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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further .
My Rebuttal
DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
250
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Just dropped a rail tank with a neutron blaster. Text book, kept something between us, lost his hardener and rushed him. Pop. OP it is not. If they hide in the Red Line (which is their decision) I bring out the PC +damage and get them sooner or later. 9 out of 10 times they get popped. Just planning, although having a high sniper doing over watch is very helpful. Most if not all of the QQ Kittens on these forums are just rage kitties that cannot think for themselves. Constant whining and wanting to have a Push To Win button that only works For Them! Then when someone else kills them three times in one match they never shut up about again. If that is a rail gun tank or a proto sniper it really doesn't matter. It doesn't help that Cannot Comprehend Programming only balances by swinging abilities to the extremes.
agreed, this however is an idea (and I stress it might not be the right one) on how to remove the redline from the game, I don't believe the "Tank" is op .... remove the redline and the rail tank sitting there sniping for kills has to rethink the loadout, this forces a balance between defence and damage out put ... thus negating the need for any nerfs, I hate nerfs, history in DUST 514 has shown that nerfs have completely kill off the use of laser rifles, flay locks and swarm launchers and it takes the devs months to get the balance right case and point is the "heavy nerf" , fix the situation the Rail Tank and snipers are abusing ( the red line ) and the problems will balance themselves .... I would prefer the devs to focus on the games core mechanics and repair those before they begin nerfing, you cannot judge balance on bugs and I believe that if the devs fix the issues first they can start balancing suit weapons and vehicles correctly and there will be less of this QQ nonsense and forum warriors farming for likes... as they do
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
250
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Posted - 2014.02.28 12:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:this while it is a good idea causes another problem.
right now the redline rails arnt truly invulnerable and can still be damaged and while they oftin duck behind cover they can technically still be damaged even though its not really all that likely.
with the introduction of true invulnerability you will see people start to take advantage and poke their heads out shoot then return to the bubble before any possable return fire and have TRUE invulnerability rather then the psudo invulnerability they have now.
meaning redline rails will simply be stuck inside small bubbles and will come out for just enough time to take pot shots then return to their invulnerable palace where absolutly nothing you can do outside of a tank blockade around the bubble will stop them.
so while it is an interesting idea i dont think that replacing psudo-invulnerability with ACTUAL invulnerability is a good idea as it opens up the situation for even more blantant and dangerous abuses then we currently have to deal with. especially concidering it alows a rail tank to remain completly invulnerable from dropships while still giving the railtank every advantage in the fight it currently has.
your solution doesnt actually solve the problem it intends to solve and instead keeps the problem the exact same while potentially creating new problems along the way.
depending on how its done it could also prevent you from being able to orbital redline rails, removing one of our only real ways to get rid of redline rail infestations.
TL:DR the cure is worse then the disease
I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
253
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:I agree this idea does have its faults and its not the instant cure that we all want, it is just an idea, but I think you have missed the point of what I was trying to express in this video.... I loath nerfs and I don't want the rail tank to be nerfed im trying to provide a different solution to nerfing and this idea is one such solution. There are many others and im sure a combination of these ideas will see the change in tactics which has a knock on effect to the loadout of the tank and therefore lowers the DPS, no need for nerfs.... wipe out the source of the disease and there wont be a need for a cure My fav part of the vid is where your illustrating the Judges use of the pythagorean theorem on your crayon paper against his really clean modeled diagrams..... Good video, I do think however as someone already said that the area to break the redline might become insufficent.... However not allowing rails to shoot from the redline might be just as good, this technically wouldnt be a rail nerf just a change in the map mechanics, that affects rail sniping.
What I have long advocated for is a change in the contours of the redline so that the line its self would be moved to a contour of the map that had the team trying, to push out moving up hill, therefore the redline would not sit on the crest of a ridge like it does it all maps except Ashland, with the line on a uphill feature this means the enemy can get close enough to have top position and therefore superior position that doesnt allow the tank to roll behind a ridge crest.....
