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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
506
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Posted - 2014.02.24 11:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
And like security status, if you picked to fight UP to advanced gear, you would earn a bounty according to it. Pick militia and obviously the end isk would be meaningless, pick proto and you would of earn big bucks.
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
14
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Posted - 2014.02.24 11:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
No. I was thrown into the fire and learned so should everyone else. I understand the sections that you want to implement. but if a person can only use MLT or basic because that is all they got then they should be put in together automatically.
Not with someone that has 15 million skill points but wants to only run MLT gear....That person will still mop the floor with a person. I can jump in a frontline suit and still do fairly decent just as if i was in proto..
Its not the gear people are using. its the experience they have in the game.
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
507
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zack3000 Smith wrote:No. I was thrown into the fire and learned so should everyone else. I understand the sections that you want to implement. but if a person can only use MLT or basic because that is all they got then they should be put in together automatically.
Not with someone that has 15 million skill points but wants to only run MLT gear....That person will still mop the floor with a person. I can jump in a frontline suit and still do fairly decent just as if i was in proto..
Its not the gear people are using. its the experience they have in the game.
Yes i can see your point, and i do agree to some of it, which brings me to another problem we have, the new player experience. New players get out of Academy too damn soon, im my opinion.
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
14
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:09:00 -
[34] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Zack3000 Smith wrote:No. I was thrown into the fire and learned so should everyone else. I understand the sections that you want to implement. but if a person can only use MLT or basic because that is all they got then they should be put in together automatically.
Not with someone that has 15 million skill points but wants to only run MLT gear....That person will still mop the floor with a person. I can jump in a frontline suit and still do fairly decent just as if i was in proto..
Its not the gear people are using. its the experience they have in the game.
Yes i can see your point, and i do agree to some of it, which brings me to another problem we have, the new player experience. New players get out of Academy too damn soon, im my opinion.
Yes. We do need a longer academy. but at the same time BF4 doesnt even have an academy they throw you in the fire faster than dust 514. this is the first FPS i have played that has an academy. Honestly i think that may help with the new players that quit within the week or month however long it takes for them to quit.
It also give false hope because you can be really good in the academy then get out ..... |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
507
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Well, it really is a different game, with all the economy, gear, rpg stuff. Once they are out of academy they are literally trown into the wolves, unless you have the fortune of joining a corp, that helps.
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
14
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Well, it really is a different game, with all the economy, gear, rpg stuff. Once they are out of academy they are literally trown into the wolves, unless you have the fortune of joining a corp, that helps.
That is why i feel it needs to be match making based on experience in game and the only way to measure that is by War Points or Skill Points.
they could make it 1mil - 5 mil etc. it shouldnt have be exactly the same as yours. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
508
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yes, i understand, something like ranks. Lower ranks wont acess high rank matches but will have low isk payback. High ranks can acess all ranks but will only be interested in doing high rank matches because of the isk involved.
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
15
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Posted - 2014.02.24 12:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Yes, i understand, something like ranks. Lower ranks wont acess high rank matches but will have low isk payback. High ranks can acess all ranks but will only be interested in doing high rank matches because of the isk involved.
YES. but you should not be able to go to a lower tier. Then the new players will see they have to same gear as the opponent but still be discouraged because they just got murked and keep getting murked.
SP, ISK, WP are all a bonus. i play this game cause when i kill someone i want to feel like i accomplished something. but you will still get pub stompers but they would just be in MLT. I can say with confidence because look at some people here in the community that get off on killing lesser opponents and think they are good *cough* tankers *cough* |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
508
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Zack3000 Smith wrote:KatanaPT wrote:Yes, i understand, something like ranks. Lower ranks wont acess high rank matches but will have low isk payback. High ranks can acess all ranks but will only be interested in doing high rank matches because of the isk involved. YES. but you should not be able to go to a lower tier. Then the new players will see they have to same gear as the opponent but still be discouraged because they just got murked and keep getting murked. SP, ISK, WP are all a bonus. i play this game cause when i kill someone i want to feel like i accomplished something. but you will still get pub stompers but they would just be in MLT. I can say with confidence because look at some people here in the community that get off on killing lesser opponents and think they are good *cough* tankers *cough*
I see a problem there, imagine i want to use some kinda gun or suit that isnt proto or like in my original post, run a all militia event for my corp. You would be restricted to the hight tiers with the dangers involved. I still think the paycheck at the end of a match would be a discouragement for a proto user to go into low rank matches.
