DUST Search - Why are people moaning about scanners?

Venerable Phage wrote:

Let's get this straight the fix for a single piece of equipment at level 1 skill 12k SP

is two proto modules in lows, a level 5 skill and what 1.5M sp? Not sure just doing the maths off memory.

So a lot of CPU, 100x the SP and gimping your armour. Seems a fair trade.

Mind you I play a scout and even my heavy HMG goes forth with an enhanced dampener... You can almost hear them clench when they round the corner in a medium suit.

Anyhow. How is it balanced or even a viable option to require proto equipment to remain hidden at 100m and how does a noob get the SP there?

Scanners are not only out of proportion to their counters they also are vastly superior to their passive scan counter parts.

Level 5 passive range increase on a medium suit will give you a range of 15m vs 24m on a light.
Level 1 scanner will give you a range of 100m

Level 5 passive precision will give a medium what 45? Or is it 49.5db
Level 1 scanner again trumps that.

So you have a basic piece of equipment that is much better at level 1 skill then two skills at level 5. And then that ability gets shared across the squad and nets extra WP. Effectively cost wise it's SP is shared across the squad as it is a shared effect. So for a full squad they could all be level five passive skills x2 or have one active scanner level 1 and the single active scanner is going to cover four times the area more accurately and share it between all of them.

I think the combination of being much better then its passive skill equivalents (its the RE to the poxie proxie or the RR to the AR) with a very difficult counter (multiple forges to perma hardened tanks). Means that it is logical that people will moan about them.

