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Tanks are still OP and they will remain that way...

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NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1163	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:29:00 - [1] - Quote - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Reapers' Assailant 942	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:37:00 - [2] - Quote I only tank to get EZ-mode blaster tanks away from my teammates. All you have to do is be aware. That's it. No skill. It takes more skill to pop blasters with a Rail then to blast infantry. My Sica will 2-shot any garbage tank without a problem. Psycho Scout Speedy McFaster- Psycho Logi Cool McCoolNess- Psycho Pilot
Xirian Fin Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 3	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:52:00 - [3] - Quote i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Yup
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 653	Posted - 2014.03.18 12:57:00 - [4] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right I clearly recall your entire squad, yesterday, spamming tanks and dropships. Needless to say after that match I logged out of dust. Your squad ruined my 3 match streak of no tanks being deployed on either side... Dust was fun for a moment... Newb
Lorhak Gannarsein Science For Death 2176	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:08:00 - [5] - Quote I only tank because I have ten million SP into it. QQ moar. Real men do it with missiles. "True says I have to let Lorhak yell at people in PIE GC from now on."
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 138	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:17:00 - [6] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Forge gun doesn't count because you need a heavy slot? Now I'm not a fan of tanks & I want them nerfed to **, but this is stupid, shall we dismiss the rail rifle as being an anti infantry weapon because it requires a light weapon slot, which not all suits can equip? You've also forgotten the Laser cannon, it may be difficult to use, but some people can make it quite effective. You also forgot remote explosives, which even without an LAV attached to them are quite effective, even if you can't be bothered to stick them to the tank, or leave them on the floor until a tank drives over it, you can also attach them to a dropship, park it on top of them, then climb out and detonate... Boom! Tanks are fine, it's damage mods, large turrets & armour repair modules that are the problem... Price could possibly use an increase.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 758	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:26:00 - [7] - Quote Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Unless the Pilot is smart and brings either another (or two or three) tanks to support him, or has supporting Infantry. The thing is in the current state you can beat stupid tankers with teamwork with ease (you can also solo them). But against smart Pilots working together AV is helpless, the same is true if the Pilot brings some Infantry with them... So in general 5 Tanks > 5 AV (assuming both either work together or solo) 1 Tank 4 AI infantry men > 5 AV (assuming both sides work together) That leads to 5 of Team A > 5 of Team B this is a problem as long as we have equal team sizes....
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 233	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:31:00 - [8] - Quote plasma cannon and AV nades need buff u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 233	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:35:00 - [9] - Quote Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. right i've seen this more lately people are putting effort into killing the tank, we usually descend on with dropship. XT-missile sometimes steals the kill but the important thing is someone lost a tank, my gunner gets WP and i stay at the bottom of scoreboard. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 158	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:35:00 - [10] - Quote The tanks are decent. If AV was slightly modified it would be pretty balanced. Swarms are explosive damage and most ground troops try and kill shield tanks with them. Infantry needs to be smarter. If you see AV killin tanks keep the reds off of them. Everyone has to do something. Every player is capable of using a sica rail. Scanners, flux, REs. There's tons of things you can bring to the table. You don't have to run AVprimary but be prepared to help out. I killed a tank 3days ago with a templar ScP.

Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 983	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:44:00 - [11] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Forge gun doesn't count because you need a heavy slot? Now I'm not a fan of tanks & I want them nerfed to **, but this is stupid, shall we dismiss the rail rifle as being an anti infantry weapon because it requires a light weapon slot, which not all suits can equip? You've also forgotten the Laser cannon, it may be difficult to use, but some people can make it quite effective. You also forgot remote explosives, which even without an LAV attached to them are quite effective, even if you can't be bothered to stick them to the tank, or leave them on the floor until a tank drives over it, you can also attach them to a dropship, park it on top of them, then climb out and detonate... Boom! Tanks are fine, it's damage mods, large turrets & armour repair modules that are the problem... Price could possibly use an increase. Which suit can't equip the rail rifle? Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 983	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:46:00 - [12] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: The tanks are decent. If AV was slightly modified it would be pretty balanced. Swarms are explosive damage and most ground troops try and kill shield tanks with them. Infantry needs to be smarter. If you see AV killin tanks keep the reds off of them. Everyone has to do something. Every player is capable of using a sica rail. Scanners, flux, REs. There's tons of things you can bring to the table. You don't have to run AVprimary but be prepared to help out. I killed a tank 3days ago with a templar ScP. When CCP gives us an AV weapon effective against shields we'll use it. And don't say the plasma cannon because that's no AV weapon. Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Takron Nistrom Tinfoil Hatz 261	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:46:00 - [13] - Quote The way I see it is this: 1). Tanks in their current state should be soloable because they dont cost any more than dropsuits do, and they are pretty much a dropsuit variant, so increase the cost to pre 1.7 2). You want to be killed by more than 1 merc? REQUIRE there to be however many mercs in your tank to run it, as you wanna be killed by. You wanna be killed by 4 mercs, your tank needs 4 mercs in it before it will drive. Then I'll accept tanks being killing machines. GÇ£Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)GÇ¥ GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5846	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:54:00 - [14] - Quote Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Nor should you be able to easily solo AV inside a tank. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Bax Zanith 89	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:56:00 - [15] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Well, I really didn't want to do this, but it looks like I'll have to spek into rail tanks to fight tank spame now. I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
Sam Booty Valor Coalition 40	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:56:00 - [16] - Quote The major problem is that they continuously nerfed swarms and AV grenades. Tanks are not the only problem, dropships are also the problem. With 1.8 further nerfs: - Swarms are going to be nerfed because of nerf to damage mods - You can only carry 2 AV grenades So what is CCP going to do to compensate these additional nerfs? I agree with only carrying 2 locus grenades but CCP needs to buff Swarm and AV grenade damage by at least 50%. Also make swarm missile speed much faster. Why can a dropship outrun a swarm missile? This is stupid. Once the missile is locked the dropship can still avoid being hit by turning behind a building. That's OK and makes sense. Just make the freaking swarm missiles faster.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1091	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:56:00 - [17] - Quote Let my nova knives to full damage to a tank and I will be happy :)
