DUST Search - CPM Candidates, what will you do for the new players?

I'dn Ker wrote:

It's become a common fact that the new player experience is beyond brutal. They literally get about two games in the academy before being thrown to the wolves.

Even while in the academy they are pestered and harassed by alts of more experienced players looking to make an easy bit of ISK of these budding bunnies.

While I've seen plenty about working on the interaction between Dust and Eve as well as various aspects of trade and the crazy nerf/buff cycle, I'm concerned that the new players are being over looked.

You won't hear me dispute that all of the above is well worth working toward. It's just with a vastly diminished player base and such a harsh start, what's the point in the above if so few are around to appreciate it.

So hopefully some of you won't mind answering some of these questions. It's a from a list I had made up attempted to answer myself when I had considered trying out for CPM1.

1. What would you do to help newer players?

2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out?

3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million?

4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained?

5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what?

6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun?
(Sure you can get basic with one level but at such a low level, every skill point matters)

So far I'm still totally undecided on who to vote for this time around. As a former Ever player, I always liked watching how the CSM worked and the differences they could make to the game. Hopefully the second CPM of Dust will do great things for us.

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Nin Ker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 69	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:09:00 - [1] - Quote It's become a common fact that the new player experience is beyond brutal. They literally get about two games in the academy before being thrown to the wolves. Even while in the academy they are pestered and harassed by alts of more experienced players looking to make an easy bit of ISK of these budding bunnies. While I've seen plenty about working on the interaction between Dust and Eve as well as various aspects of trade and the crazy nerf/buff cycle, I'm concerned that the new players are being over looked. You won't hear me dispute that all of the above is well worth working toward. It's just with a vastly diminished player base and such a harsh start, what's the point in the above if so few are around to appreciate it. So hopefully some of you won't mind answering some of these questions. It's a from a list I had made up attempted to answer myself when I had considered trying out for CPM1. 1. What would you do to help newer players? 2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out? 3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million? 4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained? 5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what? 6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun? (Sure you can get basic with one level but at such a low level, every skill point matters) So far I'm still totally undecided on who to vote for this time around. As a former Ever player, I always liked watching how the CSM worked and the differences they could make to the game. Hopefully the second CPM of Dust will do great things for us.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1674	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:36:00 - [2] - Quote New players, and figuring out how to keep them engaged past their first hour in the game is currently one of the biggest issues CCP is facing with DUST 514. They've never been good at the new player experience, EVE is another example where few new players actually stay. The Academy is a terrible stopgap for poor matchmaking, and it does only a small amount to protect players from the absolutely worst of protostomping. CCP needs an actual tutorial, perhaps a very small amount of PvE that can guide players through basic mechanics with voiceover work. One of the things EVE does for you, is as you progress through the basic tutorials, it gives you skillbooks. Skillbooks are very expensive for a new DUST player, and it might help if CCP gave people the basic skillbooks as they progressed through the tutorial. I definitely could see raising starting SP a bit. The SP gap is pretty huge to begin with, and giving people skill points to pad out a few more passive skills at the start could make a big difference. The SP cap issue has never been appropriately addressed. CCP promised to revisit it for a long time, but never really got back to players on it. While I don't like the idea of encouraging new players to grind 24/7 to catch up, there's really no reason to cap out an excited new player from gaining more SP and playing more in their first week. I like the idea of maybe loosening up the cap for new players. I don't know if you'd want to outright remove it, to prevent abuse, but raising it significantly, at least, would make sense. We definitely need militia weapons to be properly filled out. I think, as with BPOs, CCP stopped releasing new militia weapons because they weren't happy with their existing financial impact and game balance, but it's something they need to fill in. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 225	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:40:00 - [3] - Quote Not running for figure head status but I feel like answering. New players need a more in depth tutorial specifically explaining the different areas of the skill tree and somehow giving them a chance to see all of the different roles of the game outside of run and shoot. The academy needs to be changed from a static number to a rolling average to allow players to grow at their pace before being thrown to the wolves. Starting SP does not need to be raised see above. While I can not stand the weekly cap and have proposed several changes to it, I can not say that I see or have seen any actual workable changes. This statement includes removing the cap at any point for any players. The academy gives a small chance for players to familiarize them self. With no guidance at all this chance is basically nulled by them wondering what is going on as they rush in assuming that they will figure it out as they go. SP cost is low enough on weapons to try them out I see no need for making sure there is a militia version of every weapon.