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The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2208	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:41:00 - [1] - Quote All the people who are moaning about scanners i would like to know if you ever used profile dampeners. With 2 complex dampeners i can get underneath proto scanners on a medium frame suit. Hell im even so crazy i shield tank my gallente medium frame suit and put 2 dampeners, a repper and a green biotic on the lowslots. And it does work quite well cause all the muppets with scanners who spin in a circle dont see me coming. I cant tell how many times people walked past me cause they only looked on the radar. Sure you can have much more HP then me but what does it any good if a full squad of hostiles knows your exact location? I literally never got scanned when i run my stealth class. It aswell helps to hide against tanks with their active scanners. Hell even the -10% from the skill itself is helpfull cause standard scanners cant pick you up when you have a mdeium frame or lower. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1715	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:52:00 - [2] - Quote ..... and watch as scouts rip your face off. Anyways, 1: It's fitting, not class 2: nobody in a good fit uses a scanner on a HAV 3: I'll be scanning you down in 1.8 with either my scanner or my passives on my scout, so like it'll matter. 4: you are a flux and 1 shotgun blast (or 2 shotgun blasts) away from dying 5: Your mobility sucks 6: your own scanning powers sucks So what do you accomplish? jack **** 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever! Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6573	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:56:00 - [3] - Quote Cough Wall hack Cough So... You used two slots to hide from a brick tanked permascan proto logi who didn't have to give up one slot. So if you meet in direct battle, he wins. Not only that, but his squad benefits from it too. It completely breaks flanking and other manevours. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6573	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:58:00 - [4] - Quote It's also one hell of a crutch, I saw people whimper, not knowing what to do when their scanner is taken away from them. They had no comprehension of the battle flow, no anticipation of enemy positions, nothing. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1998	Posted - 2014.02.17 07:58:00 - [5] - Quote I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. "But we have been blessed"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6575	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:01:00 - [6] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Try 2/2, judging from the rest of the suits (scouts, heavies), amarr are not losing a slot anymore. But yeah. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Venerable Phage Red Shirts Away Team 19	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:12:00 - [7] - Quote Let's get this straight the fix for a single piece of equipment at level 1 skill 12k SP is two proto modules in lows, a level 5 skill and what 1.5M sp? Not sure just doing the maths off memory. So a lot of CPU, 100x the SP and gimping your armour. Seems a fair trade. Mind you I play a scout and even my heavy HMG goes forth with an enhanced dampener... You can almost hear them clench when they round the corner in a medium suit. Anyhow. How is it balanced or even a viable option to require proto equipment to remain hidden at 100m and how does a noob get the SP there? Scanners are not only out of proportion to their counters they also are vastly superior to their passive scan counter parts. Level 5 passive range increase on a medium suit will give you a range of 15m vs 24m on a light. Level 1 scanner will give you a range of 100m Level 5 passive precision will give a medium what 45? Or is it 49.5db Level 1 scanner again trumps that. So you have a basic piece of equipment that is much better at level 1 skill then two skills at level 5. And then that ability gets shared across the squad and nets extra WP. Effectively cost wise it's SP is shared across the squad as it is a shared effect. So for a full squad they could all be level five passive skills x2 or have one active scanner level 1 and the single active scanner is going to cover four times the area more accurately and share it between all of them. I think the combination of being much better then its passive skill equivalents (its the RE to the poxie proxie or the RR to the AR) with a very difficult counter (multiple forges to perma hardened tanks). Means that it is logical that people will moan about them.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 4602	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:13:00 - [8] - Quote I'm a proto scout with proto PD skills...........**** scanners. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 4 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 175	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:17:00 - [9] - Quote Jeez, godin needs to get laid or something lol. Less QQ more PewPew
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1998	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:20:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Try 2/2, judging from the rest of the suits (scouts, heavies), amarr are not losing a slot anymore. But yeah. Ahhhaaa but my dear I remember a quote from CCP stating the med frames shall have no slot changes coming 1.8. "But we have been blessed"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6577	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:23:00 - [11] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Try 2/2, judging from the rest of the suits (scouts, heavies), amarr are not losing a slot anymore. But yeah. Ahhhaaa but my dear I remember a quote from CCP stating the med frames shall have no slot changes coming 1.8. *For the most part Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
jordy mack Ultramarine Corp 175	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:24:00 - [12] - Quote Venerable Phage wrote: Let's get this straight the fix for a single piece of equipment at level 1 skill 12k SP is two proto modules in lows, a level 5 skill and what 1.5M sp? Not sure just doing the maths off memory. So a lot of CPU, 100x the SP and gimping your armour. Seems a fair trade. Mind you I play a scout and even my heavy HMG goes forth with an enhanced dampener... You can almost hear them clench when they round the corner in a medium suit. Anyhow. How is it balanced or even a viable option to require proto equipment to remain hidden at 100m and how does a noob get the SP there? Scanners are not only out of proportion to their counters they also are vastly superior to their passive scan counter parts. Level 5 passive range increase on a medium suit will give you a range of 15m vs 24m on a light. Level 1 scanner will give you a range of 100m Level 5 passive precision will give a medium what 45? Or is it 49.5db Level 1 scanner again trumps that. So you have a basic piece of equipment that is much better at level 1 skill then two skills at level 5. And then that ability gets shared across the squad and nets extra WP. Effectively cost wise it's SP is shared across the squad as it is a shared effect. So for a full squad they could all be level five passive skills x2 or have one active scanner level 1 and the single active scanner is going to cover four times the area more accurately and share it between all of them. I think the combination of being much better then its passive skill equivalents (its the RE to the poxie proxie or the RR to the AR) with a very difficult counter (multiple forges to perma hardened tanks). Means that it is logical that people will moan about them. Wow I hardly know where to start.... I'll just say that 2 complex damps are the counter to most PROTOTYPE scanners. Not the 12ksp ones. Less QQ more PewPew
