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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2417
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Callidus Vanus wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Infantry AV in a nutshell. Don't feel to good, does it? He wasn't talking about swarms Its the same concept. No it's not Dispute one being a turret, they are the exact same concept.
Exact same concept he says
Now lets break this down
Swarms - Light weapon, can be fitted onto a dropsuit, works by locking onto a target vehicle, fires missiles that then follow target and even around corners, does not require aim, does not require skill, fire and forget weapon, anti vehicle only
Large missile turret - Large turret, requires the use of a HAV to use, doesnt require locking on, requires aim, requires skill, can be used for anti infantry or vehicle
Intelligence is OP
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richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
735
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:Now you know how swarmers feel. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, crutch got nerfed? Yup but it's all good, for you lot now, I got a double amp sica!
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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Psychotic Shooter
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
142
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 19:33:00 -
[33] - Quote
thomas mak wrote:so, today, when I driving my PROTO missile sheild with more than 6000eHP and hardener, I saw a mit shield tank, I active my damage mod and hardener, shot at him, no miss, and you know what? I CAN'T EVEN BREAK HIS SHIELD, he turn around, use his blaster to kill my, BEFORE I FINISH RELOAD, I HAVE ALL SKILL WITH MISSILE AT FULLY TARINED, HOW IS IT POSIBLE TO LET A FULLY TARINED PLAYER SHOT THE FIRST SHOT AND GET KILL BY MIT, WHY MISSILE ARE SO UNDER POWER
You = ****** who uses missiles against a shield tank
Dust 514 Vet
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4504
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote: Dispute one being a turret, they are the exact same concept.
Exact same concept he says Now lets break this down Swarms - Light weapon, can be fitted onto a dropsuit, works by locking onto a target vehicle, fires missiles that then follow target and even around corners, does not require aim, does not require skill, fire and forget weapon, anti vehicle only Large missile turret - Large turret, requires the use of a HAV to use, doesnt require locking on, requires aim, requires skill, can be used for anti infantry or vehicle Bolded for visibility.
And there are a few things wrong with your argument here (or lack thereof):
1. Swarms require skill in the sense that every weapon in the game can easily destroy you. 2. Swarm Launchers are incapable of traveling around corners. 3. HAVs and respective turrets require no skill. Both in terms of SP and operation. 4. Aren't HAVs operate and forget as well? What's your point?
Anyways, Missile Turrets and Swarm Launchers both fire missiles, are classified as explosives, and are theoretically useless against shielded vehicles.
Please try harder, at least Spkr makes it fun. Easy, yet still very fun...
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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CLONE117
planetary retaliation organisation ACME Holding Conglomerate
646
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 19:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
in order to av a shield tank successfully.
u must first throw a flux.
in order to av an armor tank successfully.
u must first chuck 3 std av nades and finish it off with a single clip of adv swarms.
if u want to reload and have the second clip kill the tank than u use a mlt swarm. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
2428
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Posted - 2014.02.07 19:52:00 -
[36] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote: Dispute one being a turret, they are the exact same concept.
Exact same concept he says Now lets break this down Swarms - Light weapon, can be fitted onto a dropsuit, works by locking onto a target vehicle, fires missiles that then follow target and even around corners, does not require aim, does not require skill, fire and forget weapon, anti vehicle only Large missile turret - Large turret, requires the use of a HAV to use, doesnt require locking on, requires aim, requires skill, can be used for anti infantry or vehicle Bolded for visibility. And there are a few things wrong with your argument here (or lack thereof): 1. Swarms require skill in the sense that every weapon in the game can easily destroy you. 2. Swarm Launchers are incapable of traveling around corners. 3. HAVs and respective turrets require no skill. Both in terms of SP and operation. 4. Aren't HAVs operate and forget as well? What's your point? Anyways, Missile Turrets and Swarm Launchers both fire missiles, are classified as explosives, and are theoretically useless against shielded vehicles. Please try harder, at least Spkr makes it fun. Easy, yet still very fun...
