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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1232
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
So infantry is harder to kill with infantry weapons, sentinels are especially harder to kill all around, vehicles are harder to kill with AV weapons.... but infantry will still be dying to vehicles at the same rate. Did you miss this or was this intentional?
MAG ~ Raven
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2031
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
3030
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
Infantrys kryptonite
Intelligence is OP
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
11341
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
Well, I could do that...
Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
3074
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8
Selling Templar BPO's 250Mil Last of the BPO's(Click link)
I feed off your tears
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
255
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
TTK is increased, making it slightly harder to kill infantry. That means AV mlt fits get a double buff, as it makes them hardier, and they have the unnerfed scram pistol as a secondary. If AV lasts longer, more swarms get launched, which means more hit the target, which means more tanks face resistance, and may pull back. Also, with the recurrence of wp for damage on vehicles, more people will be running swarms. That means vehicles will spend more time pulling back, and less time shooting, which means that tanks got nerfed.
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2032
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Infantrys kryptonite
Infantry and vehicle Kryptonite. Only the best HAV pilots can survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2032
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything.
Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3145
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then.
I don't even attempt to kill tanks. In pubs there is no point. You WILL lose ISK if you try to kill them.
It's best to just back out of the match if tank spam is too much.
You have to be a special kind of stubborn to not believe AV vs HAV is extremely out of whack. And only more so with the grenade nerf that would have been relevant 6 months ago.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Dauth Jenkins
Ultramarine Corp
255
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then. I don't even attempt to kill tanks. In pubs there is no point. You WILL lose ISK if you try to kill them. It's best to just back out of the match if tank spam is too much. You have to be a special kind of stubborn to not believe AV vs HAV is extremely out of whack. And only more so with the grenade nerf that would have been relevant 6 months ago.
Lol, a full squad of Mlt swarms will severely damage a tank the problem is that the community has to many people like you who just want easy mode. If your looking for a game with no challenge, go elsewhere. CCP is notorious for making very challenging games (or, well, EvE). CCP throws you a load of crap? Take the carp and make a weapon out of it. Look at flaylocks. Buffed into obscurity, they fell out of the public eye. But now they are starting to come back as an AV sidearm. Adapt or die
Btw, I don't drive tanks, I shoot them.
Sees prototompers...
Sees blueberries start to snipe...
Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2033
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
12303
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then.
Unlike most people who like to focus on DUST 514 theoretical, I like to focus on DUST 514 actual.
In DUST 514 actual, vehicles are rewarded for playing solo (increased defense thanks to no stupidly hard to fit turrets), while AV is continuously pushed into triviality by the very thing they are meant to destroy (militia rail is STILL the best AV weapon in the game for the cost and the SP investment)
There is so much wrong with balance that it has actually melted my brain.
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
764
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dauth Jenkins wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then. I don't even attempt to kill tanks. In pubs there is no point. You WILL lose ISK if you try to kill them. It's best to just back out of the match if tank spam is too much. You have to be a special kind of stubborn to not believe AV vs HAV is extremely out of whack. And only more so with the grenade nerf that would have been relevant 6 months ago. Lol, a full squad of Mlt swarms will severely damage a tank the problem is that the community has to many people like you who just want easy mode. If your looking for a game with no challenge, go elsewhere. CCP is notorious for making very challenging games (or, well, EvE). CCP throws you a load of crap? Take the carp and make a weapon out of it. Look at flaylocks. Buffed into obscurity, they fell out of the public eye. But now they are starting to come back as an AV sidearm. Adapt or die PS: I don't drive tanks, I shoot them. PPS: Carry packed AV to kill those low flying dropships
hmm 6 mlt swarm users vs 6 mlt HAVs both sides working together who is gonna win hmmm? Or 6 mlt swarm vs 2 mlt HAV's with 4 mlt AR users (or even better CR/RR/SCR/ASCR) whos gonna win? |
CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
RISE of LEGION
1070
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. Knock it out, if this community ever gets it through their thick skulls that we have to work together and actually try then there your spam will just waste you ISK and time. We don't even have advanced vehicles and you all cry, just wait till a proto HAV is released, I will consider your QQ valid then. Unlike most people who like to focus on DUST 514 theoretical, I like to focus on DUST 514 actual. In DUST 514 actual, vehicles are rewarded for playing solo (increased defense thanks to no stupidly hard to fit turrets), while AV is continuously pushed into triviality by the very thing they are meant to destroy (militia rail is STILL the best AV weapon in the game for the cost and the SP investment) There is so much wrong with balance that it has actually melted my brain.
You will soon come to realise that either
A. This community in general has no idea when it comes to the word balance.
or
B. This community certainly does not want what would be best for the game. To be honest I don't even think the DEVS truly comprehend the nuances to FPS`s.
Investigate 9/11
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3147
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Unlike you, I actually play the game not talk about it on the forums.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3147
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1512
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8
This already happens. 1.8 will be ridiculous.
Who wants some?
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2034
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Unlike you, I actually play the game not talk about it on the forums.
