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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
587
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Someone must have misinformed you, because this:
Doesn't correspond with this:
Sure, I can totally see how CCP would love that. One would think that the best way to keep parity between EVE and Dust would have been adding more languages to EVE's customer support.
There is a worrying trend in CCP support to non EVE languages.
-First, the GMs from most non EVE forums have disappeared since December.
-Now, customer support will no longer be granted except for German, English, Russian and Japanese.
-From removing customer support to removing a language completely from the game, the step is not really that long, and it is the logical progression in this trend.
One of the very few things that CCP has done really well in Dust so far has been giving support to languages that they have always ignored in EVE. It is one of the things that make Dust stand out from other games in the genre. It's one of its selling points, and just from my experience, I can tell you that the % of Spanish players in Dust population is much higher than in EVE.
I guess this decision has been made because some higher up in CCP has decided to reduce costs or save resources. Well, the trick about reducing costs is that you should never eliminate the good characteristics that make your product stand out, and Dust support to multiple languages is one of those characteristics.
Obviously, I speak from the point of view of a Spanish customer, but I don't think my Dust colleagues from other nationalities would disagree with me. I know the CPM has no voice in decisions like this one, but I would like for you at least to transmit to CCP that this is a mistake. That is, if you agree with me, of course. If you don't, then tell CCP that I think this is a mistake.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
1737
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Spanish community is actually really large in DUST, it'd be a huge shame to see DUST push them out. They should strongly consider adding support for languages, not removing it.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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Dalmont Legrand
319
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually this kind of elimination is weird, lots of Spanish speaking players, at least I notice them a lot. The guess might be at what those players spend on this game or just CCP tries to assimilate Dust to EVE.
The best is yet to come
CPM1 Fabulous Candidate
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University Ivy League
1071
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Actually I get a lot of Spanish players in the UNI. Might not be a good idea to ditch support for it.
Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot
CEO of DUST University
CPM1 candidate
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13525
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Posted - 2014.03.18 20:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
This doesn't mean that the game language itself is no longer being continued, just there is not enough GMs to go around. Most of the old staffers are likely on Cerberus providing localization for both eve and dust. Until they get more folks in those departments and budget willing there isn't much more than can do.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
589
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dalmont Legrand wrote:The guess might be at what those players spend on this game or just CCP tries to assimilate Dust to EVE.
Even if only 1% of them spends money, the more of them playing the game, the more money CCP will win.
Even if none of them spent any money in Dust, they would still be content for the ones that do, and would help improve the player population, something this game really needs.
But none of the above is the case. Obviously, I have not played with every Spanish player in the game. But I have easily played, and I'm not exaggerating, with more than two hundred of them. And more than half of those have paid real cash to CCP at some point. Most long time veterans have easily spent more than 100Gé¼, and that rounding down.
It's true that a lot of those have stopped spending money the last months, mainly because the lack of content, the repetitive nature of the game, and CCP walking in circles nerfing/buffing the same things over and over.
The worst part, is that it does not matter what CCP's original intention or reasons were, the message that CCP is sending across with this kind of decision is: "You are a second rate customer. Just give us your money and shut up."
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:This doesn't mean that the game language itself is no longer being continued, just there is not enough GMs to go around. Most of the old staffers are likely on Cerberus providing localization for both eve and dust. Until they get more folks in those departments and budget willing there isn't much more than can do.
First of all, thanks for answering. I know that CCP is not eliminating the language from the game itself. Yet. But once you enter into the dynamic of reducing costs and save budget and resources, it is the next step. So I prefer to make sure they don't take that way.
And about support, I am not asking for 24/7 support, just some support, because after 1.8, CCP will provide no support at all.
I will repeat myself. One of the biggest selling points for Dust, that makes it stand out amongst other products, is that it is both translated and supported into Spanish. A lot of the Spanish players in Dust, have chosen this game over others because of this.
Stopping to do that could be that thing that would turn them to those other games. Don't eliminate the selling points of your product to reduce costs.
Also, what I told Dalmont about CCP message coming across as us being "second rate customers." If the problem is lack of staff and budget, it would come across much better if CCP simply gave that as a reason, instead of saying that it is because they want "to ensure parity with EVE".
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bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
274
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Posted - 2014.03.18 22:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah because the lazy bastards doing customer support can't use Google Translate?