1. Swarms require skill - No they dont, the weapon locks on for you and the missile find there way to the target, you just have to press the button, you dont even have to keep lock on when the missiles are in the air 2. Missiles go around corners 3. HAV wont move unless you press the correct buttons, i have to press more buttons to move my HAV than i have to when firing a swarm launcher, all turrets for vehicles require aim, they do not lock on and the projectile does not reach the target on its own unlike the swarm missiles 4. Makes no sense, maybe if i went and ate a ice cream sandwich i might then understand
Intelligence is OP
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Supernus Gigas
Star Giants
240
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Posted - 2014.02.07 20:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sorry OP, you're just bad. I exclusively run Large Missiles on my HAV alt. You just have to pick your battles, know when to attack and know when to retreat. While I do feel they under-perform, you can be successful with them if you follow my All-in-One Missile Operation Guide for VHS, only $39.99. Never get murdered again.
FIRE UP THE HEAVY MEAT GRINDER! WE'RE HAVIN' CLONE BURGERS TONIGHT, BOYS!
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Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
545
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Posted - 2014.02.07 20:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:thomas mak wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:thomas mak wrote:so, today, when I driving my PROTO missile sheild with more than 6000eHP and hardener, I saw a mit shield tank, I active my damage mod and hardener, shot at him, no miss, and you know what? I CAN'T EVEN BREAK HIS SHIELD, he turn around, use his blaster to kill my, BEFORE I FINISH RELOAD, I HAVE ALL SKILL WITH MISSILE AT FULLY TARINED, HOW IS IT POSIBLE TO LET A FULLY TARINED PLAYER SHOT THE FIRST SHOT AND GET KILL BY MIT, WHY MISSILE ARE SO UNDER POWER Let me explain your mistake from what it sounds like you was fighting a shield tank Blasters are strong vs shields but weak against armor Missles are strong vs armor but weak against shields Railguns are neutral meaning it is not strong against either shields or armor which is why it has high dmg So since he had a blaster and you had missles he won missile=6000DPS damage mod=30% extra damage I am not worge I take out nomal shield with missile Shields are naturally resistant to missile damage. Your missiles do 20% less damage to shields. 539.50 * .30 = 161.85 + 539.50 = 701.35 Damage per missile WITH a damage mod active 701.35 * .20 = 140.27 701.35 - 140.27 = 561.08 Damage you will be doing per missile to a shield tank (No hardeners) 701.35 * .60 = 420.81 701.35 - (420.81+ 140.27) 140.27 Damage per missile to a single hardened shield tank (Hardeners up) So you will only be doing 140.27 per missile, if they have just one hardeners up. 140.27 * 12 = 1683.24 So, assuming all missiles contact, you will have done a total of 1683.24 damage to a shield tank with one hardener up. You can apply this damage roughly every 10 to 13 seconds. (depending on reload skill, and adding the time it takes to empty a full volley) Shield regen kicks in before you can apply any damage to stop it. This is assuming just ONE shield hardeners. On double hardened fits, you won't even break a gunnlogis shield regen. They actually rep the damage as you are applying it! Your math's a bit off. I believe the hardener resistance is applied to the damage after the damage type resist has been applied. 701.35 Damage /missile w/ mod 561.08 To shield 561.08 - (561.08 * .6) = 224.432 561.08 - 224,432 = 336.648, or 4039 damage per volley. I can attest to this, in my single hardened dual extender Gunnlogi, a lot of my shield were taken out once my a single damage modded missile tank at point blank (though not enough to really take out my shield, but it was about 4k damage iirc). Honestly, I think OP is either a troll or an idiot.
Hmm, while I'll admit to being wrong, I've had missiles with at least one hardener on at the time, only take half shields, maybe a little more. If they did do 4039 damage do my gunnlogi, I would be a bit into my armor, as I don't mess with extenders. The only time missile have even come close to breaking my shields, is when I have a hardener down.
Though of course, I have to assume what the other person is running and I really don't know that for sure.
I assume you are saying that when calculating resistance, I need to figure the base resist from shields, then use that number for figuring hardener resistance. That would kinda make sense, and would end up giving me a larger number, but are you sure that is how they calculate it? Wish this was easily testable (IE know what my enemy is running).
336.65
224.43 *12
2693.16, that sounds about right. Yr maths a bit off
And this also assumes that EVERY MISSILE CONNECTS! I think it's rather common to miss one or 2 missiles.
Nuff Said
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3064
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 20:41:00 -
[39] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:richiesutie 2 wrote:Now you know how swarmers feel. Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, crutch got nerfed?