I do play, not as often as I like because of RL, not because I like the forums more. It is just sad that I am bad at this game, I have no time to play and I still don't have near as many problems with HAVs as most players. You admit you will not even try and they you complain that you can't pop vehicles.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2034
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not.
Do the same for one liner troll posters and it would be about right.
I never said they are balanced, I do say that they aren't indestructible with teamwork and coordinated attacks. When people actually try it works almost every time but when one dude tries to pop a HAV is isn't going to work. What is the point of HAV if they are easily soloed by every Joe-blow merc with no skills in AV. There is a balance problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be, try more and cry less is all I am saying.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Testing Turbo
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
GL killing a shield tanked Gunloggi in 1.8 with 2 flux grenades (which aren't AV btw) and the only AV weapons having proficiency to armor and weak to shields
Did I mention that they have these things called harderners which they can stack as well as regen that negates SL damage ?
Oh and I also forgot to mention you could be against multiple of these Tanks as well ... |
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Testing Turbo
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not. Do the same for one liner troll posters and it would be about right. I never said they are balanced, I do say that they aren't indestructible with teamwork and coordinated attacks. When people actually try it works almost every time but when one dude tries to pop a HAV is isn't going to work. What is the point of HAV if they are easily soloed by every Joe-blow merc with no skills in AV. There is a balance problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be, try more and cry less is all I am saying.
What is the point of infantry if they can be easily soloed by any old joe with no SP invested in Tanks ?
Your an idiot, you make idiot posts .. go away
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Hoover Damn
H.A.R.V.E.S.T.
Legacy Rising
72
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8 This already happens. 1.8 will be ridiculous.
Ah, but you won't have triple stacked complex damage mods and a lightning quick TTK to hide behind. So you won't, in fact, be able to turn around and just kill me. That will take more time. More time in which I'll kill you.
"Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers." - Unknown
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1105
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
Sorry, but no dice.
Should not take a 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc.
Next.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
159
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8 This already happens. 1.8 will be ridiculous. Ah, but you won't have triple stacked complex damage mods and a lightning quick TTK to hide behind. So you won't, in fact, be able to turn around and just kill me. That will take more time. More time in which I'll kill you.
I loves me a good back-sassin'! Do more! Do more! 
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
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Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1235
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Sorry, but no dice. Should not take 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc. Next.
^This. 100,000,000,000,000% this
MAG ~ Raven
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5856
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Infantrys kryptonite Infantry and vehicle Kryptonite. Only the best HAV pilots can survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be.
Thanks for recognizing me as one of the best. It really means something to me you know.
*Sheds a tear*
Anyways, no that should not be the case. No amount of currency or gear should ever allow you to be able to survive a concentrated amount of teamwork from people who are both competent, and/or equally skilled as the person they are fighting.
That's terrible game design.
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3156
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Unlike you, I actually play the game not talk about it on the forums. I do play, not as often as I like because of RL, not because I like the forums more. It is just sad that I am bad at this game, I have no time to play and I still don't have near as many problems with HAVs as most players. You admit you will not even try and they you complain that you can't pop vehicles.
I'm not saying I haven't spent a TON of ISK trying.
There is zero incentive to win matches in Dust. I am willing to throw ISK at a GD good fight, but tanks aren't one of them.
Swarms are garbage, AV nades even at proto could be tanked with ease.
I have a heavy alt that I will kill tanks with, but even then you find yourself dealing with infantry that is roaming around without a care in the world because everyone is ducking for cover from tanks.
They are simply too much of a force multiplier in pubs when you control less than 50% of your team.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2034
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 20:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Infantrys kryptonite Infantry and vehicle Kryptonite. Only the best HAV pilots can survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be. Thanks for recognizing me as one of the best. It really means something to me you know. *Sheds a tear* Anyways, no that should not be the case. No amount of currency or gear should ever allow you to be able to survive a concentrated amount of teamwork from people who are both competent, and/or equally skilled as the person they are fighting. That's terrible game design.
Let me change that sentence a little.
Only the best HAV pilots should have a chance to survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
590
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not. Do the same for one liner troll posters and it would be about right. I never said they are balanced, I do say that they aren't indestructible with teamwork and coordinated attacks. When people actually try it works almost every time but when one dude tries to pop a HAV is isn't going to work. What is the point of HAV if they are easily soloed by every Joe-blow merc with no skills in AV. There is a balance problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be, try more and cry less is all I am saying.
Ok, robot devil, you are so full of ****, I read your posts and literally just shake my head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are talking about STANDARD tanks vs proto AV. And since I actually do play this game, I will use my stats as a forger pro 5 for this argument.
You are trying to convince the community that a standard tank should not be soloable by a pro 5 forge gunner? Seriously? A 3 mil sp investment into tanks gets you your std hav, enh hardeners, and proto turret. I invest 3 mil into my FG and I can get prof 5, reload 4, ammo 4.
So literally you get the frame, modules, and weap for what I invest into just my gun. Every ******* tank in this current build should be absolutely soloable by a single person with proto AV. With complex modules the tank should be tough for 1person to solo, but not impossible.