Nocturnal Soul Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1998	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:25:00 - [13] - Quote Found it!!! Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Try 2/2, judging from the rest of the suits (scouts, heavies), amarr are not losing a slot anymore. But yeah. Ahhhaaa but my dear I remember a quote from CCP stating the med frames shall have no slot changes coming 1.8. *For the most part "But we have been blessed"
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 6578	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:31:00 - [14] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Try 2/2, judging from the rest of the suits (scouts, heavies), amarr are not losing a slot anymore. But yeah. Ahhhaaa but my dear I remember a quote from CCP stating the med frames shall have no slot changes coming 1.8. *For the most part Found it!!!!!!! And on IRC CCP Logibro added that it's for the most part. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Horizen Kenpachi Kenpachi's Castle 175	Posted - 2014.02.17 08:33:00 - [15] - Quote jordy mack wrote: Jeez, godin needs to get laid or something lol. Or lay off angry birds Hit me with your nerf bat.
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 1115	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:02:00 - [16] - Quote The simple reason is that active scanners are hugely disproprotionate to their counters. As others have already stated, it takes two complex dampeners, leaving you with less HP and reduces your overall effectiveness. Fine, that stops you from being scanned by proto scanners. But, in order to be effective, you would have to start avoiding team- and squadmates. When everyone is being scanned around you, your profile dampening is going to be useless. You'll have to start flanking, use backroutes and attempt to just be sneaky. You're slower, clunkier and overall less mobile than a scout, who can get the same level of profile dampening with much less effort, and roughly the same amount of HP with your extra modules gimping your suit. Then you actually go into an engagement with one of those prototype scanner wielding logis. You get stomped because you don't have as much HP. All your effort was wasted, and it's hard enough to beat proto logis using more effective scout suits. The simple fact of the matter is that proto logis only sacrifice a single equipment slot, no HP and effectiveness at all to practically see everyone on the map at all times, while you use a ton of SP and sacrifice effectiveness just to not be seen by the scanning logi, who stomps you 99% of the time due to the previously mentioned factors. Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published Feb. 10th
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 9644	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:11:00 - [17] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I complain because the Assault Ak.0 will only have 1 low slot and 3 highs for tank. And shield tanking an Amarr suit is a sin. Viziam Scrambler Rifle Core Locus Grenade Complex Shield Extender Complex Shield Extender Complex Damage Modifier Complex Profile Dampener Complex Profile Dampener Complex Armour Repairer Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner I suppose you'll hate me for running this. ZATARA CARRIES US ALL Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution MAG Raven
COVERT SUBTERFUGE PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY 248	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:20:00 - [18] - Quote People don't want a multifaceted battlefield. They don't want situational awareness mechanics, intel and intel denial mechanics or stealth, they just want to run round and pew pew with their gunz...busting their nuts at the thought of having to sacrifice some HP or DPS to accommodate these things. Subterfuge and terrorist GOD in the making Proud Minmatar - Alt of THE GREY CARDINAL Love the Art of War
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:22:00 - [19] - Quote COVERT SUBTERFUGE wrote: People don't want a multifaceted battlefield. They don't want situational awareness mechanics, intel and intel denial mechanics or stealth, they just want to run round and pew pew with their gunz...busting their nuts at the thought of having to sacrifice some HP or DPS to accommodate these things. They dont sacrifice jack... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 827	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:22:00 - [20] - Quote Oh my. If you automatically assume that you'll get stomped because you have less HP on a dampened suit, you obviously haven't used one or have played scout to a significant degree. The real question is, are you a good enough player to kill a proto player when his back is turned, at whatever engagement distance you choose? If the answer is consistently "no", dampening won' t help you.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:23:00 - [21] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Oh my. If you automatically assume that you'll get stomped because you have less HP on a dampened suit, you obviously haven't used one or have played scout to a significant degree. The real question is, are you a good enough player to kill a proto player when his back is turned, at whatever engagement distance you choose? If the answer is consistently "no", dampening won' t help you. When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2211	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:24:00 - [22] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: The simple reason is that active scanners are hugely disproprotionate to their counters. As others have already stated, it takes two complex dampeners, leaving you with less HP and reduces your overall effectiveness. Fine, that stops you from being scanned by proto scanners. But, in order to be effective, you would have to start avoiding team- and squadmates. When everyone is being scanned around you, your profile dampening is going to be useless. You'll have to start flanking, use backroutes and attempt to just be sneaky. You're