Increasing STD and ADV shields HP = Good

Increasing PRO shields HP = BAD


PRO shields are balanced with PRO armor, STD and ADV is where the problem lies.

Also decrease the shield penalty down to armor penalty levels. 7% for a complex shield? Crazy...

The biggest difference is the fact that "teamwork" is treated as a balancing factor between shields and armor.

Armor gets pathetically low reps, and if you want to increase it by any respectable amount you need to sacrifice TONS of armor health to achieve a very small amount of health regeneration.
y.

True.But there are Armor Repping Tools and Nanohives.
Equipments that COVER these weakness.

Shields dont have anything to cover their weakness ( having less HP ) and instead get 1HKO'd by Flux grenades.

<..<

Checkmate has a point that armor can easily mitigate its only disadvantages through the use of equipment, whereas shields cannot, and have less health, and are vulnerable to far more potent weapons than armor.

Also, you forgot the scrambler rifle being able to one-shot any shield value in the game with max proficiency. Or a breach scram pistol with a single headshot (regular if proficiency is maxed).

Not only Shield has an EFFECTIVE weapon that deals BONUS damage to it (SCR RIFLE 120%), but there are also FLUX grenades that 1HKO shields.

The PG reduction on shields is a MUST.
No discussion here.

But i like the OP's ideas on the HP buff to shields!
If not....=


Something that COULD be done to BALANCE SHIELDS is a nanohive that besides giving ammo, stacks '' Hardener points'' on the suit, giving certain DAMAGE RESISTANCE for shields.

So Armor has lots more HP can cover their HP REPAIR weakness with Repair NAnohives or a friendly Rep Tool.
Shields have LESS HP but could last LONGER with some type of HARDENER tech.

After all, nanos ARE CALDARI equipment.......

Essentially what you have rediscovered here is something that has long been known in EVE:

For PvP (which is all we have, of course) gank and buffer tank trumps regeneration every time. The average engagement is too short for regeneration to have as much effect as higher initial EHP. The circumstances are slightly different here than in EVE, as it is impossible to take cover in EVE, but some of the same principals apply. Shields need to have the option of fitting for EHP as well, at the expense of some of the regen. This, I believe, was the goal of introducing the penalty on shield extenders, but they forgot that in order for this penalty to be justified, the shield user needs a lot more EHP.

The other side of this issue is that there should be four distinct tanking options, each of which has advantages in certain circumstances:

High EHP armor with no or very limited innate repair (which is what is used now, the repair is from equipment or teammates, not built into the suit). Balanced by fairly stiff speed penalties.

Low EHP armor with relatively high repair. Balanced by the aforementioned low EHP, but does not have speed penalties built in.

High EHP shield with relatively low regen. Balanced by signature penalties. This is how shield buffer fits are balanced in EVE. They are faster to target. The closest equivalent we have to this in Dust is to make them easier to detect. All that shielding puts out a lot of electronic noise.

Low EHP shield with fast regen. At the far end of the scale, the time to begin regen should be able to be brought low enough that the suit begins regeneration almost as soon as it is not actively taking fire. This suit cannot stand and fight, but is well suited to hit and run.

Does it apply to regular delay too? It feels like it.

True.But there are Armor Repping Tools and Nanohives.
Equipments that COVER these weakness.

Shields dont have anything to cover their weakness ( having less HP ) and instead get 1HKO'd by Flux grenades.

<..<

I don't believe it does. It is a pretty damn steep penalty for the fitting cost/eHP gain. I don't agree with the assertion made by Cat Merc. PRO shields aren't balanced with PRO armor because of two things. Any armor tank can fit damage mods for one thing and the shield regen delay penalty on shields isn't in step with the speed penalty on armor.

Armor gets 135 at PRO but shields only get 66. I get that shields regen but armor can be repaired and often is (Logis like those triage points). Adding any sort of regen penalty to shield extenders (especially one that increases with meta level) makes that 66 HP gain worse and worse.

What I don't get...this game is closely affiliated with Eve, right? Shield extenders have a dramatic effect on a ships signature...so why don't shield extenders have an equally dramatic effect on signature radius instead of shield depleted regen delay?

Armor has a penalty on speed. That inherently makes the user more vulnerable. The benefit for wearing shields is greater speed and flexibility, right? So why not make them glowing beacons of RED DOT on the radar while they run circles around armor tanked people? That would be a much more parallel penalty in my eyes to the armor movement penalty AND would jive with the effects of shield extenders in Eve.