Infantry does not need to adapt nor change our expectations, you simply need to wake the **** up. What you should be doing is soliciting CCP to add adv and proto tanks, which should be increasingly more difficult for AV to bring down. Adv tanks should take a couple AVers and cost more, proto should take teamwork and be aboutthe price of 1.6.....But your scrub ass std tank should absolutely get the **** beat out of it by a single proto AVer.
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
5858
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:
Only the best HAV pilots should have a chance to survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be.
That still does nothing to negate my point.
You cannot list one infantry player who has ever survived concentrated amounts of fire and/or teamwork from a group of people who are both competent, and equally skilled as the person they are fighting.
Want to know why that's terrible game balance?
If there is an item that allows me to survive an entire group of people working against me, why would I use anything else? Why would anyone?
If there is a mechanic that makes it to where all other options are completely inferior to the other, it is broken. Why do you think the Rifles are being nerfed?
AV > HAV > INF > AV | Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF
[s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through
-HAND
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
3159
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not. Do the same for one liner troll posters and it would be about right. I never said they are balanced, I do say that they aren't indestructible with teamwork and coordinated attacks. When people actually try it works almost every time but when one dude tries to pop a HAV is isn't going to work. What is the point of HAV if they are easily soloed by every Joe-blow merc with no skills in AV. There is a balance problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be, try more and cry less is all I am saying.
I've said it before. Tanks are fine when you can control the variables. In PC I think they were in a decent place before the grenade nerf.
I've solo'd more tanks with RE's in this build than I have been credited for tank kills in my 250K AV suit. To me this is an issue.
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
Level 3 Forum Warrior
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2038
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Unlike you, I actually play the game not talk about it on the forums. I do play, not as often as I like because of RL, not because I like the forums more. It is just sad that I am bad at this game, I have no time to play and I still don't have near as many problems with HAVs as most players. You admit you will not even try and they you complain that you can't pop vehicles. I'm not saying I haven't spent a TON of ISK trying. There is zero incentive to win matches in Dust. I am willing to throw ISK at a GD good fight, but tanks aren't one of them. Swarms are garbage, AV nades even at proto could be tanked with ease. I have a heavy alt that I will kill tanks with, but even then you find yourself dealing with infantry that is roaming around without a care in the world because everyone is ducking for cover from tanks. They are simply too much of a force multiplier in pubs when you control less than 50% of your team.
Don't get me wrong, there is a problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be. No, it shouldn't take an entire squad to pop one vehicle but it should take a few guys trying. A good squad with good teamwork that has competent mercs working in unison and focused on one thing that support each other doesn't have many problems. That is why the best teams are the best, they do it correctly. Vehicles in closed beta were OP, except for free LAV that were one AV nade pops, they are nowhere near that way now. Using cover and tactics negates a lot of HAV damage. One merc as bait and the other two applying damage does wonders. Yes, I can solo some HAVs but not all. Yes, some pilots are OP when in HAVs but it is the pilot not so much the HAV because good pilots are good and make wise choices.
It all comes down to how good the squad is trying to kill the HAV and how good the pilot is, if either are sub par then the other side wins almost every time. I am not, have not and will not say that the vehicle/AV dichotomy is not borked up and needs to be tweaked a little but I will say that is as much the infantries fault as it is OP HAVs. I don't want to invalidate some guys way of playing because something is difficult. It is like saying I can't solo a battleship in a frigate and they need to be nerfed, every thing has its place but finding the right place is sometimes difficult. It is very sad to see people say they don't even try because they will lose ISK. Talk about being risk adverse carebears. Easy is not fun and the most difficult fights I have had in this game are always the most fun. I want to drop out of matches when we roll the other team because it so boring that I makes me want to turn the game off.
New Eden has never been call easy and if you are not willing to lose ISK then maybe you should go back to high sec mining. The game is about risk vs reward and if you aren't willing to risk then you shouldn't be rewarded. I am not trying to be an ass but there is times when you are going to lose, no one wins at everything every time and dropping out only empowers pilots to keep doing what they are doing, not trying is letting them win and if you aren't willing to fight the hard fight then this isn't the game for you. When I say you I am not singling you out, I am using the word you as a reference to the community as a whole.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Zahle Undt
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
992
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm going to win the vehicle vs AV battle the only way infantry really can, by not playing the game. You tankers can play sci-fi World of Tanks and I'll go find a FPS to play. Everyone will be happy
Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2039
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I've solo'd more tanks with RE's in this build than I have been credited for tank kills in my 250K AV suit. To me this is an issue.
Yes that is an issue but on the other side just because you spend ISK doesn't mean you should win. Again, I am not saying they aren't borked or don't need tweaking, I am simply saying that they are not indestructible when up against good players. We need to be very careful on how we proceed with vehicles or we will never get out of the OP/UP cycle that has screwed us from the beginning of closed beta. Almost every suit I have is completely equipped with advanced modules, I don't use proto weapons ( I only have two) and I don't even have a prototype suit. If a total scrub like me can manage to fight vehicles, solo most of the time, then I just don't feel like they are as bad as they seem to be. I die often to HAVs but it usually because I am trying to kill them, they roll over and we 1v1 for 30 seconds and I die. I am not going to complain about losing to a HAV when I picked a fight with them. Good pilots will always be OP because they are good.