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3267	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:57:00 - [18] - Quote Why would someone start a thread complaining about anything literally hours before the 1.8 patch notes? CCP is aware that tanks are not balanced and have said they have some tweaks planned. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5846	Posted - 2014.03.18 13:58:00 - [19] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Why would someone start a thread complaining about anything literally hours before the 1.8 patch notes? CCP is aware that tanks are not balanced and have said they have some tweaks planned. When? Acording to the CPM, CCP has no plans for adjusting vehicles in Uprising 1.8. Links please. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3267	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:01:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Why would someone start a thread complaining about anything literally hours before the 1.8 patch notes? CCP is aware that tanks are not balanced and have said they have some tweaks planned. When? Acording to the CPM, CCP has no plans for adjusting vehicles in Uprising 1.8. Links please. I don't bookmark everything CCP says but I do remember one comment by CCP Saberwing. I think the plan is to adjust the cost of tanks. I haven't seen anything about fixing AV though. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana

Nirwanda Vaughns Death Firm. 443	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:03:00 - [21] - Quote in 1.8 tanks will be more invincible until AV is re-balanced. swarms already do pathetic damage even at proto level and 3x complex DMs with the DM nerf they'll be even worse and we lose a packed AV nade too. some ideas i batted about were 1. the damage of AV needs to be at back to pre-nerf. 2. a hislot mod which give 30%, 40%, 50% (no stacking penalty) to lock range of swarms so AV guys choose between either further lock or higher damage. that way upclose and personal vs tanks you get high damage whereas vs dropships you're able to lock them but the damage is lower. 3. New swarm launcher specialization skills. Swarm missile flight time, swarm missile velocity. 10% per level to each. that way it allows us better chance of hitting fleeing vehicles. 4. Stasis Webbifier equipment. this basically works the same as in EVE. its an equipment item which locks onto an enemy vehicle like a repair tool, but reduces the max speed of the vehicle by say STD - 40% 25m range ADV - 60% 30m range PRO - 80% 35m range this way it gives AV'ers chance ot get more locks in but the tankers can shoot the infantry using the webber and may influence tankers ot start running a secondary gunner again. one or more of the above would help make AV vs tanks more fun and tactical again Rolling with the punches
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 3267	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:04:00 - [22] - Quote Also, CCP doesn't announce price changes to avoid stockpiling. If there is a change to HAV pricing they'll keep it quiet until after the change. Adapt or Die // Republic Lance Commander // @ReesNoturana
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5847	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:08:00 - [23] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Also, CCP doesn't announce price changes to avoid stockpiling. If there is a change to HAV pricing they'll keep it quiet until after the change. And? You could make them 900k. Won't stop them from being OP, nor will it stop people with crud tons of ISK from spamming them. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Incin3rate New Age Empire. 55	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:14:00 - [24] - Quote Wait until proto hulls for vehicles.
Angus McBeanie Seraphim Initiative.. 44	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:18:00 - [25] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: in 1.8 tanks will be more invincible until AV is re-balanced. swarms already do pathetic damage even at proto level and 3x complex DMs with the DM nerf they'll be even worse and we lose a packed AV nade too. some ideas i batted about were 1. the damage of AV needs to be at back to pre-nerf. 2. a hislot mod which give 30%, 40%, 50% (no stacking penalty) to lock range of swarms so AV guys choose between either further lock or higher damage. that way upclose and personal vs tanks you get high damage whereas vs dropships you're able to lock them but the damage is lower. 3. New swarm launcher specialization skills. Swarm missile flight time, swarm missile velocity. 10% per level to each. that way it allows us better chance of hitting fleeing vehicles. 4. Stasis Webbifier equipment. this basically works the same as in EVE. its an equipment item which locks onto an enemy vehicle like a repair tool, but reduces the max speed of the vehicle by say STD - 40% 25m range ADV - 60% 30m range PRO - 80% 35m range this way it gives AV'ers chance ot get more locks in but the tankers can shoot the infantry using the webber and may influence tankers ot start running a secondary gunner again. one or more of the above would help make AV vs tanks more fun and tactical again Yet, I come back to the game, go into an ambush, meet a madrugar with Ion cannon, he puts his hardner on. I still ripped off nearly half his armor in one volley with my wyrkomi with 2 proto dmg mods. The problem is more likely the amount of tanks that can be called in, in ambush games. I cannot fight 3 tanks, while I have infantry shooting at me in an ambush games. Further, i'm pretty sure, alot of you will have it easier playing Domination or Skirmishes, as tanks are easier to take out. Again, it's the AMOUNT of tanks, that can be called in, in AMBUSH matches that are ruining it in my opinion. These tanks are nothing compared to the tanks existing, just when the game launched into beta. Invincible missile tanks.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3021	Posted - 2014.03.18 14:26:00 - [26] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles Intelligence is OP
Copharus Arkana Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:01:00 - [27] - Quote Bax Zanith wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Well, I really didn't want to do this, but it looks like I'll have to spek into rail tanks to fight tank spame now. Stay the ** out of our tanks you scrub! Just use a SL and team work. You will be fine.
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 251	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:02:00 - [28] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right No weapon is useless. Swarms just require a bit too much team work. It takes 4 mlt swarms to scare a tank Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 252	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:17:00 - [29] - Quote Pure AV fit for 1.8: - Commando suit - Either Gallente or Minmatar (Thanks, CCP, for giving the swarmer damage bonus not to Caldari ) - PLC to strip shields - Swarmer to strip armor - REs for situation where the cover grants the necessary advantage - Alternatively, nanohives due to the low ammo values in the two weapons Considering the fact that PLCs easily strip shields, while swarmers need all the buffing they can get, the Minmatar Commando will likely be the better skill investment. Don't even attempt to armor up. I don't know the slot layouts, but damage mods should be used if possible (despite their downgrade), as well as kin cats for more effective RE usage. Dunno what you would put on the lows if you decide to use a nanohive. Maybe an Ewar module, if tank signatures and scanner strength are fixed. So yes, AV actually got buffed. Now you can get a 5% damage mod with a 10% skill damage increase, as well as +25% reload speed on a PLC. If you run with a friend, you can negate the reload cycle on the swarmer for six shots before reloading. Which is very important for speedy tanks. The other guy can use a PLC to strip the shields and another gun for anti-infantry.
