fix wouldn't affect you then. My suggestion was to keep the cloak visibility the same or to be even better while moving, and make it less viable for players that would rather camp with it. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 471	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:13:00 - [6] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Honey boo boo...the solution is simple...scan areas with your reticle and watch for red. You have to pay attention now, you have to scan an objective before you go for the hack. Change your ways or meet an untimely demise, ewar is coming. Running dampeners with a cloak activated makes you unscannable. Your reticle isn't going to turn red unless you pass it slowing over every crevice and corner that a cloaked scout can be hiding in. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
The Terminator T-1000 Skynet Incorporated 250	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:13:00 - [7] - Quote I also do not like the fact that they are invisible
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 4929	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:19:00 - [8] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. All that needs to be done is to make a scout look more visible while standing still, not invisible. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmsxmpHf9sc We spent months brainstorming ways for this not to happen, and then CCP made it happen exactly like what happened in Planetside 2. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 770	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:19:00 - [9] - Quote Arirana wrote: COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Honey boo boo...the solution is simple...scan areas with your reticle and watch for red. You have to pay attention now, you have to scan an objective before you go for the hack. Change your ways or meet an untimely demise, ewar is coming. Running dampeners with a cloak activated makes you unscannable. Your reticle isn't going to turn red unless you pass it slowing over every crevice and corner that a cloaked scout can be hiding in. Then you need to squad with a Gallogi. it's not that hard to quickly survey a room before hacking. Proud Minmatar scout - Republic Merc 7/10 Immune to bitter/jaded vet syndrome Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL - eWar Merc
DEZKA DIABLO 0uter.Heaven 525	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:20:00 - [10] - Quote Arirana wrote: Denak Kalamari wrote: So, when I sit, cloak up to wait for a bunch of enemies to pass before getting behind them and shooting in the back is a bad habit and is considered camping? Anyone who just sits on an objective with the cloak active is an idiot for wasting their cloak charge and not using it to its fullest use. I use it mainly for when I want to pass huge open grounds without having to worry about snipers(even the max blue shimmer is kind of hard to shoot at when you're shooting hundreds of meters away), and hiding from large groups that would have otherwise spotted me if I was uncloaked. This fix wouldn't affect you then. My suggestion was to keep the cloak visibility the same or to be even better while moving, and make it less viable for players that would rather camp with it. Aaaaahaaaha king exploited got camped! AWESOME, and no ! I got stuck in several situations , getting chased on a cat walk or open field, and I cloaked and stayed sill they gave up, then I killed them, working as intended. Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!

Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 472	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:23:00 - [11] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Then you need to squad with a Gallogi. it's not that hard to quickly survey a room before hacking. Here you are, with a cloak activated on this fit the scout reaches 13db, the most powerful scanner in the hands of a galogi can only scan 15db and above. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2379	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:23:00 - [12] - Quote This isn't a problem. The only real issue with cloaks is how fast on can go from cloaked to shooting. There should be a delay before you can fire. Or better yet, you should have to manually decloak before you can switch to your weapon. People that complain about "camping" in an objective and team based shooter are hilarious BTW. There are no campers here, only defenders. Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet Gallente Neutron Rifle
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 472	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:26:00 - [13] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: This isn't a problem. The only real issue with cloaks is how fast on can go from cloaked to shooting. There should be a delay before you can fire. Or better yet, you should have to manually decloak before you can switch to your weapon. People that complain about "camping" in an objective and team based shooter are hilarious BTW. There are no campers here, only defenders. I'm not against defending an objective, only the fact that cloaks make you entirely undetectable until you decide to uncloak. It makes taking an objective next to impossible for any less then a full squad. Is it even FUN? To sit there and wait? Wouldn't it be more fun if the cloak was better when you were running, so that you can experience the superior speed your suit takes pride in? I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1878	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:32:00 - [14] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. All that needs to be done is to make a scout look more visible while standing still, not invisible. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. I agree with you in the sense that the cloak does tend to support a camping style of gameplay. Not sure what the answer is here because the peeps who point out that the cloak as currently implemented does work well in avoiding groups while repositioning. First thing that comes to mind is an anti-camping mechanic where if you're cloaked and stationary for more than 15 seconds your cloak field starts to produce visual/audio artifacts. I'm sure there are better ideas out there, but this is the kind of mechanic that would serve good gameplay best. I support SP rollover.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 474	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:34:00 - [15] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I agree with you in the sense that the cloak does tend to support a camping style of gameplay. Not sure what the answer is here because the peeps who point out that the cloak as currently implemented does work well in avoiding groups while repositioning. First thing that comes to mind is an anti-camping mechanic where if you're cloaked and stationary for more than 15 seconds your cloak field starts to produce visual/audio artifacts. I'm sure there are better ideas out there, but this is the kind of mechanic that would serve good gameplay best. I was also thinking similar ideas. Such as, the longer you stand still, the rate at which your cloak consumes energy accelerates. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1878	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:35:00 - [16] - Quote Arirana wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: This isn't a problem. The only real issue with cloaks is how fast on can go from cloaked to shooting. There should be a delay before you can fire. Or better yet, you should have to manually decloak before you can switch to your weapon. People that complain about "camping" in an objective and team based shooter are hilarious BTW. There are no campers here, only defenders. I'm not against defending an objective, only the fact that cloaks make you entirely undetectable until you decide to uncloak. It makes taking an objective next to impossible for any less then a full squad. Is it even FUN? To sit there and wait? Wouldn't it be more fun if the cloak was better when you were running, so that you can experience the superior speed your suit takes pride in? What if the cloak worked only while you were moving but gave somewhat better invisibility than currently? I support SP rollover.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1171	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:36:00 - [17] - Quote Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1171	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:37:00 - [18] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Arirana wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: This isn't a problem. The only real issue with cloaks is how fast on can go from cloaked to shooting. There should be a delay before you can fire. Or better yet, you should have to manually decloak before you can switch to your weapon. People that complain about "camping" in an objective and team based shooter are hilarious BTW. There are no campers here, only defenders. I'm not against defending an objective, only the fact that cloaks make you entirely undetectable until you decide to uncloak. It makes taking an objective next to impossible for any less then a full squad. Is it even FUN? To sit there and wait? Wouldn't it be more fun if the cloak was better when you were running, so that you can experience the superior speed your suit takes pride in? What if the cloak worked only while you were moving but gave somewhat better invisibility than currently? You could still move in a corner It's fine as is.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 677	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:40:00 - [19] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding then moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. Naw, you got it all wrong there. That's the point of a scout, surprise and ambush. I mean hell, they only need a few shots to drop, and by ambushing someone they must DECLOAK. I've noticed a lot of good players adapting to it already, running around corners and spraying them down just in case. And not to mention they still light your crosshairs up when you hover over them. I've seen nothing OVERPOWERED about them, the shimmer gives you away while moving, and even by standing still you aren't fully safe and invisible. But it does give scouts the advantage they have been in need of for a LONG time. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 474	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:42:00 - [20] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout The caldari scout can only get their scan precision to about 15 db, the same as the galogi with a focused scanner. Precision enhanders only work for passive scans, so they don't make active scanners stronger if anyone had that wild idea. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2286 Gal scouts can become unscannable with max skills, 1 dampener and a cloak, as I've stated in the OP. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.

