the problem is half the slots are not dedicated to armor reppersGǪthere is nobody who does that except a select few, no offense to you. I think you read my idea before, but i am going to post it here again about a module that increases total armor repair rate that goes in the high slot, allowing gallants who have high base armor rep rate to stack plates in the lows, and still have have repair. It just makes sense

Do you even armor tank bro?

The only suits that don't do that are logibro suits, which are extremely overpowered and heavily swayed towards armor.
Assaults cannot do that, they're simply fail fits.

Do you even armor tank bro?

The only suits that don't do that are logibro suits, which are extremely overpowered and heavily swayed towards armor.
Assaults cannot do that, they're simply fail fits.

The main issue here is speed IMO, shields are just too slow. On my armor tanked suits, l can go to cover and regain 40/70/140 hp back while still be in the fight. With a 515 shield cal logi it takes about 35 seconds of complete isolation to get that hp back.

Yes that requires me to use a hive or indeed have a buddy with a rep tool, but still, look at the normal battlefield and this is the way of it. Who goes around with 500 armor and rely solely on passive reps?

Its a definitive sign of imbalance when most competitive players in Cal logi suits stacks 450 armor on it and a triage hive...

Make shileds regenerate a little faster and we're good to go. And please don't nerf basic plates, they are the most important asset for the current shield tanked suits....

Was armor UP to begin with? If armor tankers actually used triage hives, rep tools and you know, teamwork, back in the days like they do now, would a speed reduction reduction have been enough?

my armor supplies an infinite amount of hp, and my hives supply it faster than your shields do. there really is no supportable argument that could be conceived by a sane man about why shields should not get a buff at STD and ADV at the very least, and the firing requirement reduction brings it more in line with armor. by raising PRO shield extenders, I'm simply bringing their hp to slightly above half of armor plates instead of below

The answer here, Cat, is "no, he does not run armor fits."

it doesn't do it by itself. It takes a slot or a logi.

God no. More PG is not the problem.

Just increase the speed penalty for armour plates.

Seriously, armour based(non-Logi) suits only use 2 plates MAX.

we use the other 1-2 slots for reps.

Oh, and things like PG, CPU, and ISK are very, very, very, VERY minor balancing points. They have nothing to do with moment to moment gameplay, so they should not be considered when balancing armor and shields for moment to moment gameplay.

The reasons armor>Shields I think

1. The TTK is very high. Shields dont have enough EHP or DPS
2. the RR does to much damage over a very long range.
3. Shields have to give up EHP for damage mods.
4. Armor can stack on EHP with Damage mods.
5. Armor doesnt have anything else for high slots so no other reasons to use something besides damage mods
6. The RR reminds me of the AR with Sharpshooter 5.

Personally changing the Armor or Shield CPU and PG wont fix anything. If damage mods were changed around from the 3/5/10
to 2/4/6 same CPU & PG for damage mods. Yes this would effect everyone that loves them but the biggest hit would be armor builds.

I really dont think buffing anymore class's will do any good. Changes would be better. Once CCP buff's something it becomes OP. If Armor's DPS is hurt people might want to go back to being shields.

1. Why is it not a problem? what about commandos and scout suits that want to run extenders for the extra speed that they can get by using kincats? Not offensively, or challenging your viewpoint, but i would like to see one logical reason why pg on extenders is not a problem

2. Fix for speed penalty on armor plates=have the penalty be a constant 3-4% across all tiers

3. This is simply not true. Most people who know what they are doing use all plates, maybe 1x reactive, and a repper hive.

4. The problem with reps is that they simply aren't very used to boost regen. A better fix would be to put a remote repair module in the high slots that increases repair rate by a certain percentage, allowing gallente (who have the highest base repair rate) to become regenerative demons, and increasing the utility of repair modules

No.
Keep militia at 85, that was one of the points of why armor sucks back before armor was buffed.

PG is the problem most armour users have. I have engineering maxed and most PG reduction skills maxed and I still struggle to fit my Proto Gallente assault.

Armour plates should be running on a 3/4/5. I say keep the complex plates speed penalty where is it because it is the only plate that is balanced right now.

While I can't speak for everyone, I know myself and the few GalAssaults use at least 2 reps. Usually 1complex and a enhanced and 2 enhanced plates. Fitting anything other then a compact hive becomes a problem with GalAssaults. Again, I can't speak for everyone and I know most AmarrAssaults run 3 enhanced plates and completely forgo reps in favor of rep hives(they have more CPU/PG then other assaults)

I think reps are fine in the low slots, I'd rather see reactive plates moved to the high slot honestly. Hopefully dmg mods are reduced or simply removed so they stop being the best high slot mod. As for increasing rep mods, maybe increase the healing factor by one on each mod and incense the skill by 1 percent per level.

