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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2094
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Posted - 2014.02.28 10:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline.
Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners.
As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks.
Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2096
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Posted - 2014.02.28 12:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:BAMM HAVOC wrote:No this time its not a troll, this is my response to "Judge Rhadamanthus" and his call for nerfs on the rail tank which I believe he has unfairly focused on, when the real issues are the Red Line and Map Design , here I suggest another alternative that would solve the red line and map design issues he is facing .... and we can leave that nerf hammer alone, I really HATE NERFS and I believe nerfing breaks the mechanics of the game further . My Rebuttal DUST 514 : Tanks are NOT OP I have not read your rebuttal yet I will, and I also hate nerfs, but the judges video is solid, and maps shouldnt need changing to make a vehicle less powerful, Im not saying you couldnt fix the problem by changing map contour near the redline as I have advocated for this for other reasons, but rails are broken beyond the redline I think..... Most dropship pilots would agree I think, we dont need a hard nerf though because they do keep dropships in check which I like but they need some help against 1 shot or 2 shots from rails and that exists in and out of the redline....
Would it not make sense to buff dropships?
Assuming the redline is fixed std and logistics dropships are still to weak to do their primary role of infantry transport.
Ideally the MTV/MATV vehicles should have a higher tank than HAV/HAAV units, because they require more time to be effective.
In the event we evef get HTV/HATV those would need to have collassal EHP values to balance the risk.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2098
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Posted - 2014.02.28 13:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline.
Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners.
As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks.
Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this!
Fair statement, I also agree that really cycled hardners are more of a problem than stacked, it removes the waves of opportunity philosophy that CCP were going for.
Shield tanks can easily assault fortified positions the much higher resistance per mod allows them to push much faster than the armour counterparts.
Remember as a tank you goal is not charge slaughter everything, loose hardners keep killing.
You are designed to punch a hole through enemy positions, as soon as you do that you retreat to alow MTV, MTACs and Infantry to come streaming and fight insode the fortified position, where its an even fight.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2100
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Posted - 2014.02.28 14:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Its a difficult topic, when it comes to rails v anything, the redline is indeed the problem, but I don't think takes away from the disproportionate amount of effort required to kill a tank, with or without a redline.
Removing or fixing the redline is the first step, but we need to consider more over the ramifications of stacked or cycled hardners.
As I said in a post before .7 dropped the hardners stack to easily to give MASSIVE EHP, with very few drawbacks.
Until we look at hardners tanks will not be balanced by infantry. Cycled hardeners shouldn't be nerfed. You have to really work your butt off to earn enough SP to be able to cycle hardeners with no delay, and that effort should be rewarded. Stacked hardeners however I can agree that they are op. I only just recently learned that you can actually get even more damage resistance by activating two or three hardeners at once. Im not a noob, it's just that in my folly I honestly didn't believe that ccp would be stupid enough to let hardener bonuses to be able to stack. That decision was pretty insane honestly. Yeah, but by stacking the timers, you effectively make yourself far more vulnerable at the end of said cycles. Where using one and then the other prolongs your active time, and mitigaties any down time. Problem with one hardener (and understand you are talkling gunnlogi here, not madrudger.) is that it just won't give enough to make a push on anything fortified. Gunnlogis already have very low HP compared to a madrudger, and one hardener often doesn't cut it. What will happen, the madrudger will once again, become king of the tanks. ANY CHANGES YOU DO TO HARDENERS, WILL DIRECTLY AFFECT GUNNLOGIS, AND HARDLY TOUCH MADRUDGERS. You can't go about generalizing tanks like this! Fair statement, I also agree that really cycled hardners are more of a problem than stacked, it removes the waves of opportunity philosophy that CCP were going for. Shield tanks can easily assault fortified positions the much higher resistance per mod allows them to push much faster than the armour counterparts. Remember as a tank you goal is not charge slaughter everything, loose hardners keep killing. You are designed to punch a hole through enemy positions, as soon as you do that you retreat to alow MTV, MTACs and Infantry to come streaming and fight insode the fortified position, where its an even fight. Cant really agree here because your creating to much of a pitched battle scenario, tanks to have the freedom to play as they see fit.... Even if it means sitting on top of the spire at Alpha on Line Harvest Skirm raining rail shells down on my head at tabletop.....  If we nerf the gun, or change the map I could accept that though I hate nerfs, but I hate things being implemented to tell the tanker he cant ohk with his rail gun while doing a solo 'yolo', " <---- nerf this word", 360 noscope spin with his turret off that damn spire even more, its like telling heavies they cant use rifles, or you cant forge people only vehicles, or scouts should only shotgun and scan and hack, or massdrivers are for noobs, logis aint supposed to kill, etc etc etc.... Same road cant go down it.
Oh by no means am I saying that's the ONLY role tanks can play, Im merely giving an example where the current meta allows tanks to go above an beyond the roles that can be expected of it. Like the slayer logi, it wasn't the fact he kill, it was the fact that he could kill better than the suit designed for killing, he could overstep what would be reasonably expected of the class.
By all means play tanks how you want, infact I encourage you to dobso, just bear in mind that every role should have a drawback, if you play as a heavy hitting long range artillery tank you need to be prepared for counter by a short range sneak attack. The problem is that by a combination of cycling/stacking hardners and retreating behind the redline, artillery tanks can do what the to without rebuke/risk and anti-infantry tanks can be ON for much longer than can be deemed reasonable.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2100
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Posted - 2014.02.28 14:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:So what are a of you going to do when a HAV gets five logi to constantly rep them? That is about 500 HP per second, is that op? People don't try to destroy them and the few that do usually do it. The people trying to say the HAV is over powered want to solo a HAV but it doesn't and shouldn't be. They are fine, try harder.
We play a 16v16 game, if we assume each side deploys 6, that leaves 10 infantryman giving a ratio of 1:1.6 Tanks v Infantry, now so long as this ratio remains expecting more than 1 person per tank is actually grossly unfair.
Until that ratio (approx 1:5) is higher infantry side expecting more than 1 person per tank is mathematically unbalanced!
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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