Supernus Gigas sNk Syndicate 476	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:23:00 - [30] - Quote Y'all want to solo tanks? Here I'll tell you how to solo tanks, it'll most likely change in 1.8, but it's what I've been using for a while. ADV Amarr Heavy Frame Two Complex Heavy Damage Mods Enhanced CardReg Basic Armor Rep Wiyrkomi Breach Forge Gun STD SMG C-7 Flux Grenades One shot to the weakspot of the tank and it goes kablooey unless it's stacking plates and/or extenders or has it's hardener on. If plates/extenders are the case then a simple follow up shot will do as it'll barely have any HP left.. In the case of a hardener, why the hell are you shooting at a tank with it's hardener up? I'm fairly sure you could pull this off with a DCMA-5 as well, but I personally haven't tried it yet as I've just been burning through my stockpile of Wiyrkomis. Smoke 'em if ya got 'em and all that. *FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!*

Bax Zanith 89	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:33:00 - [31] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: Well, I really didn't want to do this, but it looks like I'll have to spek into rail tanks to fight tank spame now. Stay the **** out of our tanks you scrub! Just use a SL and team work. You will be fine. Funny you should say that, because most of the time I feel like I'm the only AV guy in dust. When I'm faced with tank spam I pull out my plasma cannon. The plasma cannon doesn't help me much, but my main AV weapone is the remote explosive; I like to place them on tanks when they aren't looking. More then half the time I'm caught in the act and then the tanker hops out and blows me away with a HMG. When I'm faced with tank spam, I look around at my team and see maybe one forge gun, proto if I'm lucky. I also see the oddball one or two AV starter fits. I once tried to form an AV squad. Every channel I'm connected to laughed at me and said it was hopeless. From what iv gathered in the forums it would seem like the only AV team that can stop a militia tank is a tryhard proto team. I'm not much of a fan of JLAVs, with no squad to AV with, what option do I have left? I'd say walk in my shoes for a day, but you probably still won't understand.
laflash What The French Red Whines. 12	Posted - 2014.03.18 15:43:00 - [32] - Quote How to fix it: bas adv pro Shield Hardener : 40% 50% 60% (keep the same cooling time) Armor Hardener: 20% 30% 40% (keep the same cooling time) Damager : 10% 20% 30% (keep the same cooling time) -remove the stack of hardener and damager Change limit spam sica and soma on map. Sorry for my bad english
lrian Locust Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 374	Posted - 2014.03.18 16:37:00 - [33] - Quote Rework swarms - they've been quadruple-nerfed (damage mods, range, base damage, and targeting). A nerf was needed, but this is too much. How often do you still see successful swarmers? Here's an idea: Diversify swarm launchers with an obvious trade-off: e.g. long range, low damage vs. short range, high damage. Take the current Swarm Launchers and create different versions by increasing one of their traits: - one with +20% damage (no, that's not too much) - one with increased locking and shooting range. In addition, add an AV+AP version that allows you to shoot one bullet manually on AP, WITHOUT the locking opportunity. This way the merc can have a limited AP-role as well. Finally, add a version that can shoot AV manually without tracking. The loss of locking enables this weapon to shoot swarms at a faster rate. Ideal for close combat.
Derpty Derp It's All Gone Derp 139	Posted - 2014.03.18 16:42:00 - [34] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Which suit can't equip the rail rifle? One of the logistics suits can only use sidearms, lol.
lAssassinl Zer0 Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.03.18 16:56:00 - [35] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Let's do some maths : Militia can go for 6000 ehp, a Shield booster, and an Harderner with osme ksills (less than 200K Sp). To get down these 6000ehp it needs more than 40 sec of continuous fire from AT LEAST four AV player. (With the fact he can use booster / hardener / can go away since he's faster than Swars rocket. Actually it's IMPOSSIBLE to destroy a Tank (Or a Dropship) without an another Tank or AT LEAST 4 Forger Gun. (I mean with a driver who havem ore than 0.000002 of IQ.) Have you already try to get down an Assault Dropship ? We were 6 shooting at him with Swarms (Advanced with several damagem ods) , AV grenades and Plasma Cannons during 30 sec he was not even moving and was 5 m high. We didn't destroy him he flyes away, and faster than our rockets, they ocldn't go faster than him. GG CCP, an Assault dropships can survive 30 sec of continuos fire without moving ! Can we have Dropsuits that is approx 50000000000ehp with 99% damage reduction and 80 Complex damagem ods ? Even with that we oculdn't destroy any vehicule.
lAssassinl Zer0 Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.03.18 16:59:00 - [36] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: Rework swarms - they've been quadruple-nerfed (damage mods, range, base damage, and targeting). A nerf was needed, but this is too much. How often do you still see successful swarmers? Here's an idea: Diversify swarm launchers with an obvious trade-off: e.g. long range, low damage vs. short range, high damage. Take the current Swarm Launchers and create different versions by increasing one of their traits: - one with +20% damage (no, that's not too much) - one with increased locking and shooting range. In addition, add an AV+AP version that allows you to shoot one bullet manually on AP, WITHOUT the locking opportunity. This way the merc can have a limited AP-role as well. Finally, add a version that can shoot AV manually without tracking. The loss of locking enables this weapon to shoot swarms at a faster rate. Ideal for close combat. 20% is NOT too much, DAMN these tanks are MILITIA OR STD. Why 8 people with Proto AV gear can't destroy it ?????? A simple Hardener and they are INVICIBLE. And with the fact they can fit 2/3 they are INVICIBLE at ANY TIME. Problem with vehicules are Harderners, CCP didn't think people would fit 2 and then use one when the other is over, waiting coold down and finally be in hardeners ALWAYS...