Again, not saying they aren't OP, just trying to be objective on how we deal with difficulty.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Onesimus Tarsus
The Exemplars
Top Men.
1643
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not.
It is balanced.
The gutless chickens are in tanks, the regular players are on foot.
Balance.
Unless you're just addicted to wetsuit paperdolls...
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2040
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
If CCP wants to fix vehicles then all they need to do is add a deployable web. Have the web reduce the speed of the vehicle by 75% and have the radius be like 50M, we could then set up kill boxes that the pilots either have to go really slow or go another way. More options is the answer to the vehicle problems not constant nerfs and buffs that try to placate every merc who wants to solo something.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Ayures II
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
559
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:35:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:
Don't get me wrong, there is a problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be. No, it shouldn't take an entire squad to pop one vehicle but it should take a few guys trying. A good squad with good teamwork that has competent mercs working in unison and focused on one thing that support each other doesn't have many problems. That is why the best teams are the best, they do it correctly. Vehicles in closed beta were OP, except for free LAV that were one AV nade pops, they are nowhere near that way now. Using cover and tactics negates a lot of HAV damage. One merc as bait and the other two applying damage does wonders. Yes, I can solo some HAVs but not all. Yes, some pilots are OP when in HAVs but it is the pilot not so much the HAV because good pilots are good and make wise choices.
It all comes down to how good the squad is trying to kill the HAV and how good the pilot is, if either are sub par then the other side wins almost every time. I am not, have not and will not say that the vehicle/AV dichotomy is not borked up and needs to be tweaked a little but I will say that is as much the infantries fault as it is OP HAVs. I don't want to invalidate some guys way of playing because something is difficult. It is like saying I can't solo a battleship in a frigate and they need to be nerfed, every thing has its place but finding the right place is sometimes difficult. It is very sad to see people say they don't even try because they will lose ISK. Talk about being risk adverse carebears. Easy is not fun and the most difficult fights I have had in this game are always the most fun. I want to drop out of matches when we roll the other team because it so boring that I makes me want to turn the game off.
New Eden has never been call easy and if you are not willing to lose ISK then maybe you should go back to high sec mining. The game is about risk vs reward and if you aren't willing to risk then you shouldn't be rewarded. I am not trying to be an ass but there is times when you are going to lose, no one wins at everything every time and dropping out only empowers pilots to keep doing what they are doing, not trying is letting them win and if you aren't willing to fight the hard fight then this isn't the game for you. When I say you I am not singling you out, I am using the word you as a reference to the community as a whole.
/thread |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
592
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:
Don't get me wrong, there is a problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be. No, it shouldn't take an entire squad to pop one vehicle but it should take a few guys trying. A good squad with good teamwork that has competent mercs working in unison and focused on one thing that support each other doesn't have many problems. That is why the best teams are the best, they do it correctly. Vehicles in closed beta were OP, except for free LAV that were one AV nade pops, they are nowhere near that way now. Using cover and tactics negates a lot of HAV damage. One merc as bait and the other two applying damage does wonders. Yes, I can solo some HAVs but not all. Yes, some pilots are OP when in HAVs but it is the pilot not so much the HAV because good pilots are good and make wise choices.
It all comes down to how good the squad is trying to kill the HAV and how good the pilot is, if either are sub par then the other side wins almost every time. I am not, have not and will not say that the vehicle/AV dichotomy is not borked up and needs to be tweaked a little but I will say that is as much the infantries fault as it is OP HAVs. I don't want to invalidate some guys way of playing because something is difficult. It is like saying I can't solo a battleship in a frigate and they need to be nerfed, every thing has its place but finding the right place is sometimes difficult. It is very sad to see people say they don't even try because they will lose ISK. Talk about being risk adverse carebears. Easy is not fun and the most difficult fights I have had in this game are always the most fun. I want to drop out of matches when we roll the other team because it so boring that I makes me want to turn the game off.
New Eden has never been call easy and if you are not willing to lose ISK then maybe you should go back to high sec mining. The game is about risk vs reward and if you aren't willing to risk then you shouldn't be rewarded. I am not trying to be an ass but there is times when you are going to lose, no one wins at everything every time and dropping out only empowers pilots to keep doing what they are doing, not trying is letting them win and if you aren't willing to fight the hard fight then this isn't the game for you. When I say you I am not singling you out, I am using the word you as a reference to the community as a whole.
Risk v reward? Your 3mil lifetime investment and 100,000 ISK get you a weapon capable of standing toe to toe with 2 full proto squads and come out on top every single time.
And you seriously bring up risk v reward as a crux for your argument? As a tanker?! Lmao
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
|
Beeeees
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
464
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Separate vehicle caps.
PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED
TOLD514
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2040
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 21:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
Don't get me wrong, there is a problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be. No, it shouldn't take an entire squad to pop one vehicle but it should take a few guys trying. A good squad with good teamwork that has competent mercs working in unison and focused on one thing that support each other doesn't have many problems. That is why the best teams are the best, they do it correctly. Vehicles in closed beta were OP, except for free LAV that were one AV nade pops, they are nowhere near that way now. Using cover and tactics negates a lot of HAV damage. One merc as bait and the other two applying damage does wonders. Yes, I can solo some HAVs but not all. Yes, some pilots are OP when in HAVs but it is the pilot not so much the HAV because good pilots are good and make wise choices.
