INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
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Posted - 2014.02.28 11:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
BAMM HAVOC wrote:No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP
I have not read your rebuttal yet I will, and I also hate nerfs, but the judges video is solid, and maps shouldnt need changing to make a vehicle less powerful, Im not saying you couldnt fix the problem by changing map contour near the redline as I have advocated for this for other reasons, but rails are broken beyond the redline I think..... Most dropship pilots would agree I think, we dont need a hard nerf though because they do keep dropships in check which I like but they need some help against 1 shot or 2 shots from rails and that exists in and out of the redline.... |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
BAMM HAVOC wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:this while it is a good idea causes another problem.
right now the redline rails arnt truly invulnerable and can still be damaged and while they oftin duck behind cover they can technically still be damaged even though its not really all that likely.
with the introduction of true invulnerability you will see people start to take advantage and poke their heads out shoot then return to the bubble before any possable return fire and have TRUE invulnerability rather then the psudo invulnerability they have now.
meaning redline rails will simply be stuck inside small bubbles and will come out for just enough time to take pot shots then return to their invulnerable palace where absolutly nothing you can do outside of a tank blockade around the bubble will stop them.
so while it is an interesting idea i dont think that replacing psudo-invulnerability with ACTUAL invulnerability is a good idea as it opens up the situation for even more blantant and dangerous abuses then we currently have to deal with. especially concidering it alows a rail tank to remain completly invulnerable from dropships while still giving the railtank every advantage in the fight it currently has.
your solution doesnt actually solve the problem it intends to solve and instead keeps the problem the exact same while potentially creating new problems along the way.
depending on how its done it could also prevent you from being able to orbital redline rails, removing one of our only real ways to get rid of redline rail infestations.
TL:DR the cure is worse then the disease I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure  My fav part of the vid is where your illustrating the Judges use of the pythagorean theorem on your crayon paper against his really clean modeled diagrams..... Good video, I do think however as someone already said that the area to break the redline might become insufficent.... However not allowing rails to shoot from the redline might be just as good, this technically wouldnt be a rail nerf just a change in the map mechanics, that affects rail sniping.
What I have long advocated for is a change in the contours of the redline so that the line its self would be moved to a contour of the map that had the team trying, to push out moving up hill, therefore the redline would not sit on the crest of a ridge like it does it all maps except Ashland, with the line on a uphill feature this means the enemy can get close enough to have top position and therefore superior position that doesnt allow the tank to roll behind a ridge crest.....
Instead you would make the sniper tank vulnerable in the redline, and while you could still take cover inside it being routed and completely stopped by a superior team wouod mean you start out from a weaker position.
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline.
Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners.
As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks.
Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this! Fair statement, I also agree that really cycled hardners are more of a problem than stacked, it removes the waves of opportunity philosophy that CCP were going for. Shield tanks can easily assault fortified positions the much higher resistance per mod allows them to push much faster than the armour counterparts. Remember as a tank you goal is not charge slaughter everything, loose hardners keep killing. You are designed to punch a hole through enemy positions, as soon as you do that you retreat to alow MTV, MTACs and Infantry to come streaming and fight insode the fortified position, where its an even fight. Cant really agree here because your creating to much of a pitched battle scenario, tanks to have the freedom to play as they see fit.... Even if it means sitting on top of the spire at Alpha on Line Harvest Skirm raining rail shells down on my head at tabletop..... If we nerf the gun, or change the map I could accept that though I hate nerfs, but I hate things being implemented to tell the tanker he cant ohk with his rail gun while doing a solo 'yolo', " <---- nerf this word", 360 noscope spin with his turret off that damn spire even more, its like telling heavies they cant use rifles, or you cant forge people only vehicles, or scouts should only shotgun and scan and hack, or massdrivers are for noobs, logis aint supposed to kill, etc etc etc.... Same road cant go down it.
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