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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9117
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is one thing to want a respec because you're just tired of the stuff you skilled into.
It is another thing to want a respec for new content since racial variants (especially for dropsuits) should have been there on release, but instead we were forced to spec into things that otherwise would not be our first choice to stay competitive because we weren't provided with all the options. This I think makes a respec completely justified, but its not the biggest reason.
Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying a million dollar sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into a tractor; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required.
I thought the idea that these big changes warranted a respec would be clear and obvious to CCP, but CPM member Hans Jagerblitzen has informed me that its not guaranteed yet. This should be a guaranteed thing, not a maybe.
For those worried about the favorite-of-the-month chasers, the respecs do not create the the problems, its poor balancing that leads to FoTMs; they will just get nerfed and re-balanced anyway.
The fundamental issue is our choices not being invalidated. Many have claimed to oppose respecs because they say they want our choices to have meaning and consequence, but our choices need to be informed decisions to be meaningful; an uninformed choice is as meaningful as a coin toss. If the information (slots, stats, bonuses) about the things we chose changes, then the choice is no longer informed and meaningful since the information we made our choices on is no longer true.
So yeah, respec for 1.8 please.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9120
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Debacle Nano wrote:If we do get a respec, I am not touching my skill points till I know what's good. That's how it will be. I will be honestly too scared to spend my SP until I know what's set in stone. I'm glad I have a bunch of alts.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9122
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Posted - 2014.02.14 03:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ayures II wrote:I DESERVE a pony. Will the pony fix an issue about your choices that were supposed to be meaningful getting invalidated by CCP's changes?
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9127
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:As always, no one says it better than Kagehoshi. +1
An example of the changes invalidating previous decisions: I generally run Min Logi, uplinks, hives, and a scanner. No rep tool because I'm not that kind of logi. I picked Min Logi for the hacking bonus (free complex codebreaker), which is being changed to a bonus to something that I have never used in the past and will never use in the future. That warrants a respec. Completely agree.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9128
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9128
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Posted - 2014.02.14 04:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:1.8 respec decides if I stay or if I go.
No respec means ESO for me lol Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff. I don't even have Templar gear. I think I need it more. You're probably not even poor.
And to DUST Fiend, I don't inend it to be mean, but if you do quit, there's no reason for the ISK to go to waste.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9129
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Posted - 2014.02.14 05:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm hoping to hear a decision from CCP
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9139
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Posted - 2014.02.14 14:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Midas Fool wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Its a completely different thing when CCP is changing the stats, bonuses, and slot layouts of suits. Such big fundamental things completely invalidates our choices, like buying a million dollar sports car, and then the manufacturers break into your garage, and change the car into a tractor; in such a case, you would feel that a refund for that car is something you are entitled to, likewise I feel that the 1.8 changes mean that infantry deserve in an SP refund. This is the biggest reason why a respec is absolutely required. I really wanted to criticize this analogy because it shows the exaggerating attitude that detracts the validity of many people's arguments. When you apply too much value to your argument then your dissenters know it's not true. A more accurate example would be: you go out and buy a cowboy hat because you are a cowboy; you wake up the next morning and it has been replaced with a beret. It is not a "downgrade" because it is still functionally a hat, the value that has been lost is not monetary or physical, but you are dissatisfied because it is not what you specifically wanted. You chose the cowboy hat because you wanted to exude the meaning that comes with it, and not the meaning that comes with a beret. You are implying that they took your hat and gave you a sock, and that's just not true. If you want to be taken seriously don't exaggerate your personal value, and don't be surprised if people don't sympathize with it. As a dust-related example, I am sorry to the MinLogi speed hackers that aren't being sympathized with. The fact of the matter is that those who do not use your suit don't attach the value that you do to it. Don't get up in arms if people disagree that it is now "useless". Also on that note bonuses can only do so much. You can still get pretty close to what you had if get a suit that has 5 low-slots. And you can still do what you did before...you don't have to use your suit bonus... Anyway... I am normally against the idea of a respec but I agree with you on this to the point where I am pretty sure it would be reasonable to expect and prepare for one coming. Some people invested time, effort, SP, and sometimes real-world money in to what kind of merc they are for specific reasons, more than likely suit bonuses. If they are going to change then their work will have meant nothing, and that is not fair. I'm going back into CalAssault regardless of bonus since I use my Raven/Dragonfly BPOs extensively. A tractor is not necessarily a downgrade, it just performs a different purpose. If you are playing the role of a farmer, than a great new tractor is something you would want. If you bought he sports car for he purpose of racing though, you're screwed, much like if you speced on Minmatar logi for the purpose of hacking, you're screwed.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9144
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Posted - 2014.02.14 16:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:A Dropsuit Command respec will not suffice in this case. There has to be a full infantry respec.