How is the only AV light weapon a crutch?
No.
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.07 22:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Atiim wrote: Dispute one being a turret, they are the exact same concept.
Exact same concept he says Now lets break this down Swarms - Light weapon, can be fitted onto a dropsuit, works by locking onto a target vehicle, fires missiles that then follow target and even around corners, does not require aim, does not require skill, fire and forget weapon, anti vehicle only Large missile turret - Large turret, requires the use of a HAV to use, doesnt require locking on, requires aim, requires skill, can be used for anti infantry or vehicle Bolded for visibility. And there are a few things wrong with your argument here (or lack thereof): 1. Swarms require skill in the sense that every weapon in the game can easily destroy you. 2. Swarm Launchers are incapable of traveling around corners. 3. HAVs and respective turrets require no skill. Both in terms of SP and operation. 4. Aren't HAVs operate and forget as well? What's your point? Anyways, Missile Turrets and Swarm Launchers both fire missiles, are classified as explosives, and are theoretically useless against shielded vehicles. Please try harder, at least Spkr makes it fun. Easy, yet still very fun... really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4509
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 00:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
I used the word "operate" because I lacked a better term. However, I shall clarify what I mean.
In order to do well in a tank, all you have to do is:
1. Activate Your Hardener(s) 2. Forget about everything. (Bar Railguns)
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
4457
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 00:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
thomas mak wrote:so, today, when I driving my PROTO missile sheild with more than 6000eHP and hardener, I saw a mit shield tank, I active my damage mod and hardener, shot at him, no miss, and you know what? I CAN'T EVEN BREAK HIS SHIELD, he turn around, use his blaster to kill my, BEFORE I FINISH RELOAD, I HAVE ALL SKILL WITH MISSILE AT FULLY TARINED, HOW IS IT POSIBLE TO LET A FULLY TARINED PLAYER SHOT THE FIRST SHOT AND GET KILL BY MIT, WHY MISSILE ARE SO UNDER POWER
Feel the wrath of triple hardeners Rail Sicas MUAHAHAHAHAHa....
AceOfJokers666 [ + ] AimBot / VALOR / MAG
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
170
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
I used the word "operate" because I lacked a better term. However, I shall clarify what I mean. In order to do well in a tank, all you have to do is: 1. Activate Your Hardener(s) 2. Forget about everything. (Bar Railguns) Yea your still an idiot |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4521
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Tailss Prower wrote:Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
I used the word "operate" because I lacked a better term. However, I shall clarify what I mean. In order to do well in a tank, all you have to do is: 1. Activate Your Hardener(s) 2. Forget about everything. (Bar Railguns) Yea your still an idiot Call me what you will, but the above statement is true.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
6777
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
I used the word "operate" because I lacked a better term. However, I shall clarify what I mean. In order to do well in a tank, all you have to do is: 1. Activate Your Hardener(s) 2. Forget about everything. (Bar Railguns) Yea your still an idiot Call me what you will, but the above statement is true.
I never really got missiles down.....I don't know if you can say forget about everything.....but for the most part on any double of triple Shield Hardened Tanks you basically activate and forget.....
I honestly don't understand why tankers right now like to think there is so much skill involved in tanking. That was removed during the change from 1.6 to 1.7 when we got the capacity to laughably tank every aspect of anti vehicle fire with relative ease... I say that having been on the receiving end of some very skilled AVers.....
Tanking is, yes, essentially just a matter of hitting the hardeners, then the damage modules, then duking it out until one side cowers or is destroyed......
In some cases I don't mind this aspect of vehicles.....in others I do.....game is less about the quality of the fitting of your tank and more about the capacity or length of hardener durations....
Any tips for a missiler Atiim?
"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
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Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
4521
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 08:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
I never really got missiles down.....I don't know if you can say forget about everything.....but for the most part on any double of triple Shield Hardened Tanks you basically activate and forget.....
I honestly don't understand why tankers right now like to think there is so much skill involved in tanking. That was removed during the change from 1.6 to 1.7 when we got the capacity to laughably tank every aspect of anti vehicle fire with relative ease... I say that having been on the receiving end of some very skilled AVers.....
Tanking is, yes, essentially just a matter of hitting the hardeners, then the damage modules, then duking it out until one side cowers or is destroyed......