fragmentedhackslash Arrogance. 215	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:42:00 - [21] - Quote That ringing in the ears for a few seconds and the world goes deathly silent as you HEAD SHOT with a Charge rifle a cloaked speed scout running through shimmer at 598 meters range. PRICELESS. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1646	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:44:00 - [22] - Quote No ***. It does make more sense to have the cloak shimmer when standing still. It can be explained through in-game lore. Makes sense to reward player involvement and reward scouts for being a scout and not a cheap afk move. Although, I would use it for the good of the game when I step away to refresh my scotch. "Stay stealthy scouts."* GÇô Ron Burgundy
jerrmy12 kahoalii 692	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:45:00 - [23] - Quote fragmentedhackslash wrote: That ringing in the ears for a few seconds and the world goes deathly silent as you HEAD SHOT with a Charge rifle a cloaked speed scout running through shimmer at 598 meters range. PRICELESS. See my sig Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1880	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:45:00 - [24] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout Last night i was solo-defending an objective in an advanced galscout. No cloak but cplx damper and enhancer and lvl 5 suit. Was able to see packs of 3 & 4 of them coming. It was godly and felt a little OP tbh, biggest limitation was ammo. I support SP rollover.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 692	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:46:00 - [25] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: No ****. It does make more sense to have the cloak shimmer when standing still. It can be explained through in-game lore. Makes sense to reward player involvement and reward scouts for being a scout and not a cheap afk move. Although, I would use it for the good of the game when I step away to refresh my scotch. Well when there are 12 ene ies near me I need to stay until I see an opening to go... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Heavenly Daughter the Aurum Grinder and Company 344	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:46:00 - [26] - Quote I agree impart that the cloaks seem a little too good, but disagree that a person standing still should still be visible. no point in a cloak if you can be seen. The Organ Grinder & Co. EVE Heavenly Daughter-Merc Records
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1178	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:47:00 - [27] - Quote Arirana wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout The caldari scout can only get their scan precision to about 15 db, the same as the galogi with a focused scanner. Precision enhanders only work for passive scans, so they don't make active scanners stronger if anyone had that wild idea. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2286 Gal scouts can become unscannable with max skills, 1 dampener and a cloak, as I've stated in the OP. Gal scouts should be hard to scan, however the majority of scouts show up on my passive scans and about 50% show up when cloaked. Also the decloak noise is super loud, I've turned around and killed scout sneaking up on my because of it.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 474	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:48:00 - [28] - Quote Heavenly Daughter wrote: I agree impart that the cloaks seem a little too good, but disagree that a person standing still should still be visible. no point in a cloak if you can be seen. Being invisible is never a good mechanic unless the person invisible is rendered completely blind. Cloaks should operate to make you harder to see, not impossible to see. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1646	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:48:00 - [29] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: No ***. It does make more sense to have the cloak shimmer when standing still. It can be explained through in-game lore. Makes sense to reward player involvement and reward scouts for being a scout and not a cheap afk move. Although, I would use it for the good of the game when I step away to refresh my scotch. Well when there are 12 ene ies near me I need to stay until I see an opening to go... It would be better that you could keep moving to get past enemies than to have to stand still and wait for them to go away. "Stay stealthy scouts."* GÇô Ron Burgundy
fragmentedhackslash Arrogance. 216	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 - [30] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout Last night i was solo-defending an objective in an advanced galscout. No cloak but cplx damper and enhancer and lvl 5 suit. Was able to see packs of 3 & 4 of them coming. It was godly and felt a little OP tbh, biggest limitation was ammo. If you are out of ammo and you are 60 meters into their redline hacking their ground spawn CRU, you are doing your job properly. Pain is just weakness leaving your body. Every day is a holiday. Every meal is a feast.

Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 286	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 - [31] - Quote Arirana wrote: EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. Nope, we have known for a long time you're a dirty, no skill camper and expoiter who just looks for cheap/easy kills to stat pad. But seriously, this is apparently a team game, where you are meant to run in squads blah blah blah - that's what i get told all the time, blah, blah, blah. So..... if a lone infantryman comes to your objective - that's his fault for not bringing (at the least) someone to watch his back whilst he hacks - that's the risk HE takes for being a lone wolf assaulting an enemy controlled objective with no backup.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar 1179	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:49:00 - [32] - Quote Arirana wrote: Heavenly Daughter wrote: I agree impart that the cloaks seem a little too good, but disagree that a person standing still should still be visible. no point in a cloak if you can be seen. Being invisible is never a good mechanic unless the person invisible is rendered completely blind. Cloaks should operate to make you harder to see, not impossible to see. They DO make you harder to see, not invisible. Use your eyes mabey?