So why not make them glowing beacons of RED DOT on the radar while they run circles around armor tanked people?

Because that would make Caldari and Minmatar scouts suck.
EDIT: HYDERPOO

Armor plates are supposed to 2x because as a rule of thumb, half your slots are dedicated to armor repairers.
In the end most armor suits don't have nearly as much HP as people think, it's in the 500~ area.

This is true, but armor tankers still have a high regen shield buffer on top of their primary armor tank, while shield tankers have to rely on a non regenerative armor buffer UNDER their primary shield tank.

Obviously, this gives armor tankers a significant advantage in this respect solely from the mechanics of shields vs. armor. Armor tankers have a reliable buffer on top of their primary tank, preventing an initial burst of damage from doing significant damage and allowing their armor more time to regenerate. Shield tankers have to deal with the fact that their primary line of defense is their FIRST line of defense, meaning every bit of damage taken is significant to their primary HP.

I've run shield tanked Minmatar Assaults and armor tanked Gallente Scouts, and I can honestly say that 6hp/s armor repair with a k-17/D NH on my scout is much more efficient than the 22.5hp/s shield regen with 1hp/s armor rep on my assault. They both have about the same total eHP, but my scout has significantly more long term survivability, despite having presumably worse repair.

The difference is the 87-160 shield buffer on the Gallente scout, as the first 87-160 damage of every encounter is essentially negated, meaning I take less damage to my armor. Once the damage is taken, I can continue to fight with a bit more caution, as I know that I can always take some damage without sacrificing armor. In the event that I take major damage, I can fall back, drop a hive, and possibly get help from a logi. The shield-based assault, on the other hand, is forced to retreat after taking any significant damage and stay under cover until fully healed. In the event that I have my shields completely reduced, I am guaranteed to have to hide for at least 18 seconds until I have enough shields to fight again. There is no chance of continuing to fight while waiting, as any damage taken will prolong the wait and possibly result in having to start completely over.

Did you read my entire post? I'm pretty sure I cover that in the next segment.

...
Because that would make Caldari and Minmatar scouts suck.
EDIT: HYDERPOO

exactly

My shields supply an infinite amount of hp. I don't have to fit anything to receive this regen. I take cover they come back. If I wanted a different play style I would skill into armor. Armor is reliable and slow. Repairing it takes some effort. I can't just pop in and out of cover. I have to go lick my wounds or rely on something else. I see nothing wrong with having choices.

No to shield extender buff. You would just use the spare PG to put armor plates on and bricktank. What you should do is either use biotics or profile dampaners on your lowslots. They do work and because every muppet is running with a actve scanner around they wouldnt even notice you if you would stand 20m infront of them.

No to shield extender buff. You would just use the spare PG to put armor plates on and bricktank. What you should do is either use biotics or profile dampaners on your lowslots. They do work and because every muppet is running with a actve scanner around they wouldnt even notice you if you would stand 20m infront of them.

The only real problems are fitting requirements and hp versus level. Right now, armor plates only have to be at ADV and are the best HP bonuser in the game, all things considered. Plates allow for easily stacked damage mods in the highs, as they should (plates=high pg low cpu, damage mods=high cpu low pg). However, shield extenders are only effective at prototype level, as STD and ADV give only 1/3 and 1/2 of the hp respectively. In addition, the fitting requirements on shield extenders are so very high that they are difficult to run much of anything past basic gear on. Extenders are supposed to allow for greater mobility so that they can leverage the suits superior shield regeneration, and thus should be coupled with Pg intensive biotic modules in the low slots. However, the fitting costs on extenders in the Pg department do not allow for this, unlike how armor's low cpu usage allows for damage mod usage. A great easy number tweaking would fix all of the aforementioned problems.

EDITS: change speed penalty to 3/4/5 for armor plates as well so that proto plates are more attractive for use
STD: (85 armor, 3 PG, 10 CPU) vs (44 shields, 2 PG, 15 CPU)
ADV: (110 armor, 6 PG, 22 CPU) vs (58 shields, 4 PG, 30 CPU)
PRO: (135 armor, 12 PG, 34 CPU) vs (72 shields, 7 PG, 54 CPU)

Bump

2 basic dampeners dont work, you need 3
after i scanned a nyan san scout mk.0 in my stealth logi i killed him and terminated him

I didn't know nyan san ran minmitar scoutsGǪ.doesnt it require too much skill?

They brick tanked it, i scanned it with a basic scanner