Dust Brazil is in my alliance and it already costs them way more money for a PS3 than in the USA, now you're telling me they will refuse to acknowledge spanish speaking people? LOL
just another example of how Nintendo > All in the video gaming world
bamboo x (Heavy Machine Gun) you
bamboo x ('Toxin' Assault Rifle) you
bamboo x (Charge Sniper Rifle) you
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DootDoot
Da Short Buss
283
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Posted - 2014.03.18 23:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The Spanish community is actually really large in DUST, it'd be a huge shame to see DUST push them out. They should strongly consider adding support for languages, not removing it.
Not to mention French and Spanish populations in the world make Russian and German populations seem like a grain of sand on the beach....
it needs some rethinking. |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
1266
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Posted - 2014.03.19 01:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
When MAG's population started to dwindle, a good amount of the players that remained and continued to play to the end were Spanish/Portuguese speakers. With large corporations such as Brazil SA and Venezuela already in the game, it seems silly to ignore them.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
2800
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Posted - 2014.03.19 14:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have had a number of Spanish and French players come through my Corp too. I managed to get one of my members into What The French Academy last week, as he was having trouble communicating in my English Corp.
I had a guy from Argentina helping me with Spanish translations for a while, but I think he stopped playing.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Sergamon Draco
Rautaleijona Top Men.
397
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Posted - 2014.03.19 15:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe ccp should hire her http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB52rg9Y1Ac
Fck the kdr,i`m going in
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Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
1164
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Posted - 2014.03.19 19:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
They've said it before, for EVE Online, that the spanish-speaking community in the game is way too small to warrant the expenditure. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
1743
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Posted - 2014.03.19 19:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:They've said it before, for EVE Online, that the spanish-speaking community in the game is way too small to warrant the expenditure.
But this is DUST, and the Spanish-speaking community here seems to be a fair bit more significant.
I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
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ONE-OF-THE-FALLEN
gloriaque corporation
3
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Spanish-speakers are a very big community of players, and we-¦re not gonna play DUST anymore if they don-¦t understand that there-¦s a lot of people who doesn-¦t speak english but they love FPS. DUST514 is a great game that allows us to meet people, make friends and, if you want, just playing a bit because you are bored.
i mean, if CCP doesn-¦t consider us "profit" (i mean if they think that Spanish-speakers don-¦t spend money) they should think about WE ARE A LOT (i speak for myself and for the other countries that don-¦t speak English)
And without this number of players, the other players will not want to spend money, and it means: NO MONEY FOR CCP!
i hope they consider it, and sorry, my english is not perfect cause I-¦M SPANISH-SPEAKER thx everybody for reading this post and supporting this cause.
Y a los hispanohablantes, por favor, escribid aqu+¡. Queremos poder entendernos en nuestro idioma, al igual que todos.
Les personnes fran+ºaises qui lisent +ºa, SVP offrez votre soutien +á la cause.
MECAGOEN!
>ONE-OF-THE-FALLEN<
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
604
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
First, let me say that I'm not only complaining about the end of the Spanish support. I think it is a mistake for all the languages involved.
However, being Spanish, most of my experiences are limited to the Spanish community, so those are the only examples I can use.
Rasatsu wrote:They've said it before, for EVE Online, that the spanish-speaking community in the game is way too small to warrant the expenditure.
Maybe the community is small in EVE because the expenditure to support it is accordingly small? What came first, the chicken or the egg? EVE is a very difficult game to get into, much more so than Dust. The fact that is in a different language multiplies that difficulty exponentially. But whatever, the EVE train departed long ago.
Soraya Xel wrote: But this is DUST, and the Spanish-speaking community here seems to be a fair bit more significant.
Correct. Quite so.
Look to the leaderboards, and you will see quite a few corporations, big and active corporations, at the top, formed by players whose language is going to be supported no longer. LKZ, Venezuela, GAC, MIB, WTF, Quebec, Prima Gallicus, Maphia, etc....
If you look at the non English forums, you will see that the Spanish and Italian forums, 2 languages in the black list, are the most active by far. Even the French forums has certainly no lower activity than the Russian, German and Japanese ones.
Small populations don't have a lot of succesful corps on the leaderboards and the second and third most active forums. The fact is, the Spanish population is quite big in Dust, thanks to the support that CCP has given to it so far. Dust has an opportunity to get a market of player untapped by most other games.
However, continue this road (no GMS, no support,...) and you will certainly acquire parity with EVE. Because the Spanish population in Dust will probably be reduced to EVE levels.
Canari Elphus wrote:When MAG's population started to dwindle, a good amount of the players that remained and continued to play to the end were Spanish/Portuguese speakers.
Exactly. And do you know why it was like that?