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1675	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:43:00 - [4] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: SP cost is low enough on weapons to try them out I see no need for making sure there is a militia version of every weapon. The SP cost for the weapon skill itself can be small, but the cost to unlock those skills can be fairly high, actually. Since you might need Sidearm Operation 4, Light Weapon Operation 4, or Heavy Weapon Operation 3 to unlock any given weapon. The cost of any of those skills is cripplingly high when you don't even have enough SP to fill out basic passive bonuses from dropsuit upgrades. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 225	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:47:00 - [5] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: deezy dabest wrote: SP cost is low enough on weapons to try them out I see no need for making sure there is a militia version of every weapon. The SP cost for the weapon skill itself can be small, but the cost to unlock those skills can be fairly high, actually. Since you might need Sidearm Operation 4, Light Weapon Operation 4, or Heavy Weapon Operation 3 to unlock any given weapon. The cost of any of those skills is cripplingly high when you don't even have enough SP to fill out basic passive bonuses from dropsuit upgrades. Good point, I had not considered this. I would say that is a problem with the skill tree itself and not something fixed by adding more militia variants for people with proficiency 5 to stomp with without being concerned about ISK loss.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1675	Posted - 2014.03.11 17:51:00 - [6] - Quote I think the problem there is militia gear still being so effective for veterans. I'd rather CCP figure out a way to fix that, and allow newbies to play with militia guns of all types. ;) I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Appia Nappia Nos Nothi 339	Posted - 2014.03.11 18:11:00 - [7] - Quote Shhhh. Ignore this post. Secretly Appia Vibbia If you can read my signature... I'm on the wrong alt.
Appia Vibbia Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1422	Posted - 2014.03.11 18:12:00 - [8] - Quote 1. What would you do to help newer players? I can't do much for people I don't know exist. There isn't a strong mechanic to go about finding people that are new, the best I can do is notice someone looking for help/advice on the forums or in role-based chat channels. Honestly, although it was very annoying, when CrontraBanJo would get on his EVE-toon, fly to the DUST-local systems, and spam all the Infantry with mail to join PRO was the best tactic to get new players. Get them into a corp like D-UNI and other ones that like to teach people the way of the game. As I am not involved in a training corp, nor intimate knowledge of how they run things and their recruitment policies I could not do this myself. 2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out? They may one day be graced by my presence Honestly though, I'd say some looking forward to some of the really great communities DUST has to offer. Some have died down, but others are rising. Logibros, scouts, commados, condors. 3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million? 4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained? I think 500,000 SP is a good starting amount. It is enough wiggle room to unlock any of the weapons or any of the suits, if you are aiming for a specific one from the start. Inevitably, without talking to someone that knows the meta fairly well new players are likely to invest their initial SP in ways they'd regret further down the line. I do think that, with the low amount of SP they start with, there needs to be more incentive to play and to catch up with the vets. I personally think that 8,000,000 SP is a good place to take off the weekly cap at. Let them play and earn SP to their heart's content up till then. I've personally found that to be the amount needed to specialize into a particular play-style. SP after that would go into maxing out those skills. 5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what? I think it best serves as a placeholder for a competent New Player Experience and Tutorial system, as well as a way to separate players by SP level come a time when the player base is large enough to do that. 6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun? (Sure you can get basic with one level but at such a low level, every skill point matters) Yes. This is both important, necessary, and easy to do. The only thing stopping CCP is that mlt basic weapons would reduce the sales of basic AUR weapons. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com (checked every Monday/Wednesday/Friday)
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 174	Posted - 2014.03.11 18:35:00 - [9] - Quote Okay, I'm game. Here's my answers. 1. I'm torn between three options: A) PVE in general, but namely tutorial segments. B) Possibility of a MLT only arena mode (not only for NPEGÇªmainly just to have a competitive environment where everyone is of equivalent gear-level) C) Better information in the show info tab. A short abbreviated description identifying things like resistance/damage profiles italicized and bolded for attention. CCP, sorry but your show infos are too vague and verbose. 2. I don't at this time other than the potential of this game, and having a more even footing with vets later on. 3. I feel it would be not effective unless New Players were given more information, and more capacity to make informed decisions concerning their SP. 4. This strikes me as more of a marketing decision rather than a gameplay one, so I'll pass on this one. 5. I feel it does, but I would like it expanded to add more backstory flavor, information on game mechanics, and generally bring new players up to speed in how Dust is similar to, and different than, other games. 6. I think it is wise to add MLT variants to at least all the standard-issue rifles. The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 1675	Posted - 2014.03.11 18:57:00 - [10] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I think 500,000 SP is a good starting amount. It is enough wiggle room to unlock any of the weapons or any of the suits, if you are aiming for a specific one from the start. Inevitably, without talking to someone that knows the meta fairly well new players are likely to invest their initial SP in ways they'd regret further down the line. This is actually something my suggestion of handing out skillbooks in the tutorial would address. It would be a not-so-subtle hint on what they should skill into first. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate

Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1055	Posted - 2014.03.11 20:55:00 - [11] - Quote Part of the problem in answering questions such as this right at this moment is that the candidates, like the community, is very much in the dark as to what the road map that CCP Rouge has in mind for Dust 514. This is hopefully going to made clearer before 1.8 hits and must be made known before the election dates are announced, as voters will need that information, as well as the candidates, to make an informed decision. So I think it wise that any answers we might give now, not be taken as definitive as circumstance may render them moot or in need of revising at a later date. With that necessary proviso out of the way.... I've already posted this elsewhere but there is no harm in doing so again. Here is the proposal/essay that I created and sent to the previous EP back in June of last year. In it I lay out several grounding principles that any revised NPE has to adhere to in order for it to be successful. These are principles that are relevant to any form of training, be it training for a role in a video game or in a new job. In a previous life and to a smaller degree in my current employment, I've been responsible for the training of new starters and I know them to work. This document has been seen by the CPM (so I'm told) and several Dev's at CCP. As to what I would do to help new players, its important to make clear that the game itself can do a lot more than it does now to help new players. Its current iteration is slightly better than that when Uprising first dropped but as the linked document demonstrates, I believe it capable of doing so much more. So I would be pushing for a significantly enhanced PVE and working with CCP to that end. By giving the newer players the correct tools in game to learn more themselves we can increase the player retention and encourage them to stay, build on their role in the game and ultimately, contribute to it either directly by taking on a role in a corp or indirectly with the purchase of Aurum. In terms of incentives, I don't actually think that a form of bribery is really needed IF the game provides a coherent and meaningful sense of progression for the new player. A sense of accomplishment is as much a reward in itself as a lump of ISK or a number of free fits and is more likely to provide incentive than any number of provided skill books. I've played many games that provide a material gain for progression as a way of compensating for poorly designed player progression. Dust has in recent months itself fallen into this trap and every time a new batch of free gear is presented, we create further problems down the road when it comes to the building of an economy that hasn't arrived and must be in the established model of New Eden. Resource Gathering leading to Manufacture leading to Destruction and back to Resource Gathering. Having 'product' just 'appear' is incredibly damaging to an economy not yet born... When you say out loud 'Give 'em more starting SP!' It sounds great and any new player would love it but again this will create a number of problems down the road unless the game is better at teaching that new player. Giving them a larger starting pool of SP is just going to make any mistakes in the spending of those SP so much greater. If a player is wise and tried playing with the free suits (which are poorly conceived for a new starter anyway, so they need work) before deciding on a role then fine. But nine times out of ten they are not and 6 months down the road, if they stick with the game, they'll be asking for a respec. Respec's by the way, are entirely the creation of CCP themselves due to the slipshod way the NPE and the release of racial suits has been handled, not just from May's launch but from the closed beta. That being said, I would have no problem with an accelerated SP accrual for new players and the removal of the weekly SP cap for Mercs for say up to 10 million SP or 6 months of age, whichever is sooner. I'd also go so far as to say that Merc's that qualify with the two criteria just mentioned should have active and passive SP gain from purchased boosters increased from 50% to 75 or even 100%. The Academy can still serve an important purpose but it is badly let down by a poor matchmaking system, an ambush mode that allows vehicles and a lack of safeguards in place to prevent griefing of new players by vets going in there with the sole purpose of ruining someones day. We need new players coming into the game people!!!! Don't put off the ones that we do get! Again this goes back to an ill conceived NPE and a perhaps even a built in constitutional attitude at CCP itself, that frowns on the need of making it simpler for new players to progress. With work and TLC, the Academy can once again be a useful tool. There are dangers to having Militia versions of all weapons because a highly specced into Merc can be devastating with them with little financial risk. This is one area where a revamped Academy could be massively helpful. If the game provides free suit fits with all the weapons available in the game while in Academy mode only, players can then try them all before deciding which to pursue when leaving the Academy. The game could even ask which weapon they like most and give them a basic skill plan to ensure mis-spend SP is minimised. Anyway, I hope that has answered some of your questions. Please keep them coming folks. Mercenary Clone of Dennie Fleetfoot CEO of DUST University CPM1 candidate