Rei Shepard The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 1636	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:56:00 - [33] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 (a fit that is unscannable, invisible, and costs about 37k) The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding then moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. umm ...so all those matches where i went into and had 15 people from my side in my own redzone "CAMPING" with a sniper rifle, those guys where "playing" the game ? But the guy who is on the front field, in a corner with a tactical advantage so that he can blindside a couple of guys is not playing the game? Ive been killed 2 times on a whole day of playing by scouts with cloaks & shotguns..thats a whole lot less then the times ive been offed by a redline sniper rifle, at least with the scouts if they miss i can return fire...with the rifle ....yeah ...no... Maybe fix redline first, its been there for like ...always ... Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!" "Accuracy"
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1881	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:00:00 - [34] - Quote It's early days yet, we'll have to play and see how things evolve, but my money's on Ariana being right on this. It's the same kind of mechanic as the in-match passive sp trickle: it rewards passive gameplay. The more mechanics like that there are the more DUST gamplay suffers. P.S. Ha! that's some timing Rei - we both made the passive sp/redline analogy at the same time =) I support SP rollover.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 693	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:02:00 - [35] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: No ****. It does make more sense to have the cloak shimmer when standing still. It can be explained through in-game lore. Makes sense to reward player involvement and reward scouts for being a scout and not a cheap afk move. Although, I would use it for the good of the game when I step away to refresh my scotch. Well when there are 12 ene ies near me I need to stay until I see an opening to go... It would be better that you could keep moving to get past enemies than to have to stand still and wait for them to go away. Well I cant move because there is too much shimmer Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Vyuru Algintal Core Gallente Federation 38	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:08:00 - [36] - Quote Just simply.... No. Frankly, I think cloaks are working perfectly. Hey, if you know a cloaked scout is in the area, you might want to bring along a squad mate and actually work together. Although if I'm the cloaked scout, I'm going to shoot your eyes first while you hack. Assuming of course, you make it to the objective. I don't camp, I roam so that I can see who is coming, how many, and where/when to set my trap.
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2739	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:13:00 - [37] - Quote Uh no its called defense nothing wrong in camping, simple room clearing practises remove the problem complety, im sorry you dont like camping but just like in battlefield4 its a none issue and an important part of the defensive stratergy. Dust514 is not cod, anyone camping is not pushing the point and in my mind thats an acceptable trade off. In my view bar maybe a slighty faster decloke animation they got it right for once "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 768	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:16:00 - [38] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 (a fit that is unscannable, invisible, and costs about 37k) The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding then moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. there is nothing wrong with camping. you run n gun all you freaking want. its about time camping players got the bigger end of the stick.
Soldiersaint Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 768	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:17:00 - [39] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: No ****. It does make more sense to have the cloak shimmer when standing still. It can be explained through in-game lore. Makes sense to reward player involvement and reward scouts for being a scout and not a cheap afk move. Although, I would use it for the good of the game when I step away to refresh my scotch. Well when there are 12 ene ies near me I need to stay until I see an opening to go... It would be better that you could keep moving to get past enemies than to have to stand still and wait for them to go away. stop telling people how to play the game. if they want to camp they can. you dont own him.
Orenji Jiji 368	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:10:00 - [40] - Quote Yes. While we're at it we should nerf HMG, buff tanks and remove all rifles other than the one you use from the game, OP. And bring your favorite FOTM dropsuit back, because it's obviously your birthday or something. OR we could just say "working as intended", cloak back and move on over your QQing carcass. This is the best build in Uprising, honestly. Cool sidearms, heavies are fun to play, we've got cloaks. How about you try to, you know, adjust or die? And no, I don't want your ISK, just leave quietly. SL dumbfire, DS bumpercars, Scout beast-mode. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time.. to die.

GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 878	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:15:00 - [41] - Quote Arirana wrote: EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. Don't forget that because of the way they reduced sound generation to limit lag when someone uncloaks directly behind you the sound is not going to play for you, so the audio cue is wasted. Also, you might not even hear the first shotgun blast either. So good luck responding to the scout. Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 884	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:42:00 - [42] - Quote Arirana wrote: COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Honey boo boo...the solution is simple...scan areas with your reticle and watch for red. You have to pay attention now, you have to scan an objective before you go for the hack. Change your ways or meet an untimely demise, ewar is coming. Running dampeners with a cloak activated makes you unscannable. Your reticle isn't going to turn red unless you pass it slowing over every crevice and corner that a cloaked scout can be hiding in. Ariana, If you pass your weapon reticle over a cloaked scout it will not only turn red( as long as you are in range) you can shoot them dead, regardless of the scouts profile. Please try not to insist that everyone play the game Your way.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2529	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:46:00 - [43] - Quote I agree and disagree in certain parts to the OP - 1) Cloaks should not in any way shimmer or anything like that when totally stationary. The shimmer mechanics are just fine. 2) There should be a longer (or at least some) delay between decloaking and firing; this is the very reason shooting from cloaked was removed - remember that? When CCP first brought up the cloaking mechanics and said certain weapons would wear down your cloak more than others, then we were saved by the CPM from that follishness! (Except for one known glitch) you can't attack whilst cloaked but you can damn near instantly fire from cloaked to uncloaked! 3) Cloaked campers are easy to beat - take a teammate! tahdah! 4) I don't really see why cloaks give an automatic profile dampening... Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 919	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:51:00 - [44] - Quote When someone can kill everything but a heavy in less than a half of a second, they shouldn't have been given the opportunity to defeat visual and passive and active scanning. When/if they fix shotgun hit detection, it will get even worse. Hopefully a workable counter will make itself known through gameplay, but I suspect something's going to need to be done by CCP. I do recognize it's day two and probably a bit too early to scream bloody murder, but it sure seems that's the way this is headed. IMO, of course...>Lead
Smooth Assassin Stardust Incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1074	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:53:00 - [45] - Quote You're insulting me with that armor plate. *Assassination is my thing.*
CRNWLLC Screwy Rabbit ULC 155	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:55:00 - [46] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: Honey boo boo...the solution is simple...scan areas with your reticle and watch for red. You have to pay attention now, you have to scan an objective before you go for the hack. Change your ways or meet an untimely demise, ewar is coming. ^^ Exactly. It only took one time and now I do a pirouette lap around any objective I'm about to hack, as well as another pirouette after the hack. If the reticle turns red I immediately reverse the direction of my turn and shoot as soon as the reticle is red. Since most cloakers are trying to stay hidden anyway, this is usually sufficient to 1. kill them or 2. send them on their way. One funny thing I've noticed, that I've taken advantage of numerous times, is that folks seem to cloak up right before they hack. I understand what they're thinking ("Cool, no one can see me while I hack so it must be safer"), but here's the thing: I do see these folks since I have a scan range of ~50m with a precision of 24db and a profile of 15db. It is glaringly obvious on my radar when someone cloaks up (especially right before a hack) and it is exceedingly easy for me to shoot them in their invisible backs since I have complete radar invisibility and their eyes aren't pointed in my direction (except from Gallogis using a Duvolle Focused AS, and I have yet to come across one in my 30+ matches yesterday). And pretty much anyone without level 5 dampening and two complex damps is going to show up on my radar. So, yeah, cloaks are overrated and can suck it. My other dropsuit is a Python.
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2387	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:08:00 - [47] - Quote I agree with OP; there's nothing wrong with camping, but the cloak makes it basically a no-risk play style. Wait around a corner, cloak up when you see someone coming, move in for the gank. ak.0 4 LYFE Large Missile Turrets: the real unicorns of DUST.
noob cavman Imperfects Negative-Feedback 920	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:12:00 - [48] - Quote Arirana wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Run dem precision enhancers I can pick up a good amount of cloaked scouts with my gal scout The caldari scout can only get their scan precision to about 15 db, the same as the galogi with a focused scanner. Precision enhanders only work for passive scans, so they don't make active scanners stronger if anyone had that wild idea. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2286 Gal scouts can become unscannable with max skills, 1 dampener and a cloak, as I've stated in the OP. Can confirm this from scout threads on the subject. the gal can truly be a invisible killer. I want to be a caveman! Ccp: DENIED YOU DRUNK Tea drinking shotty brit XD
LEHON Xeon Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 349	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:13:00 - [49] - Quote Well, I actually don't sit around with cloaks waiting for people to come by. I do the exact opposite and use them to either cross open areas while avoiding vehicles and snipers, or to get into position. Only time I stand still is like yesterday when I was running to an objective while cloaked and another scout came up behind me. He didn't notice and was after the guy in front of me so I just stopped, turned invisible and waited for him to go past. Soon as he did I opened up on him with my CR and he was dead. Always the last person to leave. Always the one cleaning up people's messes.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 482	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:10:00 - [50] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: If you pass your weapon reticle over a cloaked scout it will not only turn red( as long as you are in range) you can shoot them dead, regardless of the scouts profile. Please try not to insist that everyone play the game Your way. I'm not insisting that everyone play my way. With the cloak camping is more rewarding than the Run n Gun play style. The balance between the two needs to be even, it's just as important as weapon balance. When Run n Gun is stronger, then patience begins to lose it's advantages, and when camping results in winning nearly every engagement, the gameplay as a whole comes to a crawl. Camping has it's advantages because you get in the first few shots before your target can react to you. This is really common in low TTK fps games because you can kill them before they can react. In high TTK, such as this build, they can react and have a chance. With the cloak, there's not chance of them spotting you first and getting in the first few shots, effectively bumping camping up to low TTK level. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.

