DUST Search - Rant about Unreal Engine 3 (UE3)

Heathen Bastard wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Bear in mind, for all of UE3's downfalls - it's cheap as the dickens. I don't remember actual numbers but I know that to get a commercial license for the Unreal Engine it's only a few hundred dollars. The catch, however, is that you have to pay royalties for every $10,000 you make (annually) with your game. So as far as them maximizing profit from a free-to-play game, you can't really expect them to shell out half of what they make for something crazy like the Cryengine or Forgelight engine when, again, it's a free-to-play game when the only other real investor is of course Sony.

That being said, yes, it's a **** engine... but it's a **** engine that's cheap enough that CCP can afford to dish out a free game, with free updates.

Or, they could optimize the carbon engine they had up and running for ps3, or in 6 months when the PS4 has enough dev support and such, use the carbon engine for that and drop ps3 dust.

Note, that the carbon engine was in house, and therefore cost them nothing but the man hours to optimize it to the point where dust would run on PS3.

Chris Butcher wrote:

The current generation of consoles, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, they have a lot of headroom still for us. We have the most optimized game engine weGÇÖve ever produced for these consoles. WeGÇÖre getting at the point now where we are wringing pretty much every ounce of juice out of the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. WeGÇÖre running higher character counts and higher player counts than we thought would even be possible on these things because weGÇÖre using every ounce of the CPUs and the SPUs and weGÇÖre offloading stuff to the graphics processor. YouGÇÖre basically eating the whole buffalo at this point in the current generation. And thatGÇÖs been our target right from the start is to make sure that we can provide that game experience that is consistent for everybody.