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 987	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:00:00 - [37] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles Dude, you have talked so much BS on these forums defending your OP crutch that you have absolutely zero credibility. You want easy mode LOL tanks to pad your KDR and then somehow convince yourself you're a good player. Its laughable Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5851	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:01:00 - [38] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Which suit can't equip the rail rifle? One of the logistics suits can only use sidearms, lol. Which one? AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1412	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:04:00 - [39] - Quote If all goes well in 1.8, I feel sorry for the tankers as they will become public enemy #1 again. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 236	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:22:00 - [40] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [quote=NAV HIV] 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in proxies are another broken item vehicles pass right over and do not go off. another broken item... u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3026	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:32:00 - [41] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles Dude, you have talked so much BS on these forums defending your OP crutch that you have absolutely zero credibility. You want easy mode LOL tanks to pad your KDR and then somehow convince yourself you're a good player. Its laughable Cry moar I tanked in PC during the dark days of pre 1.7 where OP AV could take out all vehicles Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3026	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:32:00 - [42] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: [quote=NAV HIV] 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in proxies are another broken item vehicles pass right over and do not go off. another broken item... Proxies do go off whenever ive hit em but you can drive quite close and they wont go off Intelligence is OP
Nirwanda Vaughns Death Firm. 443	Posted - 2014.03.18 17:35:00 - [43] - Quote Angus McBeanie wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: in 1.8 tanks will be more invincible until AV is re-balanced. swarms already do pathetic damage even at proto level and 3x complex DMs with the DM nerf they'll be even worse and we lose a packed AV nade too. some ideas i batted about were 1. the damage of AV needs to be at back to pre-nerf. 2. a hislot mod which give 30%, 40%, 50% (no stacking penalty) to lock range of swarms so AV guys choose between either further lock or higher damage. that way upclose and personal vs tanks you get high damage whereas vs dropships you're able to lock them but the damage is lower. 3. New swarm launcher specialization skills. Swarm missile flight time, swarm missile velocity. 10% per level to each. that way it allows us better chance of hitting fleeing vehicles. 4. Stasis Webbifier equipment. this basically works the same as in EVE. its an equipment item which locks onto an enemy vehicle like a repair tool, but reduces the max speed of the vehicle by say STD - 40% 25m range ADV - 60% 30m range PRO - 80% 35m range this way it gives AV'ers chance ot get more locks in but the tankers can shoot the infantry using the webber and may influence tankers ot start running a secondary gunner again. one or more of the above would help make AV vs tanks more fun and tactical again Yet, I come back to the game, go into an ambush, meet a madrugar with Ion cannon, he puts his hardner on. I still ripped off nearly half his armor in one volley with my wyrkomi with 2 proto dmg mods. The problem is more likely the amount of tanks that can be called in, in ambush games. I cannot fight 3 tanks, while I have infantry shooting at me in an ambush games. Further, i'm pretty sure, alot of you will have it easier playing Domination or Skirmishes, as tanks are easier to take out. Again, it's the AMOUNT of tanks, that can be called in, in AMBUSH matches that are ruining it in my opinion. These tanks are nothing compared to the tanks existing, just when the game launched into beta. Invincible missile tanks. then that was a very poorly fit maddy. i have prof 3 and 3 complex damage mods and carry lai dai packed av nades and after tthrowing all 3 nades right next to it and hitting with 2 rounds from my swarms he was still at half armor (with his hardener running) before he was out of range. its not so much the lack of damage its the fact that vehicles are also too quick you don't have much of a chance to actually hit a vehicle before they run to the red line and/or out of the swarms lock range. even forge guys struggle because you get a shot off and the tanks just hit hardeners and overdrivers and they're off, thus being my reasoning for webbers. and also lock range mods would help hit DS' who try to run but seeing as thier EHP is lower it balances that swarms balance between lock range and damage mods was talking about it and me and few friends agreed that it shoudl take 3 dedicated AV'ers of the respective class to take a vehicle down. 3 basic swarms/nades to take a militia tank down or 2 advanded or 1 proto. for a madrugar/gunloggi 3 ADV swarms or 6 basic or 2 proto ect. with forge guns it should take 2 guys of equivalent class. if i have prof 5 on my forge guns with 2 complex damage mods i shoudl be able to have a militia tank in flames from the first hit, at basic and advanced levels there is no point to swarms. the damage dealt is utterly laughable, even an LAV shrugs them off Rolling with the punches
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:41:00 - [44] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right I clearly recall your entire squad, yesterday, spamming tanks and dropships. Needless to say after that match I logged out of dust. Your squad ruined my 3 match streak of no tanks being deployed on either side... Dust was fun for a moment... I'm sorry about that. But my point exactly. All three of those tankers were just playing around with tanks, Not even considered tankers... So if you had AV that worked against non tanking tankers, things would've been different
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:43:00 - [45] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Forge gun doesn't count because you need a heavy slot? Now I'm not a fan of tanks & I want them nerfed to **, but this is stupid, shall we dismiss the rail rifle as being an anti infantry weapon because it requires a light weapon slot, which not all suits can equip? You've also forgotten the Laser cannon, it may be difficult to use, but some people can make it quite effective. You also forgot remote explosives, which even without an LAV attached to them are quite effective, even if you can't be bothered to stick them to the tank, or leave them on the floor until a tank drives over it, you can also attach them to a dropship, park it on top of them, then climb out and detonate... Boom! Tanks are fine, it's damage mods, large turrets & armour repair modules that are the problem... Price could possibly use an increase. Can i equip a FG on my Assault Suit ?! --- NO Should i have an alternative ?! --- Yes Swarms ?! --- Sure if it worked ( I want my SP back for it) I mentioned REs ... Please read....
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1172	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:44:00 - [46] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Unless the Pilot is smart and brings either another (or two or three) tanks to support him, or has supporting Infantry. The thing is in the current state you can beat stupid tankers with teamwork with ease (you can also solo them). But against smart Pilots working together AV is helpless, the same is true if the Pilot brings some Infantry with them... So in general 5 Tanks > 5 AV (assuming both either work together or solo) 1 Tank 4 AI infantry men > 5 AV (assuming both sides work together) That leads to 5 of Team A > 5 of Team B this is a problem as long as we have equal team sizes.... I think the current limit is 6-7 tanks ?! How many AVs would we need for that ?!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8358	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:47:00 - [47] - Quote Ah you pointed something out to me that I cannot in good conscience argue against. I didn't factor in the nerf to damage modules..... perhaps then a slight AV buff is required.....but you would have to call upon dropshipper and more lightly armoured vehicle frames to comment on this since any direct buffs to AV will hurt them more than it will HAV. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 764	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:48:00 - [48] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles Well we once had dumbfire swarms...apart from that the lock on mechanic makes swarms a niche weonon they can only be used against vehicles whereas the forges allows AI as well....