slower, clunkier and overall less mobile than a scout, who can get the same level of profile dampening with much less effort, and roughly the same amount of HP with your extra modules gimping your suit. Then you actually go into an engagement with one of those prototype scanner wielding logis. You get stomped because you don't have as much HP. All your effort was wasted, and it's hard enough to beat proto logis using more effective scout suits. The simple fact of the matter is that proto logis only sacrifice a single equipment slot, no HP and effectiveness at all to practically see everyone on the map at all times, while you use a ton of SP and sacrifice effectiveness just to not be seen by the scanning logi, who stomps you 99% of the time due to the previously mentioned factors. Wrong i got more shield and armor then my minnie scout alt. And getting stomped? i can pull matches off with 20+ kills with that setup cause nobody expects me. Which means i kill most of my targets before they even have the chance to turn around. Im not one of those scrubs who need 50 bullets to kill 1 guy. When i shot i hit and thats it. My fit is not pulled out of thin air. I tested it alot of times and has become my #1 choice for sneaking behind enemy lines and flanking. And my mobility doesnt gets reduced cause i dont have any plates on the suit plus the complex green biotic doubles my stamina+stamina recovery. I can allmost run from the redline to the closest objective nonstop. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect Negative-Feedback 2211	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:26:00 - [23] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Oh my. If you automatically assume that you'll get stomped because you have less HP on a dampened suit, you obviously haven't used one or have played scout to a significant degree. The real question is, are you a good enough player to kill a proto player when his back is turned, at whatever engagement distance you choose? If the answer is consistently "no", dampening won' t help you. When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous then learn to aim and dont miss 80% of your shots. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:28:00 - [24] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: NK Scout wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Oh my. If you automatically assume that you'll get stomped because you have less HP on a dampened suit, you obviously haven't used one or have played scout to a significant degree. The real question is, are you a good enough player to kill a proto player when his back is turned, at whatever engagement distance you choose? If the answer is consistently "no", dampening won' t help you. When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous then learn to aim and dont miss 80% of your shots. Combat rifle, 100% accuracy, they are usualy at 700 armor 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:30:00 - [25] - Quote NK Scout wrote: The dark cloud wrote: NK Scout wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: Oh my. If you automatically assume that you'll get stomped because you have less HP on a dampened suit, you obviously haven't used one or have played scout to a significant degree. The real question is, are you a good enough player to kill a proto player when his back is turned, at whatever engagement distance you choose? If the answer is consistently "no", dampening won' t help you. When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous then learn to aim and dont miss 80% of your shots. Combat rifle, 100% accuracy, they are usualy at 700 armor If its a heavy, I has no chance becuase he cant move to my direction... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 827	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:32:00 - [26] - Quote NK Scout wrote: When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous You might wanna try hitting the guy you're aiming at, next time. If you can't do that, get closer. If you can't do that even when you're closer, this game probably isn't for you. And by the way, the key to using a dampened suit successfully is also having a way to scan your enemies. So make sure you have a scanner or your squad is scanning. Going un-scanned, yet knowing where your enemies are, is a huge advantage.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:34:00 - [27] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: NK Scout wrote: [quote=Sana Rayya] When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous You might wanna try hitting the guy you're aiming at, next time. If you can't do that, get closer. If you can't do that even when you're closer, this game probably isn't for you. And by the way, the key to using a dampened suit successfully is also having a way to scan your enemies. So make sure you have a scanner or your squad is scanning. Going un-scanned, yet knowing where your enemies are, is a huge advantage. When I scan sometimes my scan results disappear, but some protos cant be killed cuz they turn around and kolaleta rr you or boundles cr you....logi a1 series, 3 dampeners, 2 complex extenders, and a energiser with a std cr 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:37:00 - [28] - Quote NK Scout wrote: Sana Rayya wrote: NK Scout wrote: [quote=Sana Rayya] When you unload a full mag and and they turn aroundmand insta kill you it gets rediculous You might wanna try hitting the guy you're aiming at, next time. If you can't do that, get closer. If you can't do that even when you're closer, this game probably isn't for you. And by the way, the key to using a dampened suit successfully is also having a way to scan your enemies. So make sure you have a scanner or your squad is scanning. Going un-scanned, yet knowing where your enemies are, is a huge advantage. When I scan sometimes my scan results disappear, but some protos cant be killed cuz they turn around and kolaleta rr you or boundles cr you....logi a1 series, 3 dampeners, 2 complex extenders, and a energiser with a std cr Forgot to mention, after I scanned nyain san proto scout, I killed him terminated him then game ended 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 827	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:39:00 - [29] - Quote If you can't kill them when you have the drop on them, then you can't kill them when you have extra HP and they know you're coming. I'd say that's a problem of player skill, not of the HP disadvantage of dampening itself.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 412	Posted - 2014.02.17 09:39:00 - [30] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: If you can't kill them when you have the drop on them, then you can't kill them when you have extra HP and they know you're coming. I'd say that's a problem of player skill, not of the HP disadvantage of dampening itself. Let me guess, your a proto stomper...... 2 exiles assault rifles, Skinweave caldari frame, Staff recruiter mlt frame, Templar set Caldari Master Race

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