Because:
1. MAG That game became free to try. So a lot of people had the chance to try it for free and decide if they wanted to spend money on it.
2. MAG That game had one of the best language localization works I've ever seen in a game. The Spanish one was perfect. Not a single translation mistake, great quality in the voice acting. It was even better than the English one. And not only to Spanish, MAG that game was localized to a ton of languages that are usually ignored. Portuguese, Italian, Polish, Chinese, etc.... And then, they each had their forums (with GMs) that were supported for a long, long time. It was an amazing job, that helped those communities a lot.
Well, Dust has point 1. perfectly in check, since it's a FTP game. There won't be any problems coming from that front. Up to now, point 2. has also been done really well. Even if some translations still make me cringe, all in all Dust localization has been pretty good, at least to Spanish.
So Dust has been doing, until now, the 2 things that helped MAG the game that must not be named retain a big population of Spanish players for years. If they keep doing them, CCP will have a big and loyal community boosting Dust playerbase for a long time. Don't stop doing them.
PD: By the way, CCP should strongly consider adding support for Portuguese in the game, because as Canari Elphus said, Brazil can add a strong and dedicated community for this game as they did in MAG that other game. If they get a little bit of help.
PPD: Thanks for the support, but please, don't use MAG that game's name, you will scare any dev or CCP employee that might be reading this by chance. MAG That game is anathema to them and they will even refuse to look at it or admit it had any qualities.
PPPD: MAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAG |
Dr3W Icar
MEN IN BLACK OPS
251
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
we are forgotten by CCP, thanks for giving voice flying out of our forum
P.D. Dry for my English
Ad Astra Per Aspera
Shotgun My love!!!, scout my life!!
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JIAF-PR
Inmortales LLC Amenaza Inminente
57
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Posted - 2014.03.20 14:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
The only thing I can say is: we (latinos) are the Minmatar in this
"Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos"
GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
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Yonkou Ifrit
EL Azteca Empire Amenaza Inminente
25
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
A really hope CCP don't forget us because a lot of the spanish and latino players, doesn't know nothing about the english language so if the game in the future change to the english language CCP going to loose a lot of active players.
We are not a small community on this game we can see at the public chat ZERO-TEAM-000 and see to many players connected any time the same thing at any other public chats or the number of members at the hispanic corporations.
My english is not very good so i hope you understand something. |
Sigourney Reever
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
8
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Posted - 2014.03.20 16:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Its clear to me that Dust, if not all New Eden Properties, need Spanish, and possibly Portuguese, language support.
There have been notably large numbers of both language speakers in Dust since day one, and they've been at least as organized as any other 'regional/language group'
Its kind of obvious to me that if globally marketing 3 completely different, persistent, games (eve, dust and valkyrie) in the same universe, there's the distinct possibility that some languages may be more or less represented on a game by game basis.
One door opening for a new language in one game presents a marketing opportunity for the other 2 games.
I've no direct evidence, but I'll bet that Spanish and Portuguese speakers are more prevalent in Dust (F2P) than Eve (Subscription). Sounds like a no brainer, considering they have an office in Atlanta. Finding translators for both shouldn't be a problem at all.
Remember tho that the 'Russian Block' in Eve arose mostly unattended by CCP in the early years, and organized itself pretty well specifically because of the language barrier and lack of cyrillic text support.
So perhaps its not a problem for the players themselves, just for CCP's bottom line. |
gustavo08
LATINOS KILLERS CORP Caps and Mercs
119
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Posted - 2014.03.20 17:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
It is amazing how little respect Spain speaking players. Flyingconejo THAT GREAT work do, you speak perfectly English and yet you do and strive for players who can not communicate in English. CCP there are many Spanish-speaking players, instead of eliminating language that incorporate not eve in Spanish. Once and respect the players whether big or small the entire community deserves some esteem. spend aurum, the minimum time is that we grant some dedication, now we removed without GM support and who knows in the future once we remove dust. thanks
google translator
A llorar a otro lado C.....
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MOCTEZUMA WARRIOR
WarPigs Enterprises Amenaza Inminente
153
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Posted - 2014.03.20 21:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
los hispanoparlantes ya no podremos comprar AURUM?
sarcasmo MODE ON
muthaphukkin amerikkkaz most wanted
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WARRIOR GAC
Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION
71
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
Es muy raro no ver a un hispano en DUST ( esto lo puede afirmar cualquier jugador ), la pregunta es sencilla -+Porqu+¬ se elimina el soporte de idiomas cuando seria mejor agregar a EVE estos idiomas? Si es un tema de presupuesto no los perjudicar+¡a, al contrario, les dar+¡a el beneficio de tener una mayor cantidad de jugadores en EVE y por tanto mayores ingresos. Si se llegase a eliminar el soporte (asunto que ya esta confirmado), de que servir+¡a tener un foro en el que no le toman la m+¡nima consideraci+¦n? s+¦lo CCP lo sabe.