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1173	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:50:00 - [49] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles All your points just proves what i wanted to say... AV is ** and will remain so.. and tankers will look for more crutches cause 5k hp vs 600hp would always sound good to those who needs it the most...
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1886	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:51:00 - [50] - Quote Atiim wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Nor should you be able to easily solo AV inside a tank. When he is 200m away on a tower constantly jumping back or hanging back with a breach jumping forward and then retreating back to charge some AV are quite impossible to kill. Team carry Prof. IV I am a carried scrub!

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1173	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:51:00 - [51] - Quote Copharus Arkana wrote: Bax Zanith wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, ** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Well, I really didn't want to do this, but it looks like I'll have to spek into rail tanks to fight tank spame now. Stay the ** out of our tanks you scrub! Just use a SL and team work. You will be fine. My 2mil SP swarm can't tickle a SOMA!!! So yes i'm a 42 mil SP Scrub lol
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1173	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:52:00 - [52] - Quote Dauth Jenkins wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right No weapon is useless. Swarms just require a bit too much team work. It takes 4 mlt swarms to scare a tank How many swarms for 2,3 or even 5 tanks on at the same time ?!
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1173	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:53:00 - [53] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Nor should you be able to easily solo AV inside a tank. When he is 200m away on a tower constantly jumping back or hanging back with a breach jumping forward and then retreating back to charge some AV are quite impossible to kill. Isn't it better than Redline rail tankers ?! Atleast these forge gunners are inside the map...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1173	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:54:00 - [54] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right 1.They generally are, if my main turret is weaker than the portable handheld version then something is wrong tho the breach FG is lovely to use 2. Against shield and shiny tanks 3. Made for heavy suits in mind, this is not medium frame 514 no matter how much you cry about it 4. Secondary AV weapon for extra damage, also still home in on target and never miss, want more damage? then get rid of the auto seeking crutch so your aim actually has to do the work 5. Its mainly to improve TTK for infantry 6. ISK is not a factor - Well thats what AV used to say when it was 20k worth of AV nades able to kill a 2mil tank but now the shoe is on the other foot and they dont like it 7. My FG still works, so does swarms that i have seen, also proxy can but are not used and RE work very well, AV nades are good at getting a bit more damage in 8. MLT tanks effective, thats something you dont say everyday So far 3 months of lovely vehicles Well we once had dumbfire swarms...apart from that the lock on mechanic makes swarms a niche weonon they can only be used against vehicles whereas the forges allows AI as well.... Swarms vs tank It's like the Road runner show...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3145	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:57:00 - [55] - Quote Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. You were facing completely inept infantry if you were lucky enough to pull this off ML Director Eve Toon - Raylan Scott Level 3 Forum Warrior
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2033	Posted - 2014.03.18 19:58:00 - [56] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: The tanks are decent. If AV was slightly modified it would be pretty balanced. Swarms are explosive damage and most ground troops try and kill shield tanks with them. Infantry needs to be smarter. If you see AV killin tanks keep the reds off of them. Everyone has to do something. Every player is capable of using a sica rail. Scanners, flux, REs. There's tons of things you can bring to the table. You don't have to run AVprimary but be prepared to help out. I killed a tank 3days ago with a templar ScP. When CCP gives us an AV weapon effective against shields we'll use it. And don't say the plasma cannon because that's no AV weapon. What? The PLC is great against vehicles, I have an advanced with no other skills in it and works well. If I were to max it out it would be very powerful, a PLC round and one flux will drop shields and if they are hardened it will make them run. A good PLCer is very effective against shield HAVs. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 1886	Posted - 2014.03.18 20:02:00 - [57] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Atiim wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Nor should you be able to easily solo AV inside a tank. When he is 200m away on a tower constantly jumping back or hanging back with a breach jumping forward and then retreating back to charge some AV are quite impossible to kill. Isn't it better than Redline rail tankers ?! Atleast these forge gunners are inside the map... I was just Proving a point, I have respect for the guy using the FG on the tower not those Like LDocHolidayL who have Prof. V dual complex damage modded Proto FG's who come at me with Sica's and then sit in the redline with that fails. Team carry Prof. IV I am a carried scrub!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8359	Posted - 2014.03.18 20:06:00 - [58] - Quote If I could weigh im at all on this conversation I would suggest to Atiim that he remember first, and my statement comes in two parts, that we are firing cannon much larger than anything you have access to, and as such infantry being HIT, by that will suffer from the forces of that cannon as they do in ALL FPS games.......BUT I hear what you are saying. AV should have a means to solo, with EFFORT, an HAV unit. The fact they cannot I somewhat attribute to map design primarily as we do not have urban environments and or areas with significant cover to allow you proper position to take advantage of your fire power and mobility to outmanoeuvre us. However I stand by, and all will, the need for AV engagement zones and HAV engagement zones to over lap allowing both sides the capacity to engage and destroy one another. I cannot support the manipulation of natural efficiencies of weapons to make certain types more effective against certain vehicle types....that is breaking of immersion and not a fair or balanced game mechanic. I can support a slight AV damage buff to compensate for the nerf of damage modules, that to me make sense. I heavily support the tweaking of HAV themselves to balance around static AV values. Disclaimer: I too am not satisfied with the balance between AV and HAV.....but I also do not want to see balance revert to something like 1.3-1.5 where HAVers could not see the source of AV, nor engage it. That I felt was poor mechanics. " ..- -.- --. I wish I remembered morse code so I wasn't typing random letters" - Malleus Malificorum
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5856	Posted - 2014.03.18 20:41:00 - [59] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Zahle Undt wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: The tanks are decent. If AV was slightly modified it would be pretty balanced. Swarms are explosive damage and most ground troops try and kill shield tanks with them. Infantry needs to be smarter. If you see AV killin tanks keep the reds off of them. Everyone has to do something. Every player is capable of using a sica rail. Scanners, flux, REs. There's tons of things you can bring to the table. You don't have to run AVprimary but be prepared to help out. I killed a tank 3days ago with a templar ScP. When CCP gives us an AV weapon effective against shields we'll use it. And don't say the plasma cannon because that's no AV weapon. What? The PLC is great against vehicles, I have an advanced with no other skills in it and works well. If I were to max it out it would be very powerful, a PLC round and one flux will drop shields and if they are hardened it will make them run. A good PLCer is very effective against shield HAVs. Want to bet? Your PLC vs. My. Gunnlogi. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1175	Posted - 2014.03.19 12:35:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: If I could weigh im at all on this conversation I would suggest to Atiim that he remember first, and my statement comes in two parts, that we are firing cannon much larger than anything you have access to, and as such infantry being HIT, by that will suffer from the forces of that cannon as they do in ALL FPS games.......BUT I hear what you are saying. AV should have a means to solo, with EFFORT, an HAV unit. The fact they cannot I somewhat attribute to map design primarily as we do not have urban environments and or areas with significant cover to allow you proper position to take advantage of your fire power and mobility to outmanoeuvre us. However I stand by, and all will, the need for AV engagement zones and HAV engagement zones to over lap allowing both sides the capacity to engage and destroy one another. I cannot support the manipulation of natural efficiencies of weapons to make certain types more effective against certain vehicle types....that is breaking of immersion and not a fair or balanced game mechanic. I can support a slight AV damage buff to compensate for the nerf of damage modules, that to me make sense. I heavily support the tweaking of HAV themselves to balance around static AV values. Disclaimer: I too am not satisfied with the balance between AV and HAV.....but I also do not want to see balance revert to something like 1.3-1.5 where HAVers could not see the source of AV, nor engage it. That I felt was poor mechanics. Very well said... We don't need to change the vehicle stats or anything. May be change the cost of Sica and Somas and make the SP requirement slightly higher to gain access to Gunlogi and Madrugar ?! This way only people driving Madrugars are gunlogis would be the players who really invested time and effort to gain access to the vehicle. Not your typical Maddy and Gaunlogi with mlt blaster and Mlt rail peeps....

