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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
587
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Posted - 2014.03.18 19:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Someone must have misinformed you, because this:
Doesn't correspond with this:
Sure, I can totally see how CCP would love that. One would think that the best way to keep parity between EVE and Dust would have been adding more languages to EVE's customer support. 
There is a worrying trend in CCP support to non EVE languages.
-First, the GMs from most non EVE forums have disappeared since December.
-Now, customer support will no longer be granted except for German, English, Russian and Japanese.
-From removing customer support to removing a language completely from the game, the step is not really that long, and it is the logical progression in this trend.
One of the very few things that CCP has done really well in Dust so far has been giving support to languages that they have always ignored in EVE. It is one of the things that make Dust stand out from other games in the genre. It's one of its selling points, and just from my experience, I can tell you that the % of Spanish players in Dust population is much higher than in EVE.
I guess this decision has been made because some higher up in CCP has decided to reduce costs or save resources. Well, the trick about reducing costs is that you should never eliminate the good characteristics that make your product stand out, and Dust support to multiple languages is one of those characteristics.
Obviously, I speak from the point of view of a Spanish customer, but I don't think my Dust colleagues from other nationalities would disagree with me. I know the CPM has no voice in decisions like this one, but I would like for you at least to transmit to CCP that this is a mistake. That is, if you agree with me, of course. If you don't, then tell CCP that I think this is a mistake.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
589
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Posted - 2014.03.18 21:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dalmont Legrand wrote:The guess might be at what those players spend on this game or just CCP tries to assimilate Dust to EVE.
Even if only 1% of them spends money, the more of them playing the game, the more money CCP will win.
Even if none of them spent any money in Dust, they would still be content for the ones that do, and would help improve the player population, something this game really needs.
But none of the above is the case. Obviously, I have not played with every Spanish player in the game. But I have easily played, and I'm not exaggerating, with more than two hundred of them. And more than half of those have paid real cash to CCP at some point. Most long time veterans have easily spent more than 100Gé¼, and that rounding down.
It's true that a lot of those have stopped spending money the last months, mainly because the lack of content, the repetitive nature of the game, and CCP walking in circles nerfing/buffing the same things over and over.
The worst part, is that it does not matter what CCP's original intention or reasons were, the message that CCP is sending across with this kind of decision is: "You are a second rate customer. Just give us your money and shut up."
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:This doesn't mean that the game language itself is no longer being continued, just there is not enough GMs to go around. Most of the old staffers are likely on Cerberus providing localization for both eve and dust. Until they get more folks in those departments and budget willing there isn't much more than can do.
First of all, thanks for answering. I know that CCP is not eliminating the language from the game itself. Yet. But once you enter into the dynamic of reducing costs and save budget and resources, it is the next step. So I prefer to make sure they don't take that way.
And about support, I am not asking for 24/7 support, just some support, because after 1.8, CCP will provide no support at all.
I will repeat myself. One of the biggest selling points for Dust, that makes it stand out amongst other products, is that it is both translated and supported into Spanish. A lot of the Spanish players in Dust, have chosen this game over others because of this.
Stopping to do that could be that thing that would turn them to those other games. Don't eliminate the selling points of your product to reduce costs.
Also, what I told Dalmont about CCP message coming across as us being "second rate customers." If the problem is lack of staff and budget, it would come across much better if CCP simply gave that as a reason, instead of saying that it is because they want "to ensure parity with EVE".
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
604
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Posted - 2014.03.20 11:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
First, let me say that I'm not only complaining about the end of the Spanish support. I think it is a mistake for all the languages involved.
However, being Spanish, most of my experiences are limited to the Spanish community, so those are the only examples I can use.
Rasatsu wrote:They've said it before, for EVE Online, that the spanish-speaking community in the game is way too small to warrant the expenditure.
Maybe the community is small in EVE because the expenditure to support it is accordingly small? What came first, the chicken or the egg? EVE is a very difficult game to get into, much more so than Dust. The fact that is in a different language multiplies that difficulty exponentially. But whatever, the EVE train departed long ago.
Soraya Xel wrote:
But this is DUST, and the Spanish-speaking community here seems to be a fair bit more significant.
Correct. Quite so.
Look to the leaderboards, and you will see quite a few corporations, big and active corporations, at the top, formed by players whose language is going to be supported no longer. LKZ, Venezuela, GAC, MIB, WTF, Quebec, Prima Gallicus, Maphia, etc....
If you look at the non English forums, you will see that the Spanish and Italian forums, 2 languages in the black list, are the most active by far. Even the French forums has certainly no lower activity than the Russian, German and Japanese ones.
Small populations don't have a lot of succesful corps on the leaderboards and the second and third most active forums. The fact is, the Spanish population is quite big in Dust, thanks to the support that CCP has given to it so far. Dust has an opportunity to get a market of player untapped by most other games.
However, continue this road (no GMS, no support,...) and you will certainly acquire parity with EVE. Because the Spanish population in Dust will probably be reduced to EVE levels.
Canari Elphus wrote:When MAG's population started to dwindle, a good amount of the players that remained and continued to play to the end were Spanish/Portuguese speakers.
Exactly. And do you know why it was like that?
Because:
1. MAG That game became free to try. So a lot of people had the chance to try it for free and decide if they wanted to spend money on it.