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Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1375	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:49:00 - [1] - Quote https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! Drop it like its hat. CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1268	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! don't think carbon isn't coming.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1375	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:57:00 - [3] - Quote low genius wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! don't think carbon isn't coming. I doubt it too, but wouldnt it be awesome if CCP Rogue announced it as a 2014 target? :D Drop it like its hat. CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1666	Posted - 2014.02.23 20:57:00 - [4] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! Thanks for that, it's a good link. JUst to add our Aim Assist is also using precanned UR3 routines. The counterpoint imo is Bioshock Infinite. The gun mechanics there are spot on. Speculating that Irrational did the job right and reviewed/replaced any of the UR3 tools that did not measure up to the job. Also, looking at Borderlands 2, i think we see an example of precanned UR3 routines used to much better effect. And ofc in both cases, the MMO nature of DUST only server to exacerbate any failings of the game engine. I support SP rollover.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1375	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:03:00 - [5] - Quote Best comment: "7. Mouse lag. This one is PC specific but there is something about UE3 that makes it hate mice. Sometimes it only happens if you have V Sync on, sometimes only if you have it off. Sometimes it doesn't matter what your settings are, the mouse will lag regardless. In a shooting game, like most based on the UE3 engine, it's a cardinal sin to have an unresponsive mouse. And what's worse, it's even turned on by default and requires dicking around in .ini files to turn off and, in the case of Bulletstorm, those files were locked on release so you couldn't change them. What the **. That's just fcking dumb." Drop it like its hat*. CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 5381	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: I doubt it too, but wouldnt it be awesome if CCP Rogue announced it as a 2014 target? :D It would not, because then we'd get our hopes up and wouldn't see it until 2016. Fatal Absolution's official bench warmer (scoot over Faquira) and mascot I go negative in PC, yay
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1378	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:10:00 - [7] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: I doubt it too, but wouldnt it be awesome if CCP Rogue announced it as a 2014 target? :D It would not, because then we'd get our hopes up and wouldn't see it until 2016. :( Bbbbbut... CCP Rogue... our saviour?! Drop it like its hat. CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven 1424	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:19:00 - [8] - Quote Wow his rant, despite being a tad bit ornery, was pretty spot on. The frame rate issues and mouse lag have been my two biggest issues with the game since I started playing. I can handle broken mechanics and ever-changing FotM, but compounding those things with a game that runs poorly and suffers from horrible input makes me really have moments where I hate the game. I sincerely hope that something will eventually be done about this games ****-poor performance, and I hope that they eventually redo mouse controls to give us raw input or at least something that feels like raw input. Right now there's very noticeable input delay on the mouse which makes CQC an absolute nightmare. I've given up the fight on aim assist as I agree it's needed for controllers, but at least even the playing field by not giving us severely gimped mouse controls. Let me play you the song of my people!
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1379	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:24:00 - [9] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: The frame rate issues and mouse lag have been my two biggest issues with the game since I started playing. QFT. I wonder if we ever will see a fix to these two problems. I think they are the most important issues to solve right now. Framerate and controls, can it get more basic in a first person shooter? Drop it like its hat. CCP - Working hard on the (d)evolution of Dust 514 since 2013.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 444	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:28:00 - [10] - Quote i dont understand all the hate for unreal. I teach it to jr high kids and the only problems we run into is our computers aren't the best so we get some lag issues. to bypass this issue we just either use a low texture static mesh for the sky or just don't put anything up there at all. But other than that i haven't seen any real issues. right now they are creating their own personal maps so they can play against each other to see who made the funnest map. then after that we are having some art kids make some models in 3ds max so we can have some custom characters, static meshes, and weapons/items . the only thing we have custom is a sword some art kid drew up in a couple of hours. oh and for weapons, all it really is, is stat tweaking. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1315	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:35:00 - [11] - Quote low genius wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! don't think carbon isn't coming. Yah why would CCP want to invest in optimizing their engine. when they can pay royalties for the unreal engine.
McFurious TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 645	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:37:00 - [12] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! That explains a lot. This means that there's not going to be much CCP can do to fix the engine itself if it has the same problems on PC. They'll have to switch engines at some point. Half Irish. Often angry. Closed Beta Masshole
Aeon Amadi Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 5062	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:46:00 - [13] - Quote Bear in mind, for all of UE3's downfalls - it's cheap as the dickens. I don't remember actual numbers but I know that to get a commercial license for the Unreal Engine it's only a few hundred dollars. The catch, however, is that you have to pay royalties for every $10,000 you make (annually) with your game. So as far as them maximizing profit from a free-to-play game, you can't really expect them to shell out half of what they make for something crazy like the Cryengine or Forgelight engine when, again, it's a free-to-play game when the only other real investor is of course Sony. That being said, yes, it's a ** engine... but it's a ** engine that's cheap enough that CCP can afford to dish out a free game, with free updates. Useful Links //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588 //forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 993	Posted - 2014.02.23 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Bear in mind, for all of UE3's downfalls - it's cheap as the dickens. I don't remember actual numbers but I know that to get a commercial license for the Unreal Engine it's only a few hundred dollars. The catch, however, is that you have to pay royalties for every $10,000 you make (annually) with your game. So as far as them maximizing profit from a free-to-play game, you can't really expect them to shell out half of what they make for something crazy like the Cryengine or Forgelight engine when, again, it's a free-to-play game when the only other real investor is of course Sony. That being said, yes, it's a ** engine... but it's a ** engine that's cheap enough that CCP can afford to dish out a free game, with free updates. Or, they could optimize the carbon engine they had up and running for ps3, or in 6 months when the PS4 has enough dev support and such, use the carbon engine for that and drop ps3 dust. Note, that the carbon engine was in house, and therefore cost them nothing but the man hours to optimize it to the point where dust would run on PS3. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1316	Posted - 2014.02.23 22:12:00 - [15] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Bear in mind, for all of UE3's downfalls - it's cheap as the dickens. I don't remember actual numbers but I know that to get a commercial license for the Unreal Engine it's only a few hundred dollars. The catch, however, is that you have to pay royalties for every $10,000 you make (annually) with your game. So as far as them maximizing profit from a free-to-play game, you can't really expect them to shell out half of what they make for something crazy like the Cryengine or Forgelight engine when, again, it's a free-to-play game when the only other real investor is of course Sony. That being said, yes, it's a ** engine... but it's a engine that's cheap enough that CCP can afford to dish out a free game, with free updates. Or, they could optimize the carbon engine they had up and running for ps3, or in 6 months when the PS4 has enough dev support and such, use the carbon engine for that and drop ps3 dust. Note, that the carbon engine was in house, and therefore cost them nothing but the man hours to optimize it to the point where dust would run on PS3. It's what I'm saying it's an investment that would of made sense for not only now but the future of CCP products as a whole. Bungie : Chris Butcher wrote:** The current generation of consoles, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, they have a lot of headroom still for us. We have the most optimized game engine weGÇÖve ever produced for these consoles. WeGÇÖre getting at the point now where we are wringing pretty much every ounce of juice out of the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. WeGÇÖre running higher character counts and higher player counts than we thought would even be possible on these things because weGÇÖre using every ounce of the CPUs and the SPUs and weGÇÖre offloading stuff to the graphics processor. YouGÇÖre basically eating the whole buffalo at this point in the current generation. And thatGÇÖs been our target right from the start is to make sure that we can provide that game experience that is consistent for everybody. From what i heard its something like 25% royalties for every 10,000 Earned for the Ue3 License via royalties without buying it outright for 1 million... 25% of revenue for a year is a fair bit of money to spend ontop of costs, for a product that isn't going to advance the future of CCP. When an inhouse engine or developing relationships with a high end Game engine licensing process would be worth the investment if CCP is serious about DUST's future in the EVE universe.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2895	Posted - 2014.02.23 22:56:00 - [16] - Quote With all the problems they have with simple game development, you want them to build it on an in-house beta engine?!?
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 475	Posted - 2014.02.23 23:04:00 - [17] - Quote Skihids wrote: With all the problems they have with simple game development, you want them to build it on an in-house beta engine?!? Have you seen the footage of the game running off of that in-house beta engine? Absolutely gorgeous stuff. If we ever see the transition of this game from PS3 to PS4 or PC in the years ahead then I sincerely hope we see the return of Carbon or a comparable engine. Saga v. Methana Balance
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 2805	Posted - 2014.02.23 23:08:00 - [18] - Quote If random internet articles are going to the basis behind everyones decision to do something we are in trouble. http://nineinchnews.com/obama-admits-aliens-secretly-running-government/ Templar BPO(375Mil) EVE Pilot I feed off your tears
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 1788	Posted - 2014.02.23 23:15:00 - [19] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! Dude, IDTMWYTTM. A New Engine would imply having to basically redo the entire game from my understanding of coding. Like replacing the Foundation on a house. Looking for a Interesting Character Name? Why Not Zoidberg?
Hynox Xitio Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 113	Posted - 2014.02.23 23:18:00 - [20] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: https://sites.google.com/site/arrjayjee/arrjayjees-rants/i-hate-unreal-engine-3 Wow, That rant includes some of problems that we see in Dust 514 (problems are also apparent on the PC): 2. Jumpy frame rate. 4. Horrible texture pop-in. 7. Mouse lag. Maybe UE3 wasnt the best choice. Link to old thread about the subject: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88775 Lets hope they announce a new engine at Fan Fest 2014! They said they wanted to use EVE's engine, but the PS3 they tested it on melted. EVE's graphics kinda cheat though, because all they have to make are really pretty backgrounds, spheres, and ship geometry, the hardest of which being Gallente and Amarr ships with all their curves. Unleash the Fogwoggler