And to not eliminate this post : I agree with the OP. (translated into "google translate")
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
Estamos reclutando !
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13580
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Posted - 2014.03.20 22:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:Dalmont Legrand wrote:The guess might be at what those players spend on this game or just CCP tries to assimilate Dust to EVE. Even if only 1% of them spend money, the more of them playing the game, the more money CCP will win. Even if none of them spent any money in Dust, they would still be content for the ones that do, and would help improve the player population, something this game really needs. But none of the above is the case. Obviously, I have not played with every Spanish player in the game. But I have easily played, and I'm not exaggerating, with more than two hundred of them. And more than half of those have paid real cash to CCP at some point. Most long time veterans have easily spent more than 100Gé¼, and that rounding down. It's true that a lot of those have stopped spending money the last months, mainly because the lack of content, the repetitive nature of the game, and CCP walking in circles nerfing/buffing the same things over and over. But that's a different problem. The worst part, is that it does not matter what CCP's original intention or reasons were, the message that CCP is sending across with this kind of decision is: "You are a second rate customer. Just give us your money and shut up." Iron Wolf Saber wrote:This doesn't mean that the game language itself is no longer being continued, just there is not enough GMs to go around. Most of the old staffers are likely on Cerberus providing localization for both eve and dust. Until they get more folks in those departments and budget willing there isn't much more than can do. First of all, thanks for answering. I know that CCP is not eliminating the language from the game itself. Yet. But once you enter into the dynamic of reducing costs and save budget and resources, it is the next step. So I prefer to make sure they don't take it. And about support, I am not asking for 24/7 support, just some support, because after 1.8, CCP will provide no support at all. I will repeat myself. One of the biggest selling points for Dust, that makes it stand out amongst other products, is that it is both translated and supported into Spanish. A lot of the Spanish players in Dust, have chosen this game over others because of this. Stopping to do that could be that thing that would turn them to those other games. Don't eliminate the selling points of your product to reduce costs. Also, what I told Dalmont about CCP message coming across as us being "second rate customers." If the problem is lack of staff and budget, it would come across much better if CCP simply gave that as a reason, instead of saying that it is because they want "to ensure parity with EVE".
Alas most companies avoid specific wording on cutbacks for various reasons including lawsuit avoidance (defamation) I am sure you all can see the public report as required by icelandic law. We also knew about cuts here and there as CCP moves forward. It hurts CCP to do these things at time but the economy is tough and they are an 'independent' company still and have to manage their entire enterprise by themselves. So customer support, marketing, publishing is all on their bill.
I know it sucks that customer support is losing language but this does give some opportunities for the most committed bilinguals of the game some leadership role.
Luckily this also does not restrict the community team from having members that can post in the other language without having to use google translate (which still has hilarity and insult issues despite crowd sourced translations)
This also allows for leaders to rise up to be a rally point with issues.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Mell caneva
Megadex-ESP
31
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Yes, the spanish community is in a bad situation, we need a moderator, I try to communicate that to CCP 1 month ago, but they take that like a joke, I think the other forums will be in a very bad situation too, personally I think if us will not do anything dust 514 will be a exclusive game from United States and us don't goint to have a good product. The best that have a good product is a good suport and service, friendly, that they will be interesting for the people and don't get out to the people that don't produce money for the game.
Regards and think that, us don't have to despice to people that aren't Americans :)
Yo no estoy loco, solo estoy demente.