Christiphoros von Poe Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 249	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:24:00 - [51] - Quote I only have a cloak on my scout for emergencies. Emergencies such as a tank rolling towards me and I have no cover, or a full squad passing by my position. I will not engage, I use it to hide. (1) "Exile" Assault Rifle reserved for: Fire of Prometheus Uprising->Replication->E3->Codex->Chromosome->Uprising->???
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 736	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:33:00 - [52] - Quote it is a bit difficult to see them..good news is.... they turn red when in the crosshairs regardless of invisibility..
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 292	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:34:00 - [53] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I agree with OP; there's nothing wrong with camping, but the cloak makes it basically a no-risk play style. Wait around a corner, cloak up when you see someone coming, move in for the gank. Lol and in 1.7 all you needed to do this on a medium suit was add 1 complex profile dampener, 2 if someone had a proto scanner on the other team. You people just have tunnel vision at anything red. Running a medium suit I haven't been scanned in over 3 months, running solo in ambush for all of 1.7 with all the bs tank spam - my kdr increased. And just start accepting that scouts are a little trickier to kill now (just like they should be) rather than just another cheap +1 and 50wp
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 292	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:39:00 - [54] - Quote Arirana wrote: howard sanchez wrote: If you pass your weapon reticle over a cloaked scout it will not only turn red( as long as you are in range) you can shoot them dead, regardless of the scouts profile. Please try not to insist that everyone play the game Your way. I'm not insisting that everyone play my way. With the cloak camping is more rewarding than the Run n Gun play style. The balance between the two needs to be even, it's just as important as weapon balance. When Run n Gun is stronger, then patience begins to lose it's advantages, and when camping results in winning nearly every engagement, the gameplay as a whole comes to a crawl. Camping has it's advantages because you get in the first few shots before your target can react to you. This is really common in low TTK fps games because you can kill them before they can react. In high TTK, such as this build, they can react and have a chance. With the cloak, there's not chance of them spotting you first and getting in the first few shots, effectively bumping camping up to low TTK level. Teamwork > 1 camping scout Ps - high TTK this build? Whut u smoking?
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 485	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:42:00 - [55] - Quote Happy Violentime wrote: Teamwork > 1 camping scout Ps - high TTK this build? Whut u smoking? Well higher time to kill than 1.7 at least, considering all of the weapons, damage mods, and proficiency's took a pretty big nerf. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 422	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:45:00 - [56] - Quote I kind of disagree and agree at the same time. Thing is, if someone trying to hack doesn't flux or spray around the hack panel now, they're a scrub. You people who have an ego trip from proto stomping have a harsh reality waiting in life after you turn off the PS3.
Sir Dukey KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 461	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:50:00 - [57] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 (a fit that is unscannable, invisible, and costs about 37k) The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding than moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. To make this clearer, the cloak grants campers the ability to choose all of their engagements and be the first to start shooting everytime. This offsets the balance between Camping, a legitimate strategy, but extremely boring when over used, and the Run n Gun play style, which is also boring when over used. These two play styles are polar opposites, as well as the most used. They have to be balanced with eachother, to meet the needs of passive and aggressive players. *So alternatively, CCP could instead make two variants of the cloak, the one that rewards standing still, and one that rewards moving around.* EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. Camping is a viable tactic therefore your statement is invalid.