Instead you would make the sniper tank vulnerable in the redline, and while you could still take cover inside it being routed and completely stopped by a superior team wouod mean you start out from a weaker position. [/quote]
this sounds like a good solution to the problem, dare i say it better than the ideas expressed in this video....
i drawn on a 4 year old level hahaha i had to do something to inject some humour into this as his video was all maths and seriousness and i had to counter act that, if you know me or have seen any of my videos seriousness is not my bag, Judge Rhadamanthus's video is a pure master piece and a very competent argument from his point of view, this video however just shows there are alternatives to nerfing, going by the responses from this community there are tonnes of ideas out there and that's what i want interaction, ideas, suggestions and get the community talking about solutions to problems we face in DUST514 instead of constantly moaning and calling for nerfs.
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
253
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Posted - 2014.02.28 14:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:
This is pure opinion, just a "nu-uh!". It doesn't present new facts, it doesn't analyze and dismantle previous arguments, and it doesn't present any new reasoning of its own. It's opinion with no backup.
This is supposed to be a refutation of Judge's presentation?
i think you sir have missed the point of this video ....
this "nu-uh!" wasn't made or "designed" to dismantle any Judge Rhadamanthus's suggestions apart from 1, there is no structure to it and it is badly edited with left over crappy footage i had spare and used as a filler, with abit of awesome artistic flare, its is there to offer an alternative to nerfing. and calling for a nerf to anything under the basis of "he shot me" isn't reason or justification to nerf something..... this is just an idea granted not the right one but it has grabbed the attention of a few mercs and hopefully they will continue to post there ideas and suggestions and make others aware of this matter, on abit of a side note.... Judge Rhadamanthus himself has been asking me to post this video for some time now, believe it or not he wants to hear others thoughts and opinions on this matter especially the ones that don't agree with him as it enlightens the guy and helps him develop a more informed opinion, Judge Rhadamanthus and myself might not agree on many things when we Skype or squad together but we both agree on making the DUST514 community more aware of the issues at hand.
may i ask for your opinions on the Red Line Rail Tank ?
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
257
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Posted - 2014.02.28 15:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:It would be nice to see the redline go; so I can freely fly off into the distance in my derpship and go explore those massive Loldari and Faillente cities we often see in the far distance!
+1 to that
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BAMM HAVOC
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
268
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Posted - 2014.03.03 14:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oxskull Duncarino wrote:TheD1CK wrote:Heavy Attack Vehicle.... By that name to be fair you expect it to be OP... If tanks were not the hardest hitting weapon in Dust, they would be useless I have posted a thread, discussing a limit to total HAV's per team HAV V AVI think that may be a decent solution , but thats my opinion Bamm makes some good points here, and it is necessary As before CCP can listen to player feedback, they need to see a perspective from all roles .... I'll just add to this by saying HMG, heavy machine gun, a name by which you would be forgiven for thinking similarly to your above post on the name HAV, but unfortunately needs massive eHP and a nice friendly logi to be effective in just spitting distance So many naming issues with gear in this game, but fortunately(I hope) CCP don't balance by name. I'll check the video later Bamm, and I'm expecting/hoping there to have been loads of crayons used. Or really bad Paintbrushing And the only pie chart had better be made out of a good pork pie.
The Epicness of those illustrations would make even the ninja turtles Jelly
Here is another idea...
If you want to limit the HAV spam without having a hard cap on them.... why not link all vehicles to the War Points if a player doesn't acquire War Points he doesn't get the opportunity to call in LAVs, HAVs and Dropships this then forces a ground game at first and because its linked to the squads War Points not everyone can spam them and it forces them to join a squad and get involved with the Team Effort and contributing towards the win, abit like the Orbital Strikes only with vehicles ... again this is only an idea (and before I get flamed) I know its probably not the right one, but as I have said before in this thread a few times now... at least it offers No Nerfs and is an alternative to them . Which is ultimately my main aim here with this thread and video and I will stay it again calling for Nerfs and raging about equipment that's supposedly "game breaking" under the premise of " He/She shot me " is not reason or justification enough to Nerf Anything.
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