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BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:06:00 - [1] - Quote No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP Support The DUST514 TREEEEEEESSS
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2094	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:15:00 - [2] - Quote Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline. Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners. As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks. Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1422	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:24:00 - [3] - Quote Well, the best counter to a rail tank is another rail tank right now. When in fact it should be a blaster tank that is the ultimate counter (blasters do too little damage to vehicles and too much against infantry). Then theres the redline also disabling CQC blaster tanks to sneak up on rail tanks and shoot them in the back. Redline needs to be removed and blasters buffed dmg against vehicles. Rail turrets also needs damage reduced at close range. Drop it like its hat.
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 985	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:30:00 - [4] - Quote Just dropped a rail tank with a neutron blaster. Text book, kept something between us, lost his hardener and rushed him. Pop. OP it is not. If they hide in the Red Line (which is their decision) I bring out the PC +damage and get them sooner or later. 9 out of 10 times they get popped. Just planning, although having a high sniper doing over watch is very helpful. Most if not all of the QQ Kittens on these forums are just rage kitties that cannot think for themselves. Constant whining and wanting to have a Push To Win button that only works For Them! Then when someone else kills them three times in one match they never shut up about again. If that is a rail gun tank or a proto sniper it really doesn't matter. It doesn't help that Cannot Comprehend Programming only balances by swinging abilities to the extremes. And so it goes.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 880	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:39:00 - [5] - Quote Interesting idea BAMM. I have heard of people suggesting similar things before. Comparing the ground spawn 'shield' to a POS shield is cool. Separate from that I think there are only 2 ways to go with vehicles.... [1] - Vehicles are all easily destroyed but are therefore a lot cheaper so people can use them all day every day. (Think Battlefield style, tanks and stuff constantly blow up but they are constantly being brought back in.) OR [2] - Vehicles are hard to destroy but are therefore very expensive assets, so if you do lose one, they are really to expensive to be bringing back in on a continual basis. (Kind of like how tanks used to be before) This does not mean that there are still balancing issues, especially with the redline which I think really is our problem. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB For the STATE!
BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 CRONOS. 250	Posted - 2014.02.28 10:59:00 - [6] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Just dropped a rail tank with a neutron blaster. Text book, kept something between us, lost his hardener and rushed him. Pop. OP it is not. If they hide in the Red Line (which is their decision) I bring out the PC +damage and get them sooner or later. 9 out of 10 times they get popped. Just planning, although having a high sniper doing over watch is very helpful. Most if not all of the QQ Kittens on these forums are just rage kitties that cannot think for themselves. Constant whining and wanting to have a Push To Win button that only works For Them! Then when someone else kills them three times in one match they never shut up about again. If that is a rail gun tank or a proto sniper it really doesn't matter. It doesn't help that Cannot Comprehend Programming only balances by swinging abilities to the extremes. agreed, this however is an idea (and I stress it might not be the right one) on how to remove the redline from the game, I don't believe the "Tank" is op .... remove the redline and the rail tank sitting there sniping for kills has to rethink the loadout, this forces a balance between defence and damage out put ... thus negating the need for any nerfs, I hate nerfs, history in DUST 514 has shown that nerfs have completely kill off the use of laser rifles, flay locks and swarm launchers and it takes the devs months to get the balance right case and point is the "heavy nerf" , fix the situation the Rail Tank and snipers are abusing ( the red line ) and the problems will balance themselves .... I would prefer the devs to focus on the games core mechanics and repair those before they begin nerfing, you cannot judge balance on bugs and I believe that if the devs fix the issues first they can start balancing suit weapons and vehicles correctly and there will be less of this QQ nonsense and forum warriors farming for likes... as they do Support The DUST514 TREEEEEEESSS
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 390	Posted - 2014.02.28 11:12:00 - [7] - Quote BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP I have not read your rebuttal yet I will, and I also hate nerfs, but the judges video is solid, and maps shouldnt need changing to make a vehicle less powerful, Im not saying you couldnt fix the problem by changing map contour near the redline as I have advocated for this for other reasons, but rails are broken beyond the redline I think..... Most dropship pilots would agree I think, we dont need a hard nerf though because they do keep dropships in check which I like but they need some help against 1 shot or 2 shots from rails and that exists in and out of the redline....