In some cases I don't mind this aspect of vehicles.....in others I do.....game is less about the quality of the fitting of your tank and more about the capacity or length of hardener durations....
Any tips for a missiler Atiim?
Well, I don't literally mean "forget." That's why I said theoretically :P
What tank do you run? Because I seem to have a much easier time dealing with Madrugars then anything. Then again, it may be that +20% damage we have.....
As for tips, well I've only used the STD LP ones in 1.7, so I can't really give you much without stating the obvious.
1. Choose your engagements. If you see a shiny blue box, run. 2. Always aim at the weak-spot in the back. This will help alpha through a vehicle's HP. 3. If you sneak behind the target, wait until you've emptied your clip to activate your hardeners. 4. Unless your using a PRO turret with damage mods, you won't destroy a railgun head-on. 5. Skill into Railguns first. Missiles have far too incredible SP requirements for a niche that's so tiny. Missiles usually aren't worth it when compared to a Railgun.
Want to know how to make a strike-through?
[s[Example[/s]
Now go my Forum Warriors. Use this new weapon for glory!
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
6777
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 09:01:00 -
[47] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:
I never really got missiles down.....I don't know if you can say forget about everything.....but for the most part on any double of triple Shield Hardened Tanks you basically activate and forget.....
I honestly don't understand why tankers right now like to think there is so much skill involved in tanking. That was removed during the change from 1.6 to 1.7 when we got the capacity to laughably tank every aspect of anti vehicle fire with relative ease... I say that having been on the receiving end of some very skilled AVers.....
Tanking is, yes, essentially just a matter of hitting the hardeners, then the damage modules, then duking it out until one side cowers or is destroyed......
In some cases I don't mind this aspect of vehicles.....in others I do.....game is less about the quality of the fitting of your tank and more about the capacity or length of hardener durations....
Any tips for a missiler Atiim?
Well, I don't literally mean "forget." That's why I said theoretically :P What tank do you run? Because I seem to have a much easier time dealing with Madrugars then anything. Then again, it may be that +20% damage we have..... As for tips, well I've only used the STD LP ones in 1.7, so I can't really give you much without stating the obvious. 1. Choose your engagements. If you see a shiny blue box, run. 2. Always aim at the weak-spot in the back. This will help alpha through a vehicle's HP. 3. If you sneak behind the target, wait until you've emptied your clip to activate your hardeners. 4. Unless your using a PRO turret with damage mods, you won't destroy a railgun head-on. 5. Skill into Railguns first. Missiles have far too incredible SP requirements for a niche that's so tiny. Missiles usually aren't worth it when compared to a Railgun.
Hmmm I was expecting more specific missile tips.....I have ADV rails and proto blasters and again have been tanking more than long enough to pick up the core aspects on tanking....even if recently I haven't really bothered keeping to those rules.....
I'm talking Missile specifics, fitting combinations, how to mitigate the punishingly slow reload speed, hit infantry, possibly make best use of my 12 missile capacity to optimise how I make use of the turrets...positioning, range, etc.
"Just know that though our enemies may only #YOLO, through God's grace we can #YOLF at his side." - Disciple of Kesha
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
172
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:Atiim wrote:Tailss Prower wrote:really operate and forget well dam theres no need to even bother that alone makes you an idiot
I used the word "operate" because I lacked a better term. However, I shall clarify what I mean. In order to do well in a tank, all you have to do is: 1. Activate Your Hardener(s) 2. Forget about everything. (Bar Railguns) Yea your still an idiot Call me what you will, but the above statement is true. I never really got missiles down.....I don't know if you can say forget about everything.....but for the most part on any double of triple Shield Hardened Tanks you basically activate and forget..... I honestly don't understand why tankers right now like to think there is so much skill involved in tanking. That was removed during the change from 1.6 to 1.7 when we got the capacity to laughably tank every aspect of anti vehicle fire with relative ease... I say that having been on the receiving end of some very skilled AVers..... Tanking is, yes, essentially just a matter of hitting the hardeners, then the damage modules, then duking it out until one side cowers or is destroyed...... In some cases I don't mind this aspect of vehicles.....in others I do.....game is less about the quality of the fitting of your tank and more about the capacity or length of hardener durations.... Any tips for a missiler Atiim? I mean't my tank not these broken and abused tanks when i said what i said i was talking about my tank which is how a tank should have been if players wasn't able to abuse dmg mods and hardners
I only use 1 hardner anymore and im asking for death and if i was to use a dmg mod i'd only ever use 1 and you know what
Even with these choice limitations i still win vs these duel hardner and dmg mod tanks 90#
Ok done ranting but really i was talking from my view point and not that of the noob tankers |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1173
|
Posted - 2014.02.08 11:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Missiles don't work as well against shields. Shields have better resists. However, it's the rail turret that is broken. Missiles should not have to worry about a rail in CQ but as is now they do. Blasters are no worry as long as hardeners are up.