Arirana Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 486	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:57:00 - [58] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Camping is a viable tactic therefore your statement is invalid. Reread it. I said it was legitimate, but right now it's more rewarding than Run n Gun. I have an ego?! O.O The scales have fallen from my eyes.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 148	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:58:00 - [59] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 (a fit that is unscannable, invisible, and costs about 37k) The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding than moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. To make this clearer, the cloak grants campers the ability to choose all of their engagements and be the first to start shooting everytime. This offsets the balance between Camping, a legitimate strategy, but extremely boring when over used, and the Run n Gun play style, which is also boring when over used. These two play styles are polar opposites, as well as the most used. They have to be balanced with eachother, to meet the needs of passive and aggressive players. *So alternatively, CCP could instead make two variants of the cloak, the one that rewards standing still, and one that rewards moving around.* EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. i have no problems with the cloaking device. im oneof 'those scouts' too. a device that rewards moving is too OP. its not hard to just keep walking. as it stands right now, if a person is close to you, you can be seen. since the scout is already fast, it may make it impossible for somebody to even get close enough to see you. the problem i have with scouts is there ability to be the opposite of what they are spposed to be... squishy. tanking scouts is getting to be a problem. i am a true squishy scout. i use nohing but stealth modules. yet i went assault with my ion pistol, and i hit a scout with a fully charged shot. it didnt even penetrate the shields of this caldari scout. its plasma, so its supposed to be strong against shields, and its a charged shot, which is supposed to drop scouts in its one shot. Assault Gk.0 Gallente Federation Patriot General of the Gallente Marine Corps. Look us up if you want to join.
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 108	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:06:00 - [60] - Quote Arirana wrote: Almost everyone was excited to see how cloaks work and to try it out for themselves. From first hand experience, I can say with confidence that they are *working. Perhaps working a little too well. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/233/2283 (a fit that is unscannable, invisible, and costs about 37k) The major* problem with cloaks isn't the recharge rate, though a problem, it's not what utterly breaks gameplay. The problem is the fact the cloak rewards players that would rather set up shop in a corner somewhere rather than run around and play the game. Dust was one of the few FPS games that didn't have this problem as the TTK was always high enough for you to be able to turn on these corner campers and shoot back. Camping is legitimate, but cloaks make it OP, therefore overused and annoying. The cloak needs to do as it was intended to do, and not reward campers. The cloak needs to make the player harder to scan and see when they are *MOVING, not standing still. It was originally thought up to help scouts get in their optimal ranges with weapons such as the shotgun and the nova knife, not wait for players to get into your optimal range for you.* The cloak visibility while moving is PERFECT. We need to find a solution to make standing still less rewarding than moving around. This way, scouts will gain the urge to keep moving, making gameplay not only more fun for them, but for their targets as well. To make this clearer, the cloak grants campers the ability to choose all of their engagements and be the first to start shooting everytime. This offsets the balance between Camping, a legitimate strategy, but extremely boring when over used, and the Run n Gun play style, which is also boring when over used. These two play styles are polar opposites, as well as the most used. They have to be balanced with eachother, to meet the needs of passive and aggressive players. *So alternatively, CCP could instead make two variants of the cloak, the one that rewards standing still, and one that rewards moving around.* EDIT: You are all assuming that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I know this stuff because I am one of those scouts. It's stupid. being rewarded for not moving at all isn't fun. I am unscannable, invisible, and my shotgun hits like a truck before you can even realize what happened. I can just hug a wall, in wait for someone to try and take my letter from me. As soon as you get on that panel, and can come up behind you and land a slug in the back of your head, you will not see me, and you will not be able to scan me. Explain to me why scout need cloaks. 1. Want to hack objective without needing to have awareness? 2. Want to make errors and run across open spaces and not get killed? 3. Want to be the new Logi slayer instead if being the agile and fragile suit you're suppose to be? 4. Want to run to the front lines and cloak and and not bother with strategic gameplay or positioning? 5. Want t be able to 1v1 kill heavies when you're not really suppose to? I don't understand the need for the cloak, scouts are fine without it. They got a buff which should be plenty of help even before getting a new cloak in 1.8.



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