It all comes down to how good the squad is trying to kill the HAV and how good the pilot is, if either are sub par then the other side wins almost every time. I am not, have not and will not say that the vehicle/AV dichotomy is not borked up and needs to be tweaked a little but I will say that is as much the infantries fault as it is OP HAVs. I don't want to invalidate some guys way of playing because something is difficult. It is like saying I can't solo a battleship in a frigate and they need to be nerfed, every thing has its place but finding the right place is sometimes difficult. It is very sad to see people say they don't even try because they will lose ISK. Talk about being risk adverse carebears. Easy is not fun and the most difficult fights I have had in this game are always the most fun. I want to drop out of matches when we roll the other team because it so boring that I makes me want to turn the game off.
New Eden has never been call easy and if you are not willing to lose ISK then maybe you should go back to high sec mining. The game is about risk vs reward and if you aren't willing to risk then you shouldn't be rewarded. I am not trying to be an ass but there is times when you are going to lose, no one wins at everything every time and dropping out only empowers pilots to keep doing what they are doing, not trying is letting them win and if you aren't willing to fight the hard fight then this isn't the game for you. When I say you I am not singling you out, I am using the word you as a reference to the community as a whole.
Risk v reward? Your 3mil lifetime investment and 100,000 ISK get you a weapon capable of standing toe to toe with 2 full proto squads and come out on top every single time. And you seriously bring up risk v reward as a crux for your argument? As a tanker?! Lmao, get a clue
if a militia HAV rolls two full proto squads then those squads deserve what they got because they are bad or didn't even try. Either way it it isn't a HAV problem it is that crap squads problem.
AS a tanker? Whom are you referring to? Are you calling me a tanker or are you saying you are?
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
|
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
3078
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 22:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8 This already happens. 1.8 will be ridiculous. Ah, but you won't have triple stacked complex damage mods and a lightning quick TTK to hide behind. So you won't, in fact, be able to turn around and just kill me. That will take more time. More time in which I'll kill you.
Yeah instead of damage mods I'll now stack shield, and 1 charged shot from a proto scram rifle will still destroy most standard suits damage mods or not.
Selling Templar BPO's 250Mil Last of the BPO's(Click link)
I feed off your tears
|
1st Lieutenant Tiberius
0uter.Heaven
1313
|
Posted - 2014.03.18 22:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:Hoover Damn wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:I can't wait for standard weapon users to start shooting my protosuit in the back just to have me take my time do a 180 spin and kill them.
Increasing TTK what a joke, people are going to eat their words after 1.8 This already happens. 1.8 will be ridiculous. Ah, but you won't have triple stacked complex damage mods and a lightning quick TTK to hide behind. So you won't, in fact, be able to turn around and just kill me. That will take more time. More time in which I'll kill you. Yeah instead of damage mods I'll now stack shield, and 1 charged shot from a proto scram rifle will still destroy most standard suits damage mods or not.
If you'll not stack shields what will you put in your 3 highs?
The Sinwarden
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2045
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 00:49:00 -
[43] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:
Only the best HAV pilots should have a chance to survive good teamwork and very few infantry can, and that is how it should be.
That still does nothing to negate my point. You cannot list one infantry player who has ever survived concentrated amounts of fire and/or teamwork from a group of people who are both competent, and equally skilled as the person they are fighting.Want to know why that's terrible game balance? If there is an item that allows me to survive an entire group of people working against me, why would I use anything else? Why would anyone? If there is a mechanic that makes it to where all other options are completely inferior to the other, it is broken. Why do you think the Rifles are being nerfed?
all i am saying is spending ISK shouldn't give an automatic win button.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
168
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Posted - 2014.03.19 00:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything.
which happens to be more effective than teamwork...
Kills-Archduke Ferdinand
Balance!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
8383
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Posted - 2014.03.19 00:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Well, I could do that... Or I could spam tanks with my manpower and completely deny the field to everything. which happens to be more effective than teamwork...
Try me.... I dare you get in your tank and fight either my 3 forge buddies or my HAV crew. We are competent enough to take on multiple tanks at a time.
" ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters"
- Malleus Malificorum
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2045
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 00:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
I just played for a while and we destroyed HAV after HAV after HAV with teamwork, yes we got hammered by some but for the most part we destroyed more we let live. We used forges and swarms, it wasn't that bad and the loses we had from red HAVs we minimum.
To be honest in the about 10 rounds we played only one had HAV spam we couldn't handle. Just make them easy so we can go back to every pilot QQing about not being able to call in a vehilce because the pop in 30 seconds.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2045
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 00:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Sorry, but no dice. Should not take 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc. Next.
Our squad of six just rolled almost every HAV we saw with few problems.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2046
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Any person who tries to argue that AV vs HAV is even remotely balanced should have an asterisk next to their name.
