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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9117
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is one thing to want a respec because you're just tired of the stuff you skilled into.
It is another thing to want a respec for new content since racial variants (especially for dropsuits) should have been there on release, but instead we were forced to spec into things that otherwise would not be our first choice to stay competitive because we weren't provided with all the options. This I think makes a respec completely justified, but its not the biggest reason.
Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying a million dollar sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into a tractor; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required.
I thought the idea that these big changes warranted a respec would be clear and obvious to CCP, but CPM member Hans Jagerblitzen has informed me that its not guaranteed yet. This should be a guaranteed thing, not a maybe.
For those worried about the favorite-of-the-month chasers, the respecs do not create the the problems, its poor balancing that leads to FoTMs; they will just get nerfed and re-balanced anyway.
The fundamental issue is our choices not being invalidated. Many have claimed to oppose respecs because they say they want our choices to have meaning and consequence, but our choices need to be informed decisions to be meaningful; an uninformed choice is as meaningful as a coin toss. If the information (slots, stats, bonuses) about the things we chose changes, then the choice is no longer informed and meaningful since the information we made our choices on is no longer true.
So yeah, respec for 1.8 please.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4614
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 to a Respec.
Also, this: ''Many have claimed to oppose respecs because they say they want our choices to have meaning and consequence, but our choices need to be informed decisions to be meaningful; an uninformed choice is as meaningful as a coin toss''
Support Amarr scout bonus change! : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1813029#post1813029
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
657
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 I've been yelling for a gallente heavy suit that isn't there. Where is my super suit!
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
1686
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly, 1.8 deserves a respec. It really does.I don't understand why some people STILL doesn't want it,or see why it is needed.
'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
6712
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seems most of this sample space of a community agree that an infantry respec is obvious and deserved.
And Aero said unto his children, "LET THERE BE A REGISTRY"
CPM Info and Q&A -Status: Open
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Debacle Nano
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
671
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
If we do get a respec, I am not touching my skill points till I know what's good.
Closed beta anyone?
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
7061
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Debacle Nano wrote:If we do get a respec, I am not touching my skill points till I know what's good.
That's how it will be. I will be honestly too scared to spend my SP until I know what's set in stone.
"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
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Adelia Lafayette
Science For Death
658
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'll spend it on something gallente. Probably won't wait long either. Also want to wear my quafe scout suit. lame the awesomest paint job requires 2.6mil sp to wear. Evil cpp is Evil
Assault dropship gets blown up....
(Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ "Kitten this I'm out"...
..."I'm back"
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9120
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Debacle Nano wrote:If we do get a respec, I am not touching my skill points till I know what's good. That's how it will be. I will be honestly too scared to spend my SP until I know what's set in stone. I'm glad I have a bunch of alts.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Debacle Nano
BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance
673
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:True Adamance wrote:Debacle Nano wrote:If we do get a respec, I am not touching my skill points till I know what's good. That's how it will be. I will be honestly too scared to spend my SP until I know what's set in stone. I'm glad I have a bunch of alts.
That's not my alt.
Closed beta anyone?
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1012
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would let CCP bear my child if we get a respec for Infantry. |
Ayures II
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
487
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
I DESERVE a pony. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9122
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:I DESERVE a pony. Will the pony fix an issue about your choices that were supposed to be meaningful getting invalidated by CCP's changes?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Awry Barux
New Eden Blades Of The Azure Zero-Day
554
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
As always, no one says it better than Kagehoshi. +1
An example of the changes invalidating previous decisions: I generally run Min Logi, uplinks, hives, and a scanner. No rep tool because I'm not that kind of logi. I picked Min Logi for the hacking bonus (free complex codebreaker), which is being changed to a bonus to something that I have never used in the past and will never use in the future. That warrants a respec. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9127
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:As always, no one says it better than Kagehoshi. +1
An example of the changes invalidating previous decisions: I generally run Min Logi, uplinks, hives, and a scanner. No rep tool because I'm not that kind of logi. I picked Min Logi for the hacking bonus (free complex codebreaker), which is being changed to a bonus to something that I have never used in the past and will never use in the future. That warrants a respec. Completely agree.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
10760
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
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Aisha Ctarl
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
3330
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP is completely changing the stats of the suits AFTER we have invested our points into them...if they do not grant an infantry REFUND I can assure you the backlash from the community will have them tossing and turning in their beds at night.
I'm a narcissist, LIKE MY POSTS =^,.,^=
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1030
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
401
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:It is one thing to want a respec because you're just tired of the stuff you skilled into.
It is another thing to want a respec for new content since racial variants (especially for dropsuits) should have been there on release, but instead we were forced to spec into things that otherwise would not be our first choice to stay competitive because we weren't provided with all the options. This I think makes a respec completely justified, but its not the biggest reason.
Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying a million dollar sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into a tractor; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required.