Charlotte O'Dell Sooper Speshul Ponee Fors Dropsuit Samurai 2210	Posted - 2014.03.19 12:59:00 - [61] - Quote nerf it buff its counter. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1175	Posted - 2014.03.19 13:37:00 - [62] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: nerf it buff its counter. Wouldn't be a wise choice. Would have to support AV is OP threads then lol Tank stats are great. Just no proper counter to it. Specially if there are 2 or more tanks
Cinnamon267 92	Posted - 2014.03.20 05:59:00 - [63] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: - Tanks are way more powerful than Any kind of AV (JLAV doesn't count, since it's not listed as AV) - Swarms = useless - FG = only for heavy suits. - AV nades = well with 3 nades, still useless. CCP is reducing the number of nades i hear - Damage mods = getting nerfed (Less damage from Swarms and FG) - Cost of AV > Cost of Tanks (Compare SP and ISK both) - Effectiveness of AV = LOL - Effectiveness of Tank = Every tom, **** and harry can have one And you need l33t tanking skills to survive... Right Swarms aren't useless. They can be very effective. Taken out several with me and one other person firing swarms. You just need more than one person. And I've noticed people treat tanks like homeless people. Just ignore them and keep moving. FG....yeah. Sure. Only heavies have the, and I rarely see them. AV nades are useless... Even more so after 1.8 where we only get two. Might just drop grenades altogether. More PG/CPU for other stuff. AV is weird, right now.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 895	Posted - 2014.03.20 06:08:00 - [64] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Unless the Pilot is smart and brings either another (or two or three) tanks to support him, or has supporting Infantry. The thing is in the current state you can beat stupid tankers with teamwork with ease (you can also solo them). But against smart Pilots working together AV is helpless, the same is true if the Pilot brings some Infantry with them... So in general 5 Tanks > 5 AV (assuming both either work together or solo) 1 Tank 4 AI infantry men > 5 AV (assuming both sides work together) That leads to 5 of Team A > 5 of Team B this is a problem as long as we have equal team sizes.... So teamwork is OP? Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 224	Posted - 2014.03.20 07:18:00 - [65] - Quote well until then im really enjoying free kills VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8476	Posted - 2014.03.20 07:46:00 - [66] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Xirian Fin wrote: i was playing with my corp last night and were taking down tanks left and right with a combo of swarms and forges without dmg mods in the suits. it is possible. it takes teamwork and someone to call it out and ask for help taking it out. tanks are very hard to solo on foot. it can be done cause I have seen it. but in pubs when u are soloing it it becomes hard. I just learn to avoid the roads and trails when tanks are on the field. I will agree that milita tanks are just a little op but I don't think u should be able to easily solo a tank. Unless the Pilot is smart and brings either another (or two or three) tanks to support him, or has supporting Infantry. The thing is in the current state you can beat stupid tankers with teamwork with ease (you can also solo them). But against smart Pilots working together AV is helpless, the same is true if the Pilot brings some Infantry with them... So in general 5 Tanks > 5 AV (assuming both either work together or solo) 1 Tank 4 AI infantry men > 5 AV (assuming both sides work together) That leads to 5 of Team A > 5 of Team B this is a problem as long as we have equal team sizes.... So teamwork is OP? Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Sam Booty Valor Coalition Red Whines. 47	Posted - 2014.03.20 10:15:00 - [67] - Quote At the moment, the only effective AVs are rail tanks.