2. MAG That game had one of the best language localization works I've ever seen in a game. The Spanish one was perfect. Not a single translation mistake, great quality in the voice acting. It was even better than the English one. And not only to Spanish, MAG that game was localized to a ton of languages that are usually ignored. Portuguese, Italian, Polish, Chinese, etc.... And then, they each had their forums (with GMs) that were supported for a long, long time. It was an amazing job, that helped those communities a lot.
Well, Dust has point 1. perfectly in check, since it's a FTP game. There won't be any problems coming from that front. Up to now, point 2. has also been done really well. Even if some translations still make me cringe, all in all Dust localization has been pretty good, at least to Spanish.
So Dust has been doing, until now, the 2 things that helped MAG the game that must not be named retain a big population of Spanish players for years. If they keep doing them, CCP will have a big and loyal community boosting Dust playerbase for a long time. Don't stop doing them.
PD: By the way, CCP should strongly consider adding support for Portuguese in the game, because as Canari Elphus said, Brazil can add a strong and dedicated community for this game as they did in MAG that other game. If they get a little bit of help.
PPD: Thanks for the support, but please, don't use MAG that game's name, you will scare any dev or CCP employee that might be reading this by chance. MAG That game is anathema to them and they will even refuse to look at it or admit it had any qualities.
PPPD: MAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAGMAG |
Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
633
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Posted - 2014.03.22 23:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, I could not login for a couple of days, so I'm afraid that I will reply to all your posts in the following wall of text. I excuse myself in advance.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Anyways I poked for a blue post and one may visit........
.....As CPM I have no influence when it comes to business decisions. I can express how upset you guys are over this but that's the breaks.
First, I want to say that I didn't place your name in the thread because I felt you were involved in this decision in any way. The only reason I named you specifically is because you are the most active CPM on the forums, and I knew you would read the thread and answer. As I posted before, I know that you (the CPM) have no say in the decisions made by CCP.
If as you say, you have poked a dev already about this, then as far as I'm concerned, you already have done almost everything you could. Thank you for that, and please, keep pestering them until they post here, please.
Quote:@xxwhitedevilxx M
Google Translate : I hope it gets better, dear ccp, considering you've fired the only GM who could actually understand Italian. From now on all my post in the "General Discussion" will be in Italian, in a sign of protest.
@Iron Wolf Saber
Google Translate : I hope it gets better, dear ccp, considering we've taken the only GM who could not understand Italian. From now on all my post in the "General Discussion" will be in Italian, in a sign of protest.
:( Dont you hate it that technology COULD potentially put linguist out of a job ><
The merits of Google Translate are not the point of this thread. However, I think linguists don't have cause to worry much at the moment. There is a reason why no one uses GT for anything remotely serious.
Is it me, or GT gave us a translation in the underlined part that could be interpreted as exactly the opposite of what Whitedevil wanted to say in his Italian post?
Remember that people usually don't open support tickets for the fun of it, but because they have issues with the game. Rewards, sp, refunds, Aurum... A bad translation could be a serious issue if money is involved.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: [CCP]...doesn't have the means to support customers in every major language in the world. I mean when was the last time you heard a game use Tagalog?
Of course CCP can't support and translate the game into every language existing in the world.
However, if at release date CCP had launched DUST translated and supported into Tagalog, I would expect CCP to keep that support. Otherwise, I would understand that players from the Philippines would have a legit cause for complaining about being mistreated.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ... this does give some opportunities for the most committed bilinguals of the game some leadership role.
That's one way of looking at it. The way I look at it is that the flow of information from CCP to the community and viceversa, will be restricted to the minority of middlemen that can speak two languages.
I mean, sure, it is an opportunity for some people, but it is a loss for most of the community.
The chances for any info that comes through those bilingual middlemen to be altered will always be there, however remote.
CCP is the only source of info that can be trusted to be neutral and accurate. And not always.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:This also allows for leaders to rise up to be a rally point with issues.
Great advice. Well, I want to lead nothing, but pointing an issue is exactly what this thread is about.
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Flyingconejo
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
633
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Posted - 2014.03.22 23:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Luckily this also does not restrict the community team from having members that can post in the other language without having to use google translate
I'm not sure I understand this.
If by community team you mean a CCP employee, like CCP Logibro, that could post for example a dev blog in another language he knew, well, I guess the possibility is there. But it is a very remote possibility. Even in English, the blogs from the devs are scarce.
If by community team you mean the player community, well, that's exactly what we have been doing for months. The debate here is who is the lucky one. CCP certainly, after all, they have someone doing their job for free.
Not so sure about the player community being lucky.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
As for GM and forum moderation; there is nothing much more you, me and CCP can do outside of trying to get a bilingual spanish community team member on the task who isn't part of the GM house.
As before, I'm not sure I understand this. If by bilingual Spanish Community Team member we are talking about a current CCP employee, like CCP Logibro, that could be made to at least moderate the forums now and then, then yes, that would be a good idea.
If you mean getting a player from the Spanish community as moderator, then I can see some problems with that. If he is not given moderating powers, he would not be able to actually keep the forums in order.
And if he were given moderating powers, accusations of being biased and abusing moderating powers to give advantage to his corp, his alliance, him/herself, etc...ne would appear 10 seconds after he made his first ban, lock or edit. Without CCP's backing, he would have an impossible job.
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