It would save a lot of time determining who is full of **** or not. Do the same for one liner troll posters and it would be about right. I never said they are balanced, I do say that they aren't indestructible with teamwork and coordinated attacks. When people actually try it works almost every time but when one dude tries to pop a HAV is isn't going to work. What is the point of HAV if they are easily soloed by every Joe-blow merc with no skills in AV. There is a balance problem but it isn't as bad as we make it out to be, try more and cry less is all I am saying. Ok, robot devil, you are so full of ****, I read your posts and literally just shake my head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are talking about STANDARD tanks vs proto AV. And since I actually do play this game, I will use my stats as a forger pro 5 for this argument. You are trying to convince the community that a standard tank should not be soloable by a pro 5 forge gunner? Seriously? A 3 mil sp investment into tanks gets you your std hav, enh hardeners, and proto turret. I invest 3 mil into my FG and I can get prof 5, reload 4, ammo 4. So literally you get the frame, modules, and weap for what I invest into just my gun. Every ******* tank in this current build should be absolutely soloable by a single person with proto AV. With complex modules the tank should be tough for 1person to solo, but not impossible. Infantry does not need to adapt nor change our expectations, you simply need to wake the **** up. What you should be doing is soliciting CCP to add adv and proto tanks, which should be increasingly more difficult for AV to bring down. Adv tanks should take a couple AVers and cost more, proto should take teamwork and be aboutthe price of 1.6.....But your scrub ass std tank should absolutely get the **** beat out of it by a single proto AVer.
I am done with it, some of you thing that a single person should be able to just run over a team. What ever, just keep QQ like you all are so we can ruin HAVs again and rebuff them again and then re nerf them again and then buff them again and nerf them again. This game will never change with an attitude like that.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
592
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:17:00 -
[49] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Sorry, but no dice. Should not take 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc. Next. Our squad of six just rolled almost every HAV we saw with few problems.
What was your squad composition? Was it lolpub match? Sure a squad of designated AVers can devastate a battlefield. But it shouldn't take a squad to down a standard level tank. Were you using the cbr swarms and dau FG? Or were you using proto? Did you win the matche, all of them? No one is saying Teamwork doesn't work, we are saying it shouldn't have to take a team effort to down std vehicles.
the objective of the game is to win, more often than not your team cannot afford to dedicate an entire squad to AV. Go play ambush, unless your AVers are going to be rolling in tanks they will get smashed, basically whoever wins vehicle cap wins the match. In Dom you can camp and shut down most tanks but redline rails are untouchable. In skirmish they can simply avoid the traps and tanks will slow any infantry movement.
AV is incredibly UP given that we are talking about STD tanks/vehicles.
I think what has most people upset are the facts that CCP has acknowledged that vehicles are not balanced, somehow they thought Nerfing AV grenades was a good idea, and that sometime in the future there will be adv and proto level tanks. Imagine if nothing changes for vehicles after 1.8. And they add the racial variants and higher level tanks....
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
|
Sir Dukey
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time.
Atiim's famous quote: Teamwork for thee but no teamwork for me. (from tankers perspective.) |
|
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Gorgak Brunt
Terrestrial Trading Consortium of New Eden
7
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Posted - 2014.03.19 01:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Sorry, but no dice. Should not take 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc. Next. Our squad of six just rolled almost every HAV we saw with few problems. What was your squad composition? Was it lolpub match? Sure a squad of designated AVers can devastate a battlefield. But it shouldn't take a squad to down a standard level tank. Were you using the cbr swarms and dau FG? Or were you using proto? Did you win the matche, all of them? No one is saying Teamwork doesn't work, we are saying it shouldn't have to take a team effort to down std vehicles. the objective of the game is to win, more often than not your team cannot afford to dedicate an entire squad to AV. Go play ambush, unless your AVers are going to be rolling in tanks they will get smashed, basically whoever wins vehicle cap wins the match. In Dom you can camp and shut down most tanks but redline rails are untouchable. In skirmish they can simply avoid the traps and tanks will slow any infantry movement. AV is incredibly UP given that we are talking about STD tanks/vehicles. I think what has most people upset are the facts that CCP has acknowledged that vehicles are not balanced, somehow they thought Nerfing AV grenades was a good idea, and that sometime in the future there will be adv and proto level tanks. Imagine if nothing changes for vehicles after 1.8. And they add the racial variants and higher level tanks....
Couple of forges and a swarm launcher and then three assault/logi, public contracts. It wasn't an entire squad of AV it was at most three merc and most of the time it was two. We won probably 75%. We played all three kinds of matches and only lost to infantry, the last game we played the reds called in HAVs at the end of the match and we only had a chance to pop one and they did run over us at the end with HAV but the match was over the quitters had already quit because we were losing.
I am and have acknowledged that the balance is out of whack but they are not near as bad as we, here on the forums, make it out to be. Redline HAVs are a problem because there is no way to counter them but that is the only reason. I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
Gorgak Brunt
Procurement Officer
Terrestrial Trading Consortium of New Eden
|
Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3518
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:So infantry is harder to kill with infantry weapons, sentinels are especially harder to kill all around, vehicles are harder to kill with AV weapons.... but infantry will still be dying to vehicles at the same rate. Did you miss this or was this intentional?