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
16
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
20 million skill points vs 5 million skill points is still not fair regardless if both have basic gear |
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Zack3000 Smith
Endless Hatred Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
16
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Zack3000 Smith wrote:KatanaPT wrote:Yes, i understand, something like ranks. Lower ranks wont acess high rank matches but will have low isk payback. High ranks can acess all ranks but will only be interested in doing high rank matches because of the isk involved. YES. but you should not be able to go to a lower tier. Then the new players will see they have to same gear as the opponent but still be discouraged because they just got murked and keep getting murked. SP, ISK, WP are all a bonus. i play this game cause when i kill someone i want to feel like i accomplished something. but you will still get pub stompers but they would just be in MLT. I can say with confidence because look at some people here in the community that get off on killing lesser opponents and think they are good *cough* tankers *cough* I see a problem there, imagine i want to use some kinda gun or suit that isnt proto or like in my original post, run a all militia event for my corp. You would be restricted to the hight tiers with the dangers involved. I still think the paycheck at the end of a match would be a discouragement for a proto user to go into low rank matches.
Yeah they wont make as much ISK. but they are in MLT anyway there is no risk. you will still have people in there just to murder people so they can geek and laugh about it |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
508
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Posted - 2014.02.24 13:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zack3000 Smith wrote:KatanaPT wrote:Zack3000 Smith wrote:KatanaPT wrote:Yes, i understand, something like ranks. Lower ranks wont acess high rank matches but will have low isk payback. High ranks can acess all ranks but will only be interested in doing high rank matches because of the isk involved. YES. but you should not be able to go to a lower tier. Then the new players will see they have to same gear as the opponent but still be discouraged because they just got murked and keep getting murked. SP, ISK, WP are all a bonus. i play this game cause when i kill someone i want to feel like i accomplished something. but you will still get pub stompers but they would just be in MLT. I can say with confidence because look at some people here in the community that get off on killing lesser opponents and think they are good *cough* tankers *cough* I see a problem there, imagine i want to use some kinda gun or suit that isnt proto or like in my original post, run a all militia event for my corp. You would be restricted to the hight tiers with the dangers involved. I still think the paycheck at the end of a match would be a discouragement for a proto user to go into low rank matches. Yeah they wont make as much ISK. but they are in MLT anyway there is no risk. you will still have people in there just to murder people so they can geek and laugh about it
Yea, once a bully always a bully. On other note, in the end you will always have the problem of someone never playing and just having passive points and coming back to the game, if that person is restricted to only high tier rank matches then hes doomed.
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JP Acuna
Pendejitos Canis Eliminatus Operatives
74
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
I like the idea of having fair matches, that's what i wish for this game, but the gear level should be restricted how exacltly?
For example, most of the time i use STD suits with some complex modules. Sometimes advanced weapons... How will you be restricted in a match for having proto/complex gear in some fittings that are not "proto" exactly?
Then we would have to wear fittings with modules that fit entirely the tier of the suit, like and ADV suit with only ADV weapons or enhanced mods or lower. It will restrict and destroy the customizable thing of the game.
I would say that the suit is the most important... but then again i've seen some people using Duvolles in militia suits.
Protostomping is the cancer of Dust 514, and the thing i hate the most, probably. But it's part of the experience. The solution to avoid newer or less competitive players getting smashed, redlined and finally deleting this game from their PS3 would be to offer an alternative: some sort of permanent academy where anyone can join as long as you wear your starter fits and militia vehicles. I would join... everyday. If i want to try my cool and proto gear, i just run regular pubs or FW.
Actually, i'm going to make a thread right now in the Feedback and Suggestions forum, sounds like an idea. |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
455
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Great idea....
Let's give full squads of the games best players the ability to join matches where all the most inexperienced players are forced to play. This would help balance tremendously.
Now in all seriousness, I was hoping I'd seen the last "sort matches by gear" thread. Your suggestion would only further imbalance matchmaking! Squads of experienced players will always stomp matches when facing a team of un-squadded blueberries.
In fact, a while back me and some other members of my corp formed an all militia/basic squad and ran pubs, and we ended up rolling through most of the matches easily, only running into trouble when we faced a full enemy squad on the other team.
The best way to balance matchmaking would be to somewhat balance the average SP levels of both team. That way, the teams would be somewhat equally experienced, and overall have the same level of gear available to each team. Matchmaking by SP is a terrible idea. Dont forget that having more SP doesnt actually mean you are a damn good player. You can have millions of SP without even actually playing once.
Firstly, get the idea out of your head that you can ever balance "player skill" of both teams. Not possible.
Second, isn't your post suggesting to force the same level of gear on all players in pub matches? Because you do realize SP is what determines what gear is available to each player/team right?
I don't know how to explain this any clearer, but forcing the same suits on everyone is a very bad idea.
Can you imagine if I were to form a full squad of AE, and we decided to hop into the militia room (where all the newest, most inexperienced, un-squadded newberries are forced to play) You think this would be balanced?