I thought the idea that these big changes warranted a respec would be clear and obvious to CCP, but CPM member Hans Jagerblitzen has informed me that its not guaranteed yet. This should be a guaranteed thing, not a maybe.
For those worried about the favorite-of-the-month chasers, the respecs do not create the the problems, its poor balancing that leads to FoTMs; they will just get nerfed and re-balanced anyway.
The fundamental issue is our choices not being invalidated. Many have claimed to oppose respecs because they say they want our choices to have meaning and consequence, but our choices need to be informed decisions to be meaningful; an uninformed choice is as meaningful as a coin toss. If the information (slots, stats, bonuses) about the things we chose changes, then the choice is no longer informed and meaningful since the information we made our choices on is no longer true.
So yeah, respec for 1.8 please.
qtf, coundnt of said better myself. Also words of wisdom, even since our MAG days |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
328
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Refund of dropsuit skill tree not a respec. |
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Nocturnal Soul
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
1978
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
I deserve a respec because I put up with this games bs since chrom.
"But we have been blessed"
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9128
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Kaughst
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
197
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think by far the biggest reason to do so is for heavies who were stuck in Amarr to reposition themselves into the racial playstyle they wanted to be in for a while. While it is not as drastic as the vehicle changes I hope that a respec will put a final nail in the coffin in ever wanting it again...
But be aware role bonuses and stat changes are going to be happening for a while in dust as they have in Eve.
"That is not how you say my name."
"How do you say your name?"
"I don't know but that is not how you say it."
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1031
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff. I don't even have Templar gear. I think I need it more. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9128
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff. I don't even have Templar gear. I think I need it more. You're probably not even poor.
And to DUST Fiend, I don't inend it to be mean, but if you do quit, there's no reason for the ISK to go to waste.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Joel II X
Dah Gods O Bacon
1035
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff. I don't even have Templar gear. I think I need it more. You're probably not even poor. And to DUST Fiend, I don't inend it to be mean, but if you do quit, there's no reason for the ISK to go to waste. 20mill. I gave 10mill to corp mates because they needed it
Also, I agree. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9129
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Posted - 2014.02.14 05:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'm hoping to hear a decision from CCP
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Midas Fool
Black Phoenix Mercenaries Legacy Rising
376
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Posted - 2014.02.14 07:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying a million dollar sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into a tractor; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required.
I really wanted to criticize this analogy because it shows the exaggerating attitude that detracts the validity of many people's arguments. When you apply too much value to your argument then your dissenters know it's not true. A more accurate example would be: you go out and buy a cowboy hat because you are a cowboy; you wake up the next morning and it has been replaced with a beret. It is not a "downgrade" because it is still functionally a hat, the value that has been lost is not monetary or physical, but you are dissatisfied because it is not what you specifically wanted. You chose the cowboy hat because you wanted to exude the meaning that comes with it, and not the meaning that comes with a beret. You are implying that they took your hat and gave you a sock, and that's just not true.
If you want to be taken seriously don't exaggerate your personal value, and don't be surprised if people don't sympathize with it. As a dust-related example, I am sorry to the MinLogi speed hackers that aren't being sympathized with. The fact of the matter is that those who do not use your suit don't attach the value that you do to it. Don't get up in arms if people disagree that it is now "useless". Also on that note bonuses can only do so much. You can still get pretty close to what you had if get a suit that has 5 low-slots. And you can still do what you did before...you don't have to use your suit bonus...
Anyway...
I am normally against the idea of a respec but I agree with you on this to the point where I am pretty sure it would be reasonable to expect and prepare for one coming. Some people invested time, effort, SP, and sometimes real-world money in to what kind of merc they are for specific reasons, more than likely suit bonuses. If they are going to change then their work will have meant nothing, and that is not fair.
I'm going back into CalAssault regardless of bonus since I use my Raven/Dragonfly BPOs extensively.
+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...+25 Kill Assist...NO HOW WHY
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Chesyre Armundsen
Thanes Of Dust
423
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Posted - 2014.02.14 07:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:I DESERVE a pony.
Your Pony is getting nerfed in 1.9
Mihi gravato Deus - "Let God lay the burden on me!"
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1663
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Posted - 2014.02.14 08:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
A Dropsuit Command respec will not suffice in this case. There has to be a full infantry respec.
If you for example want to switch from the Amarr Sentinel to Caldari Sentinel you no longer have any use for your armor skills, but will need shield skills instead. Thus there has to be a respec for Dropsuit Upgrades as well.
If you want to switch from Gallente Assault to Minmatar Assault and want to take full advantage of the suit bonus you no longer have any use of the Assault Rifle you skilled into, but will need the Combat Rifle instead. Thus there has to be a respec for Weaponry as well.
I can go on with reasons for a full infantry respec. The point is just that a Dropsuit Command respec won't be enough as different suits require entirely different SP investments.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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