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2055	Posted - 2014.03.20 10:46:00 - [68] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1429	Posted - 2014.03.20 12:50:00 - [69] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. No. It results in a massive isk loss for the AV with many infantry deaths and with so many infantry going av this gives the enemy an infantry advantage resulting in a few dead tanks but a lost match for the side trying to kill the tanks. A defeat screen is never fun plus toss in lost isk and for many it becomes talk to the sig. Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1187	Posted - 2014.03.20 12:57:00 - [70] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. Forget about PC. Both sides have equal amount of tanks usually. Please help me out with this > If i am in a Dom/Ambush/Skirmish with a full squad and the opponents spam 5 tanks.... What kind of strategy would you suggest if i want to win the game... - Ambush depends on which team deploys the first tank - I need to cap the objective in a dom to have chance at winning. with only 6 players in the squad if i have 3 proto AVers i'm left with 3 other players with random blueberries. You are going to need more than 3 to fight a Maddy or Gunlogi... So what are you supposed to do with the other 4 tanks and 11 red dots. ?! If you need the one guy from the squad to support the Avers, you would be left with 2 players. Assuming they are beastly slayers... They'd still need to fight 11 Red dots.. How ?! The answer would be a fully loaded slayer suit which could cost from 100k to 220k... (Still more expensive than a SOMA/SICA) They would die multiple times cause 5 tanks on the field, one of them are bound to hit them even if 11 red dots can't... If one of those slayers die more than twice, even if they win the match they'd be at loss of ISK... 2 Deaths would be close to a well fitted Maddy or Gunlogi.... So it's easy to preach and yell about team work. But really a tank which can roam around and do whatever and costs less than a dropsuit - Skirmish you can still hide and run. But Tanks generate a lot of free SP by blowing up uncapped turrets which wouldn't een fire back at them. (Turrets are free points for tanks btw, too easy to kill) Hence, easy orbital strike. How Are you supposed to defend 3 out of 5 objectives with 5 tanks roaming around ?! So balance is : 2.5 mil SP + for a proto suit 2 mil + SP for proto weapon/AV Few million SP for dropsuit upgrades Minimum of 100k ISK per loadout vs 0 SP for tanks less than 100k for a SOMA SICA Winner ?! Wanna take a wild guess ?!

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3048	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:00:00 - [71] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. Forget about PC. You cant forget about PC PC is generally the most balanced mode we can find If you break a role/playstyle for pubs then it becomes useless for PC Intelligence is OP
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1187	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:08:00 - [72] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. Forget about PC. You cant forget about PC PC is generally the most balanced mode we can find If you break a role/playstyle for pubs then it becomes useless for PC PC you have 16 of your players. so you can afford to spam tanks too, which makes it irrelevant when it comes to the real issue between Tank and AV balance.... Which btw is far from balanced... Nice try btw... Would've expected that kinda answer from spkr not you. You are a good tanker, so i don't see why you need to act like a ***** and keep pushing for more crutches... You of all people should know the difference..
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:15:00 - [73] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. No. It results in a massive isk loss for the AV with many infantry deaths and with so many infantry going av this gives the enemy an infantry advantage resulting in a few dead tanks but a lost match for the side trying to kill the tanks. A defeat screen is never fun plus toss in lost isk and for many it becomes talk to the sig. Very true... WInning is the target... So what would the answer be this time ?1 We should all wear Heavy suits with FG and try to fight infantry and vehicles at the same time ?! OR we should all get in a Free LAV with Remotes ?!
The Robot Devil Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2062	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:26:00 - [74] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. No. It results in a massive isk loss for the AV with many infantry deaths and with so many infantry going av this gives the enemy an infantry advantage resulting in a few dead tanks but a lost match for the side trying to kill the tanks. A defeat screen is never fun plus toss in lost isk and for many it becomes talk to the sig. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I don't understand what you all will consider balanced, like BF where one stinger will kill a jet no prob? I am not saying things are balanced. What is the appropriate way to fix this, limit vehicles to one per match? I feel like we aren't being objective on how we think vehicles should be. Militia shouldn't invalidate higher tiers but the higher tiers shouldn't make militia useless. People say that three mercs is too many to fight a HAV but at the same time people have no problem popping almost any vehicle with three people. A good squad with flux, AV nades, RE or Prox mines can keep a vehicle at bay and still be very deadly. Pilots don't want us instapopping their vehicles but everyone else wants to solo the best fits. A proto fit militia HAV cost ISK and my 50k suit can just about handle it and sometime does destroy it. Where is the line that is considered balanced. People are too risk adverse, there is no pride in what they do and they only have short sighted complaints that they don't have a weapon that can defeat anything. Triple hardened HAVs are difficult but not impossible and anything but those are usually turned into ashed in no time. You can't win every time and if you think you can, want to or think that you should be able to then you are playing the wrong game. It is ok to lose, it is ok to go negative to accomplish a goal. Loss is part of New Eden and should be a learning experience not a viewed as being as being bad. Five vehicles on the field? Yeah, it should take at least three mercs to fight them. A squad of six against five vehicles? Sounds about right, that still leaves at least 10 per side on foot. Infantry do have disadvantages but so do vehicles, they can go where we can, they don't have the agility we do, they can't hide as well as we can, they don't have the same fields of view, they get stuck easier, they make much more noise and are easier to spot in the open, they can't fight multiple targets as easily as we can, they can hack objectives, they can't switch out fits as easily, they can't do many things we can do. I am not saying they are balanced. They have ups and downs and with tactics, teamwork and support can wreck infantry but the the same is true about infantry against vehicle. I am not saying they are perfectly balanced but when half a squad can kill almost any vehicle then it seems to be going in the right direction. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
shadow drake35 The Third Day Galactic Skyfleet Empire 81	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:26:00 - [75] - Quote tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right MAG Raven, Valor, and S.V.E.R. Veteran
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5934	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:28:00 - [76] - Quote shadow drake35 wrote: tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right inb4 Facts Tanks in real life do go down and 1 hit, and/or kills the entire crew inside. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3048	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:33:00 - [77] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: NAV HIV wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. Forget about PC. You cant forget about PC PC is generally the most balanced mode we can find If you break a role/playstyle for pubs then it becomes useless for PC PC you have 16 of your players. so you can afford to spam tanks too, which makes it irrelevant when it comes to the real issue between Tank and AV balance.... Which btw is far from balanced... Nice try btw... Would've expected that kinda answer from spkr not you. You are a good tanker, so i don't see why you need to act like a ***** and keep pushing for more crutches... You of all people should know the difference.. You break 1 playstyle just for pubs it generally becomes useless for PC Pre 1.7 tanks were generally useless, AV could dominate them and they were just there to fight other tanks in general, some maps really not needed and since the tanks were there to fight other tanks it also left the infantry to fight the infantry so whoevers infantry won the battle they generally they won the game Pubs doesnt have matchmaking or put squads vs squads, its 1 room and everyone gets chucked in The academy needs to keep in players for longer, pub rooms need to have diff levels and matchmaking so squads fight each other and even lobbies by gear, give vehicles adv/proto version to balance with proto AV The problems are here because we are missing things to begin with and original problems havnt been fixed and just have been left to get worse Intelligence is OP