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
508
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Posted - 2014.02.24 17:50:00 -
[45] - Quote
Talos Vagheitan wrote:KatanaPT wrote:Talos Vagheitan wrote:Great idea....
Let's give full squads of the games best players the ability to join matches where all the most inexperienced players are forced to play. This would help balance tremendously.
Now in all seriousness, I was hoping I'd seen the last "sort matches by gear" thread. Your suggestion would only further imbalance matchmaking! Squads of experienced players will always stomp matches when facing a team of un-squadded blueberries.
In fact, a while back me and some other members of my corp formed an all militia/basic squad and ran pubs, and we ended up rolling through most of the matches easily, only running into trouble when we faced a full enemy squad on the other team.
The best way to balance matchmaking would be to somewhat balance the average SP levels of both team. That way, the teams would be somewhat equally experienced, and overall have the same level of gear available to each team. Matchmaking by SP is a terrible idea. Dont forget that having more SP doesnt actually mean you are a damn good player. You can have millions of SP without even actually playing once. Firstly, get the idea out of your head that you can ever balance "player skill" of both teams. Not possible. Second, isn't your post suggesting to force the same level of gear on all players in pub matches? Because you do realize SP is what determines what gear is available to each player/team right? I don't know how to explain this any clearer, but forcing the same suits on everyone is a very bad idea. Can you imagine if I were to form a full squad of AE, and we decided to hop into the militia room (where all the newest, most inexperienced, un-squadded newberries are forced to play) You think this would be balanced?
Nope. I am not suggesting to force someone, but some kind of choice like we do have in EVE. Feel free to post your own suggestions because as of right now what we have is terrible.
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X7 lion
Swamp Tempo Canis Eliminatus Operatives
127
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Posted - 2014.02.25 00:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Match making cant work on dust, the system is contract based & mercs fill the spaces in a contract & the player base is simply to small to justify the divide between players who want to play together.
I am death incarnate, you will not see me or hear me.
You shall only feel the strike of my blade.
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Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
101
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Posted - 2014.02.25 15:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
This was discussed before and I think during the beta as well. The reason CCP may not do this is because it will already split up the already small player base into 4s - 5s for each gamemode and will increase search times dramatically for certain groups of people. Even if you get higher rewards for in higher tiers it needs to be properly balanced to compensate the rise of cost of gear , but the issue that can come up is that it may not be enough of an increase to justify the cost or it'll be too much . Lastly it can make players forced to have multiple of the same fittings if they want to play in different tiers like I need to have adv and proto variants of the same class for example .
Another issue is that some weapons variants are not available at lower tiers so it can become repetitive and force some people to play at higher tiers when they don't want to. It can also cause some players to simply not need to further upgrade their skills because they wouldn't be a big reason too regardless of rewards increase in higher tiers . Making multiple options in this type of way of searching instant action can make searching for desired matches more convoluted then it needs to be.
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
513
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Posted - 2014.02.28 12:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Shameless Bumpage...
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JAMES1257
SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance
6
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Posted - 2014.02.28 14:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
They should base it on lifetime skillpoints
Sver True Blood
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
548
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Posted - 2014.03.10 14:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
JAMES1257 wrote:They should base it on lifetime skillpoints
Nope, if you think about it there is lots of problems with that.
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Avinash Decker
Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic
104
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Posted - 2014.03.11 03:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:JAMES1257 wrote:They should base it on lifetime skillpoints Nope, if you think about it there is lots of problems with that.
Lots of problems with gear too. |
Sam Tektzby
Better Hide R Die
322
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Posted - 2014.03.11 04:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Suggestion:
Pick a game mode, then pick the maximum meta level of gear used in the match. This would avoid the current state of protostomping and it would balance a match. If you want to go proto, you would face players who also picked proto. And viceversa. Obviously rewards would be scaled according to gear. And from Varjac Theobroma Montenegro comes this great idea of establishing something similar to how sec space works on Eve, albeit diferent from what i propose, it would also be something good at matching games by gear.
Example:
Pick Domination----> Pick Any you wanted gear and below. (example Domination--> Basic gear or Domination-->Advanced gear)
Pick Skirmish----> Pick Any gear and below.
Pick Ambush----> Any Gear and below.
We all know that proto gear is hindering the balance of matches, even worse when a squad fields it entirely. I myself used proto in matches and honestly felt bad when we overpowered the enemy team. But matchmaking as it stands doesnt work, and whatever you say or contradict this with the normal arguments of "oh if i can field it, i can use it!" or "HTFU", you know that deep down, if we had balance in gear, the matches would be more intense, fair, exciting and wouldnt almost expell new players or corps who didnt had the luxury of exploiting PC and thus ensuring you had isk for protostomping public matches.
Thank you for your time reading this.