Th3rdSun L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 615	Posted - 2014.02.24 00:29:00 - [21] - Quote UE3 isn't the issue,PS3 is.This console can't handle the demands of the game,and I'm pretty sure that has less to do with the engine than the console. Until this game gets put on PS4,nothing will change to make the gameplay experience any better.
gustavo acosta Omega Elite Mercs INC. 49	Posted - 2014.02.24 00:31:00 - [22] - Quote CCP should have used the Geo-mod engine, the original Red Faction engine, that would make this game so much more enjoyable. Aside from the awful lag that would follow, it would still be amazing. Getting redlined? Go phuk up alll the buildings around you, it would be hilarious. Now I'm not saying I'm a badass, but once I killed a guy in militia gear. We were both wearing it but still.
Lonegnr New Eden Security Services 64	Posted - 2014.02.24 01:22:00 - [23] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: UE3 isn't the issue,PS3 is.This console can't handle the demands of the game,and I'm pretty sure that has less to do with the engine than the console. Until this game gets put on PS4,nothing will change to make the gameplay experience any better. I agree UE3 isn't the problem, not sure why so many people think it is. Unreal 3 in particular ran like butt at release because it was unfinished, but the moment they released their patch that game was smooth as butter on my PS3 and my PC. It's a shame they let the title die at release because of a rushed release. I'm told by programmer friends that the engine tends to make things quite easy for artists, but harder on everyone else, which might explain some of this issue in other games. It's not the engine's fault the developers don't know how to use it. Either way, Unreal Engine 4 is looking amazing, and I can't wait to see what people do with it.
TEXA5 HiTM4N ROGUE SPADES 446	Posted - 2014.02.24 01:55:00 - [24] - Quote Maybe i will release some footage of what my students made. I'll see if the art kids want to copy some of dust's weapons. I kinda wanna see a forge gun fire like a HMG. Everything I say or do has the utmost importance.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2895	Posted - 2014.02.24 02:02:00 - [25] - Quote I'm looking forward to UE4 on the PS4 in a few years.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1667	Posted - 2014.02.24 04:38:00 - [26] - Quote Th3rdSun wrote: UE3 isn't the issue,PS3 is.This console can't handle the demands of the game,and I'm pretty sure that has less to do with the engine than the console. Until this game gets put on PS4,nothing will change to make the gameplay experience any better. Take a look at Metro: Last Light, it's free right now for PS+. They wrote their own engine and it's an impressive piece of work. The controls rock, ofc. But the engine is very modern and very smart and what it squeezes out of the PS3 is amazing - and beautiful. I support SP rollover.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13163	Posted - 2014.02.24 04:43:00 - [27] - Quote Last time we had full blown carbon engine it melted top of the line computers with 1 character and one room. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt 0uter.Heaven 406	Posted - 2014.02.24 04:47:00 - [28] - Quote I don't think they're keen to get a license and dev kit to a different engine and/or console. With this much content we have now, I don't think the PS3 should have a hard time handling it. "can't handle the demands of the game" fckin lol much. #Dud514
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 68	Posted - 2014.02.24 05:34:00 - [29] - Quote While I wouldn't mind a return to carbon, I would wait until most other problems have been fixed, so that they can actually focus on optimizing it for dust, instead of forcing the team to multitask even more. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion 663	Posted - 2014.02.24 05:57:00 - [30] - Quote It would be really, really good if CCP set oneframethreadlag=False in the UT3 engine. Selling dust codes!



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