Spartacus Dust The-Legionnaires The CORVOS 187	Posted - 2014.03.11 23:45:00 - [12] - Quote I'dn Ker wrote: It's become a common fact that the new player experience is beyond brutal. They literally get about two games in the academy before being thrown to the wolves. Even while in the academy they are pestered and harassed by alts of more experienced players looking to make an easy bit of ISK of these budding bunnies. While I've seen plenty about working on the interaction between Dust and Eve as well as various aspects of trade and the crazy nerf/buff cycle, I'm concerned that the new players are being over looked. You won't hear me dispute that all of the above is well worth working toward. It's just with a vastly diminished player base and such a harsh start, what's the point in the above if so few are around to appreciate it. So hopefully some of you won't mind answering some of these questions. It's a from a list I had made up attempted to answer myself when I had considered trying out for CPM1. 1. What would you do to help newer players? 2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out? 3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million? 4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained? 5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what? 6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun? (Sure you can get basic with one level but at such a low level, every skill point matters) So far I'm still totally undecided on who to vote for this time around. As a former Ever player, I always liked watching how the CSM worked and the differences they could make to the game. Hopefully the second CPM of Dust will do great things for us. 1. If IWS's plans for Dust 2.0 aren't already going to be implemented, I would try to get them implemented, better tutorials and fitting guides, but now and pve won't make a good player, community (private market solutions) will provide the tools players need to be better, I am a bog advocate for Dust Uni 2. If pve missions existed a free skillbook and isk like in EVE tutorials. 3. 1 million sounds better to me 4. Caps suck but there are 3 character slots so they can wiggle into different roles and it is advisable to have multiple characters with different roles. 5. Yes, it's good training 6. no, I'd rather see a weapons lab that lets you try out new weapons Twitter @Matthew_Dust Candidate for the CPM1 One Universe//One War
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 463	Posted - 2014.03.12 13:55:00 - [13] - Quote This. Gÿé Syeven 514 Application for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1799	Posted - 2014.03.13 08:36:00 - [14] - Quote 1. What would you do to help newer players? The new player experience is paramount. It must be a gripping and fruitful experience that lends players to feel rewarded, but wanting more. I believe that the new player experience should be a top priority for short term development because pulling in new players is instrumental in the survival of this game. Systems such as the Career Funnel, a training program from EVE, should be developed and implemented to allow players to learn game mechanics and specific roles at the own pace. 2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out? Actions must come with rewards in order for them to feel meaningful to new players. Everything a player does, every action, kill, and skill point spent should feel like a reward and not a grind. I believe that players should work for what they earn, but also always gain something from that work. Therefor it is important that every level of every skill skill, regardless of how base, should offer some kind of meaningful bonus and not only exist to unlock more skills. In addition, players should always feel as if they have something new to work towards such as achievements/certificates, celebrating their successes and hard work. 3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million? Everything should be earned in-game, and while a small amount of starting SP is reasonable, a large chunk of starting SP gives players a false sense of progression and will ultimately dishearten them when they are forced to earn SP normally. That being said, the opportunities to earn that initial chunk should be plentiful and will serve as a strong baseline for training and learning mechanics. 4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained? There is certainly a SP "floor" that players much reach before feeling effective. I believe that players need to earn the SP to reach that floor on their own. However, opportunities such as training SP bonuses and achievement bonuses should allow a player to earn that SP at an easier rate. I am also open to the idea of a larger/no SP cap up to a certain SP value to help players reach that SP "floor" a little faster than normal. 