Basicaly i agree with some points here, i like if there is equal chance for everyone. There is few possibilities:
Limit for gear Battles closed by player levels Battles closed for parties
Every of this three have cons aswel, if you will have limited gears (by money/battle/anything) there will be really big contra from these boyos who using that and that is undestandable. About battles with "level" limit, there is way and really big chance to make game more nood friendly and casuals friendly. Another posibility is "closed4party" implementation, thats basicaly just open to lonelywolf, but there is small place for usability.
I dont know im to tired of thinking about anything here in dust, honestly i dont know what can be best. Basic and core mechanique should be make every fight balanced, but how if CCP have problem with that. Their battle, not mein.
Support - Tactician/Support
Deteis - Orator
BHD since MAG
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KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
691
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Posted - 2014.04.16 09:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bumpage!
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logan Feim
Anarchy Revolution
0
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Posted - 2014.04.16 18:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
X7 lion wrote:Match making cant work on dust, the system is contract based & mercs fill the spaces in a contract & the player base is simply to small to justify the divide between players who want to play together.
actually it would work and make sense because the people hiring the mercs would be able to review a record of the mercs as far as their wp, kd/r, and win loss ratio (algorithms to separate them) and wouldn't want to pay to send out mercs that will be nearly guaranteed lose. Although, with the small player base it would have to not be a very strict system and might be best to just be left out. --- REALISTIC AND BALANCED IDEA
As for the particular system proposed by this threat, it is unrealistic and does have some problems shared by others on this thread |
Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
540
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Posted - 2014.04.17 05:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
JAMES1257 wrote:They should base it on lifetime skillpoints
This guy gets it
Who cares what some sniper has to say
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X7 lion
SWAMPERIUM
154
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Posted - 2014.04.19 16:15:00 -
[56] - Quote
logan Feim wrote:X7 lion wrote:Match making cant work on dust, the system is contract based & mercs fill the spaces in a contract & the player base is simply to small to justify the divide between players who want to play together. actually it would work and make sense because the people hiring the mercs would be able to review a record of the mercs as far as their wp, kd/r, and win loss ratio (algorithms to separate them) and wouldn't want to pay to send out mercs that will be nearly guaranteed lose. Although, with the small player base it would have to not be a very strict system and might be best to just be left out. --- REALISTIC AND BALANCED IDEA As for the particular system proposed by this threat, it is unrealistic and does have some problems shared by others on this thread even if that could work, the player base is simply to small
Immortality will not protect you from me. I am death incarnate, you will die.
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
90
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Posted - 2014.04.19 20:27:00 -
[57] - Quote
Dust 514 is a part of the Eve universe it was never supposed to be fair. Gear restriction has no place here. The economy is supposed to bring balance in the game modes. But the economy right now is broken, mainly becouse PC.
Dust is not a tournament, it is not e sports, it is a part of the eve universe. |
KatanaPT
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
699
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
Odigos Ellinas wrote:Dust 514 is a part of the Eve universe it was never supposed to be fair. Gear restriction has no place here. The economy is supposed to bring balance in the game modes. But the economy right now is broken, mainly becouse PC.
Dust is not a tournament, it is not e sports, it is a part of the eve universe.
I think you better read all the replies and posts on this topic, as i said, gear restriction COULD be implemented as Sec space on eve, high sec for safe mil and std matches, med sec for adv and below, and low sec for proto and below. CCP needs to do something about this or the game will die for new players. Everyone can see that. Either those who dont want this to change want the game to die or there is some hidden agend. Ppl will prefer this game to die before removing their protostomping ability, FACT
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Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2014.04.20 14:56:00 -
[59] - Quote
KatanaPT wrote:Odigos Ellinas wrote:Dust 514 is a part of the Eve universe it was never supposed to be fair. Gear restriction has no place here. The economy is supposed to bring balance in the game modes. But the economy right now is broken, mainly becouse PC.
Dust is not a tournament, it is not e sports, it is a part of the eve universe. I think you better read all the replies and posts on this topic, as i said, gear restriction COULD be implemented as Sec space on eve, high sec for safe mil and std matches, med sec for adv and below, and low sec for proto and below. CCP needs to do something about this or the game will die for new players. Everyone can see that. Either those who dont want this to change want the game to die or there is some hidden agend. Ppl will prefer this game to die before removing their protostomping ability, FACT
There is no gear restriction in eve. You can attack anybody with anything in high sec.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/observing-the-burn-jita-player-event/ |
Odigos Ellinas
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
91
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Posted - 2014.04.20 15:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
If you care about new players use your local chat and help them. Where is Dust University?? Did anyone support them?? Make a custom help channel and inv new players get organized. This are the ways of eve universe. And as told above ones the economy is fixed there will be balance in the game modes. |
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