Diario de Jhonatan (XBOXER091)
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JuanDaniel
Venezuela CORP Caps and Mercs
47
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Posted - 2014.03.21 05:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
CEO Venezuela CORP
Pagina Oficial de Venezuela CORP
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ONE-OF-THE-FALLEN
gloriaque corporation
9
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Posted - 2014.03.21 06:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Now i-¦m gonna post in Spanish. Dices que la econom+¡a es muy dura, pues creo que entonces os interesa tener a la comunidad hispana en vuestro juego, porque puedo hacer una lista de pa+¡ses de habla hispana y sectores de poblaci+¦n de otros pa+¡ses a los que perder+¬is:
1. Andorra 2. Argentina 3. Belice 4. Bolivia 5. Chile 6. Colombia 7. Costa Rica 8. Cuba 9. Ecuador 10. El Salvador 11. Espa+¦a 12. Guatemala 13. Guinea Ecuatorial 14. Honduras 15. M+¬xico 16. Nicaragua 17. Panam+í 18. Paraguay 19. Per+¦ 20. Puerto Rico 21. Rep+¦blica Dominicana 22. Uruguay 23. Venezuela 24. partes de Canad+í 25. partes de EEUU 26. Filipinas 27. Gran Breta+¦a 28. Marruecos 29. S+íhara Occidental
Y seguro que me olvido de algunos. Vosotros mismos, CCP. Yo pensaba gastarme dinero real en DUST, pero ahora soy el que encabeza la larga cola de
DESERCI+ôN
MECAGOEN!
>ONE-OF-THE-FALLEN<
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SUCIA-KEILY
xCCPx Technical Departament
25
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Posted - 2014.03.21 08:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
El espa+¦ol o castellano como querais llamarlo es la segunda lengua mas hablada en el mundo.
Que CCP quiera eleminarna me resulta mui .............. en serio CCP usted perdio el norte |
ZIPI GAC
Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION
90
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Posted - 2014.03.21 09:32:00 -
[28] - Quote
First of all, thanks Flyingconejo, you are awesome!!!
Well, i stopped playing Dust514 6 months ago, but i keep in contact with my teammates to see the evolution of Dust514, and why not, to come back....
After reading this kind of announcements, i say to my self, Who is leading CCP strategy?... a monkey?..
Veterans players are tired of changes, the game still the same since the closed beta, most of the games are booooooring (red lines, campers, etc)... and now CCP decides to stop Spanish support instead of add new languages, and increase the base of players.
The new gen of videogames are here, and from my point of view, with this "great" decisions, probably we are waching the end of Dust514 sitting at the first line of the stadium.
Good luck CCP!! |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
13588
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Posted - 2014.03.21 09:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Anyways I poked for a blue post and one may visit. Overall its not that CCP rates the unsupported players as second class; it is just when it comes to costs vs shove the extra team support and community team members are usually on the chopping block first in any game company. Last big let go that CCP announced publically quite a few community members saw the way out. Blizzard has a similar deal; they also included a large number of interns.
As CPM I have no influence when it comes to business decisions. I can express how upset you guys are over this but that's the breaks. CCP just doesn't have the means to translate the game every language in the world and doesn't have the means to support customers in every major language in the world. I mean when was the last time you heard a game use Tagalog?
Alternatively; There is nothing for bading the use of using google translate to file for tickets and reports. Just have a lower expectancy of highly desirable results.
As for GM and forum moderation; there is nothing much more you, me and CCP can do outside of trying to get a bilingual spanish community team member on the task who isn't part of the GM house.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Draco Cerberus
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
836
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Posted - 2014.03.21 13:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:Someone must have misinformed you, because this: Doesn't correspond with this: Sure, I can totally see how CCP would love that. One would think that the best way to keep parity between EVE and Dust would have been adding more languages to EVE's customer support. There is a worrying trend in the way CCP supports non EVE languages. -First, the GMs from most non EVE language forums have disappeared, with the forums being unmoderated since December. -Now, customer support will no longer be granted except for German, English, Russian and Japanese. -From removing customer support to removing a language completely from the game, the step is not really that long, and it is the logical progression in this trend. One of the very few things that CCP has done really well in Dust so far has been giving support to languages that they have always ignored in EVE. It is one of the things that make Dust stand out from other games in the genre. It's one of its selling points, and just from my experience, I can tell you that the % of Spanish players in Dust population is much higher than in EVE. I guess this decision has been made because some higher up in CCP has decided to reduce costs or save resources. Well, the trick about reducing costs is that you should never eliminate the good characteristics that make your product stand out, and Dust support to multiple languages is one of those characteristics. Obviously, I speak from the point of view of a Spanish customer, but I don't think my Dust colleagues that speak other languages(French, Italian, Portuguese...) would disagree with me. I know the CPM has no voice in decisions like this one, but I would like for you to at least to transmit to CCP that this is a mistake. That is, if you agree with me, of course. If you don't, then tell CCP that at least for me this is a mistake. I can get behind CCP hiring a spanish linguist, their services could be used to make both games better. By which I mean draw in larger players by being available in their native or secondary tongue. This is an awesome idea, kudos to whomever suggested it.
LogiGod earns his pips
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