5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what? The Battle Academy is an example of a good idea with a poor execution. The concept of lower SP players fighting one another in order to learn the game is a very good idea, however the time spent in the Academy is far to short and it is nearly impossible to learn anything meaningful in that period of time. Therefor a revamped Academy with a newly developed Training Program would greatly improve the Academy concept and execution. 6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun? As a new player it can be frustrating when you are forced to spend precious SP to unlock a gun you know very little about. The idea of "wasted SP" is a very unattractive idea to any player, especially new ones. I believe that players should have access to all weapons in order to decide what they would like to ultimately spec into, without the ugly notion of wasting SP on something they may not like. Therefor I believe that all weapons should have a militia variant. Rising Dust - Dust514 Training Video
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion League of Infamy 1045	Posted - 2014.03.13 09:41:00 - [15] - Quote 1. What would you do to help newer players? A running tuturial series denoting how, why, when, and what do do about gameplay situations with a voice over explaining what actions in said scenarios do what. For example, the 'Stage 1' Tutuorial could be movement, firing weapons, throwing grenades. pretty much the 'basics' with a pre-fitted suit for demonstration purposes. Stage 2 would involve Supply Depots. Switching fits both at them, and after respawn, when to do this 'optimally' and why certain weapons are better at certain functions. Stage 3 would cover customised fitting. Still done within the framework of the tutorial map, so that the New Player feels as though they are actually progressing. 2. Do you have incentives for new players to stick it out? Incentives are a big part of any NPE. Something as simple as a 'stay with us for X number of weeks and hey, we'll give you a small cache of your fav weapon / suit... Offering incentives to 'stick around' is mostly about content, however, and a clear delineation of what they can expect to come. 3. How do you feel about increasing the starting amount of SP by say, two to three million? I believe that earning those first few million SP is integral to the start of the game. And helps the New Players recover from bad choices. Increasing the Starter SP could potentially cause them to continually reroll their characters and redo the SP investment. And most New players want to get in on fast action, not spend hours (or days if you bugger up 3 characters in a row) 'fixing' something. 4. Any thoughts on removing the weekly cap for a players first month and/or until a certain amount of SP is attained? A removal on the cap until x amount of SP is great, so long as you can still use AUR boosters and not have them effect the 'New Player' Starting cap. around 2-3 million would give new players most of what they'd need to compete, but still give them something to aim for. 5. Do you think the Battle Academy still serves a purpose, if so what? The Battle Academy is over too fast, and doesn't offer the New Players a full 'potential' experience. I believe it needs to be expanded upon with several ideas. Firstly, increasing the amount of time spent there... up to a week for a Casual Player and possible a few days for the Hard Core Players. Secondly, while in the Academy, you shouldn't HAVE to spend SP. You should have access to all suits and modules currently in game as if you had lvl 5 across the board. Along with these a set of 'tutorial BPOs' that, like the all access pass, are with you ONLY for your Academy Stay. This allows players to actually get a feel for what they want to do end game, play with different fits, weapons, suits, vehicles, without sinking SP into something they wont want once it gets to proto level for whatever reason. Thus primarily allows them to set goals for themselves once the academy is finished, and they know better what direction they want to take. 6. Do you think it would be both wise and possible to add a Militia variant to every type of gun? (Sure you can get basic with one level but at such a low level, every skill point matters) So long as they aren't BPOs (with the exception of Racial Starter Fits that should be fitted with Race-specific weapons). However, if the above Expanded academy idea comes into play, we could ditch Militia items altogether, since their main purpose is to allow players to 'try before you sink sp into them'. Once you go Black, you just never go back!
Nin Ker Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2014.03.13 14:17:00 - [16] - Quote Some really good answers here. Thanks for taking the time to reply.


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