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1153	Posted - 2014.02.28 11:25:00 - [8] - Quote this while it is a good idea causes another problem. right now the redline rails arnt truly invulnerable and can still be damaged and while they oftin duck behind cover they can technically still be damaged even though its not really all that likely. with the introduction of true invulnerability you will see people start to take advantage and poke their heads out shoot then return to the bubble before any possable return fire and have TRUE invulnerability rather then the psudo invulnerability they have now. meaning redline rails will simply be stuck inside small bubbles and will come out for just enough time to take pot shots then return to their invulnerable palance where absolutly nothing you can do outside of a tank blockade around the bubble will stop them. so while it is an interesting idea i dont think that replacing psudo-invulnerability with ACTUAL invulnerability is a good idea as it opens up the situation for even more blantant and dangerous abuses then we currently have to deal with. especially concidering it alows a rail tank to remain completly invulnerable from dropships while still giving the railtank every advantage in the fight it currently has. your solution doesnt actually solve the problem it intends to solve and instead keeps the problem the exact same while potentially creating new problems along the way. depending on how its done it could also prevent you from being able to orbital redline rails, removing one of our only real ways to get rid of redline rail infestations. TL:DR the cure is worse then the disease
Alternate Insano SUICIDE SPITE SQUAD 194	Posted - 2014.02.28 11:37:00 - [9] - Quote The redline is the only thing helping a new player survive against a 30mil SP vet with 5 different proto suits and enough ISK to run them all day. You may not notice, but new players aren't falling all over themselves to come here. Even with Sony putting the DUST demo in with the PS3. There are so many things that need to be fixed before any discussion to remove the redline could begin in earnest. These things will not be though. Someone thinks they can (foolishly) copy EVE, which is a computer game that had no competition at launch 10 years ago. Now that there are better games on the horizon, the only players sticking up for EVE are the ones way up on top of the pile. Which is exactly what's going on with DUST. The only problem is this is a console game, and console gamers don't have to wait 10 years for a game to get better, because by then they will have a drivers license, figure out what girls are, and stop gaming until they're 40. DUST 514 Super Scrub Level 262 Forum Troll Play, or play not. There is no balance.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 1153	Posted - 2014.02.28 11:39:00 - [10] - Quote Alternate Insano wrote: The redline is the only thing helping a new player survive against a 30mil SP vet with 5 different proto suits and enough ISK to run them all day. You may not notice, but new players aren't falling all over themselves to come here. Even with Sony putting the DUST demo in with the PS3. There are so many things that need to be fixed before any discussion to remove the redline could begin in earnest. These things will not be though. Someone thinks they can (foolishly) copy EVE, which is a computer game that had no competition at launch 10 years ago. Now that there are better games on the horizon, the only players sticking up for EVE are the ones way up on top of the pile. Which is exactly what's going on with DUST. The only problem is this is a console game, and console gamers don't have to wait 10 years for a game to get better, because by then they will have a drivers license, figure out what girls are, and stop gaming until they're 40. as a 30mil sp vet.... the redline is NOT helping a new player survive against me if they are that badly redlined then the only safe spawn is inside the MCC because i can and do run in there to rake up kills and some silly little count down doesnt stop me want to know what helps them survive against me in that situation? being as far away from their own deployment zone as possable.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 104	Posted - 2014.02.28 11:42:00 - [11] - Quote I like the idea of a smaller "safe" area, but I think there will be a problem with calling in vehicles. Let me explain. We have the redline primarily as a safe zone for regrouping and safe spawns. When redlined (as I think we all have been at some point), we have a "quite" large area where you can call in vehicles to try and break out. If you would reduce the redline to the spawn base itself, most vehicle drops will happen outside of it, being destroyed before they even hit the ground.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2096	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:02:00 - [12] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP I have not read your rebuttal yet I will, and I also hate nerfs, but the judges video is solid, and maps shouldnt need changing to make a vehicle less powerful, Im not saying you couldnt fix the problem by changing map contour near the redline as I have advocated for this for other reasons, but rails are broken beyond the redline I think..... Most dropship pilots would agree I think, we dont need a hard nerf though because they do keep dropships in check which I like but they need some help against 1 shot or 2 shots from rails and that exists in and out of the redline.... Would it not make sense to buff dropships? Assuming the redline is fixed std and logistics dropships are still to weak to do their primary role of infantry transport. Ideally the MTV/MATV vehicles should have a higher tank than HAV/HAAV units, because they require more time to be effective. In the event we evef get HTV/HATV those would need to have collassal EHP values to balance the risk. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 CRONOS. 250	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:11:00 - [13] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: this while it is a good idea causes another problem. right now the redline rails arnt truly invulnerable and can still be damaged and while they oftin duck behind cover they can technically still be damaged even though its not really all that likely. with the introduction of true invulnerability you will see people start to take advantage and poke their heads out shoot then return to the bubble before any possable return fire and have TRUE invulnerability rather then the psudo invulnerability they have now. meaning redline rails will simply be stuck inside small bubbles and will come out for just enough time to take pot shots then return to their invulnerable palace where absolutly nothing you can do outside of a tank blockade around the bubble will stop them. so while it is an interesting idea i dont think that replacing psudo-invulnerability with ACTUAL invulnerability is a good idea as it opens up the situation for even more blantant and dangerous abuses then we currently have to deal with. especially concidering it alows a rail tank to remain completly invulnerable from dropships while still giving the railtank every advantage in the fight it currently has. your solution doesnt actually solve the problem it intends to solve and instead keeps the problem the exact same while potentially creating new problems along the way. depending on how its done it could also prevent you from being able to orbital redline rails, removing one of our only real ways to get rid of redline rail infestations. TL:DR the cure is worse then the disease I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure Support The DUST514 TREEEEEEESSS
Leonid Tybalt Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 276	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:25:00 - [14] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline. Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners. As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks. Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly.
Beld Errmon 0uter.Heaven 1407	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:33:00 - [15] - Quote BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP If you actually believe this then you are an idiot.
ALT2 acc 155	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:35:00 - [16] - Quote BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP Umm, yes they are op as hell. Blasters are op Rails are op without redline, a railgun below a dropship 30m away instapops it... Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 632	Posted - 2014.02.28 12:59:00 - [17] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline. Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners. As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks. Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this! Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 632	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:05:00 - [18] - Quote I would like to see changes to the railgun yes, so that TTK among tanks is prolonged. Not NERFED, but MODIFIED to better fit the environment they are in. I have a bit of a problem with a long range, high damage weapon, that easily 3 - 5 shots tanks (or outright murderers dropships). I see a long range weapon as more of a support weapon, not the end all to vehicles. But I think the biggest problem is that it works at any sort of range effectively. It has no true weakness, like being restricted by range, or low DPS against hardeners, all I see are positives! My sig details my idea on turrets. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2098	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:20:00 - [19] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline. Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners. As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks. Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this! Fair statement, I also agree that really cycled hardners are more of a problem than stacked, it removes the waves of opportunity philosophy that CCP were going for. Shield tanks can easily assault fortified positions the much higher resistance per mod allows them to push much faster than the armour counterparts. Remember as a tank you goal is not charge slaughter everything, loose hardners keep killing. You are designed to punch a hole through enemy positions, as soon as you do that you retreat to alow MTV, MTACs and Infantry to come streaming and fight insode the fortified position, where its an even fight. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 391	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:20:00 - [20] - Quote BAMM HAVOC wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: this while it is a good idea causes another problem. right now the redline rails arnt truly invulnerable and can still be damaged and while they oftin duck behind cover they can technically still be damaged even though its not really all that likely. with the introduction of true invulnerability you will see people start to take advantage and poke their heads out shoot then return to the bubble before any possable return fire and have TRUE invulnerability rather then the psudo invulnerability they have now. meaning redline rails will simply be stuck inside small bubbles and will come out for just enough time to take pot shots then return to their invulnerable palace where absolutly nothing you can do outside of a tank blockade around the bubble will stop them. so while it is an interesting idea i dont think that replacing psudo-invulnerability with ACTUAL invulnerability is a good idea as it opens up the situation for even more blantant and dangerous abuses then we currently have to deal with. especially concidering it alows a rail tank to remain completly invulnerable from dropships while still giving the railtank every advantage in the fight it currently has. your solution doesnt actually solve the problem it intends to solve and instead keeps the problem the exact same while potentially creating new problems along the way. depending on how its done it could also prevent you from being able to orbital redline rails, removing one of our only real ways to get rid of redline rail infestations. TL:DR the cure is worse then the disease I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure My fav part of the vid is where your illustrating the Judges use of the pythagorean theorem on your crayon paper against his really clean modeled diagrams..... Good video, I do think however as someone already said that the area to break the redline might become insufficent.... However not allowing rails to shoot from the redline might be just as good, this technically wouldnt be a rail nerf just a change in the map mechanics, that affects rail sniping. What I have long advocated for is a change in the contours of the redline so that the line its self would be moved to a contour of the map that had the team trying, to push out moving up hill, therefore the redline would not sit on the crest of a ridge like it does it all maps except Ashland, with the line on a uphill feature this means the enemy can get close enough to have top position and therefore superior position that doesnt allow the tank to roll behind a ridge crest..... Instead you would make the sniper tank vulnerable in the redline, and while you could still take cover inside it being routed and completely stopped by a superior team wouod mean you start out from a weaker position.

INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC Intara Direct Action Caldari State 392	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:34:00 - [21] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline. Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners. As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks. Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this! Fair statement, I also agree that really cycled hardners are more of a problem than stacked, it removes the waves of opportunity philosophy that CCP were going for. Shield tanks can easily assault fortified positions the much higher resistance per mod allows them to push much faster than the armour counterparts. Remember as a tank you goal is not charge slaughter everything, loose hardners keep killing. You are designed to punch a hole through enemy positions, as soon as you do that you retreat to alow MTV, MTACs and Infantry to come streaming and fight insode the fortified position, where its an even fight. Cant really agree here because your creating to much of a pitched battle scenario, tanks to have the freedom to play as they see fit.... Even if it means sitting on top of the spire at Alpha on Line Harvest Skirm raining rail shells down on my head at tabletop..... If we nerf the gun, or change the map I could accept that though I hate nerfs, but I hate things being implemented to tell the tanker he cant ohk with his rail gun while doing a solo 'yolo', " <---- nerf this word", 360 noscope spin with his turret off that damn spire even more, its like telling heavies they cant use rifles, or you cant forge people only vehicles, or scouts should only shotgun and scan and hack, or massdrivers are for noobs, logis aint supposed to kill, etc etc etc.... Same road cant go down it.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1370	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:37:00 - [22] - Quote BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP The rail turret is OP. It has an ungodly RoF now that has caused every non-tanker and his mother to call one out as an easy counter to any tank that comes on the field. My skill investment in twnks doesn't matter, my missiles have no real use. Just pull out a mil rail and fit. Sick of it. Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
kaizuka sniper Nyain San Renegade Alliance 4	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:43:00 - [23] - Quote should increase recoil of the blaster tank. blaster tank is too kill infantry. Does not resolve the nerf and vehicle limit. If buff anti-vehicle weapon as well but, av-nades n swarm lucher need add move-penalty or modules-penalty to tank