Conversations with the Commander
68 inches above sea level...
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2047
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Gorgak Brunt wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Try teamwork and coordination, works every time. Sorry, but no dice. Should not take 50+mil SP worth of mercs to kill one 3 - 5mil SP merc. Next. Our squad of six just rolled almost every HAV we saw with few problems. What was your squad composition? Was it lolpub match? Sure a squad of designated AVers can devastate a battlefield. But it shouldn't take a squad to down a standard level tank. Were you using the cbr swarms and dau FG? Or were you using proto? Did you win the matche, all of them? No one is saying Teamwork doesn't work, we are saying it shouldn't have to take a team effort to down std vehicles. the objective of the game is to win, more often than not your team cannot afford to dedicate an entire squad to AV. Go play ambush, unless your AVers are going to be rolling in tanks they will get smashed, basically whoever wins vehicle cap wins the match. In Dom you can camp and shut down most tanks but redline rails are untouchable. In skirmish they can simply avoid the traps and tanks will slow any infantry movement. AV is incredibly UP given that we are talking about STD tanks/vehicles. I think what has most people upset are the facts that CCP has acknowledged that vehicles are not balanced, somehow they thought Nerfing AV grenades was a good idea, and that sometime in the future there will be adv and proto level tanks. Imagine if nothing changes for vehicles after 1.8. And they add the racial variants and higher level tanks.... Couple of forges and a swarm launcher and then three assault/logi, public contracts. It wasn't an entire squad of AV it was at most three merc and most of the time it was two. We won probably 75%. We played all three kinds of matches and only lost to infantry, the last game we played the reds called in HAVs at the end of the match and we only had a chance to pop one and they did run over us at the end with HAV but the match was over the quitters had already quit because we were losing. I am and have acknowledged that the balance is out of whack but they are not near as bad as we, here on the forums, make it out to be. Redline HAVs are a problem because there is no way to counter them but that is the only reason. I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
this is my post, I bad clicked and switched characters.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
DEZKA DIABLO
0uter.Heaven
412
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Expect 45 min matches lol
Dead trigger master , an ya I do that ISH ON PURPOSE!
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
594
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
Gorgak Brunt wrote:
I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
This is nice, but its simply a delusional thought from fantasy island. Thinking that CCP has magically learned how to balance things and have a plan is simply too optimistic for me at this point. They have repeatedly ****** things up, in major ways. I have no reason to believe this is any different.
Honestly it is much, much more believable that they nerfed grenade count in an attempt to deal with core nade spam, and never even realized it would be a direct AV nerf. God forbid they simply reduce splash radius on locus nades.
Pro-fit Prophet
"Gimme yo lunch money"
|
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2047
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Gorgak Brunt wrote:
I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
This is nice, but its simply a delusional thought from fantasy island at this point. Thinking that CCP has magically learned how to balance things and have a plan is simply too optimistic for me at this point. They have repeatedly ****** things up, in major ways. I have no reason to believe this is any different.
I am not saying it will be good, I am saying that they do things so they can do other things later. I am not saying anything else but it is probably part of a bigger plan. Nothing else, no hidden meanings, just that they probably are doing it so they can do something else with it later. That is all. That is my only point, not saying it is balanced will be balanced or that it is correct. That one statement only has one meaning that I am trying to convey and it is that they probably have a reason. That is it.
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
|
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1422
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 01:58:00 -
[57] - Quote
Zahle Undt wrote:I'm going to win the vehicle vs AV battle the only way infantry really can, by not playing the game. You tankers can play sci-fi World of Tanks and I'll go find a FPS to play. Everyone will be happy
bro just waiting till June July drops .
Hey CCP get a PS4 client
Planetside 2 in June on PS4
Dust Deserters Alliance
|
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1423
|
Posted - 2014.03.19 02:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Gorgak Brunt wrote:
I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
This is nice, but its simply a delusional thought from fantasy island at this point. Thinking that CCP has magically learned how to balance things and have a plan is simply too optimistic for me at this point. They have repeatedly ****** things up, in major ways. I have no reason to believe this is any different. I am not saying it will be good, I am saying that they do things so they can do other things later. I am not saying anything else but it is probably part of a bigger plan. Nothing else, no hidden meanings, just that they probably are doing it so they can do something else with it later. That is all. That is my only point, not saying it is balanced will be balanced or that it is correct. That one statement only has one meaning that I am trying to convey and it is that they probably have a reason. That is it.
heres the bigger plan for a lot of folks.
read the sig.
Hey CCP get a PS4 client
Planetside 2 in June on PS4
Dust Deserters Alliance
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The Robot Devil
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2047
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Gorgak Brunt wrote:
I would say that the AV nade nerf is part of a bigger plan, I don't know what it is but I would say there is a reason that CCP deemed good.