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:38:00 - [78] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: True Adamance wrote: Yeah....I know this is anecdotal but I am noticing the difference between when our squads are working together and how that affects my HAV and what happens when it doesn't. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I've have always been saying that teamwork makes a huge difference when fighting vehicles but of course I am just a scrub or some other word intended to insult me or dissuade me. It is not even worth trying to argue that working together is better than running solo and hiding. I see vehicles explode all the time from all types of AV weapons but that doesn't matter because if it isn't soloable then it is broken. A squad of six advanced geared mercs with three in AV and three supporting will wreck almost any vehicle pretty quickly when they are working as a team and coordinating attacks. Yes, multiple vehicles are tough and yes the squad needs to be supported but it can be done and is done all the time. No. It results in a massive isk loss for the AV with many infantry deaths and with so many infantry going av this gives the enemy an infantry advantage resulting in a few dead tanks but a lost match for the side trying to kill the tanks. A defeat screen is never fun plus toss in lost isk and for many it becomes talk to the sig. I know this isn't EVE. I am not stating that AV/vehicles are balanced. I understand there is a problem with AV. I understand that you think CCP doesn't listen or know how to balance things. I understand that you may believe that another patch may not come for a year. I know that the game has problems. I am not trying to say anything about balance, timely releases, quality of released content, competence of CCP or players or anything other than the following: I don't understand what you all will consider balanced, like BF where one stinger will kill a jet no prob? I am not saying things are balanced. What is the appropriate way to fix this, limit vehicles to one per match? I feel like we aren't being objective on how we think vehicles should be. Militia shouldn't invalidate higher tiers but the higher tiers shouldn't make militia useless. People say that three mercs is too many to fight a HAV but at the same time people have no problem popping almost any vehicle with three people. A good squad with flux, AV nades, RE or Prox mines can keep a vehicle at bay and still be very deadly. Pilots don't want us instapopping their vehicles but everyone else wants to solo the best fits. A proto fit militia HAV cost ISK and my 50k suit can just about handle it and sometime does destroy it. Where is the line that is considered balanced. People are too risk adverse, there is no pride in what they do and they only have short sighted complaints that they don't have a weapon that can defeat anything. Triple hardened HAVs are difficult but not impossible and anything but those are usually turned into ashed in no time. You can't win every time and if you think you can, want to or think that you should be able to then you are playing the wrong game. It is ok to lose, it is ok to go negative to accomplish a goal. Loss is part of New Eden and should be a learning experience not a viewed as being as being bad. Five vehicles on the field? Yeah, it should take at least three mercs to fight them. A squad of six against five vehicles? Sounds about right, that still leaves at least 10 per side on foot. Infantry do have disadvantages but so do vehicles, they can go where we can, they don't have the agility we do, they can't hide as well as we can, they don't have the same fields of view, they get stuck easier, they make much more noise and are easier to spot in the open, they can't fight multiple targets as easily as we can, they can hack objectives, they can't switch out fits as easily, they can't do many things we can do. I am not saying they are balanced. They have ups and downs and with tactics, teamwork and support can wreck infantry but the the same is true about infantry against vehicle. I am not saying they are perfectly balanced but when half a squad can kill almost any vehicle then it seems to be going in the right direction. So you are saying that it is ok for people to spam the map with tanks, i just gave you an explanation of how almost every other match is in Dust right now. Any scrub can spam tanks and still make ISK and cause Havoc at the same time... RE's are not for AV purposes. Sadly that's the only effective AV right now... Proxy's ?! Other than free lavs, i haven't seen a proxy tank kill this build and i play everyday... I play to win, not to see tanks playing need for speed in the map. We are faster than tanks ?! lol which game have you been playing ? ! Infantry can switch outfits as easily ?! I dont' recall, calling in my Assault drop suit for an AV suit without getting to a Supply depot. I can't recall my dropsuit and call another one in just by pressing a button and have full ammo. Must be nice to do so... But it takes a lot of skills to recall a tank and call another one in That recalling business has to stop, if a player calls a vehicle in, it should remain in the field till it's blown up... Yes you can work a tripple hardened gunlogi with flux nades. But am i supposed to carry flux nades all the times with me now?! it's not like i can press a button and switch my suits on the go...
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1190	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:42:00 - [79] - Quote Atiim wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right inb4 Facts Tanks in real life do go down and 1 hit, and/or kills the entire crew inside. can't recall them either lol
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1190	Posted - 2014.03.20 13:43:00 - [80] - Quote "You break 1 playstyle just for pubs it generally becomes useless for PC Pre 1.7 tanks were generally useless, AV could dominate them and they were just there to fight other tanks in general, some maps really not needed and since the tanks were there to fight other tanks it also left the infantry to fight the infantry so whoevers infantry won the battle they generally they won the game Pubs doesnt have matchmaking or put squads vs squads, its 1 room and everyone gets chucked in The academy needs to keep in players for longer, pub rooms need to have diff levels and matchmaking so squads fight each other and even lobbies by gear, give vehicles adv/proto version to balance with proto AV The problems are here because we are missing things to begin with and original problems havnt been fixed and just have been left to get worse" Honestly pre 1.7 swarms were stupid. That 180 degree swarms that would go around covers and such, but right now they are useless, they'll become even more useless in 1.8... FG right now is fine, i've seen people use FG mostly for vehicles, not infantry... CCP needs to do something, either fix AV according to vehicles or stop the spamming of it...

NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1205	Posted - 2014.03.20 19:25:00 - [81] - Quote shadow drake35 wrote: tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right 100k is still cheaper than an assault suit lol
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1910	Posted - 2014.03.20 19:52:00 - [82] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right 100k is still cheaper than an assault suit lol Laptop is still cheaper than a iPhone click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 1210	Posted - 2014.03.21 14:36:00 - [83] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: NAV HIV wrote: shadow drake35 wrote: tanks arnt op tanks in real life dont go down in one shot kill them they are TANKS i am infintary and tanker but i do agree on tank prices are way to low but 1mill is to high lke 100-200k isk will be right 100k is still cheaper than an assault suit lol Laptop is still cheaper than a iPhone On that logic PS4 and and 3 is cheaper too lol


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