If you for example want to switch from the Amarr Sentinel to Caldari Sentinel you no longer have any use for your armor skills, but will need shield skills instead. Thus there has to be a respec for Dropsuit Upgrades as well.
If you want to switch from Gallente Assault to Minmatar Assault and want to take full advantage of the suit bonus you no longer have any use of the Assault Rifle you skilled into, but will need the Combat Rifle instead. Thus there has to be a respec for Weaponry as well.
I can go on with reasons for a full infantry respec. The point is just that a Dropsuit Command respec won't be enough as different suits require entirely different SP investments. Good points.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9155
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Posted - 2014.02.14 22:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Joel II X wrote:\ Can I have your isk? If he quits, I think I should get his ISK if he does quit. I'm broke after buying my Templar gear, I need it more, for stuff. I don't even have Templar gear. I think I need it more. You're probably not even poor. And to DUST Fiend, I don't itnend it to be mean, but if you do quit, there's no reason for the ISK to go to waste. I said quit, not Biomass Oh well...
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9161
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Posted - 2014.02.15 01:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:i absolutely do not agree on a full respec for 1.8 but a skill tree REFUND for the drop suit and weapons tree I do agree on, the Drop Suit Upgrade tree is fine. I never got why people use the word respec and SP refund as if they don't mean the same thing; they mean the same thing. A full respec is the same thing as a full SP refund, and a partial respec is the same as a partial refund.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9192
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Posted - 2014.02.15 15:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm kind of surprised by the lack of anti-respec people.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9193
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Posted - 2014.02.15 16:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Dropsuits yes, but nothing else, save maybe sidearms. Functionally, weapons and equipment don't change. Just how effective they are at said function changes.
I agree that dropsuit skills should be respecced, as the entire function of them is changing. Many people picked and skilled their weapons and equipment/modules to compliment their dropsuits. If you were a logi and specialized into a ton of equipment, but then chose to be a heavy after a dropsuit respec, what good are those equipment skills to you?
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9196
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Posted - 2014.02.15 17:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I'll just never wrap my head around why people would be opposed to respecs even just in general. I seriously think the New Eden SP mentality is poison in an FPS environment that can't even build a stable foundation.
I for one wouldn't care in the slightest if someone could respec at will before matches, it would not effect me at all. Now don't take that as me saying we should ever have on demand or even frequent respecs in DUST, but I acknowledge that this is a video game and so long as everyone is on a level playing field, I'm happy. I fell the same way
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9238
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Posted - 2014.02.16 17:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:Alternate Insano wrote:Dear CCP,
DC Universe Online makes a lot of money charging players for respecs.
You need a lot of money.
DUST Players want respecs.
Hello? Shut your face, this one needs to be free. It's not "I got bored of my role", it's "the suit I picked for my role is now no longer suited for said role". When ever I hear "shut your face", I imagine this.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9254
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Posted - 2014.02.16 23:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hoping for a reply from CCP about it.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9260
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Posted - 2014.02.17 00:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:nothing will ever be set in stone. they will always nerf and buff stuff because people don't know when to stop complaining and just play the game. I'm not asking for a respec because things are being nerfed and buffed. I'm asking for a respec because things are being changed completely for many suits.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9279
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Posted - 2014.02.17 09:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Obodiah Garro wrote:Signed.
The logic CCP uses for their persistant skill point system has been well shot to death by this point. Our choices dont mean anything when CCP invalidates them.
I go further and call for a full respec, then ill see after the dust settles just how bad the damage is and make SP choices from that point. Vehicles just had a respec in 1.7, and nothing as of now suggests they're receiving any big changes, so I don't think a full respec is necessary, but I don't think i would hurt either I guess.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9281
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Posted - 2014.02.17 09:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Of course suit command and upgrades deserve a respect however I think weaponry should be left alone, Suit choice often goes hand in hand with weapon choice. A former HMG sentinel who chooses to skill into a scout will have no use for the HMG skills.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9316
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Posted - 2014.02.17 16:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Do it!
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
9516
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Posted - 2014.02.22 18:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zaaeed Massani wrote:inb4lockandlinkto thisthread Check the date on my thread. It was made quite a while before the spam. I didn't bump it since CCP made their own thread, but it was around when the others were being locked; if its going to be locked, I'm sure it would have happened already.
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