This is nice, but its simply a delusional thought from fantasy island at this point. Thinking that CCP has magically learned how to balance things and have a plan is simply too optimistic for me at this point. They have repeatedly ****** things up, in major ways. I have no reason to believe this is any different. I am not saying it will be good, I am saying that they do things so they can do other things later. I am not saying anything else but it is probably part of a bigger plan. Nothing else, no hidden meanings, just that they probably are doing it so they can do something else with it later. That is all. That is my only point, not saying it is balanced will be balanced or that it is correct. That one statement only has one meaning that I am trying to convey and it is that they probably have a reason. That is it. heres the bigger plan for a lot of folks. read the sig.
So do you think that they will wait and write a PS4 client or are they just waiting for a PS3 emulator that will let us play on the PS4?
"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production."
Raoul Duke
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
1121
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Our squad of six just rolled almost every HAV we saw with few problems.
If a squad of six dedicated AV mercs got together and focused on AV all match them I'm sure they could take out (solo) HAVs...
What is your point exactly? Yes, if enough people dog pile on one HAV they can kill it. That doesn't mean HAVs or AV is balanced, that means zerg tactics still work.
He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
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SPESHULz
The Southern Legion
46
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:27:00 -
[61] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:
Ok, robot devil, you are so full of ****, I read your posts and literally just shake my head. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we are talking about STANDARD tanks vs proto AV. And since I actually do play this game, I will use my stats as a forger pro 5 for this argument.
You are trying to convince the community that a standard tank should not be soloable by a pro 5 forge gunner? Seriously? A 3 mil sp investment into tanks gets you your std hav, enh hardeners, and proto turret. I invest 3 mil into my FG and I can get prof 5, reload 4, ammo 4.
So literally you get the frame, modules, and weap for what I invest into just my gun. Every ******* tank in this current build should be absolutely soloable by a single person with proto AV. With complex modules the tank should be tough for 1person to solo, but not impossible.
Infantry does not need to adapt nor change our expectations, you simply need to wake the **** up. What you should be doing is soliciting CCP to add adv and proto tanks, which should be increasingly more difficult for AV to bring down. Adv tanks should take a couple AVers and cost more, proto should take teamwork and be aboutthe price of 1.6.....But your scrub ass std tank should absolutely get the **** beat out of it by a single proto AVer.
the chasis technically being standard has little relevence proto av does the same amount when equiped to standard suits. Strong tanks will be using proto and adv modules and turrets which requires more sp then 3mil for your forge. it takes about 12mil sp to have one of the tanks that actually are op against av when used correctly. 3mil might get you a proto turret but with lvl 1 fittings and skills not lvl3. That would be really stupid. you would lose 500k every 5 min. From what you have said you arent a tanker so maybe dont make up things that you dont actually know then accuse someone else of being full of ****.
Blood flows. Death comes. War rages.
Maths is OP. It is all those numbers that kills you.
Forum Warrior lvl 0.02
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Villanor Aquarius
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
148
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
More sidearms that cover a wider range of engagement envelopes was the first step towards improving AV. Standard tanks are absolutely fine. It's only militia that are too powerful.
1 Infantry vs. 1 tank is usually going to result in the tank winning.
2 Infantry vs. 2 tanks is going to be in favor of the tanks slightly still.
3 Infantry vs. 3 tanks is a pretty even toss up.
4 Infantry can kill every single tank out and keep them from getting more out.
This is why AV isn't as bad as people think. There is a tipping point below that you won't do well but when enough coordinated people have 1 significant AV be it PLC, Swarm, decent AV nades, or a forge they can handle all the tanks out at a time.
Tanks have a harder time maneuvering and benefit less from coordinating. Two tanks working together isn't as big a benefit in AI as two AV infantry working together.
Get a squad together and everyone carry AV nades or fluxes and toss in a single PLC or swarm launcher and unless you don't play well I think you'll see HAVs don't bother you ever.
I do this with just 1-2 other people in most pubs and it's enough to push tanks back at the very least and also pick up HAV kills when they insist on staying to engage us. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
661
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:44:00 -
[63] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:So infantry is harder to kill with infantry weapons, sentinels are especially harder to kill all around, vehicles are harder to kill with AV weapons.... but infantry will still be dying to vehicles at the same rate. Did you miss this or was this intentional?
This was my thought right after reading the patch notes. We see that infantry vs infantry will be a much more pleasant game play. Evening out the roles and (hopefully) balancing them. But the infantry vs vehicles is sorely unbalanced with not a single thing mentioned in the notes on how the problem is being addressed. Infantry are losing a grenade thus further limiting their effectiveness against all vehicles, including LAV which take 3 grenades to kill. We are getting slower ammo resupply from hives which make spam grenading tanks even more ineffective.
I wonder how CCP is going to let infantry combat tanks. I can't play the game if 5 tanks constantly get spammed against my team. With the remaining 11 infantry as their support... Bringing out ineffective AV weapons to combat tanks while also trying to survive against the infantry... It's aggravating, frustrating, and not fun... At all.
Newb
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Symbioticforks
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
79
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Posted - 2014.03.19 13:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
I feel like any infantryman should be able to destroy a tank should they get point blank on it.
2-3 remotes / 4 packed prototype grenades would feel about right.
^^CCP IGNORES ALL SNIPER RELATED ISSUES^^
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