Edit:also, I think shield extenders should give a slightly hp output and require slight less CPU/PG to bring them in line. Maybe 8-10hp across the board and lowering the CPU by 2/4/8 and PG by 1/3/5

here is the problem I see w/ shield vs armor. Since the introduction of the game, armor has received 2 addition types, along w/ a penalty reduction to the standard plates. Whereas shield have only seen a penalty invoked to them.

Prior to the current build of 1.6 w/ logi and thusly 1.7; is has shown that armor tanker outweighs shield tanking in every situation (more or less).

One of the biggest aids to this, is that any damage to shields is don't with "ease" even through natural damage reduction, compared to armor seemingly being harder to rip through. If you look at the use of an SMG since the game has been around; the smg rips through shields just as easily as any other weapon, even though it has a 20% reduction to shield; but it is almost nullified w/ of the rof it puts out damage.

Yes, shields do have a natural regen, that is about the only benefit they have compared to armor (aside from movement penalty, but even that is nullified with new armor plates). As w/ amount of people armor tanking, lots of logi's run repps, and can run repping hives which can "almost" nullify damage in 1v1 battles

In my opinion, a possibly "fix" would be 2 things occurring:

1). Add a 2nd extender type with the current penalty, but increase their hp buffer to be more inline with original armor plates. By doing that, you can keep the current extenders as is (though prob change still to 33-44-66 respectively, which would be in line w/ the new non penalty armor plates)

ex: 60-80-100 , w/ the penalty of current extenders.

2). Alter the CPU/PG costs of plates. Simply put can probably keep cpu as is, but pg should be lowered around the horn on extenders, especially at proto level

So do you believe extenders need a lower CPU and PG cost, and better scaling?

not CPU, but to be incline w/ how EvE works, slightly lower PG yes (mean like 2pg less at proto). And yes, I think scalling is needed for shield b/c of how easy shield melt compared to armor. Along with that, it may help "balance" out shields to survive damage-mod armor tankers (as is, you can tank and dps), so this will allow shield tanker to semi counter that; and if shield want to use a damage mod; it is more of a health penalty then (so there is a cost-benefit to their use then, along w/ the current penalty shield extenders have)

Do you agree with the numbers that i put in my OP?

44 hp at STd, 58 at ADV, and 72 at PRO, with a 4 pg reduction at PRO?

I would say no. Reason for it, as the increase is to minimal to make a difference. It is only a 10% increase, so after the extenders passive bonus, there is still only a increase of 7 shields. If you look at a Caldari assault for ex: that means all you get is an extra 28hp, which is to minimal to make a difference. That is .5-1 bullet difference.

One thing I'd say would need to be taken into account is which armor plates most people use. As is, even with your proposed changes, a proto armor plate still equal 2x of shield. So if 2 people run respective assault suits; as shield tanker would have to use all 4 high slots to equate the hp use of just 2 low slots (for the 130 plates) for the armor tanker (and cant say one has penalty, b/c both do now). Pending on what else the armor tanker has, he can fit a rep, and possibly a cpu upgrade or something. Combine that with a combo hive (both armor and ammo), he can still shield tank or damage mod his high slots. Where as, a shield tanker would HAVE to dedicate at least one slot to a CPU upgrade (as you have to in order to fit), and one slot would be a regulator. At that point you leave 1 low slot for a rep to help in case you hit armor; or some other module, but once your shield are down you need to wait for them to return as you wouldn't be able to rep any armor damage unless have a logi or repping hive (which u wouldn't most likely being a shield tanker)

In that type of scenario, which im assuming most armor tanker use anyway; you are looking at roughly the same amount of ehp b/t the suits; yet the armor tanker can buffer w/ extra shield or get more damage w/ damage mods, whereas the shield tanker cannot. Once you melt his shield (which you do easily no matter the weapon, aside from MD maybe), he would need to run or be more careful where an armor tanker has more flexibility in what they can do.

So i generated these numbers by using 72 shield as my baseline for prototype, and then scaling STD and ADV shields in the same way as STD and ADV plates are scaled.

What do you think about the fitting requirements at least?

id say your fitting was pretty spot on; the pg reduction is what will really help out extenders use (along with a high buffer extender in my opinion)

Thanks!

np at all. Like said, this is important to get right. As I believe w/ the pg reduction and a extender increase, it will being that more into balance with the value of armor

np at all. Like said, this is important to get right. As I believe w/ the pg reduction and a extender increase, it will being that more into balance with the value of armor

Agreed, I'm glad this community has people as clearheaded as you

complex extenders need a slight cpu reduction, like by 4.

lol, thanks; prob helped I haven't played or been around much. Hell if I had, id of been crazy enough to try for CPM1

* or well, still thinking of if able ... hmmm