Missiles tear up armor though. You do have to get more than one volley on a well hardened and repped armor tank. But, you have to dance with them.
That's the biggest thing that tank changes made GÇô you have to do the texas two step in order to take out a tank while avoiding their shots.
If it's a shield rank with hardener on, drive over/under them and keep going. If they have a rail, no matter the tank drive over/under and if hardened shield keep going and come back around when hardener is down. If armor with rail, go over and turn to fire or roll under and fire. Another one saying a long-range high-damage turret is broken. The good tankers are dangerous with rails in CQC.
Rails were fine the way they were. It makes no sense for them to be as good at CQ. There is a reason you see every joe and his mother running a mil rail now. High damage has nothing to do with CQ efficiency. If the rail is going to be a one stop shop why even have anything else in the game? Why even have missiles?
Rails the way they were vs. missiles now creates a role for each and defines the Caldari the way they are supposed to be. Missiles could benefit from longer range too but then you have the same overlap. It's bad enough you have to get point blank to guarantee a kill.
You fire a rail turret in CQ in EVE it doesn't hit sh*t. It can't track fast enough and it's RoF can't keep up. The Caldari defined.
I tell ya, the fanboi mentality is getting bad. Any change made that benefits a certain player and they defend it despite lore, variety or prior mechanics.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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Tailss Prower
501ST JFW StrikerZ Unit
173
|
Posted - 2014.02.09 05:58:00 -
[50] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Missiles don't work as well against shields. Shields have better resists. However, it's the rail turret that is broken. Missiles should not have to worry about a rail in CQ but as is now they do. Blasters are no worry as long as hardeners are up.
Missiles tear up armor though. You do have to get more than one volley on a well hardened and repped armor tank. But, you have to dance with them.
That's the biggest thing that tank changes made GÇô you have to do the texas two step in order to take out a tank while avoiding their shots.
If it's a shield rank with hardener on, drive over/under them and keep going. If they have a rail, no matter the tank drive over/under and if hardened shield keep going and come back around when hardener is down. If armor with rail, go over and turn to fire or roll under and fire. Another one saying a long-range high-damage turret is broken. The good tankers are dangerous with rails in CQC. Rails were fine the way they were. It makes no sense for them to be as good at CQ. There is a reason you see every joe and his mother running a mil rail now. High damage has nothing to do with CQ efficiency. If the rail is going to be a one stop shop why even have anything else in the game? Why even have missiles? Rails the way they were vs. missiles now creates a role for each and defines the Caldari the way they are supposed to be. Missiles could benefit from longer range too but then you have the same overlap. It's bad enough you have to get point blank to guarantee a kill. You fire a rail turret in CQ in EVE it doesn't hit sh*t. It can't track fast enough and it's RoF can't keep up. The Caldari defined. I tell ya, the fanboi mentality is getting bad. Any change made that benefits a certain player and they defend it despite lore, variety or prior mechanics. Let me clarify the difference between 1.6 railguns to 1.7 railguns
That was damge it had alittle more damge than they do now also more from skills. I used railguns in cqc last build and this build and guess what it didn't changed hell the railguns were the only thing that was untouched all they lost was the damge you got from skills it has a very small boost to turret turn speed and thats only if you lvl the proficiency skill that and they fixed the bugged splash damge hit detection it wasn't the railgun that was changed it was everything else
Now eve is entirely different and do you know why because the aiming system is automatic you don't manually aim you tell it to lock on and to fire to balance it somewhat they gave it a hit% on dust its all manual so those who can aim will hit the target so next time you bring eve's mechanics into a conversation think about it and lore wise railguns had 2nd most range only beaten by missles but that what i've heard |
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