BAMM HAVOC Carbon 7 CRONOS. 253	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:46:00 - [24] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure My fav part of the vid is where your illustrating the Judges use of the pythagorean theorem on your crayon paper against his really clean modeled diagrams..... Good video, I do think however as someone already said that the area to break the redline might become insufficent.... However not allowing rails to shoot from the redline might be just as good, this technically wouldnt be a rail nerf just a change in the map mechanics, that affects rail sniping. What I have long advocated for is a change in the contours of the redline so that the line its self would be moved to a contour of the map that had the team trying, to push out moving up hill, therefore the redline would not sit on the crest of a ridge like it does it all maps except Ashland, with the line on a uphill feature this means the enemy can get close enough to have top position and therefore superior position that doesnt allow the tank to roll behind a ridge crest..... Instead you would make the sniper tank vulnerable in the redline, and while you could still take cover inside it being routed and completely stopped by a superior team wouod mean you start out from a weaker position. [/quote] this sounds like a good solution to the problem, dare i say it better than the ideas expressed in this video.... i drawn on a 4 year old level hahaha i had to do something to inject some humour into this as his video was all maths and seriousness and i had to counter act that, if you know me or have seen any of my videos seriousness is not my bag, Judge Rhadamanthus's video is a pure master piece and a very competent argument from his point of view, this video however just shows there are alternatives to nerfing, going by the responses from this community there are tonnes of ideas out there and that's what i want interaction, ideas, suggestions and get the community talking about solutions to problems we face in DUST514 instead of constantly moaning and calling for nerfs. Support The DUST514 TREEEEEEESSS
ALT2 acc 158	Posted - 2014.02.28 13:46:00 - [25] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: BAMM HAVOC wrote: No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP The rail turret is OP. It has an ungodly RoF now that has caused every non-tanker and his mother to call one out as an easy counter to any tank that comes on the field. My skill investment in twnks doesn't matter, my missiles have no real use. Just pull out a mil rail and fit. Sick of it. Dont forget dropships are still useless Ads or nothing Std dropships need more cpu, pg, and speed. Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2927	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:02:00 - [26] - Quote What's up with these presentations which are really rambling audios with a completely unrelated match video for background? The video content serves only to distract from the fact that you can't make your point clearly and succinctly. I kept waiting for the video to be relevant and it never delivered. This one had a tiny insert with original content for a short period, but it: A) Wasn't the main focus and B) Wasn't adequately explained or developed. The crayon drawing of Judge's idea was never used to refute anything. It was just "Here's my drawing of his much better presentation, and I don't agree with it. Now here's my cool bubble idea, it will fix everything so you can ignore all his facts and well developed arguments." This is pure opinion, just a "nu-uh!". It doesn't present new facts, it doesn't analyze and dismantle previous arguments, and it doesn't present any new reasoning of its own. It's opinion with no backup. This is supposed to be a refutation of Judge's presentation?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2733	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:08:00 - [27] - Quote Move back both spawns about 1000m Job done Intelligence is OP
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3635	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:11:00 - [28] - Quote Alternate Insano wrote: The redline is the only thing helping a new player survive against a 30mil SP vet with 5 different proto suits and enough ISK to run them all day. You may not notice, but new players aren't falling all over themselves to come here. Even with Sony putting the DUST demo in with the PS3. There are so many things that need to be fixed before any discussion to remove the redline could begin in earnest. These things will not be though. Someone thinks they can (foolishly) copy EVE, which is a computer game that had no competition at launch 10 years ago. Now that there are better games on the horizon, the only players sticking up for EVE are the ones way up on top of the pile. Which is exactly what's going on with DUST. The only problem is this is a console game, and console gamers don't have to wait 10 years for a game to get better, because by then they will have a drivers license, figure out what girls are, and stop gaming until they're 40. Five Proto suits would be a horrible, horrible use of 30 million SP. You'd need 2.5 million per proto suit skill, and that's ignoring getting the various basic frames to 3. You'd burn up about half of your 30 mill like that. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Vag Eye Lenol Council of Planetary Management 42	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:12:00 - [29] - Quote Tanks are Op and undervalued. When a tank can outrun an Lav, that's Op. Slow the freaking things down and that would fix a lot of problems, raise the value and that would fix many more problems. Yeah it's fair to spec into tanks and be a tanker and get a group and run a tank squad, although a craptacular tactic, it's legit. However, when a op tank costs less than a leveled logi setup, it's pretty clear that it's not balanced.
ALT2 acc 158	Posted - 2014.02.28 14:12:00 - [30] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Move back both spawns about 1000m Job done Or 600m, the rails range Hater attractor proficiency 5, hater attractor optimization 5.



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